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Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 02:58 PM Mar 2020

There is a sincerely held belief by some religious folks that this virus is from god and meant to

push people away from secularism and back to god.

We see pastors (and hopefully attendees) arrested for ignoring conditions and spreading the virus at church services, BUT this very act on their part could very well be seen as their ultimate religious freedom right!

I am an atheist but I have a very close relative who is EXTREMELY religious, Christian, and is NOT a part of any organized religion and has very strong feelings on that.

I asked him and he told me that while I would not like the answer, YES this is god getting people to turn away from secularism.

Now I dont want them congregating, you dont want them congregating, and in the case of many (not all) pastors like Falwell, it is ONLY about their pocketbooks, of course. But there are some who are sincere and do this for religious, not greed reasons.

I still say arrest them if they do it, but then where do we put them?

Just thought I would open this up for discussion.



BTW when he said that this was god pushing people back to him I said it sure seemed like a hellish way to do it, all the suffering of people including what will be his own family members, but he simply said it is not up to him to judge and if god wants to do it this way, so be it...

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There is a sincerely held belief by some religious folks that this virus is from god and meant to (Original Post) Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 OP
God needs to stay at least 6 feet away from me Blues Heron Mar 2020 #1
That'll get an "A-fucking-men!!" here... (n/t) Moostache Mar 2020 #4
LOL Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #6
- Rorey Mar 2020 #32
The religious folk who continue meeting in large groups will soon find themselves very close to God. tanyev Mar 2020 #2
Actually if that were all that would happen, I'd say let 'em go... Moostache Mar 2020 #10
Fucking this! rusty fender Mar 2020 #14
It is turning more people towards science i.e secularism. Cattledog Mar 2020 #3
Good point, had NOT thought of that! Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #5
I'm sure God is going to be pleased with Republican Christians killing people with their policies... WyattKansas Mar 2020 #7
True believers cant see that, they truly believe what my relative said. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #8
IMO religion is just an easy way to avoid personal responsibility and decision making. old guy Mar 2020 #9
Of course Chainfire Mar 2020 #34
I urge them to embrace it, own it HAB911 Mar 2020 #11
Why would no sincere christians not think SCantiGOP Mar 2020 #12
Because That Would Mean Accepting God Meant To Punish Them, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2020 #16
Chesterton understood much Maeve Mar 2020 #24
He Did Indeed, Ma'am The Magistrate Mar 2020 #36
Magical thinking. Belief in make believe. stopbush Mar 2020 #13
There will always be the lunatic fringe. Who cares what they "think?" MoonRiver Mar 2020 #15
Secularism, like chasing the almighty dollar? sanatanadharma Mar 2020 #17
I think the opposite. It will push them TOWARD secularism mainer Mar 2020 #18
Hitler was very sincere. Girard442 Mar 2020 #19
Unfortunately, Darwin will set the record straight very soon flibbitygiblets Mar 2020 #20
Sincere or not, FUCK THEM. spanone Mar 2020 #21
No God worth worshipping would behave like that. coti Mar 2020 #22
Yeah we know. tavernier Mar 2020 #23
I don't understand them but I wish I did. Someone has to try and get through to them. BeckyDem Mar 2020 #25
they said God made AIDS too G_j Mar 2020 #26
Well this atheist has the opposite view malaise Mar 2020 #27
It may seem heartless on my part but... The empressof all Mar 2020 #28
Yep, that's some loving god they've got there PJMcK Mar 2020 #29
I will always be an atheist, Even in my foxhole, self isolating Walleye Mar 2020 #30
If you piss on a god... hunter Mar 2020 #31
Funny how God likes to punish every one but them? How about this is tulipsandroses Mar 2020 #33
yes it very interesting how we can spin things to get the answer scarytomcat Mar 2020 #43
If they insist on exposing themselves, they should do so by volunteering to help the sick. Midnight Writer Mar 2020 #35
As a young person Wellstone ruled Mar 2020 #37
Then to add to that... Sunriser13 Mar 2020 #40
Moon shine works wonders. Wellstone ruled Mar 2020 #44
Why couldn't it be god or some other higher power that has created doc03 Mar 2020 #38
For the vast majority of the thousands of years customerserviceguy Mar 2020 #39
I want nothing to do with a God that KentuckyWoman Mar 2020 #41
If this virus is God's way of turning people away from secularism Mariana Mar 2020 #42

tanyev

(42,360 posts)
2. The religious folk who continue meeting in large groups will soon find themselves very close to God.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:06 PM
Mar 2020

Secularists who stay home will probably be OK.

Moostache

(9,895 posts)
10. Actually if that were all that would happen, I'd say let 'em go...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:17 PM
Mar 2020

But reality is they will get sick, they will infect others, especially others of the "non-bat guano huffing" variety, and people may die who do not have to die because of them.

