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SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 02:41 PM Apr 2020

Hydroxychloroquine - Help me out.

I have a neighbor who is a pretty good guy but he is a fox news watcher and he keeps inundating me with this idea that Hydroxychloroquine is completely effective and the media is blowing this whole pandemic out of proportion to ruin the economy. He even sent me a quack doctor video clip interview with laura ingrahm who was singing the virtues of the drug.


The thing is that all the stuff I read is that studies are inconclusive at best. Any info to arm me with in this conversation?

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hydroxychloroquine - Help me out. (Original Post) SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 OP
Go to Derek Lowe's blog... jmowreader Apr 2020 #1
This is like getting your immunization advice... 3catwoman3 Apr 2020 #2
Why bother? Moostache Apr 2020 #3
I know and I have that same feeling SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #20
You can look at some medical literature online... Newest Reality Apr 2020 #4
Thank you! SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #21
Tell him to go ahead. gibraltar72 Apr 2020 #5
Really, really tough to prove a negative, but positive proof just isn't there... TreasonousBastard Apr 2020 #6
Thanks for the replies keep them coming! SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #7
Prophylactic medications for Covid,... magicarpet Apr 2020 #8
This dude will be a micro-biologist & geneticist when we get done tossing info his way. magicarpet Apr 2020 #9
Ha Thanks man I appreciate it! SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #16
We already have people who have been taking these anti-malaria meds for years for their conditions. LisaL Apr 2020 #22
Ney....... magicarpet Apr 2020 #23
Oops it left part of that out,... magicarpet Apr 2020 #24
Earlier info... jmg257 Apr 2020 #10
Just smile at him and say...Bless Your Heart. Funtatlaguy Apr 2020 #11
Then someone Corgigal Apr 2020 #12
Sorry, we're screwed either way Rstrstx Apr 2020 #13
Thank you! SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #35
Yes,.. what you said. Also too there maybe a major social and economic transformation that,... magicarpet Apr 2020 #14
Yeah I keep hearing SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #17
Do you get you political advice from your physician? NCjack Apr 2020 #15
Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and readily available ansible Apr 2020 #18
Where is the evidence it actually does any good? LisaL Apr 2020 #19
Don't take it. But doctors are prescribing it here and elsewhere. Hoyt Apr 2020 #26
Rome was not built in one day.... magicarpet Apr 2020 #28
I took malaria pills when I was in Vietnam... kentuck Apr 2020 #25
Not much. elleng Apr 2020 #27
If tRump says take it... Blue Owl Apr 2020 #29
I read many local larwdem Apr 2020 #30
My understanding is that is has promise Steelrolled Apr 2020 #31
There's no point in arguing with these guys cyclonefence Apr 2020 #32
Yeah you may be right. SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #36
You know, caffeine is anti-malaria and anti pneumonia as well. ecstatic Apr 2020 #33
This post is why I wish SlogginThroughIt Apr 2020 #37
Who cares what your neighbor thinks? jberryhill Apr 2020 #34
WHO is not recommending its use mainer Apr 2020 #38

jmowreader

(50,451 posts)
1. Go to Derek Lowe's blog...
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 02:46 PM
Apr 2020
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/

Dr. Lowe is a drug-discovery chemist who writes an excellent blog. He has been covering coronavirus topics extensively.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
3. Why bother?
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 02:49 PM
Apr 2020

I would just let him go ingest whatever the fuck they want and ask them if you can have something of theirs to remember them by once they are gone. Seriously, anyone who is taking anything on the advice of Trump, the internet or god forbid Ingraham...Darwin was right and that's all you need to say...

* I am sorry if this was a friend of yours, but its not your fault if they kill themselves. Tell them not to but if they persist, say goodbye and move on.

 

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
20. I know and I have that same feeling
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 09:04 PM
Apr 2020

The problem is that our kids play together almost every day (before quarantine that is)

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
4. You can look at some medical literature online...
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 02:51 PM
Apr 2020

When I first came across it, the China and South Korea were using it for the secondary effects of severe pneumonia, and they had to simply field test it. So, I don't know how it got to the point that it is actually related to the virus itself or anything else, anyway.

They did have a basis to try that, so it was not a hoax in that sense, but a last ditch effort and there are databases of potential drugs for treatment, (not prevention, etc.) that can be tested still, but that's a long road before you get to clinical trials.

I recall also that South Korea combined hydroxychloroquine with zinc and the point was that the latter aided the zinc ion's absorption into cells, but that is all I have heard of it.

