What too many Americans will never admit

[misanthrope]

The whole reason we are in this terrible mess right now is America's reaction to having an African-American POTUS. That's it, everything boiled down to a root cause. America's original sin, which is the racism behind manifest destiny, the genocide against Native Americans and slavery/white supremacy was the momentum.

If you lived through the aftermath of the civil rights movement, it's no surprise. If you're a white person whose heard the bigoted remarks when others think it's "safe" to talk among pale faces, it's no shock. If you know all the coded language, know about redlining and "states rights," then you're unfazed.

It fueled birtherism, the Tea Party, the heightened intransigence of the GOP, the wild-eyed reactions to anything associated with Obama and the election of Trump. These are the fruits of the Whitelash.

[rusty quoin]

1. That's a lot to do with it, but not everything. Rush hated anything to do with the left.

Obama just gave them another reason.

[misanthrope]

3. The deeply ingrained impetus of racism

So deep that many never recognize it, is what stirred the fervor that led to Trump.

[happy feet]

25. +1

[murielm99]

29. I agree.

Much of our history is rooted in racism. It was written into the Constitution, where slaves were 3/5 of a person. The Electoral College was a racist compromise. We speak of institutional racism, which gives some people an excuse to shrug and ignore it as something they cannot change.

In Europe, where the Catholic Church was so powerful for so many years, anti-Semitism was a huge part of history. While I have never cared for the Hitler comparisons when it comes to trump, maybe I have been wrong. He played on racism and used it to win over many people who would never admit to racism. He is trying to kill as many blue state voters as possible. Hitler did the same thing with the Jews to seize power in a country broken by WWI and yes, a pandemic.

We still have time to fix this and move on. Will we?

[misanthrope]

35. Trump used racism from the start

In 2015, his racist rhetoric against undocumented immigrants was the central plank in his platform. His authoritarian playbook was on full display then.

[progressoid]

30. +1

[Solomon]

34. Proving the OPs point.

[JI7]

54. exactly

[H2O Man]

70. +1

[JI7]

53. they were already bigots. Obama didn't make them that way

[SheltieLover]

2. Yes, sadly this is their unifying cause

[UTUSN]

4. K&R

[jberryhill]

5. Thanks, Obama

[Under The Radar]

6. Yes there is a lot of truth to that logic

But you also have to consider that the majority of Americans elected that black man president twice.
But Democrats must also accept responsibility for letting the Republican Party off the hook for two failed wars that were begun on false pretenses and the largest economic collapse in 80 years. That was a lack of messaging that I hope that we have learned our lesson on.

[betsuni]

9. What do you mean by "lack of messaging"?

[ProfessorGAC]

33. I'll Try

The late 80s recession was caused by Reagan. The terrible crash under Bush caused by deregulation & tax cuts that wasted a surplus, in a stupid attempt to stimulate an economy that didn't need stimulating.
We did not sell to middle america that voting R was against their own interest.
We got too wonky, too technical, too abstract. We also refused to play the politics of personal destruction.
Obama won by NOT making those mistakes and selling a hopeful message with charisma. Then, our party STILL didn't grasp the sales approach & let tea party slugs take Congressional cooperation away from a 2 term president.
We have better ideas, better plans & they benefit more people while doing modest harm to minimal people.
But, we're bad at sales.
Beating trump should have been as easy as betting that a ball would drop if I let go.
The poor salesmanship resulted in an election close enough to steal.
Should have been a landslide the other way.
My one local example: Obama vs. Keyes for senate here in Illinois. Charismatic candidate selling a good vision against a wonky conservative crank. It was one of the biggest landslides in federal office history.
4 years later, the tea party. 6 years after that, PINO.
We cannot reverse this until we admit we are bad at selling good ideas and alter the sales approach.

[betsuni]

46. Well, I still don't understand the idea that Democrats are bad at messaging.

Because Republicans know what Democrats stand for. Obama was going to involve the government in health care with "Obamacare" (as the Clintons did in the '90s). They want to redistribute the wealth, raise taxes (that was a big omg-Obama-is-a-socialist thing). Carter put solar panels on the White House, Al Gore was obsessed with global warming (and constantly talked about Social Security and "locked box" ), Obama made us use more energy efficient light bulbs and Michelle wanted us to eat vegetables and exercise. They regulate businesses and financial institutions. Big government.

