Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

turbinetree

(24,632 posts)
Thu May 14, 2020, 10:46 AM May 2020

GOP candidate wants kids back in school just like in the 'pre vaccine era'




By Dan Desai Martin -May 13, 2020 5:33 PM

Former Rep. Claudia Tenney is demanding that schools reopen in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic.

A Republican congressional candidate has suggested that children go back to school during the coronavirus pandemic based on the fact that children attended school before vaccines were invented.

"Children have a greater ability to develop immunities to this virus based on the evidence we have so far," Claudia Tenney, a former member of Congress who is running for the seat she held in New York's 22nd Congressional District, tweeted on Tuesday. "A cautious approach to returning to school is essential. Children attended school in the pre vaccine era for over a century."

Tenney's suggestion ignores data on mortality rates prior to the invention of vaccines and on the effectiveness of vaccines, as well as warnings from the nation's top infectious disease expert.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notes, with regard to the incidence of various infectious diseases before vaccines were available, that hundreds died from measles every year; 15,000 Americans died of diphtheria in 1921 alone; and in 1964-1965, 2,000 babies died of rubella during an epidemic that infected 12.5 million people in the United States.

https://americanindependent.com/claudia-tenney-coronavirus-children-schools-vaccines-gop-congress-covid-19/

Some in the media should be demanding and asking if this .......... ( fill in the blank) has any medical records that show she did not get vaccines when she had to go into public school or private one for that matter.............to be able to protect the other children that she was running around with.................
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
GOP candidate wants kids back in school just like in the 'pre vaccine era' (Original Post) turbinetree May 2020 OP
And what of the teachers and other school staff? SoonerPride May 2020 #1
Thank you! I work in a school. Schools are not made for physical distancing. OrlandoDem2 May 2020 #2
The petri-dish quality of schools is exactly why The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #4
Besides, kids get cv-19, too, and can suffer terrible consequences & even death. tblue37 May 2020 #11
Yes. Please contact your school board, state legislators, and governor about safety for ALL. OrlandoDem2 May 2020 #14
Living is like playing Russian Roulette with your life every day, Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #15
Noted That On Another Thread ProfessorGAC May 2020 #20
There's a about a 4% chance of death if you are in the older population, Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #27
You Going To Take The Risk? ProfessorGAC May 2020 #47
Does Your Analysis Include... ProfessorGAC May 2020 #48
"Children attended school in the pre vaccine era for over a century." The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #3
True, Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #16
If one of those dead kids was yours, would you still be OK with the fact The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #22
Again Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #38
This new inflammation issue with children who had Covid-19 dawg day May 2020 #5
What about the issue of the kids not getting an education? Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #8
A dead child doesn't get an education either. nt crickets May 2020 #18
Right, children die sometimes Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #21
If your kid died would you feel differently, or The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #23
You can't make decisions for large amounts of people in such a personal way Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #33
Tell that to the parents of a child who died of covid-19 or Kawasaki's syndrome The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #36
I don't think they closed all the schools all over the country Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #39
Ummm ... that's not a classroom. Don't let the orderly rows fool you. eppur_se_muova May 2020 #6
My mother was a nurse in those days. She told us about the iron lungs The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #29
only 2-3% of them would die keithbvadu2 May 2020 #7
And I'm betting he considers himself in the "Right To Life" crowd. n/t Liberal In Texas May 2020 #24
I am astounded at the number of ghouls who publicly announce crickets May 2020 #9
It is not sacrificing children Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #10
What I'm getting from these politicians is that crickets May 2020 #17
Sure, so the kids should just go without an education indefinitely then. Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #19
The odds might be good that they won't die, but the odds aren't so good The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #28
Grandparents pretty much don't have to see the kids in most families Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #31
I'm here proudly and completely bluestarone May 2020 #34
Most families? In many, many families, especially immigrants and low-income people, The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #35
Yeah, sometimes Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #43
jfc obamanut2012 May 2020 #25
Now that's a pose straight from some Volk und Vaterland propaganda poster struggle4progress May 2020 #12
some in this thread feel the same way obamanut2012 May 2020 #26
For those who feel that way, I'd ask them whether they'd sacrifice their own kid The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #32
This. This right here. Thank you. crickets May 2020 #40
Yeah, you don't have kids Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #42
What are you saying? crickets May 2020 #45
That lottery has already been happening every day of our lives Zing Zing Zingbah May 2020 #41
So why are we even bothering with doctors or hospitals or medicines at all? The Velveteen Ocelot May 2020 #46
the small pox vaccine dates to the 1700's dsc May 2020 #13
This vile monster needs to spend some time working at Boston Children's Hospital. GoCubsGo May 2020 #30
Is this the "Again" they were talking about in MAGA? hunter May 2020 #37
This is the pre-vaccine era. Iggo May 2020 #44

OrlandoDem2

(2,064 posts)
2. Thank you! I work in a school. Schools are not made for physical distancing.
Thu May 14, 2020, 10:57 AM
May 2020

There are many faculty and staff who are in the at-risk category due to age or other physical conditions.

