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Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:36 PM

Worst slogan ever - "Defund the Police"

Defund the Police” is a poorly worded slogan. When people hear it they immediately think you want to get rid of all police. Then you have to go into a lengthy explanation of what it actually means. Giving people the wrong first impression and then trying to persuade them about what you really meant is not a winning strategy.

For a slogan to be effective it has to be very simple, clear, and optimistic. For example, consider these presidential campaign slogans;
A Time For Greatness
Morning in America
"Kinder, Gentler Nation"
"Change We Can Believe In"

I suggest replacing “Defund the Police” with “Reinvent the Police.” This conveys a message of positive change, not a scary image of society without law enforcement.

73 replies, 2794 views

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Arrow 73 replies Author Time Post
Reply Worst slogan ever - "Defund the Police" (Original post)
jg10003 Jun 2020 OP
tman Jun 2020 #1
MacKasey Jun 2020 #2
raging moderate Jun 2020 #4
Odoreida Jun 2020 #17
progressoid Jun 2020 #25
Guy Whitey Corngood Jun 2020 #10
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #3
Thomas Hurt Jun 2020 #5
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #9
empedocles Jun 2020 #11
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #14
LanternWaste Jun 2020 #23
jg10003 Jun 2020 #6
brush Jun 2020 #8
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #12
brush Jun 2020 #18
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #19
brush Jun 2020 #22
coti Jun 2020 #27
intheflow Jun 2020 #35
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #41
AdamGG Jun 2020 #58
peggysue2 Jun 2020 #69
CrispyQ Jun 2020 #7
empedocles Jun 2020 #13
marmar Jun 2020 #36
empedocles Jun 2020 #43
gratuitous Jun 2020 #15
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #31
tonedevil Jun 2020 #45
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #47
Hav Jun 2020 #38
WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2020 #16
mzmolly Jun 2020 #21
LanternWaste Jun 2020 #20
grantcart Jun 2020 #24
budkin Jun 2020 #26
jg10003 Jun 2020 #28
budkin Jun 2020 #29
intheflow Jun 2020 #37
SoonerPride Jun 2020 #42
Bettie Jun 2020 #44
TheCowsCameHome Jun 2020 #30
tenderfoot Jun 2020 #32
intheflow Jun 2020 #39
brokephibroke Jun 2020 #33
R B Garr Jun 2020 #34
The Magistrate Jun 2020 #40
blitzen Jun 2020 #46
alwaysinasnit Jun 2020 #48
peoli Jun 2020 #49
Locrian Jun 2020 #70
DENVERPOPS Jun 2020 #50
Raven123 Jun 2020 #51
hay rick Jun 2020 #60
Grokenstein Jun 2020 #52
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #67
hay rick Jun 2020 #53
Layzeebeaver Jun 2020 #54
BlueIdaho Jun 2020 #55
Dopers_Greed Jun 2020 #56
Heartstrings Jun 2020 #57
Dopers_Greed Jun 2020 #59
BrightKnight Jun 2020 #61
TomVilmer Jun 2020 #62
BrightKnight Jun 2020 #63
LiberalLovinLug Jun 2020 #64
obamanut2012 Jun 2020 #65
melman Jun 2020 #66
aidbo Jun 2020 #68
OverBurn Jun 2020 #71
logosoco Jun 2020 #72
Aussie105 Jun 2020 #73

Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:38 PM

1. Agree

"Police the Police"

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:38 PM

2. Fund Peace Officers

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Response to MacKasey (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:40 PM

4. YES! PEACE OFFICERS!

That is what they should be! Re-invent them!

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Response to raging moderate (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:59 PM

17. So a name change? Better be more than that.

FWIW, the term "peace officer" already exists in law meaning a police officer.