Health care, equality, environmentalism, regulation, keeping social safety nets. Why doesn't everyone know these are Democratic issues when Republicans do? This is a mystery to me. The Republican Party gets people to vote against their own interests by using emotional wedge issues. Democrats can't do that because those wedge issues are lies.

Partisan Republicans and Democrats will vote for whoever's on the ballot. I blame the fact that so many Americans are politiphobes and won't educate themselves, and more people are susceptible to conspiracy theories.

Jonathan Rauch: "Between 25 and 40 percent of Americans ... have a severely distorted view of how government and politics are supposed to work. ... They see the contentious give-and-take of politics as unnecessary and distasteful. Specifically, they believe that obvious, commonsense solutions to the country's problems are out there for the plucking. The reason these obvious solutions are not enacted is that politicians are corrupt, or self-interested, or addicted to unnecessary partisan feuding."

Kim Kardashian supported Hillary Clinton in 2016 but after talking to her step-father, a Republican, had second thoughts and was reported in the press as being on the fence. What she did was actually take the time to look at the policies of both parties and decided the Democratic one was obviously the choice for her. If Kim can do this, no excuse for anyone else with access to a computer for thirty minutes not to.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. You Answered Your Own Question, B!

Everyone knows what they stand for. That is the abstraction.
Selling those ideas so the can become concrete actions is the key.
Like I said, good ideas & plans that help the most people not coming to fruition at the ballot box is a sales problem. There isn't a better, logical explanation. The Rs are better at selling. They've got inferior ideas, their plans help far fewer people, but here we are!
One silky example: everybody agrees that shampoo cleans hair very well. But, some brands sell more & are thought superior, even if they're not actually better. Why? Marketing.

[lunatica]

51. Selling fear works more effectively than selling contentment and comfort

Unfortunately the Democrats are unable to outsell the potent terrorizing effects of fear. The republicans are master salespeople when it comes to sowing hatred of the other by making it threatening.

Expecting the Democrats to learn to “sell” like the Republicans do would be counterproductive and senseless. Although it could work if there were any way to make conservatism and self serving life threatening. Maybe we could learn to scare the shit out of the citizens so they’ll vote for us so we can make them safer and better off.

I noticed decades ago that Republicans run for office pretending and promising Democratic issues, then once elected they settle back into screwing their constituents who aren’t rich. And they do both every time.

[ProfessorGAC]

55. Then Sell A Different Fear

PINO's incompetence is something many now fear. Yes, find a counter fear and sell this.
You say it's unproductive. I say that we've done the high road thing.
We got Gingrich, the tea party, dark money & PINO. We got a successful Dem president, but we lost Congress & lost momentum. Then we're here.
I'd say that approach failed.
Start scaring the shit out of middle america as to the real threat that impacts them! We don't have to make anything up!

[lunatica]

57. If the fear is about something real and present

and based on facts, then yes. We should go for it. But to use it just to empower personal and party greed would be the end of any empowerment of the people. The end of the Democratic Party as it should be.

But remember that even the Republicans run on Democratic promises. It’s after they get elected that they revert to form.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Hardly What I Said

But, I think we agree it's in principle.

[lunatica]

59. I wasn't repeating what you said

I was adding a slightly different thought.

[ProfessorGAC]

60. Sorry, I Misinterpreted

My fault.

[lunatica]

61. OK

[Cosmocat]

69. Mostly agree

W was a moron, but they backed him 100% until they got him reelected as they are doing with the would be dicator.

There is no doubt that once BHO got elected, Ds left him out alone against the shit storm of right wing slander.

He signed THEIR version of health care reform into law, not a single one of them voted for it, in fact they made it out to be the worst attack on our democracy in our history (then nominated a governor who implemented it in his state as their nominee for POTUS two years later) while Ds whimpered around. OWN IT and promote it for gods sake.

But, in the absence of that, all the insane shit the Rs and their media wholes screamed was all people heard.

This country indulges this shit time after time after time.