Plus, many kids go home to families where someone else is at risk.

In short, schools are Petrie dishes and we need parents and the public demand innovative schedules that allow for physical distancing....whether that means alternating days of attendance, double sessions each day, or something else. I’m not opposed to opening schools if done safely.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
4. The petri-dish quality of schools is exactly why
Thu May 14, 2020, 11:00 AM
May 2020

kids pass colds and other bugs around to other kids and their teachers and bring them home to their families. It's bad enough for the more minor diseases but this one kills people.

tblue37

(64,979 posts)
11. Besides, kids get cv-19, too, and can suffer terrible consequences & even death.
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:01 PM
May 2020

Parents won't want to play Russian Roulette with their kid's lives.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
15. Living is like playing Russian Roulette with your life every day,
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:19 PM
May 2020

but we normally don't sit around and think of it that way. Was there some news update that said we are immortal except if we get COVID-19? People act like people dying is something new. It always happens and it always will. I'm not going to raise my children to be scared of everything. Teach them to live in fear of the world so they never do anything, but they decrease their odds of dying. Simply existing is all that matters, right? Forget the arts, education, work, sports. Just exist for as long as possible and sit around and watch tv. Is that what life is all about now? Just surviving blows.

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
20. Noted That On Another Thread
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:41 PM
May 2020

In retirement, I sub science & math, 7-12. There's no way to avoid contact in a school, absent a spacesuit.
The 11 schools where I work has, I'm estimating, 40+% of the staff at 45 or older.
And, at 63, I don't know how excited I'd be about helping out if the staff is dropping like flies.
These people talk without thinking it through. They don't even think it through to the capacity of their feeble minds.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
27. There's a about a 4% chance of death if you are in the older population,
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:57 PM
May 2020

but your chances of death from any cause also increase with age. I figure that from our Maine stats. Maine has the oldest population and they've pretty much only been giving COVID-19 tests to people 60+ around here, so our stats are pretty concentrated with older people. Doesn't sound like dropping like flies really. Being older than 45 is not usually the point they would use for increased risk. It is older than 60.

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
47. You Going To Take The Risk?
Thu May 14, 2020, 03:37 PM
May 2020

There's a 0.8% of getting killed in a car crash.
If that were 5x higher, would we call it dropping like flies?
I would.

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
48. Does Your Analysis Include...
Thu May 14, 2020, 03:53 PM
May 2020

...the probability of high viral loading in a school leading to higher impact?
I didn't think so!
You played around with a couple numbers and drew conclusions apropos of nothing.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
3. "Children attended school in the pre vaccine era for over a century."
Thu May 14, 2020, 10:58 AM
May 2020

Yes, they did. And some of them died of measles, diphtheria and polio.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
22. If one of those dead kids was yours, would you still be OK with the fact
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:49 PM
May 2020

that a lot of other kids survived and the planet is teeming with people? Or would you rather there had been a vaccine so your kid could have been one of the people the planet is teeming with?

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
38. Again
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:18 PM
May 2020

Yes, I would have to find a way to be OK with it. Life is never without risk and we cannot control who dies and when they die. My kid could contract this particular illness in a whole bunch of other circumstances for that matter, not just school. I can't stop shopping. We can't sit around being miserable and fixated on death. Sure, it would have been better if there was a vaccine, but everything can't be on hold for a vaccine.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
5. This new inflammation issue with children who had Covid-19
Thu May 14, 2020, 11:02 AM
May 2020

suggests that it can cause serious and lasting damage to a scary percentage of kids.

Few kids get the virus, but even some of those who had a mild case are getting what looks like an overwhelming immune overload days or weeks later.

But then, these GOPers don't actually care about kids. They don't even care about schools. This is all in slavish obeisance to Trump. He says, "We need to re-open, and start with schools!" and after that, there is no choice for them, apparently. They have to go to obscene lengths to justify and support him.

(And I went to school in the pre-vaccine era. I remember measles sweeping through my little Catholic school. These younger GOPers are fortunate that they didn't have to live through that, thanks to the WHO and CDC and other health organizations that invented the vaccines and got them out to the entire world.)

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
8. What about the issue of the kids not getting an education?
Thu May 14, 2020, 12:40 PM
May 2020

How long do you think it is acceptable for the kids to go with education? Just wondering. I would like my 5th grader back in school in the fall for 6th grade. I'm am very afraid that these kids are going to be lacking skills because they are not going to school. FYI, the home schooling thing doesn't work when the parents have to work. What's your solution there? People need to work to support their families and kids need to be in school so that they can one day do the same thing for their families.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
21. Right, children die sometimes
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:43 PM
May 2020

It's sad, but realistically, most kids won't die. Do we deny all children an education because a very few of them might die? It seems that's what we do now.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
23. If your kid died would you feel differently, or
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:52 PM
May 2020

would you just shrug it off because some kids have to die so others can be educated?

