General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's baaaaack: a demand by certain DUers for a military coup in the US ...
Some of you have been around awhile, and some are new (or "new" ) .
I'm one of those who keep saying hell no.
But this is your opportunity to fully express yourselves. I would love to hear it explained in full: how the US military, which is designed to be non-political, would up and do what you want. How the US, which is designed to be a republic, would remain a republic after a military overthrow. How the inevitable armed insurrection by the heavily armed knuckle-draggers would be put down. How any of this is supposed to work to our benefit.
I really want to know. Thank you.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Are all kinds of deplorable authoritarian and anti-constitutional solutions just fine when Democrats do them? No, actually, they are not just fine, no matter who does them, and I can't think of many worse solutions than a military coup.
rpannier
(24,304 posts)When I lived in Korea 3% of self-described liberals (and 4% of conservatives) favored a return of the Korean monarchy.
I'm in Japan now and I read it's about 6% of liberals want to 'enhance' the power of the Emperor
I can't say about Europe
Atticus
(15,124 posts)jkirch
(256 posts)I'm certainly not saying I want this to happen. I Read this little article which speculates how a thing like that could go down.
https://theconversation.com/thinking-the-unthinkable-could-there-be-a-military-coup-in-the-us-82403
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)L'anglais seulement.
Turin_C3PO
(13,650 posts)No to any type of coup. If the military were to get involved, history shows theyd never give back power to civilian authorities.
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)Dead for years and all of a sudden active and posting
Hekate
(90,193 posts)Not to mention antithetical to what the US stands for. And now it is back -- I've seen what must be half a dozen posters hold forth on it.
I think you are right: Zombies and Socks and Trolls, Oh My!
While I wish there was a specific complaint I could file with the Admins, the responses in this thread to my OP have been very heartening to me.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I saw a post a few days back where someone said the guy who slashed tires at a hospital, he was on drugs, should be "executed" instead of getting him some help in treatment and then face charges.
Remember that.
Miguelito Loveless
(4,438 posts)The military will never overthrow Trump, PERIOD
They are likely to help him overthrow Congress, though, because history shows us that is how militarys work.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)somewhere...
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)Lets take a breath everyone. We have beaten this dead horse before.
He isn't going to be removed under the 25th, he isn't going to impeached and removed, he isn't going to be overthrown.
We have to win the election, unfortunately that has been the only way we were going to be rid of this pig since the day he took office.
Numbers of dead are just numbers. The magical thinkers don't get what 30K dead means, and many of them don't care at all.
Some of them only wish that more libs were dead.
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)The ignore button is my friend.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I can understand the frustration, and the anger, but this country fought, and some would argue is still fighting, a civil war 150 years ago.
Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)It won't be the glorious return to sanity you think it will be.
It's delusional to believe the military would simply stand down. Not even the American military. They aren't imbued with some sort of special super-patriotic allegiance that prevents them from trying to keep the power they seize.
LizBeth
(9,946 posts)If you are suggesting that the military step in against rw out there protesting or coup against Trump, there will be many that would refuse first off. But then, I am not sure what you are talking about here, so I can be way off. But really, for us Dems to even think the military would hold honor over political party, not gonna happen. We have seen it over the last three years. Trump going after respected military and still they excuse and support and will vote for him.
procon
(15,805 posts)Yes, we can probably agree that Trump is the worst president with country has ever endured. We hate his lies, his bullying, the bragging, the petty retaliation, the long running vendettas and his embarrassing stupidity. We've endured his immorality and lack of ethics for far too long. His disdain for the traditional norms of our society, and his blatant disregard for the rule of law, leaves us outraged and drives us to find bizarre solutions in questionable decisions.
Opting for coup, especially in this country that prides itself on the adherence to the rule of law, is the ultimate insult. For all the evil Trump has done, for his selfishness in bending the law to benefit himself and ignoring the existing laws to peddle his self serving agenda regardless of who he hurt, we cannot follow in his tracks.
If we have learned nothing during Trump's reign of errors, it is the enduring value of our Constitution. We would be going far worse damage than Trump if we think to set aside the Constitution and start a military coup.
VMA131Marine
(4,124 posts)in November.
You have to vote Biden even if you have to crawl over broken glass to do it. He has to win big enough that not even Trump can question the legitimacy of his loss, even though he will anyway. The period from the election to inauguration is going to be a total shitshow. Dont expect Trump to help with the transition or attend the swearing in.
kurtcagle
(1,601 posts)The problem with power is that unless it is legitimate - given by the people - keeping that power becomes harder and harder to maintain through any other than violent means. Trump lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million people, so his administration has already labored under the stain of illegitimacy, even before it began to fall apart. A military coup would be similarly disastrous, and, given the attempted purge Trump has made, may very well end up supporting Trump at the senior level, setting the stage up for a military in complete disarray.