Rs promote themselves as all things good to elect POTUS.
They demand bipartisanship while fucking the country up.
Including blowing up the defict with tax cuts that 80% favor the rich.
Pointing out how they are fucking the country up is partisanship and hatred to their POTUS.
We bring in a decent, competent POTUS to clean up the the mess.
There are no calls for "bipartisanship" but instead they scream about LIBERAL OVERREACH, which the "liberal" media gladly forwards.
They do nothing other than obstruct like maniacs and scream about the deficit they created.
They use populism to elect a moron to POTUS again.

But, do agree that the primary sin that Ds have is not providing that counter voice to their lunacy.

The gaslighting to have most of the country believe in the evil liberal boogyman, unchallenged is what will be the end of us.

[betsuni]

7. In 2008 the balance of party identification among whites was about evenly divided.

In 2016 and now, obviously Republicans have a big advantage among white voters.

[Mopar151]

8. It is a big % of the Venn

IMHO - The lobe for "enslave, or compel by force" may be bigger, but it shares 90% (?maybe) with the racist/hater lobe.

[Skittles]

10. he was president

they were NEVER going to allow Hillary to be president

[Ford_Prefect]

11. "They" did not elevate and empower McConnell and Trump. The people who directed the whole

RW conspiracy planned to fight her or anyone else who was not under their control. Putin's agents and trolls made that possible.

Not one of the GOP candidates had what it takes to be an American President or a national leader.

The underlying divisions in our culture, including Racism and Sexism are not by themselves enough to win. We have clear and unmistakable proofs that Trump was put into office by altering the voting system at many points and denying the vote to many citizens, rather than simply gathering more votes. At least 4.3 million voters prove that.

[Skittles]

13. ANY of the GOP candidates would have been better than Trump

even though they all SUCKED

[Ford_Prefect]

17. They may not have been as egregiously inhumane and wreckless as Trump. Any one of them would

be just as eager to exploit the position and follow the lead of McConnell and the RW oligarchs in demolishing our government and our way of life.

Putin used the same play book in destabilizing Ukraine as he did to empower Trump. He could have applied it to any susceptible candidate and there is evidence that he explored using other GOP politicians.

The underlying anger and hatred are certainly real. They were effectively weaponized by the RW long ago.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

12. misogyny plus racism equals Pandemic.

That is basically it. And there are some on the far left who thought trump would help their cause in a very twisted way. They're busily equating Biden to trump, the headless monster.

[Skittles]

14. I'll go with that

after all, Obama was the 44th male president

[love_katz]

18. I agree with Skittles.

Racism is a very large piece of what brought us Agolf Twitler. But sexism, homophobia, and a huge fear of change, mainly social, but also economic . I can't get my head around the fact that even though it should be obvious that restricting our government leaders to rich white males is failing, our society just keeps chugging down the same old tracks. When something doesn't work, we try twice as much of it. Very depressing. And Skittles is right. The majority of our voters elected a Black man President, not just once, but twice.

[Skittles]

19. Hillary was the most qualified person ever to run for president

and she was held to impossible standards

she ran against the least-qualified person ever to run, and he was held to NO STANDARDS AT ALL

the misogyny and sexism is staggering

[love_katz]

21. And the misogyny and sexism have not stopped.

The Maggats still want to lock her up, and they seem to actually want the vampire robber barons to suck us all dry. Such winning.

[misanthrope]

36. It took eight years to reach full boil

The 2008 election wasn't completely lopsided. Popular vote margin was 52.9 percent to 45.7 percent. I knew conservatives who bit their tongue initially because of the racial hallmark. They told themselves Obama's election be used as fodder to refute the effects of racism.

Then the Tea Party materialized. The GOP's disrespect for an opposing POTUS entered unprecedented territory. Conservatives told themselves it would all be over in 2012.

The 2012 race was closer. Obama won 51.1 percent to 47.2 percent after Romney ran a less-than-stellar campaign against an incumbent. By the time that eight years was over, the pressure cooker could no longer hold what had now fully fomented.

[JI7]

56. the recession helped Obama . and he ran against

McCain and Romney who did not try to appeal to bigotry though their vp picks were shit.

but think of how much worse the racism would have been if Gingrich. Huckabee or Santorum were the gop nominee then.