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
33. You can't make decisions for large amounts of people in such a personal way
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:08 PM
May 2020

It's not that some kids have to die so that others can be educated. People will die anyhow because it is the natural order of things. We can't control everything. It is sad when someone dies, but we have to continue with doing the work of living.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
36. Tell that to the parents of a child who died of covid-19 or Kawasaki's syndrome
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:15 PM
May 2020

because the GOP (and apparently others who should know better) think it's OK to send kids back to school in the middle of a pandemic. They closed the schools in 1918 because of the Spanish flu; I hope to God we're remembering some of the lessons learned then. But evidently not everybody is getting the message.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
39. I don't think they closed all the schools all over the country
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:22 PM
May 2020

and not for this long or as long as some people want. It might make sense to close schools in areas that have a big out break, sure, but that really isn't the case of a lot of places in this country. Not every place is NYC. The one size fits all approach to handling this pandemic doesn't make sense.

eppur_se_muova

(36,227 posts)
6. Ummm ... that's not a classroom. Don't let the orderly rows fool you.
Thu May 14, 2020, 11:18 AM
May 2020


Good old days indeed, that pre-vaccine era.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
29. My mother was a nurse in those days. She told us about the iron lungs
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:01 PM
May 2020

and when the Salk vaccine became available she made the point that if we didn't want to be in one too we were sure as hell going to get our polio shots, like it or not, no whining about how you don't like shots.

keithbvadu2

(36,362 posts)
7. only 2-3% of them would die
Thu May 14, 2020, 11:50 AM
May 2020

Dr. Oz just said our children should go back to school because only 2-3% of them would die.

Apr 16

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213297826

Pick any two out of each hundred that you are ok with dying.


crickets

(25,896 posts)
9. I am astounded at the number of ghouls who publicly announce
Thu May 14, 2020, 12:40 PM
May 2020

that they are willing to sacrifice other people's children. It just boggles the mind.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
10. It is not sacrificing children
Thu May 14, 2020, 12:58 PM
May 2020

I'm betting a lot of people want their kids back in school. Everyone I talk to does and they are not all Republicans. Talk to some people who have school aged children and find out how they actually feel about it. There are always risks in life, but I don't consider doing normal activities as sacrificing my child. These are just risks we have to take to live in this world. It has always been this way. Christ, in the 80's people just let their kids do whatever and most of us made it to this point. Now society seems to want us to shelter our kids from everything in the world, which is the complete opposite from how we were raised.

crickets

(25,896 posts)
17. What I'm getting from these politicians is that
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:28 PM
May 2020

it's not their children who would be sitting in a classroom petri dish all day, exposing all of the adults around them, not their kids who will bring those germs home to them and all of their family and all whom they come into contact with, not their kids who will make it impossible for anyone with compromised immunity to shelter in place if they share a home with children, and not their kids who might be in the small percentage who will die if they come down with this illness. These are all other people's kids they are talking about as though they are abstract ideas, not living, breathing people.

There are children who, if they stay home from school, will live. If they go to school, some will die.

Parents who find their kids so inconvenient, who so want their kids out of the house for a while that they are willing to take the chance of letting them die are complete ciphers to me. Of course everybody wants their kids back in school, but let's have that school experience be safe for them. Right now, it is not safe.

When I was a kid no one supervised us for the majority of the day spent out of school. I walked into an unlocked house in the afternoon and had a snack, grabbed the bike and ran around the neighborhood and surrounding woods getting into all sorts of things I shouldn't have. Luckily, there were tetanus shots to make sure random scrapes and rusty nails didn't kill me, and every other vaccination I needed, I had. If you think the eighties were a free for all for kids, the sixties put that in the shade. We didn't even have seat belts. *waves cane*

Today no one would think of leaving the doors unlocked, just as we wouldn't think of having unprotected sex in an era of AIDS, as a society we are a little more wary of the sad fact of kidnappings, and we don't send kids to school without all of their vaccinations.

There is no vaccine for COVID-19. There isn't even an overarching prescribed treatment for the virus right now, because it isn't fully understood yet. Keeping kids home from school during a pandemic isn't "sheltering them from everything in the world," it's just exercising common sense so they don't get needlessly killed.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
19. Sure, so the kids should just go without an education indefinitely then.
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:40 PM
May 2020

It's already going to be 3 months. Let's make it a year or two. Whatever.