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Response to Odoreida (Reply #17)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:17 PM

25. Unfortunately, they haven't lived up to that name lately.

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Response to MacKasey (Reply #2)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:47 PM

10. Ooh, I like.... nt

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:40 PM

3. More hand wringing over messaging instead of fixing police violence

Thanks for your concern.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:42 PM

5. You won't get what you want if concede the narrative out of the gate.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:47 PM

9. We won't get what we want if we protest peacefully. Or riot.

Or tinker at the edges.

How many times have we been told “protest is fine, but you should protest THIS way, that we approve of?”

And

Nothing

Ever


Changes.



Stop trying to tell activists what makes YOU comfortable.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:50 PM

11. So OBVIOUS!

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Response to empedocles (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:53 PM

14. No. It is demeaning and paternalistic

Stop.

White people always tell black folk which method protests they approve of and what messages are too threatening.

It gets old.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:08 PM

23. Also, you won't get what you want if you sanctimoniously lecture others

without at least supporting the initial premise (i.e., this alleged message is being fomented and forwarded by those creating branding and messaging for progressives).

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:45 PM

6. To fix a problem you need popular support.

In politics the group with the best message usually wins, even if their ideas are wrong.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:46 PM

8. The OP is correct. Why give repugs the ammo that Dems...

want to get rid of police? That's nothing but red meat for winger votes. We want to win the election not fire up right wingers to turn out.

Re-organize the police, or de-escalate the police, or police the police is more like it.

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Response to brush (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:51 PM

12. It doesn't matter.

Colin Kaepernick protested PEACEFULLY and was called a son of a bitch by the president and blackballed from his employment.

Riots don’t work
Peacefully thoughtful protests don’t work

Nothing ever changes
And white people constantly whitesplain to people of color how they need to protest.

Stop.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:01 PM

18. Ok, miss pessimist. Why don't you just say trump will win in Nov...

if nothing works? And why not say these two weeks of demonstrations haven't worked to wake up the nation's consciousness to police violence.

I don't have time for negative, pessimist debbie downers.

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Response to brush (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:04 PM

19. I'm saying DEFUND THE POLICE are the words of black activists

And whites have a long tradition of telling blacks how to protest and what they should and shouldn’t say or do because “this message upsets ME.”

Well maybe just once we should let the activists set the agenda and support them.

Stop being paternalistic.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:07 PM

22. Wrong again. I'm black and "defund the police" is possibly the...

the dumbest messaging ever. I don't care who came up with it. It's the wrong wording.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #19)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:22 PM

27. Black activitists need to work together with their non-black allies to get this done

Even though- apparently- ALL black people support the idea of defunding the police (YOUR idea- though I don't think it's at all true), the vast majority of people think it's an endorsement of anarchy, and they need to speak up so that a consensus and real difference can be made.

The "defund the police" marketing sounds like it came from a person who never should have been entrusted with the responsibility of such a huge figurative voice- someone who has not given genuine thought to what they are saying. I STILL don't believe that it actually came from someone on our side. Most people wouldn't feel safe or comfortable with the idea of just getting rid of police forces. We need government-funded agencies to enforce our laws.

But those agencies also need to follow the law, themselves, and understand they are there to serve the people they interact with. It's likely that police agencies' emphases on full, immediate compliance needs to be drawn way back.

I also agree that we need to seriously strengthen other agencies that are better equipped to deal with so many of our social problems that the police are often sent to deal with now. That is a HUGE part of the problem we are seeing with police agencies- they are a hammer, and most of the problems we have in our society AREN'T nails.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:44 PM

35. Yeah, the pearls clutching over this is very telling.

Defund the Police isn't the same as Unfund the Police or Abolish the Police. It just means we need to start funding them like we fund schools, libraries, and public health, and reallocate that money to said schools, libraries, and public health services. Oh! We have a problem? Let's talk about how we talk about it, not the actual fucking problem!

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Response to intheflow (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:05 PM

41. It's the same message the RIGHT WING says about guns

“Now is not the time to talk about gun control”
“Don’t use this language to protest it isn’t helpful”

Shutting down the conversation before it starts by positing that the way it is talked about upsets THEM

“Oh your language upsets ME, so you need to change your message and then we can talk”

How about no, we talk NOW about the subject at hand, which is police keep killing black folks?

