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Wed Apr 1, 2020, 10:41 AM

What about Covid immune response ? People who have been infected by the coronavirus .....

People who have been infected by the coronavirus and have recovered could provide invaluable antibodies for covid-19 patients and return to work.

He told Frieden, “I’m rooting for the immunity.” Frieden responded, “You can root for it, but don’t count on it.”

Immunity varies with different diseases. Frieden gave the example of an epidemic of measles that took place on one of the Faroe Islands, an archipelago two hundred miles north of Scotland, in 1846, before a vaccine was available. “Everyone got it, a hundred per cent, because it is one of the most infectious diseases,” Frieden said. After the outbreak, there were no cases of measles on the island for sixty-five years. “Then measles came back, and again everyone on the island was infected—except those over sixty-five. They were all still immune.”


https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/can-survivors-of-the-coronavirus-help-cure-the-disease-and-rescue-the-economy

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Response to magicarpet (Original post)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 10:45 AM

1. I heard there is no immunity and you can catch it again.

Anyone know if that is true or not?

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 10:52 AM

2. That would be weird, a biological marvel to say the least if true

Not discounting what you are saying, but I do want to look at the possibilities if there was no immunity from COVID.

It could mean one of several things:
* There are thousands of upon thousands of stains of COVID going on right now, that if you catch it again, it's a completely different virus. Every virus causing COVID would be different
* It has an immunosuppressant factor to it, this one's less plausible as we'd find out about that if it caused one's immune system to shut down
* The COVID-illness is not actually caused by the coronavirus. You get a bacterial infection - immune response. Flu - immune response. Plague - immune response. Envenomation from snake bite - immune response. There are things that one doesn't get stronger to with repeated exposure though, namely ionizing radiation and exposure to heavy metals

It would be horrifying and bizarre if true. Hope it's not.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 10:52 AM

3. Some (very few) people who had the disease and

recovered later (week-several weeks) tested positive again. Unknown if new infection or not fully recovered and relapsed or a false negative due to low viral load. All those companies working on a vaccine seem to think it will work.

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Response to Phoenix61 (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 11:03 AM

5. Examination of cases in China suggested that patients released as "negative"...

.. who later tested as positive were most likely released too quickly without standard confirmation of negative results. (i.e., they were not fully recovered)

I can't find the article at the moment, but that was the gist, as I recall.,

See post 4 for more.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 10:55 AM

4. Go to 10:50 in interview with Dr. Fauci

The short answer is, if you contract the infection and your body fights is off, you have immunity.

Go to 10:50 in the interview:
(The whole thing is worth viewing, but the issue of immunity is addressed at 10:50)



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Response to pat_k (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 12:04 PM

10. Thank you. Very appropriate. There are some out there that haven't obviously watched the news

or anything.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 11:59 AM

8. This morning on NPB

BBC World News said that indeed someone in China did test positive for it twice.

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Response to magicarpet (Original post)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 11:27 AM

6. This question keeps coming up again and again. Is there immunity after Covad19? YES. YES. YES.

Like the good doctor has said, and many others, YES.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 11:58 AM

7. You seem so certain,... do you have a doctorates degree in virology or are you a molecular....

.... scientist ? You seem ridgid and inflexibly set in your ways, intolerant and closed to open discussion or further explorations and quests for more knowledge.

Can't help but wonder why is that...
Do you know more than anyone else on the planet ?

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 12:03 PM

9. No I don't. I didn't claim one, but I watched several doctors online say this, word for word. You

can go out there yourself. Go ahead and call me things based upon my opinion to which I have the right to. I am simply repeating what doctors (at least two of them) have said already and yet you attack me as being ignorant. Nice. Really nice.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 12:49 PM

12. This above from someone shutting down my post with their donnie J trdump type medical knowledge.

Carry on....

Read the JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association,... open your mind and let the knowledge acquaint you with differing avenues of reseach.

It is called a Noevo/Novel Virus because it is brand new. Nobody knows jack shit about this specifically because it is BRAND NEW.

Everyone, and I mean everyone one the planet is on a sharp learning curve because they are in a quest for knowledge to hunt a solution down.

Oh, except you, you know everything about everything about this virus,... you come on other threads and shit trash other thread,... slam closed the doors of discussion and then have the audacity to whine that you are the one being picked on.

Grow up,... open your mind,... don't come shit trash my threads,.. go start your own.

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 12:31 PM

11. The JAMA says,.. the jury is still out,.. can those cured of covid get reinfected ?

The JAMA cases in China and Japan where patient cured of Covid return to the hospital reinfected.

*******

JAMA Coronavirus Bulletins

(snip JAMA Article,)


Methods
One hospitalized patient and 3 patients (all medical personnel) quarantined at home with COVID-19 were treated at Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University, Wuhan, China, from January 1, 2020, to February 15, 2020, and evaluated with real-time reverse transcriptase–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) tests for COVID-19 nucleic acid to determine if they could return to work. All the following criteria5 had to be met for hospital discharge or discontinuation of quarantine: (1) normal temperature lasting longer than 3 days, (2) resolved respiratory symptoms, (3) substantially improved acute exudative lesions on chest computed tomography (CT) images, and (4) 2 consecutively negative RT-PCR test results separated by at least 1 day.