It's not about being inconvenienced. It is about quality of education. The odds are quite good that the kids won't die. People let their kids do riskier things all the time, like play football for example. Parents should be allowed to decide the level of risk they find acceptable. There is risk involved in doing anything.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
28. The odds might be good that they won't die, but the odds aren't so good
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:57 PM
May 2020

that they won't bring the virus home to their parents and their vulnerable grandparents - not to mention the teachers and staff in the schools. There's a reason most school districts require measles vaccinations (and measles isn't always a minor disease; it killed a lot of kids before a vaccine was developed), and that reason is that diseases spread like crazy because the kids are close together and they're messy. Their noses run, they don't wash their hands, they touch everything. Schools are Petri dishes. If we don't want measles in schools, why are we OK with covid-19? And some of the kids will die, possibly of Kawasaki's syndrome if not the virus itself.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
31. Grandparents pretty much don't have to see the kids in most families
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:01 PM
May 2020

We have to be OK with the best we can do at the time. If we have a vaccine for something, then sure, require it for attendance. We'd have to be OK with measles if we didn't have a vaccine.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
35. Most families? In many, many families, especially immigrants and low-income people,
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:11 PM
May 2020

Grandma lives with and is an integral part of the family. Sometimes Grandma is raising the kids because the parents can't for some reason. Sometimes Grandma is a necessary babysitter because the family can't afford day care. In my own family my great-nephews' grandmother babysits so my niece can work. You can't just write grandparents out of the picture; many live with the immediate family and see the kids every day if they aren't actually babysitting. They aren't all in nursing homes (which aren't safe either).

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
43. Yeah, sometimes
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:34 PM
May 2020

But that is sometimes. We can't plan for every exception, but schools should be open in the fall for areas with low amount of cases.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
32. For those who feel that way, I'd ask them whether they'd sacrifice their own kid
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:05 PM
May 2020

to make sure the schools were open for the other kids, because that's what it comes down to. If there's even only a 1% chance of death, and there are 200 kids in a school, two of them will die. Which two? Who's OK with that kind of lottery?

crickets

(25,896 posts)
40. This. This right here. Thank you.
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:23 PM
May 2020

I don't even have kids and don't have to worry about being around them, and I feel so strongly about this that I cannot comprehend the argument to send them back to school. Having children at home 24/7 and the limitations of online learning for younger students are valid issues, true, but sending everyone back to the classroom is just not a good idea.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
42. Yeah, you don't have kids
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:29 PM
May 2020

So you don't have to worry about how this affects your kids. You could probably comprehend it if you had kids right now. Again, it should be based on the area, but there's a lot of areas in this country where there are low amounts of cases.

crickets

(25,896 posts)
45. What are you saying?
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:40 PM
May 2020

I worry about how it affects everyone's kids, and not just kids in the US.

If I had children, they would be foremost in my mind, obviously, but I would still care about everyone else's children too. I am expressing concerns for other people's children because I care as a society member, I worry about children dying of a disease that could have been avoided because I have empathy for other people.

Education is important, and I understand that you are concerned your child/ren get an education and get a job. I get it. We all get it. You want your kid to go back to school, and if death comes a knockin', well tough tits, death happens. Trust me when I tell you that everyone reading your words understands you loud and clear.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
41. That lottery has already been happening every day of our lives
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:25 PM
May 2020

so we have to be OK with it. It isn't sacrificing. It is living.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,271 posts)
46. So why are we even bothering with doctors or hospitals or medicines at all?
Thu May 14, 2020, 03:17 PM
May 2020

Since everybody dies of something eventually, why don't we just let nature take its course instead of trying to prevent or treat any illness - so if you die, you die? Your kid died? Your spouse? Your mother? Hey, shit happens. People die every day! That's living!

dsc

(52,129 posts)
13. the small pox vaccine dates to the 1700's
Thu May 14, 2020, 01:09 PM
May 2020

now yes, there are diseases for which we didn't have vaccines but we did close schools for the flu back in 1918, and the only reason we didn't close them for polio is because polio outbreaks occurred in the summer when schools, were wait for it, closed.

GoCubsGo

(32,061 posts)
30. This vile monster needs to spend some time working at Boston Children's Hospital.
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:01 PM
May 2020

Specifically, in the ward that's tending to the kids with the bizarre COVID-related syndrome. Maker this scumbag scrub their bed pans and do the janitorial work in their room. What a vile woman.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
37. Is this the "Again" they were talking about in MAGA?
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:15 PM
May 2020

Cancer and heart disease take a back seat.

Viruses and bacteria are the leading cause of death again...

Iggo

(47,487 posts)
44. This is the pre-vaccine era.
Thu May 14, 2020, 02:38 PM
May 2020

She wants to make life and death decisions for me and you, and she doesn’t even know what time it is.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»GOP candidate wants kids ...