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:36 PM

58. It's not hand wringing - the Rethugs renamed the "estate tax" the "death tax"

and it polled like 20 percent higher. You have to sell the message to pass any policy and the Rethugs have been more effective at the Frank Luntz style branding.

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Response to SoonerPride (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:57 PM

69. It's not a matter of wringing hands

It's all about the message, the branding having the best shot of aiding the necessary change itself.

Why start off with a slogan that's riddled with opportunity for the haters, the authoritarians to use against the movement? The public is poised for this change, a complete redesign of our police force, about 'redefining/reinventing' the whole concept of public safety. The polls are indicative of this readiness to rethink and change on all these reform/reinventing issues of complete restructuring, thorough vetting of officers regardless of rank, reduction in the power of police unions, demilitarization, stripping away officers' blanket immunity, etc.

The message should enhance that, not hand the opposition a weapon to stall everything and anything. They've already started.

It's why Reinventing the Police is, indeed, the better message.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:46 PM

7. Totally agree.

Our side has never been good at messaging. It's like we don't believe in marketing.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #7)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:51 PM

13. 'Activists' anger/arrogance

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Response to empedocles (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:46 PM

36. I agree that defunding is poor terminology, but 'activists' have every right to be angry.

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Response to marmar (Reply #36)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:21 PM

43. I agree with the right to be angry, but the 'poor terminology' has disastrous

implications in many ways.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:53 PM

15. Ah, you don't like that slogan

But now that we have your attention at long last over the question of police brutality and other attendant issues, what do you think is wrong or should be fixed with our law enforcement system besides the slogan "defund the police"? Anything? Because doing nothing hasn't seemed to stop police from killing citizens in the streets.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:38 PM

31. That conversation is not going to happen with the other side.

In a presidential election year, we don't have the luxury of using provocative slogans for the purpose of generating internal policy discussions.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:36 PM

45. It doesn't even happen on our side. /nt

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #45)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:39 PM

47. There's still hope there -

But that is an even stronger reason to choose our words carefully. Don't wave a red flag at a bull, especially if there's nothing to be gained by it.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:49 PM

38. There is no doubt that a major reform

and a better independent oversight process is needed. Better training with the aim to actually help as the focus and a no tolerance policy: One case of excessive force and you are out. You don't stop another cop or speak up when he kicks the shit out of someone or even worse, you are out.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 05:55 PM

16. It seems to have worked on the Minneapolis City Council.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #16)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:07 PM

21. Not in reality.

They plan to essentially restructure and utilize the Hennepin County Sheriff's office for more serious interventions. But now we get to explain that in an election year, which is super.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:05 PM

20. No one of note is using that slogan. In fact, the only people I see using it consistently...

...are concern trolls and The-Sky-Is-Falling brigade.

However, it begs the question (as you did in fact, make a premise lacking evidence to support it) as to who you allege of note or in a prominent leadership position is using 'Defund the Police' as a consistent message.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:09 PM

24. Yes we can

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:20 PM

26. It should be REBOOT THE POLICE

But public sentiment for reform is strong, despite the "defund" messaging out there.

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Response to budkin (Reply #26)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:24 PM

28. True, "reform the police" speaks to public sentiment. "defund the police" scares people.

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Response to jg10003 (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:28 PM

29. I heard the "defund" language was amplified by Russian bots on twitter

Because it causes such division.

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Response to jg10003 (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:48 PM

37. Police reforms have not come through.

Usually it just results in a sensitivity training and more money thrown at them. Because of this, many BIPOC people would not support or trust anything called "Reform the Police." The pushback against this phrase is whiteness protecting itself instead of confronting the problem.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #37)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:06 PM

42. Exactly! 💯

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Response to jg10003 (Reply #28)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:32 PM

44. The only people it scares are those who

do not have the ability to think...so see nuance.