Religious beliefs are total bullshit.
Utter, and complete bullshit.
Having imaginary conversations in your head with your invisible friend Jesus is harmless UNTIL you project it outward...and THEN, you're gonna have to answer for it.

The most "devout" believers are full of shit more than the garden variety 'go-along-to-get-along' style followers. This was ALWAYS true, but recently the GOP and Trumpers have made it blatantly clear - they do not care about their 'religion' (Jesus' message and words have LONG left their examples and they do not care about that one bit), they do not care about their 'beliefs' (sanctity of marriage, 'harm' to marriage done by homosexuals - especially when their king can be thrice married, thrice baby-daddy, they do not care about the bible (especially these tricky to name books like Two Corinthians)...

In short, someone telling me they believe is worthless....someone SHOWING me they believe and are internally consistent in those actions...now they can get an honest hearing from me...but THAT unicorn is not easy to find...

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
7. I'm sure God is going to be pleased with Republican Christians killing people with their policies...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:09 PM
Mar 2020

All these years and completely failing at protecting others from this virus.

They can lie to themselves all they want, but they know they cannot lie to God.

Keep repeating it to them and torment the hell out of them with it.
Maybe then they will have a real come to Jesus moment and see the light.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
8. True believers cant see that, they truly believe what my relative said.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:12 PM
Mar 2020

I do have respect for people who are at least consistent with their beliefs.

So I am trying to find consistency with them but it is hard; ADAMANTLY against abortion but OK with people dying from the virus...sigh, I guess I will have to keep looking, wont I!



Was truly hoping some of the DU Christians would chime in.

old guy

(3,281 posts)
9. IMO religion is just an easy way to avoid personal responsibility and decision making.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:13 PM
Mar 2020

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2020, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Chainfire

(17,308 posts)
34. Of course
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:14 PM
Mar 2020

Many people are quite willing to sacrifice logic for promise of immortality. I believe that many professed Christians are people who are merely hedging their bets. I also believe that many high profile preachers are con men who don't believe any more than I do. For if you really believed in the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth, and the God of Abraham, and pulled some of the tricks they do, they would know that they would be Hell bound.

I went to a lecture by Dr. Carl Sagan some many years ago. There was a question and answer period after the talk and a member of the audience stood and smugly asked Dr. Sagan if he believed in God. Sagan replied, "which god?" which left the questioner tongue tied.

I do know many people that I know sincerely believe and I bear them no malice. I sometimes feel a bit sorry for them. What they do, and what they think is none of my business as long as it does not interfere with my life. I don't care what people do, think, or believe as long as they leave me alone. I guess it is the old hippie coming out.

SCantiGOP

(13,856 posts)
12. Why would no sincere christians not think
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:17 PM
Mar 2020

that the plague was sent to punish the right-wing leaders in ascendancy around the world (our petty dictator just being the most powerful example) and how the evangelicals have abandoned all true teachings from the New Testament (feed the hungry, treat the sick, welcome the immigrant, give your riches to help the poor, etc.) in favor of building ever bigger temples and amassing unimaginable wealth.
If I were put in charge of a traditional version of heaven I would have a tough time deciding whom to smite first, but it surely wouldn't be a lot of unlucky, random people who just happened to breathe or touch something at the wrong time or place.
I might, however, see how long it took some investigative reporter to figure out that each of the TV preachers who died instantly of a massive aneurysm while preforming their show had just made their plea for more donations from the flock. Or, I might smite the shit out of every public leader who sincerely asks, "Can we now bow our heads in prayer?"

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
16. Because That Would Mean Accepting God Meant To Punish Them, Sir
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:22 PM
Mar 2020

Since they certain they are saved and Heaven-bound, how could that possibly be?

No, it must be somebody else, something else, God is punishing.

Something whose punishment would vindicate them, not something that woudl condemn them.


"Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. Christianity has been found difficult and not seriously tried."

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
36. He Did Indeed, Ma'am
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:44 PM
Mar 2020

I go only so far with the man, but he got off some apt and wicked lines. Another favorite I employ at times is "The poor object to being misgoverned. The rich object to being governed at all."

First encountered him through 'Father Brown' in my youth. Still dip into those on occasion. Hate the teevee show, I have seldom seen a worse botch of an old classic....

sanatanadharma

(3,639 posts)
17. Secularism, like chasing the almighty dollar?
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:38 PM
Mar 2020

Somehow I doubt that the religionists in the USA will turn away from the secular pursuits of hoarding money, wealth, racism, stupidity; nor turn away from sports, stock market, mammon, etc.