The only way to remove Trump from power is at the ballot box, and to be honest, it's likely the best course of action, as it restores the legitimacy of the office. I think Wisconsin was a major clarion call - people are angry at being denied the right to vote, and I think this transcends whether people are Democrats or Republicans.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)DUers.
Hekate
(90,193 posts)... I have broken the rules.
Hint: I have not
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Hekate
(90,193 posts)... I checked my notes (as you said, "checks notes" ) and you've been here some 4 months and a guy or gal can certainly absorb a lot about a culture like DU in that time.
ornotna
(10,763 posts)No! It's crazy talk, pure and simple.
tazkcmo
(7,286 posts)Is in the hell no crowd. Why would you want to put service members in that situation? May as well shoot your Trumpian relatives right now. Or how about your grandparents? Geez...
roamer65
(36,739 posts)The liberate bullshit from today Im sure got their attention.
If there is a coup, COVID-45 will be shoved aside on medical concerns and Pence will take office.
You wont see troops in the streets.
EndlessWire
(6,377 posts)but, this guy is a DICTATOR. He is not going to stop increasing his power. This is not a time to just assume that we will even *have* an election in November, or that he won't cheat to win. We have to have a plan in place: Plan A, Plan B, Plan C.
He has traitors helping him, and protecting him. He wipes his ass with the Constitution. No, I'm not advocating a military coup, but neither am I saying that extraordinary action will be ignored.
Eventually, this "man" will have someone come and shoot you DEAD for daring to criticize him. That's what dictators do. So, we gave him emergency powers, and he needs to keep a plausible reason for martial law, and at anytime he gets a wild itch on his backside he can declare martial law--because we gave the power to him.
So, he's gonna foment chaos, keep the virus going, and it is reality that he really could conceivably order troops in to keep the peace. HIS peace. Because we said he could!
It's nice to live in a country where we never had to consider that our President might by the domestic enemy. Gosh. But, if we find ourselves under Trump's thumb with no end in sight, then we will have to find a way to overthrow the government of a tyrant. And, we will have to be pristine as the driven snow while we do it. But, that's what it's coming to.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)Express your opinion while you can!
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Real internet tough guys.
ExciteBike66
(2,280 posts)"How the inevitable armed insurrection by the heavily armed knuckle-draggers would be put down."
Let's just say...these guys aren't ISIS material. They have lived relatively comfy lives in the wealthiest nation on earth and of course have zero experience fighting a modern military (even the vets, when was the last time we fought a modern power?)
I would be more worried about the individual soldiers and sailors in our military taking sides.
roamer65
(36,739 posts)I think they would be mostly on our side.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)because of reasons.
Everyone always thinks they would fair well in a civil war.
Everyone is always wrong.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)If the people want to exercise the founding principals of overthrowing a king, I am all in. Tyrants must get what tyrants deserve.
First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...between now and November? Some state capital beer hall putsch, acting openly on "orders" of the President of the United States? Anyone think this is impossible? I don't. Not anymore. Trump wouldn't lift a finger to intervene--it's his bright idea, after all. How would a "liberated" state run their election in November--especially if the virus is still around, mucking up all plans? No, I don't think a coup is likely or desirable. But the possibility of a constitutional crisis pushing the republic to a breaking point in 2020 is very real, for the scenario given above, and others, as well...
Caliman73
(11,694 posts)If civil order started breaking down, the state police, and national guard could be called up to restore order, like they did during the LA riots in the 90's.
If Trump intervened on behalf of those people causing the breakdown of law and order, then there would likely be such an outcry that something legal and political would be more possible to remove him or at very minimum, his chances as election would be completely crushed.
JI7
(89,177 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,589 posts)A better media campaign to discredit him is the answer to Trump's ruthless politics.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)that there are a large number of people who don't mind force or dictatorial actions if it supports their ideology.
And that's scary as FUCK.
Caliman73
(11,694 posts)The military will not support a liberal ideology. At best, if Trump REALLY HAD TO be removed from office for some horrific thing he was doing or planning to do, the military AT BEST would restore order. The military would not all of a sudden implement FDR style New Deal programs to increase liberty. They would focus on security and order, which would mean controlling the movement of the population, quelling insurrections, and looking out for opportunistic external threats.