Hillary would have won in 2008 also.

but none of this means the misogyny and racism would not be an issue. Hillary would have dealt with it as president.

[Blasphemer]

64. Yes... exactly... any competent D would have won in 2008...nt

[JI7]

15. Yup, I see comments on things which aren't exactly political from bitter Trump supporters

it's always implying that white men are victims.

For example I saw something on youtube of a woman from some asian country that came to teach math in the US in some rural area. It was mostly a positive video on her life teaching and at home. But just because she mentioned at some point in the video how she sometimes felt sad and missed home there were angry bitter comments about how nobody forced her to come here and she needs to get back.

The comments about missing home was nothing negative about her current situation. It's the same as any college student that moves away or anyone else who gets a job in a different town might make . It doesn't mean she did not enjoy living and doing what she currently does .

But the responses from these types were just so fucked up crazy .

I give this example to show how deep this problem is.

And it's why such a gross fucked up mess like Trump continues to be President. Because of white racists supporting him and those same white racists are the ones that elected most other republicans in office.

[Hekate]

16. It is worth remembering that we elected Obama twice. Well done, us. It took a huge effort...

...by a lot of entities to keep a woman from in effect being his third term.

The "whitelash" is not the majority. We have to keep reminding ourselves of that. Otherwise we despair.

They are, however, an incredibly vocal and dangerous minority, and are backed by some incredibly rich, powerful, and dangerous white men: DeVosses, Mercers, Eric Prince, Mitch McConnell. Trump.

How did I get to be so old and not realize how much they (not just the stereotypical gunhumpers but their monied patrons) hate democracy? It's stunning to me: they hate democracy. How did I get to be so old and not know that for such as these the Civil War never ended? It's stunning to me: the Civil War never ended at all. They hate me, and people like me, because I'm not in the right tribe, even though I'm white.

It sounds unbearably naive, but I've been fortunate to never live in a majority conservative state or town. My whole life, only two states: Hawai'i and California, where things are not perfect -- but troubles seemed human scale. Slavery and the Civil War are not part of our history. Other misdeeds, yes, but the Lost Cause, the War of Northern Aggression, the sundering of the nation -- no.

Sorry, if I've wandered off-topic. I just need to periodically remind myself that by all measures the people in power now are in the minority. Minorities have ruled before, and they are hard as hell to get rid of. But if I start believing they are in the majority -- I will truly despair.

KnR, misanthrope. Stay safe.

[love_katz]

20. THIS

Hekate, you have put your finger right on the problem: the uber rich hate democracy. That is exactly it!

[betsuni]

22. +1

[crickets]

28. Well said. nt

[keithbvadu2]

23. Even worse, the African-American POTUS was successful and respected around the world.

Even worse, the African-American POTUS was successful and respected around the world.

[Goodheart]

24. On several occasions I've heard and seen "WE had to suffer for eight years under Obama."

Yep.... having a black president automatically qualifies as "suffering" with some people.

Republicanism is, indeed, 99% about racism. That other 1% are filthy rich.

[Books_Tea_Alone]

26. This.

The only t.rumpinistas I have contact with anymore are my elderly parents but leading up to and right after the election I had many friends, neighbors,etc who suooorted him. All of them, without exception, said aloud this was the reason. Boldly said it out loud- I was stunned back then. The second reason (of course) had to do with large population of Latino immigrants in our community.
I do not speak to these relatives or friends so I do not know (or care) if they have seen the light.

[NNadir]

27. I always thought as much. n/t.

[OldBaldy1701E]

31. Yep!

Just as too many will not admit that unbridled capitalism is also responsible for much of the horror we face today. Hell, one of the more sobering aspects of 'Star Trek' was that they would occasionally point out that racism and classism are still ingrained in our society, even centuries into the future. I always wondered why they did that, and now that the 'future' is on those of us who grew up watching the original show it is apparent that those writers were nothing short of prophets. And, yet... the only protestors I see are those from the RW who are just sheeple, protesting the fact that they cannot exploit people on the scale they are used to. The only thing progressive I see is Covid. Our repressive, oligarchical government is still in place. As you said, we won't admit that we are not the greatest thing since sliced bread, and refuse to see the forest for the trees. Sad, really, but not a surprise.