Those people were never going to vote for anyone but Trump anyway.

They are the "but ALL lives matter" brigade.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:37 PM

30. Dump that expression. Now.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:40 PM

32. defund is only okay when it involves the post office, amtrak, education, infrastructure, etc.

eom

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Response to tenderfoot (Reply #32)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:50 PM

39. Those are called tax cuts!






/sarcasm.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:40 PM

33. I agree and the objective will be refined

The issue is MAGAts will not participate or listen as we debate the issue and transform into policy. They will meme and and use the slogan to emotionally manipulate their base.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:43 PM

34. Agreed! Trump is already saying "disband" to distort.

What about Three Strikes — for cops...?

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:50 PM

40. 'Police The Police!' Is the Best Choice, Sir

Chants well, cannot be readily distorted, and accurately sums up the feelings of the great bulk of people in the street, and their home-bound supporters.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:36 PM

46. Apples and Oranges. It's not Biden's slogan. Your examples are pres. campaign slogans...

It's not even close to being Biden's slogan.

But I agree, it's a stupid phrase because lots of people are too lazy to think about anything that needs to be explained. And "Reinvent the Police" is a good phrase.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:44 PM

49. All the slogans you posted are Propaganda and mean nothing

They are pure fluff and feel good words that have absolutely no substance

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Response to peoli (Reply #49)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 05:39 PM

70. beat me to it....

All of these are completely worthless nothings.

“A Time For Greatness”
“Morning in America”
"Kinder, Gentler Nation"
"Change We Can Believe In"

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:55 PM

50. Realistically

no matter what we try to do, it will make zero difference if Trump, Barr, RepubliCON Senators etc
stay in office.........It's that simple folks.

Trump has repeatedly told cops to be MORE abusive.......on camera, no less.......

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:15 PM

51. I agree 100%. "Defund the police" is a messaging gift to the GOP.

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Response to Raven123 (Reply #51)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 09:05 PM

60. Agree.

Perfect gateway to move the conversation from racial injustice and police brutality to "antifa" and lawless looting.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:19 PM

52. "The Police Must Serve The Public."

"Defund," "reinvent," "change"--these are words that terrify a populace that has been bottle-fed fear from birth by FOXHenhouse and Rush Limpballs and the rest of the rightwank media. What you need, what will succeed, is a simple positive mission statement, not some wish to vaguely recreate something half the nation still believes isn't broken into the Workers' Paradise. Otherwise, the fearmongers will gin up a pushback that will only make things worse.

Mobster goons--and let's not be coy, cops today are a covert organized-crime set-up--exist to defend a system of corruption. That's what you want to change; everything else follows. The police unions have to be busted for the rackets they are, and the public needs to have a say in their future leadership, because the police must serve the public. Pigs who pose a threat to the public need to jailed or fired and banned from public service in all fifty states, because the police must serve the public. The police cannot have at-whim access to military gear because the police must serve the public.

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Response to Grokenstein (Reply #52)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:41 PM

67. I agree defund the police is not an effective slogan - and may even be harmful.

But "the Police Must Serve the Public" is so innocuous as to be ineffective.

Until very recently, the majority of white Americans (probably the majority of Americans) would have responded, "they already are." It feeds into the one bad apple rhetoric.

A slogan needs to motivate support for change. Your suggestion lulls the "half the nation {that} still believes t isn't broken" into complacency because they already believe it does.

Reinvent the police acknowledges there are issues - which far more Americans are willing to admit this week than 3 weeks ago. It calls for change, without inherently suggesting tossing the baby out with the bathwater (without offering a solution).