Those people who advocate for the military simply removing Trump are divorced from reality.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)If Congress, well, the Senate, specifically, had done its damn job instead of bring so corrupt, we at least would not have such an unhinged madman as president, calling for civil war right now.
I think people are very frustrated when they talk about a military coup. The fact is, this is a partisan, Democratic Party web site. The opposition party is running amok right now, with a president THREATENING DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS through his insane, out of control, temper tantrum pitching followers. People on a DEMOCRATIC web site are going to get frustrated by that. Playing nice has not gotten us anywhere. People here are frustrated. I overlook the calls for a military coup, because I see that they are frustrated, and rightfully so. Their hearts are in the right place and I don't question their passion for our party and our country, because I know playing nice is getting us nowhere.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)And becomes a true dictator.. Putin style? I do believe that is his ultimate goal.
Hekate
(90,193 posts)Trump never had a political grand plan, because he's not a politician. He is what he always has been: a rich kid who used Daddy's money to get his start, a failed businessman (bankrupt over and over), a huckster, a con man. He has not got a clue about how government works and why we have government. He thinks everything is a crooked business deal -- hence Ukraine.
Many powerful Republicans saw him for what he was, but thought they could control the monster and get more of what they wanted: power and money. Mitch McConnell is one.
Putin, otoh, plans to break apart Western democratic alliances. Think about that. NATO, Paris Climate Accord, European Union -- everything that statesmen sweated to achieve: stability and peace from 1946 onward, everything we hoped & prayed for when we thought our world might be blown to atoms in WW III. Every POTUS from FDR and Truman to Barack Obama.
To Trump, they are obstacles to "deals" where he can play one against the other for personal monetary gain -- he even thought NATO was a trade alliance. He is a very stupid and ignorant man. Putin is neither stupid nor ignorant.
To Putin, all those Western democratic states and their alliances are reminders that the glory days of the USSR as a feared and powerful empire are over, and he wants the power and the glory back. As long as the US and the European Union remain united, he can't get what he wants. If he can find the right cracks and drive wedges in, it all falls apart into separate squabbling nations without the power they/we have now.
Putin had a hand in Brexit. He has had a hand in agitation to break apart the EU. We know he had a hand in making sure Hillary Clinton did not become president and that Donald Trump did.
Breaking apart the US isn't Trump's fantasy -- he hasn't got the imagination. Becoming an actual dictator -- all Trump wants is the big parade and constant adulation, and whoever can give him that, well...
But every time someone here at DU fantasizes about breaking America apart into several nations, or breaking California apart into several states, or feverishly claims they's just doing a thought-experiment about a military coup to get rid of Trump (I remember similar about Dubya), I really wonder if they have thought this through.
And if they have not thought it through, Putin definitely has. It would be the end of us as a republic, the end of us as an international power.
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)No military coup...it would be called enslavement and dictatorship.
Caliman73
(11,694 posts)Hypothetically, it is possible for the military to intervene and stabilize a significantly deteriorated situation. The problem is that once it is done ONE time, it becomes a tool in the tool box. The other problem is that the military, while not being a political institution, is filled with political people and most, especially those in power are decidedly illiberal. They would likely seek to restore order and the status quo, not bring about some kind of liberal renaissance.
The desire to remove Trump by any means is a reaction to his horrific administration and the continuing damage he is doing to the country. I understand the impulse, but impulse has to be tempered by judgement, knowledge, and wisdom. We have a mechanism to remove Trump from office and while that mechanism is slow, and not guaranteed, it is what we have and where we must focus our efforts.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)I dont advocate a coup, as in they place a bullet in his empty noggin and replace his cabinet with a junta of generals like some South American country.
But, just for the thought exercise, what if Agolf Twitler ordered a nuclear strike on Iran in October hoping to rally people to his side in a war fervor, or orders the military to liberate several states with democratic governors?
I would hope that the saner calmer minds of the Pentagon would ignore those orders. That would be akin to a coup because they are disobeying an order from their Commander In Chief.
But they might also view them as illegal orders.
What about a widespread military disobedience of his command? Is that a coup? Or not?
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Disasters bring out all types of people from the woodwork, that is for sure.
tritsofme
(17,323 posts)Certainly strange times.
ForgedCrank
(1,723 posts)One small town was going to "go get" the rivals in the next small town over.
Nobody is doing anything except voting our way out of this, and it will work this go-around. Even suggesting this as some sort of means should be dealt with harshly. We don't do things that way. We deal with this the same way we do the alcoholic drunk uncle Bob the Trump humper, we all just stop inviting him to Thanksgiving.
I've seen these posts over the years and they piss me off every time. All it does is make the other 99.999% of us look bad.