The down side of this whole hydroxychloroquine debacle is that it is toxic and has adverse side effects when used in high doses, so that's why it was a last-ditch for dying patients and it does not seem like anything all that potentially useful otherwise, as per people dosing themselves. In fact, that would be dangerous and ridiculous, especially when you look the drug up.

The fact is that we DO NOT have enough clinical trials to be assured of much and it is not for the general public or its benefits in my estimation, so it is hysterical, wishful thinking at this point and a sign of panic and desperation.

We have to wait for other effective treatments to come to light if there are any and, no, don't try that stuff at home.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
6. Really, really tough to prove a negative, but positive proof just isn't there...
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 03:02 PM
Apr 2020

This all goes back to a Korean almost-a-study where some patents with COVID-19 seemed to respond to this stuff. Actual, legitimate studies of such effects are hard to do, and so far this has been unrepeatable, and considered coincidental until further proof shows up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine

Regulatory approval
On 17 March 2020, the AIFA Scientific Technical Commission of the Italian Medicines Agency expressed a favorable opinion on including the off-label use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19.[33]

In the US, several state pharmacy boards reported that some doctors and dentists were writing prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine and a related drug, chloroquine, to themselves, family members, and staff.[34][35] Sudden demand spikes caused by hospital use for severely ill COVID-19 patients and prescriptions for prophylaxis have resulted in shortages; doctors have expressed concern that patients who have long taken hydroxychloroquine for other approved indications, like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, will be unable to procure needed medicine.[35][36]

On 28 March 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) to allow hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate products donated to the Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) to be distributed and used for certain people who are hospitalized with COVID-19.[3


https://www.medicinenet.com/hydroxychloroquine/article.htm

What is hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil), and what is it used for?
Hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) and its sister drug chloroquine (Aralen) are under investigation for treatment of the COVID-19 coronavirus disease
Korean doctors used these anti-malaria drugs to treat COVID-19 with some success, according to a paper filed with Elsevier in March 2020, but effectiveness is unproven.
Hydroxychloroquine is classified as an anti-malarial drug. It is similar to chloroquine (Aralen) and is useful in treating several forms of malaria as well as lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis. Its mechanism of action is unknown. Malarial parasites invade human red blood cells. Hydroxychloroquine may prevent malarial parasites from breaking down (metabolizing) hemoglobin in human red blood cells. Hydroxychloroquine is effective against the malarial parasites Plasmodium vivax, P. malariae, P. ovale, and susceptible strains of P. falciparum. Hydroxychloroquine prevents inflammation caused by lupus erythematosus and rheumatoid arthritis. The FDA approved hydroxychloroquine in April, 1955


https://www.healthline.com/health/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet

UNDER STUDY FOR COVID-19
Hydroxychloroquine and a related drug, chloroquine, are currently under study as possible treatments for COVID-19. This is the illness caused by the new coronavirus. These drugs have not yet been approved by the FDA for this use. Do not use these medications to treat COVID-19 unless your doctor recommends that you do so.

For current information about the COVID-19 outbreak, explore our live updates. And for information on how to prepare, advice on prevention and treatment, and expert recommendations, visit our coronavirus hub.

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
8. Prophylactic medications for Covid,...
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 03:11 PM
Apr 2020

Until the vaccine is found and tested 1+1/2 years, need the drug trails to assure no harm comes.

Until this vaccine comes out they need a prophylactic medication for people infected and approaching death. They also need to find an interim drug that will sheild/protect healthcare workers, Doctors, nurses, PNAs, resp. therapists, first responders from being infected while caring for the sick.

Anti-malarial and HIV/Aids drugs has shown promise to help Covid patient. France, Japan, South Korea, Italy have tested many of those drugs as last resort.

WHO is involved in drug studies with 60 some number drugs on the market yo see if any will help Covid patients until the vaccine finally comes out. This WHO DRUG STUDY IS CALLED,... SOLIDARITY.

~~~***~~~

A good article that delves into this issue,...
Science Magazine › news › 2020/03

WHO launches global megatrial of the four most promising coronavirus treatments ...
Mar 22, 2020 · On Friday, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced a large global trial, called SOLIDARITY, to find out ...

Much,.. much more at link,...

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/who-launches-global-megatrial-four-most-promising-coronavirus-treatments

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
9. This dude will be a micro-biologist & geneticist when we get done tossing info his way.
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 03:19 PM
Apr 2020

You parked yourself at a good site for good info.

Tell your friends,.. join up,.. become a star member. We put our heads and thoughts together to dismount trDumpieand remove Team trDump from the People's White House.

Help us safe Democracy,.. join up.
It is so much fun, sorta. Sorta scary too.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
22. We already have people who have been taking these anti-malaria meds for years for their conditions.
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 09:12 PM
Apr 2020

Pretty sure they are not immune from covid.

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
23. Ney.......
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:08 AM
Apr 2020

definition is - one who denies, refuses, opposes, or is skeptical or cynical about something.

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
24. Oops it left part of that out,...
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:19 AM
Apr 2020

Bang,.. bang,... kick,.. slam,... boom,...

Let's give that another whirl,...

Here we go,....

Merriam-Webster › dictionary › nay...
Web results
Naysayer | Definition of Naysayer by Merriam-Webster
Naysayer definition is - one who denies, refuses, opposes, or is skeptical or cynical about something.

