General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWearing a mask.
In the U.S., we're being told wearing a mask in public is not necessary unless your sick.
A couple months ago, I heard a professional say wearing a mask when you're healthy is not a good idea because you'd be touching your face more (to adjust it, etc). So, I've only been wearing gloves at the grocery store, pumping gas, etc.
But lately I've been hearing that wearing a mask in public is a good idea, and in fact will probably be recommended in the U.S. soon (I'm guessing when the medical community has sufficient supply).
Last night, I was reading about the 1918 pandemic in Los Angeles. Wearing a mask became a law: if you were outside without a mask, you stood the chance of being fined or arrested.
I realize we're in short supply of masks right now (for the medical field) so telling the public to wear a mask would create more of a supply issue, but if wearing a mask helps contain the virus, we should at least be aware of the dangers of not wearing a maskperhaps this would keep more people from having parties, gathering in groups, and being 100% sure to practice physical distancing.
elleng
(130,714 posts)and keep hands away from your face.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1017574123
Watch on Vimeo.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)Very nice looking and comfy. I'm proud to wear them.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)What they are saying is wrong. People who have had transplants wear masks to protect them for a few months after. I am high risk and ordered a cloth mask with filters. Is it an n95s, no, but it will still give me some protection. Remember virus particles are small but they are attached to larger particles of mucus so any type of mask will give you some protection. Last time I went to a doc they were all wearing masks. They gave me one. When I went in early February to a clinic with symptoms they were wearing masks.
I am not going out at all now but I will wear mine if I do.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)And my doc said do not feel guilty about it. Protecting yourself is a good thing. No one else is going to do it for you. Buying a cloth mask etc and filters is not depriving hcw. If you want to be as safe as possible wear one, but it has to be removed carefully and sterilized after as well. I plan to steam and wash mine / change the filter each time.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,811 posts)For what that is worth.
KentuckyWoman
(6,679 posts)RT told me bandanna 2 hair ties and coffee filter cut to size. Not PPE level by any means but 3 years he did not catch anything. Hand washing and surface cleaning along with.
If I go out I am wearing my DIY mask. If nothing else it makes people keep away.
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)You can get cloth masks which can be washed etc with a vent on amazon with changeable filters, which is what I did. My doc gave me a surgical mask when I was there. I think if you are not using it a lot you can microwave it and use again but I will use my cloth mask. Yep keeps people away.
2naSalit
(86,308 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)because they are in short supply and don't want the average person competing against health care professionals on the front lines for the limited mask supply.
FreeState
(10,569 posts)They dont compete with consumers purchasing them.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/coronavirus-3m-ceo-says-its-disappointing-to-see-n95s-at-stores.html
ProfessorGAC
(64,827 posts)It specifically says 90% of masks are made for health care folks, & critical industries like pharma, food, etc.
The 3M CEO actually says he's disappointed that those masks were on Target's shelves.
And, I fails to mention that usage rates among med professionals is higher than normal.
So in fact, consumer purchases are competing with those corporate contracts. Your own link provides the evidence.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)We don't agree. That's OK. We are not the Borg.
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)At the beginning of the freak-out, I was in Hy-Vee.
Heard a customer ask about masks. The manager said they had all been pulled from the shelves and sent to hospital's.
Kaleva
(36,241 posts)"Surgical masks as good as respirators for flu and respiratory virus protection
by UT Southwestern Medical Center"
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-09-surgical-masks-good-respirators-flu.html
"Yes, a surgical mask can help prevent the flu, Sherif Mossad, MD, an infectious disease specialist at the Cleveland Clinic, tells Health. Flu is carried in air droplets, so a mask would mechanically prevent the flu virus from reaching other people. It would work both ways, says Dr. Mossad, preventing transmission of the flu virus to others and for keeping a mask-wearer from picking up an infection.
Surgical masks to prevent the flu can be found in major drugstores and online, and yours doesn't need to be fancy to help. A simple disposable mask is fine, just be sure the packaging notes that it protects against airborne particles, Susan Besser, MD, a family medicine doctor with Mercy Personal Physicians at Overlea in Baltimore, Maryland tells Health. And splurge for a value-sized pack. Disposable is best and you should discard your mask after each use, says Dr. Besser. If a mask gets wetand it will by simply breathing into itthe effectiveness of its protective effect is reduced."
https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/surgical-mask-flu-prevention
"One study shows that when there's a sick family member in the house, other family members could cut their risk of getting sick by 60% to 80% by using face masks consistently and correctly -- in combination with frequent hand washing and avoiding close contact with the sick person."