Why bother, just to become a decent human being without prejudice and ignorance?

mainer

(12,013 posts)
18. I think the opposite. It will push them TOWARD secularism
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:41 PM
Mar 2020

Once they see that religious folks who insist on meeting in crowds are dying in large numbers, it will make them re-think what their pastors told them.

flibbitygiblets

(7,220 posts)
20. Unfortunately, Darwin will set the record straight very soon
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:43 PM
Mar 2020

I only say unfortunately because there will be a lot of collateral damage.

coti

(4,612 posts)
22. No God worth worshipping would behave like that.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:45 PM
Mar 2020

Though your friend might not like that reply, you should tell them that.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
25. I don't understand them but I wish I did. Someone has to try and get through to them.
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:50 PM
Mar 2020

Its sad and most important, dangerous.

malaise

(267,823 posts)
27. Well this atheist has the opposite view
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:55 PM
Mar 2020

They need to ask themselves why their gawd would make this happen during the Chosen One's tenure and why all the snake oil salesmen and women have failed to perform their so called healing miracles. They can't even collect their tithes.

As I am replying I see the Salvation Army begging on my TV. They will not get one penny from this home.

The empressof all

(29,098 posts)
28. It may seem heartless on my part but...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:56 PM
Mar 2020

I don't really care if they gather together at this point. I would however require them to watch a video of people intubated and dying and then have them sign a waiver that would sign away their right to seek medical treatment if they get ill.

I'm sick of the stupidity.

PJMcK

(21,921 posts)
29. Yep, that's some loving god they've got there
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:58 PM
Mar 2020

The god of the Bible is a mass murderer with a fragile ego and a demanding, narcissistic personality.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Walleye

(30,723 posts)
30. I will always be an atheist, Even in my foxhole, self isolating
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 03:58 PM
Mar 2020

If I do find myself in the afterlife, I’ll walk up to god, look him straight in the eye, and tell him I was wrong. I forget who said that.

hunter

(38,264 posts)
31. If you piss on a god...
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:07 PM
Mar 2020

... they'll say, "Yeah, I can see why you did that," or they will lose their shit and kill or try to kill you.

Them that kill or try to kill you are the false gods.

tulipsandroses

(5,094 posts)
33. Funny how God likes to punish every one but them? How about this is
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:10 PM
Mar 2020

God's punishment to religious folks for turning away from what Jesus taught? Take care of the sick, the poor, the stranger. This virus has laid bare many of the faults of society.Lack of access to healthcare, people that already live in poverty and have now lost their jobs, children that were only getting meals at school and now could go hungry with schools being closed. Supporting an immoral racist man instead of standing up for the vulnerable people he seeks to punish. Now, he would allow the most vulnerable to die to boost the economy to save his presidency.

Religion has not stepped up to fight these ills. They have been too pre-occupied with abortion and LGBTQ folks. Maybe this is God's punishment for them not taking action to take care of the most vulnerable as Jesus did.

By the way, I'm not religious, its just an interesting phenomena to me that they never think that they are the ones being punished.

Their continued gathering, speaks volumes of their selfishness. Again, not quite Christ like. Social distancing is not just about you.

As far as locking them up. I disagree with that notion. I do think we should start assessing fines. First a warning. If you violate again, stiff fines.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
37. As a young person
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:47 PM
Mar 2020

in the late Forties,when our nation was enduring one type of Viral Infection are another. There were Tent Preachers running their sorry ass mouths off about how they could prevent the spread of Polio,Mumps or Whooping Cough if you gave them a few bucks for him laying his hands on you.

Funny thing,it did not work then and it will not work now.

Sunriser13

(612 posts)
40. Then to add to that...
Tue Mar 31, 2020, 01:18 AM
Mar 2020

...there were the traveling "medicine men" who were around forever - selling their "cure-all" elixirs, guaranteed to cure anything that ails ya'.

They didn't cure a damn thing, but they sure did put a pep in the step of a whole lot of church ladies...

doc03

(35,148 posts)
38. Why couldn't it be god or some other higher power that has created
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 04:47 PM
Mar 2020

the COVID-19 to rid the earth of the Trump Virus? Just sayen if we had a Democrat in the Whitehouse
you know Pat Roberson, Jim Baker and other charlatans would be saying that.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
39. For the vast majority of the thousands of years
Mon Mar 30, 2020, 06:15 PM
Mar 2020

that religion has been around, life has pretty much sucked for ordinary folks. Religion has had that long to come up with twisted explanations for why an omnipotent, all-seeing invisible skyfather can let shit happen.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
41. I want nothing to do with a God that
Tue Mar 31, 2020, 01:23 AM
Mar 2020

Would put people through flood, plagues, famine etc thinking it will make them love him more.

That is some seriously twisted abusive crap.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
42. If this virus is God's way of turning people away from secularism
Tue Mar 31, 2020, 02:31 AM
Mar 2020

it's a pretty stupid way to to it. First, God is killing mostly older people with it, who already tend to be less secular than young people. And then God is having it spread in churches. It won't take many more stories about infected congregations and dead choir members and such, before lots of people start to associate churches with disease, and act accordingly.

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