[kairos12]

32. What I have always thought.

[Wounded Bear]

37. Yep! RWers got angry and motivated, LWers got complacent...

It's been my experience that we progressives/liberals/lefties in general are fine at working on a social justice problem. What happens, then, though, is that far too many of us get satisfied when we achieve a little progress and stay home, thinking we've somehow done some great thing.

RWers don't do that. Their religious roots won't let them. They think "God is on their side" so no matter how huge of a majority goes against them, they fight on, and seldom fairly.

Look at the issues. Since Roe v Wade, half of the RW coalition has been fanatically working to overturn it. Not accepting any setbacks, and continually working to re-align the courts to their way of thinking. Meanwhile, lefties have largely ignored the issue, thinking it was done.

Repubs and conservatives in general have been working since the 1930's to overturn such FDR successes as SS/SSDI and minimum wage laws. LWers have largely ignored them, thinking they are somehow "established law" and safe from RW agression. Nope, they are constantly under attack and being eroded every years.

There are other issues, but you get the point.

Progressives and liberals just got a wake-up call about just how fucked up the Repub party can get with Trump getting "elected." Let's keep our eyes on the prize and fight back.

[larwdem]

63. I agree

Dems abounded Obama In 2010

[zentrum]

38. kick.

[TrishaJ]

39. Well said.

YES, this is revenge for electing and re-electing Barack Obama.

[LakeArenal]

40. "They" were after Hillary Clinton for years before Obama.

They are haters. Haters hate.

[pansypoo53219]

41. i have a conservative epal who only ingests propaganda + is close minded about the moron +

climate change. only a mea culpa by oil + fux gnewz w/ she accept 'other'. fatith based ideology over sensible forever. logic is not enough. its crazy. although she is not pro life.

[moondust]

42. "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN"

It may not be obvious to everyone but I have no doubt that the narrative for that slogan goes like this:

The United States always had a white guy as President and it was always the greatest country on Earth! Then along came this black guy from Kenya who cheated his way into the White House and the country went straight to Hell. Now we have to return a superior white guy to the White House who can fix everything the black guy wrecked. Vote for the superior white guy and Make America Great Again!


Trump was the world's most infamous lying birther/racist with a history of racism going back decades. That was never a secret. His campaign was indeed an extension of the racist Tea Party and birtherism. That red MAGA hat is just the new Klan hood without hiding the face. I'm not sure much of his cult cares about anything he says or does because their overriding concern is the perpetuation of white supremacy. Add to that the oligarchs who just want to get rid of laws and prosecutors (i.e. government); Trump is more than happy to oblige with that.

Welcome to the Trump Confederacy!

[lambchopp59]

43. so many are also unwilling to admit

To that tiny little itch that is telling them the whole MAGA crusade is not quite going as planned.
But their orange leader has taught them never admit to a mistake.

[Dopers_Greed]

44. That is part of it

But I also think that Democrats have been too mealy-mouthed and unwilling to show up for a fight. They are afraid of right-wing propaganda like Republicans are afraid of Trump.

They surrendered so many elected offices nationwide during Obama's presidency with barely a fight. All the power Republicans amassed was deployed against Clinton, and I would argue that this helped Trump more than racism.

But I will admit that Dems have gotten better starting with the 2018 midterms.

[Initech]

45. Fox News fueled a lot of this hysteria.

I just wonder where we would be if that POS network didn't exist.

[dem in texas]

47. Don't forget - Hillary won the popular vote by 3,000,000 votes

And Trump barely won the electoral college. I still think the Russies did more than play with social media and that Trump was not the true winner of the electoral college votes.

[Hotler]

49. Selfishness is a big part of it also.

The "I have mine, fuck the rest of you." crowd.

[Nitram]

50. I take issue with the notion that it was "America's reaction." It was the reaction of a basket of

deplorable with nothing but their guns and a fundamentalist religion to hold onto. Yes, they are Americans, but they don't represent the whole of America. We will take America back.

[Catch2.2]

52. Sadly you are right

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

62. Sadly... this has been my mantra as well. n/t

[Blasphemer]

65. Speaking truth to power... K&R... nt

[The Magistrate]

66. I Tend To Agree, Sir

People identify with the President as they do no other political figure, for the President embodies the nation, and to the degree a person draws emotional sustenance by feeling themselves a part of the nation, they necessarily see themselves reflected in the person of the President.