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/swine-flu-h1n1-and-face-masks#1
"Donning a face mask either a surgical mask or a P2/N95 respirator mask (high particulate filter mask) boosts protection from severe respiratory illnesses such as influenza and SARS, say researchers from the University of New South Wales (UNSW). These masks are not necessarily the same as the dust masks that some people use when cleaning or doing construction work.
In the study, adult mask wearers in the home were four times more likely than non-wearers to be protected against respiratory viruses, including the common cold."
https://www.livescience.com/7661-masks-protect-colds-flu.html
"Not so for the World Health Organization or the Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America, the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology, and the American College of Occupational and Environmental Medicine.
They collectively recommended regular surgical masks except in high risk circumstances, such as during open suctioning of airway secretions and other procedures that could "aerosolize" the H1N1 virus."
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/infectioncontrol/16278"
"According to a study published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, families with kids who had flu-like symptoms and used the masks properly were 80% less likely to be diagnosed with the same thing.
Another study looked at 400 people who had the flu found that family members who wore a surgical mask and washed their hands reduced their chance of getting the flu by 70%.
Individual brands of masks and that sort of thing hasn't been studied, but the few studies that have looked at them do have an effect in some studies, up to 50 to 80% reduction in transmission, UW virology expert Alex Greninger said. They seem to stop large droplets, and I think the other key thing to mention with masks is that it really depends on what you're willing to wear.
Coronavirus is most commonly spread through the air by coughing or sneezing or though close personal contact, such as touching or shaking hands, according to the Washington State Department of Health.
While masks do seem promising, it's also important to utilize other preventive measures. Make sure you wash your hands often during flu season, especially if you're around others who may be sick. Also, be sure to get your annual flu shot to protect yourself and others from spreading the virus."
https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/surgical-mask-effectiveness/281-9c762e52-c2ec-4dec-b5f3-77ee833fca1e
"At the start of flu season in the last two years, participants were randomly assigned to six weeks of wearing a standard medical procedure mask alone, mask use and hand sanitizer use, or a control group with no intervention. Researchers followed students for incidence of influenza like illness symptoms, defined as cough with at least one other characteristic symptom such as fever, chills or body aches, Monto said.
From the third week on, both the mask only and mask/hand sanitizer interventions showed a significant or nearly significant reduction in the rate of influenza-like illness symptoms in comparison to the control group. The observed reduction in rate of flu-like symptoms remained even after adjusting for gender, race/ethnicity, hand washing practices, sleep quality, and flu vaccination."
https://news.umich.edu/masks-hand-washing-prevent-spread-of-flu-like-symptoms-by-up-to-50-percent/
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Masks are going to be counter productive for 3 reasons
1) The flu is transmitted as an aerosol the coronavirus isn't
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320690
That means that the main path for flu is to breath it in from fine particles that are suspended.
The coronavirus are heavy droplets and the main path is surface to hand transmission. It is true that if someone were to sneeze on you and the droplets went in your mouth you would be exposed. However if someone sneezed on you and your mouth was covered you would still be exposed because your eyes weren't covered. You will note that PPE in hospitals for the coronavirus include not only a mask but a face guard.
2) Because it is transmitted mostly by touching surfaces where the droplets have landed if the mask has received the droplets then it becomes the contaminated surface and for that reason must be discarded after it is used. Hospital protocol calls for the mask to be discarded after each patient but they are using it for each shift section (before lunch etc). In reality the mask should be discarded any time it has to be touched, after taking a drink of water for example
Most people who think masks help have a single mask that they use repeatedly. Because this inevitable results in more hand touching the mouth area to adjust the unfamiliar mask it becomes a greater risk not something that reduces it.
3) Wearing masks actually build a false sense of security. When my wife and I go to the store she takes the items off the shelf with plastic gloves and I watch her to make sure that she doesn't touch herself where she shouldn't, like the face for example.
The flu is an aerosol and the coronavirus,in its natural state is not an aerosol although it can travel through the air to drop on a surface.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/face-masks-hand-washing-coronavirus-protection-20200304.html
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)then the mask will prevent the droplets from getting to you. This is MUCH more effective than raising an elbow, because there is no time lag. Many sneezers or coughers don't get enough warning to cover their face in time.
We ALL would benefit if everyone were wearing masks, because people can have covid19 and not feel sick. This time of year, many people have allergic sneezes and coughs. How would they know if they were in the early states of covid19 on top of the allergies?