The RT-PCR tests were performed on throat swabs following a previously described method.1 The RT-PCR test kits (BioGerm) were recommended by the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The same technician and brand of test kit was used for all RT-PCR testing reported; both internal controls and negative controls were routinely performed with each batch of tests.

Demographic information, laboratory findings, and radiological features were collected from electronic medical records. After recovery, patients and their families were contacted directly, and patients were asked to visit the hospital to collect throat swabs for the RT-PCR tests.

This study was approved by the Zhongnan Hospital of Wuhan University institutional review board and the need for informed consent was waived.

Results
All 4 patients were exposed to the novel 2019 coronavirus through work as medical professionals. Two were male and the age range was 30 to 36 years. Among 3 of the patients, fever, cough, or both occurred at onset. One patient was initially asymptomatic and underwent thin-section CT due to exposure to infected patients. All patients had positive RT-PCR test results and CT imaging showed ground-glass opacification or mixed ground-glass opacification and consolidation. The severity of disease was mild to moderate.

Antiviral treatment (75 mg of oseltamivir taken orally every 12 hours) was provided for the 4 patients. For 3 of the patients, all clinical symptoms and CT imaging abnormalities had resolved. The CT imaging for the fourth patient showed delicate patches of ground-glass opacity. All 4 patients had 2 consecutive negative RT-PCR test results. The time from symptom onset to recovery ranged from 12 to 32 days.

After hospital discharge or discontinuation of quarantine, the patients were asked to continue the quarantine protocol at home for 5 days. The RT-PCR tests were repeated 5 to 13 days later and all were positive. All patients had 3 repeat RT-PCR tests performed over the next 4 to 5 days and all were positive. An additional RT-PCR test was performed using a kit from a different manufacturer and the results were also positive for all patients. The patients continued to be asymptomatic by clinician examination and chest CT findings showed no change from previous images. They did not report contact with any person with respiratory symptoms. No family member was infected.

(end JAMA Article snip)

Much more at link below,....

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2760782

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 01:18 PM

14. You don't need a doctorate in virology or molecular biology.

You just need to have general information about how acquired immunity works. But since you're being a credentials Nazi, I teach the immune system as either part of a college biology or human anatomy and physiology class. I have a BS and MS in biology, and have 30 hours of genetics courses at the PhD level from the early 2000's. I've done both PCR and rtPCR, so I know how to interpret the text from your excerpt.

Your "know more than anyone else on the planet" bullshit is not helpful in the least. And let me return some of your nitpicking - it's "rigid", not "ridgid." See how that kind of thing feels? If you want to have a conversation, have a civilized one. Don't go all deplorable and attack someone simply because they disagree with what you want to believe.

It's very well-established scientific fact that exposure to a disease very consistently results in antibodies against that disease (as long as someone survives the initial illness), and at least partial immunity to a second illness. The idea that COVID-19 is somehow different from every other disease that has been characterized is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you don't provide anything.

I have a few things to say about the excerpt you've posted.

First, if you're going to post an excerpt from a specific paper, please provide the link that that paper and not to a review article that neither contains the information you excerpted nor contains a link to the information you excerpted. It's just common courtesy, and you should respect the authors, as well as us, enough to do so.

Second, the excerpt does not mention immunity. It says that new viral particles were found after discharge. The excerpt does not make clear whether the antiviral regimen was continued at home. Oseltamivir (which is otherwise known as Tamiflu) is a neuraminidase inhibitor, which acts to prevent viral release from previously infected cells. It does not prevent new infection of cells. Ceasing treatment could very well result in previously infected cells releasing new viral particles. Not having access to the actual paper, I can't tell exactly what was involved in the post-release quarantine. What I see suggests that Tamiflu may be a palliative that could lessen the severity of the disease if administered in early stages. However, the methodology that I can see does not constitute a valid study for establishing that.

Third, rtPCR is extremely sensitive and can result in a positive test from a very low viral load. From what I could see, there was no way to ascertain whether that viral load in those postrecovery patients could result in resumption of symptoms or being contagious.

Fourth, and most importantly, there is no mention of immune response. There is no mention of antibody titer. This means that the excerpt you provided does absolutely nothing to buttress your apparent position that COVID-19 does not provoke antibody production or immunity. The excerpt only states that new viral particles were found by rtPCR a few days later. The fact that you were apparently unaware that this excerpt does not support your position suggests that you have quite a lot to learn about how immunity works, and that you would be well-served to do more listening and less bomb-tossing.

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Response to magicarpet (Original post)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 12:54 PM

13. There was a spanish article circulating around claiming there were several strains

running around the globe. I have only heard of two.

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