It seems on the evidence that a substantial portion of the white populace, particularly the rural white populace, cannot see themselves reflected in a black man, and particularly in a black man of clearly greater intellectual attainment than themselves. In their recoil from the necessity of doing so, if they are to continue drawing what emotional sustenance they do from identifying themselves with the nation the President embodies, they turned to a perfect embodiment of everything about themselves they knew to be opposite to Mr. Obama --- a moronic blowhard, a man without taste or manners, a coward and a confirmed liar, whose opinion of his own worth is elevated so far above the actual as to assume legendary proportions. Whose sole qualification for the office is that he is a white man in whom these creatures may see themselves not just reflected but magnified, the very worst of themselves made flesh, beneath a hairspray crown.


"Defeat of a dangerous enemy is something to be for."

[Spiggitzfan]

67. In addition

Plus the rt-wing white male indignation at even the possibility of having a female president.
Ultimately the US patriarchy has 2 parts: race, & gender.

[ashredux]

68. We still are in a Civil War....the shooting stoped, but not the war

[Mr.Bill]

71. The OP makes some valid points, but I think

we are in the mess we are in because Richard Nixon didn't die in prison. We can't make that mistake again.

[oldsoftie]

72. If that was the case, Obama would've lost in '12.

Trump won because he's a celebrity & a con man. He used clips of hollywood stars urging him to run years ago as a jump off point. Then the constant pounding of Hillary to bring in the Clinton haters. Top it off with MAGA for the gun crowd, and you squeak into office.

[McCamy Taylor]

73. America was built upon labor theft.

Just like the Mob, our elites get rich by stealing the labor of others, mostly women and people of color (and not so long ago, children).

[H2O Man]

74. Recommended.

I definitely agree.

[Frances]

75. Agree

The same thing happened when the union soldiers left the South

[PatrickforO]

76. Sadly, I must agree with you.

I really thought we could get beyond it. Obama was a quality guy - a moral, kind, loving father and husband, honest. And, what's more, he was a very good president. I know I felt safe when he was in the WH, because you could be assured he was taking it seriously, and taking care of business.

The only reason we have the simpering idiot we have in there now is because the kluxers and nazis and bible thumping crazies just couldn't get their heads around a competent, moral, honest and good president who happened to be black.

[sandensea]

77. Reactionaries gonna react

I agree with you: the racist outrage over Obama's 8 years in office - as competent as he was and as productive as they were - is what brought us here.

But this too shall pass.

[misanthrope]

78. It doesn't have to be "outrage"

The deep racism of our culture can manifest not as vociferous protests but just subtle misgivings, mistrust that can't be defined or placed. It doesn't have to result in Klan membership or tiki torches. The most widespread effects are buried further into the psyche.

[no_hypocrisy]

79. At this point in time, it's a runaway horse.

A lot has to do with having had a biracial president. There is a very racist segment of this country that survived Jim Crow that can't stand the idea of a white woman and a literally African-American man producing a biracial child who segued into the Leader of the Free World, advancing beyond their status. Their heads exploded because there was nothing they could do to stop it or to end it.

However, they could do something after-the-fact: vote for Obama's polar opposite incantation, Donald Trump. As Michael Moore would say, the "biggest fuck you" they could offer.

But if you take a long look around, it isn't about Obama anymore. It's about "owning the Libs." That's right, anyone who isn't a MAGAt is suspect and can't be trusted in government and they won't submit themselves to those individuals. Think about it: Joe Biden is an older white guy like Donald Trump. Not a drop of "colored blood" in him. But if elected, he'll get the same, if not more, animus than Obama. Because he isn't Donald Trump.

And that indicates that it's no longer a political movement, it's a cult and it's not about Obama anymore.

[brooklynite]

80. Sorry, disagree

Do some people hate the idea that Obama was President? Of course, but they weren't Democratic voters previously. The reason we DO have Trump is that ENOUGH Obama voters chose Trump over Clinton. Some didn't like her personally, some were frustrated by politics in general and decided to try the non-politician.