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no_hypocrisy

(45,771 posts)
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:55 AM Jun 2020

The Unacknowledged Religious War

It became clear to me after Trump posing with a Bible (allegedly) in front of St. John's Church on Monday and the strong pushback from non-evangelical Christian churches: There is a war for dominance (I know, I know) by the Evangelicals for political primacy over the non-evangelical Christians. The latter has enjoyed recognition and non-harassment by the U.S. government for the most part since the founding of this nation and the codification of the Constitution. Evangelicals could have enjoyed the same except it wasn't enough for them. They want to THEIR version of Christianity to become part of federal and state statutes, to become case law in federal and state courts, and of course, to receive federal and state tax dollars in addition to their parishioners' tithings. And to do that, they have to have someone like Trump recognize their views as legitimate and to disenfranchise mainline Christianity when it protests.

There are regular protests by Christian groups like Interfaith Alliance. But no calls to neutralize the raw power grab by Evangelicals. Truth told, I'm uncertain whether mainline Christianity recognizes that it's under attack. Already there is a schism in the Methodist Church, whereby it appears that it is going to split in half over the issue of allowing gay ministers to administer over their churches.

Will non-evangelical Christian churches remain neutral and/or independent if there is a second Trump term?

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C_U_L8R

(44,891 posts)
1. Maybe it should be religion against 'religion'
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 09:59 AM
Jun 2020

I don't know exactly what religion rightwingers profess to be but it sure is twisted. And it's not Christianity.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,450 posts)
2. I remember
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:07 AM
Jun 2020

When I was messed up in the assemblies of god cult
They would have "prayer meetings" at each other's houses like 3 times a week. In those meetings which requires an invitation to go to, they discussed tactics,like how to skirt laws,how to convince people ect.

It was sickening.

I could never convince others to go to that church
Imagining myself as some douche on a public square yelling with a megaphone or handing out tracts was something even when I was messed up in the cult
I could not bring myself to do. I know how people enjoying themselves get annoyed and disgusted and pissed rightfully so,when some christian idiot tries to suck all the air out of the area yelling at people. To get another jewel in his crown in heaven.

Ligyron

(7,592 posts)
3. Just like the majority thought Trump would not, could not get elected ...
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:10 AM
Jun 2020

... mainline Christianity will realize too late the awful truth.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,276 posts)
4. It isn't a theological war at all. The right-wing evangelicals use religion
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:11 AM
Jun 2020

entirely for political purposes. You hardly ever see them arguing with "mainstream" Christians about interpretations of scripture or whether transubstantiation occurs at Communion or that sort of thing. Their primary goals are social, to be achieved by political domination. Jesus never said a word about abortion or homosexuality, for example. But the fundies are social conservatives whose objections to those and other things (e.g., women in power, racial equality) arise more from their cultural and demographic circumstances than from their religious beliefs. The conservative evangelicals are or at least were mostly, though not entirely, southern, rural, and culturally isolated. They have imposed their culture on their theology at least as much as their theology affects their culture. They use religion to justify their cultural and political positions even though there's no scriptural basis for it. It's all about political power.

2naSalit

(86,048 posts)
7. Exactly.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:23 AM
Jun 2020

The one fundie bunch I encountered in my family's great religion wars was the New England Fundamentalist Baptists. Gives me a headache just remembering what they are called. I won't go into details, they seemed to me, far worse than the southerners I encountered then and later in life. The family wars taught me how shallow religious culture can be and sent me on a path of religion free existence which has served me well.

jaxexpat

(6,701 posts)
5. Mainstream denominations have been losing followers steadily for decades.
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:12 AM
Jun 2020

Evangelicals, mostly people who want god to be santa claus, are easily lead but not steadfast. When the thrill of participation in a "righteous cause" diminishes, at the first shot of adversity, they'll be out hunting for leaders who don't ask so much effort from them.
They may even forget how to vote.

chia

(2,235 posts)
6. Moral Majority contemporized it, and the intertwining of conservative/Republican political goals
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 10:16 AM
Jun 2020

for decades now culminated in Trump. I guess in hindsight, this was inevitable, that someone would capitalize on their hunger for another King David. They see it as a righteous war, and in many cases, an end times, 'come Lord Jesus' apocalyptic culmination. They contextualize all of society and culture in the idea of warfare, moving easily between the "battle spaces," you might say, of spiritual combat, culture war, and some bizarre kind of (in their minds) God-inspired Trump militia mentality.

bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
9. Talk2action blog had many exposes of a group that worked to take over denominations
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:04 PM
Jun 2020

They no longer post there . Much of blog may still be readable

Frank Clarkson and Bob Boston often posted there

There were many posts about Dominionists, the New Apostolic Reformation---when political and church leaders were oblivious or denied the movements existed

The blog had extensive analysis of Sarah Palin's ties to these movements

no_hypocrisy

(45,771 posts)
10. Let me put it like this: with Steve Bannon and Brett Cavanaugh running around,
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:12 PM
Jun 2020

Pope Francis better watch his back. He's pissing off a certain segment of Catholics with his calls for loving the poor and peaceful coexistence.

bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
13. William lindsay has written much on US RW Catholics war vs Pope Francis
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 01:51 PM
Jun 2020

His blog is bilgrimage.blogspot.com

He was raised in SoBaptist church in Arkansas, became Catholic as a young man and then later became a RC theologian.

He lives in LittleRock with his husband.

His last several posts have bern on the protests and on race in US

A very informative blog

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Good subject! Dominionism and evangelism have been spreading
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 12:34 PM
Jun 2020

alarmingly into and strongly influencing most Christian denominations in America.

Including into Catholicism, which is entrenched and powerful in places that provide a fine complement to the limitations of relatively less educated and well positioned evangelical sects, Southern Baptists for instance.

And where evangelicalism hasn't managed to infiltrate, it's retarded but often fanatically committed cousin conservative fundamentalism may have, or already be intrinsic to. There are strong theological differences between evangelicals and Mormons, for instance, but fundamentalism is intrinsic to Mormonism. Romney is a fundamentalist Mormon, for instance, with strong characteristics in common with fundamentalists of other churches.

Mike Pence is an evangelical Catholic. Pompeo is an evangelical Christian, Bill Barre a Christian nationalist, the list of infiltration of RW extremist religion goes on and on and one.

Five of our SCOTUS justices are Catholic (one raised and supposedly converted, but no big difference). All but one are very strong conservatives who represent the alliance of necessity between the ambitions and political power of hard-core evangelical conservatives and the access to judicial power of hard-core Catholic conservatives.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. Can't know for sure or say what membership would mean
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:08 PM
Jun 2020

for these extremely powerful people. Not the same as it would for the typical member, I'm sure.

We know for sure the court is being stacked with unprincipled political agents similar to those who've been appointed and elected to high nonjudicial positions. All are claiming originalist and textualist beliefs to serve as excuses for a RW judicial revolution. They're there to reinterpret and overset the liberal, progressive government ideology established by our founding fathers and codified in over two centuries of judicial rulings. Including corrupting the meaning of "an establishment of religion" to empower it.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
16. Evangelical Christian churches are businesses and nothing more....
Thu Jun 4, 2020, 02:15 PM
Jun 2020

and should be taxed as such. Most are religion's equivalent to the big-box store. Along with big box retail stores and social media, they have sucked the very life and public charity out of old-fashioned small communities where most people of all political stripes were friends back in the day.


But, I'm very old-fashioned......

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