It's a good starting point that hits the right balance between scaring people to death and acknlowedging the problems + pointing a direction to move.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:24 PM

53. Suggest replacing "Defund the Police" with "Let Looters Loot."

"Defund the Police" mimics the inflammatory language of "Defund Planned Parenthood." It's a way to push buttons, not a constructive way to encourage a serious reevaluation of priorities.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:31 PM

54. Enable neighbourhood managed security

That should cover it.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:32 PM

55. We need to promote Public Safety

Which balances trained personnel to handle domestic violence, the homeless, and those with mental illness while supporting a smaller force dedicated to apprehending criminals and placing them in protective custody.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:33 PM

56. The slogan is objectively bad...whatever the definition of "defund" is

Bad messaging means the difference between the police actually being "defunded", or having the powers that be double down on them.

If you have to explain your slogan, then you've lost.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:34 PM

57. "Restructure with more enhanced social service programs" would be my suggestion......nt

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:36 PM

59. So many other words that could be used

Reform the Police
Revise the Police
Rehabilitate the Police

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 10:43 PM

61. Why are Police not monitored like IT help desk or 911 operators?

I worked help desk and every call was recorded. Every thing I did on my computer was recorded. Every interaction had a feedback form. A percentage of my calls were evaluated. The results were recorded and affected my job. There was also coaching and consequences for low scores.


Fully monitored and accountable policing

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 10:47 PM

62. Protest Etiquette for White Folks...

These strict recommendations did not do well in Denmark:




"Stop saying things needs to be peaceful and calm for you to get involved"... That has been my claim to any and all demonstrations I have ever supported or arranged. If some group want non peaceful actions, I am against it - always and actively.

And to restrict an invitation to a "public" demonstrations with so many orders, is not how we normally play in Denmark - nobody likes that. In a few days the BLM organizers in Denmark has lost most of their goodwill, though most of Denmark still understands and support the rightful anger.

Today the articles is about BLM Denmark trash-talking Amnesty International DK, who once again was preparing an anti racism demonstration - but was straight ordered by BLM to stop it, since only BLM should be in front now

BTW - the main police problem in Denmark is not harassment of black people, but the harassment of brown people. Our immigrants from the Middle East are the ones feeling it mostly. And not to reach out to them, when this Danish BLM group is trying to make it a Danish problem, is... let's say strangely unpolite.

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Response to TomVilmer (Reply #62)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 10:55 PM

63. It is not the same but white people fear police too.

Everyone wants every interaction to be professional and accountable.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:51 PM

64. I agree. Who decides these things?





Goes for "Open Borders!" as well

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 12:55 PM

65. concern noted

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:29 PM

66. It's actually good

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:47 PM

68. Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 06:36 PM

71. Reform The Police!

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Wed Jun 10, 2020, 07:01 PM

72. I would like to see a broader term, something along the lines of

restructure the system. Right behind the issue of police abuse is the prison system. How did it ever come to be a thing were there was profit involved? When states have contracts with these prison corporations they have to fulfill them and that means arrests and arrests serious enough (or MADE serious enough) to involve prison time. I think we need alternative sentencing for many, if not most, cases. People ending up with prison sentences for petty type things costs the taxpayers a lot of money that could be put to better use.

I understand that the word "defund" does not mean stop paying for community police but i am sure trump and his followers are not hearing that.

Republicans do seem to understand fluffy statements and it would be great to come up with one to get them (maybe some of them) to get it.

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Response to jg10003 (Original post)

Thu Jun 11, 2020, 12:18 AM

73. Most police departments seem to be awash with money that needs spending.

But is a lot of that money misdirected?

Train your recruits as though they are going to go into a warzone.
Dress them like they are going into a war zone.
Equip them with weapons like they are going into a war zone.

Send them to confront unarmed protestors, and no surprise, they will turn it into a war zone.
They have the mind set, the equipment, don't know different.

When you can't tell the difference between a policeman and a warzone soldier, you know you have a problem.

Would they act differently if they were trained differently? Didn't have the body armor? The batons, the rubber bullets, the pepper balls?

Without a doubt.

Don't defund, but redirect their funding. And trim it back a lot.

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