~~~***~~~

Synonyms & Antonyms of naysayer
a person who distrusts other people and believes that everything is done for selfish reasons
those naysayers who attack the integrity of the entire judicial system
Synonyms for naysayer

cynic, misanthrope, pessimist
Words Related to naysayer

misandrist, misogynist
doubter, negativist, skeptic
belittler, critic, derider, detractor, scoffer
malcontent
defeatist, quitter
Near Antonyms for naysayer

optimist, Pollyanna, positivist
idealist, sentimentalist

~~~***~~~

One who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude. Naysayers are distinguished by their tendency to consistently view the glass half empty, make frequent one-way trips to negative town, and constantly emphasize the worst of a situation. They have the capacity to rant and whine for hours on end about the most insignificant inconveniences. They tend to travel solo, but have the keen ability to spread their pessimistic attitude to a group of unsuspecting bystanders and encourage others to employ their mindset.
Naysayers tend to blend in with those around them rather well, granted they have learned over the years to adapt to their surroundings. However, when the opportunity arises, their true nature will be exposed and they will stop at nothing to exclude others or bring a general sense of negativity to any situation.
Not to be confused with non-naysayers who fight against the negativity brought forth by naysayers, make the best of a situation and are not afraid to call out a naysayer on the spot.
Being the world renowned naysayer that he was, Jobe complained about nearly every aspect of the party and made sure nobody else had a good time.

~~~***~~~

noun
a person who habitually expresses negative or pessimistic views:
Despite a general feeling that things were going well, a few naysayers tried to cast gloom.

~~~***~~~



Meaning of naysayer in English

naysayer
noun [ C ]   often disapproving
US /ˈneɪˌseɪ.ɚ/ UK /ˈneɪˌseɪ.ər/

someone who says something is not possible, is not good, or will fail:
He ignored the naysayers and persevered.
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
Not hopeful
be in a funk idiombe on a hiding to nothing idiombleakbleaklybleaknesschancedoomeddowncastdownheartedforlornfunkgive up on sb/sthgloomhopelessnesslose heart idiommerchantmerchant of doom/gloom idiomnegativelyundonewhat are you going to do? idiom

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
12. Then someone
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 04:56 PM
Apr 2020

needs to tell. 9,441 families that a loved one should have lived if they just received these meds.

The death rates say, no magic pill.

Rstrstx

(1,393 posts)
13. Sorry, we're screwed either way
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 05:24 PM
Apr 2020

Opening everything back up now will lead to massive new infection rates which will flood the medical system and cause many more deaths than necessary. The result would be chaos and a wrecked economy, leaving many survivors who had severe cases of it with permanent lung damage. Staying home these next few weeks is also going to hurt the economy but at least we'll have kept mortality rates lower. In a month we'll also hopefully have a better handle on treatment options.

You can tell him that Plaquenil (hydroxychloroquine) is already being recommended by most hospitals for patients being admitted with covid. It does seem to help some if the patient is not too far gone but if it were completely effective like he thinks the number of cases and deaths should be sharply dropping off.

While you're at it also tell him this is the price we are paying for being unprepared and trying to run government on the cheap. All these departments and regulations that Trump ditched were there for a reason. Sure it's great for short term profits but sooner or later it's gonna come back to bite you in the ass.

I think what terrifies Fox and the 1% the most is that they realize this is inevitably going to lead to things like universal healthcare and mandated paid sick leave and more government intervention, among other "socialist evils". That terrifies them more than anything but the genie is already out of the bottle.

 

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
35. Thank you!
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 10:21 AM
Apr 2020

This is my exact thinking although you worded it much clearer that I could. Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts down.

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
14. Yes,.. what you said. Also too there maybe a major social and economic transformation that,...
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 05:44 PM
Apr 2020

... that is realized once this Covid virus thing has run its course. Hopefully many changes for the better materialize.

 

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
17. Yeah I keep hearing
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 08:56 PM
Apr 2020

Yeah I keep hearing that we can’t keep people at home because of the economy and it drives me absolutely insane.

 

ansible

(1,718 posts)
18. Hydroxychloroquine is cheap and readily available
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 08:57 PM
Apr 2020

That's pretty much the biggest thing it has going for it because anything else is going to take months at best to manufacture at great quantities. We're basically in a desperate situation with no other better choices.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
19. Where is the evidence it actually does any good?
Sun Apr 5, 2020, 08:59 PM
Apr 2020

All we have is a few of small studies that produced contradictory results.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. Don't take it. But doctors are prescribing it here and elsewhere.
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:29 AM
Apr 2020

Not sure that means a lot, since my red state had a physician elected to Congress who believes the world was created 6000 years ago.

But still, some professionals think it is better than nothing.

magicarpet

(13,941 posts)
28. Rome was not built in one day....
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:35 AM
Apr 2020

Where you from Toronto, Tokyo, or Texas ?

Are you a naysayer - like that ?

Empirical data - or lack there of.... go get it.

Empirical Sciences. An attempt to study issues closely,... looking for consistencies,...
Empirical Results.

Here help yourself.....

Estimation of Information Science & Statistics Dependences Based on Empirical Data Second Edition |/Ifldlmlf I/apmk Page 2 … Vladimir Vapnik Estimation of Dependences Based on Empirical Data Reprint of 1982 Edition Empirical Inference Science Afterword of 2006 Page 5 …
Cited by 4640 Related articles
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… FITTING EMPIRICAL DATA … Crossref. Martin Straume, Susan G. Frasier-Cadoret and Michael L. Johnson, Least-Squares Analysis of Fluorescence Data, Topics in … I. Ethylene/propylene copolymerization in gas phase, Journal of Applied Polymer Science, 80, 1, (81-114), (2001) …
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… 3-14-13 Higashigotanda Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 141-0022, Japan ISBN 978-4-431-66995-1 ISBN 978-4-431-66993-7 (eBook) DOI 10.1007/978-4-431–66993-7 Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data Empirical science of financial fluctuations: the advent of …
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kentuck

(110,950 posts)
25. I took malaria pills when I was in Vietnam...
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:21 AM
Apr 2020

They do clean you out pretty good.

If you know what I mean. Other than that, I don't recall any serious side-effects?

elleng

(130,147 posts)
27. Not much.
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 12:30 AM
Apr 2020

Dr. Murtha mentioned it's use for some, in conversation on V.P. Biden's Town Hall call Sunday.

Apparently it may be somewhat effective, sometimes.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287697296

larwdem

(757 posts)
30. I read many local
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 01:43 AM
Apr 2020

story's of ppl who got the drug and are slowly recovering. But how many were treated with the drug and died??? Not a one fucking story this is bullshit. Not telling us how many died.

 

Steelrolled

(2,022 posts)
31. My understanding is that is has promise
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 01:59 AM
Apr 2020

and we don't have many alternatives.

Of course, now that is has entered the world of politics, you will find it very hard to get unbiased information. Sadly, even journalists who believe in their hearts that they are unbiased will allow bias to enter their reporting - it has been seen in the past.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
32. There's no point in arguing with these guys
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 05:49 AM
Apr 2020

using logic and facts. IMO the best response is "you may be right" and then turn back to whatever you were doing. If you repeat it often enough, he'll eventually give up trying to persuade you, without his being insulted.

 

SlogginThroughIt

(1,977 posts)
36. Yeah you may be right.
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 10:24 AM
Apr 2020

Ha seriously though I think you are right! That’s likely the best way to handle it.

ecstatic

(32,566 posts)
33. You know, caffeine is anti-malaria and anti pneumonia as well.
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 05:59 AM
Apr 2020
Also anti-bacterial, believe it or not. I'd take my chances with a strong cup of high quality coffee every day. Probably a lot cheaper and less risk involved as well. Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.

mainer

(12,013 posts)
38. WHO is not recommending its use
Mon Apr 6, 2020, 10:26 AM
Apr 2020

This is on Medscape https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/928094#vp_2

"Despite enthusiastic endorsement by President Trump after reports of positive results from an open-label French study, hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are not currently recommended for further investigation in COVID-19 by WHO."

What is currently under trial are:

"WHO has identified a list of "promising candidates" for COVID-19 treatment. These include remdesivir (an investigational agent); lopinavir-ritonavir (approved for use in HIV) with or without interferon; investigational immunotherapies such as monoclonal and polyclonal antibodies; and convalescent sera. "

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