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Kaleva
(36,241 posts)"WHO has clarified that COVID-19 doesn't seem to be capable of spreading through the air over distances more than about three feet. "
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/world-health-organisation-clarifies-covid-19-is-not-an-airborne-disease-shares-precautionary-measures/ar-BB11R7hR
When I go out to the stores once a week, it's impossible to maintain a distance of 6 feet with others or even 3 feet because I meet others in the aisles and then there's the cashier.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)move to the location of the previous person, and where their droplets are still floating.
Kaleva
(36,241 posts)masks can be effective.
womanofthehills
(8,657 posts)Dr. Dena Grayson
@DrDenaGrayson
Outbreak of #COVID19 in a #WA choir suggests that #coronavirus can be *transmitted via microscopic aerosols*, in addition to much larger respiratory droplets from coughs or sneezes.
Of 60 members: 2 died, 3 in hospital,45 tested positive/have symptoms.
Friends, all previous guidance was that this enveloped #coronavirus spread via respiratory droplets (secretions from your nose via cough, sneeze, touch).
Aerosols can come through normal talking (singing makes MORE), meaning it spreads MUCH more easily.
womanofthehills
(8,657 posts)LizBeth
(9,952 posts)dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)Surgeon General stood up there and said that. I knew better, other countries weren't giving their people that kind of piss poor advice. They should have just said it was due to the shortage and healthcare workers needed them desperately.
They will have to backtrack on that here soon, just like their ridiculous but the flu narrative.
KewlKat
(5,624 posts)PM 2.5 filters. The filters are readily available and I should have them this week. I have elderly relatives and a spouse that has some serious health issues i hope to protect.
The only decision that Im trying to make is do I make them tie or use elastic? I dont think theyd like the ones around the ears so Im going to make them go around the back of the head. Ill make them some of each so they have options.
My family is in the Midwest so I cant try them on, etc. Ive been ordering their groceries and meals online and Im finding that is becoming more popular as things worsen so I now have to plan their orders a week out due to booking deliveries are filling up quickly.
I believed that in the beginning no need to wear masks. Now not so much. Take what ever process make you feel safe.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Masks are going to be counter productive for 3 reasons
1) The flu is transmitted as an aerosol the coronavirus isn't
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320690
That means that the main path for flu is to breath it in from fine particles that are suspended.
The coronavirus are heavy droplets and the main path is surface to hand transmission. It is true that if someone were to sneeze on you and the droplets went in your mouth you would be exposed. However if someone sneezed on you and your mouth was covered you would still be exposed because your eyes weren't covered. You will note that PPE in hospitals for the coronavirus include not only a mask but a face guard.
2) Because it is transmitted mostly by touching surfaces where the droplets have landed if the mask has received the droplets then it becomes the contaminated surface and for that reason must be discarded after it is used. Hospital protocol calls for the mask to be discarded after each patient but they are using it for each shift section (before lunch etc). In reality the mask should be discarded any time it has to be touched, after taking a drink of water for example
Most people who think masks help have a single mask that they use repeatedly. Because this inevitable results in more hand touching the mouth area to adjust the unfamiliar mask it becomes a greater risk not something that reduces it.
3) Wearing masks actually build a false sense of security. When my wife and I go to the store she takes the items off the shelf with plastic gloves and I watch her to make sure that she doesn't touch herself where she shouldn't, like the face for example.
The flu is an aerosol and the coronavirus,in its natural state is not an aerosol although it can travel through the air to drop on a surface.
https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/face-masks-hand-washing-coronavirus-protection-20200304.html
honest.abe
(8,610 posts)In fact in the second article it says this..
WePurrsevere
(24,259 posts)https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/20/sars-cov-2-survive-on-surfaces/
According to a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, can live in the air and on surfaces between several hours and several days. The study found that the virus is viable for up to 72 hours on plastics, 48 hours on stainless steel, 24 hours on cardboard, and 4 hours on copper. It is also detectable in the air for three hours.
Raine
(30,540 posts)I didn't realize I touched it so much until I tried to stop. I think wearing a mask if it did nothing else would remind me not to touch my face.
BigmanPigman
(51,564 posts)"Why Telling People They Dont Need Masks Backfired"
*I have only gone out about 3 times in over 3 weeks and I wore gloves and a mask each time. I have not seen anyone else wear either though. I recycle them. I figure that if I use them once every month the virus (if any has contaminated them) will have died by then. I have a few masks and a few pairs of the gloves (I save stuff).
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Ive done a lot of research on that flu pandemic, but missed that.
This is interesting.
C Moon
(12,208 posts)progree
(10,889 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 29, 2020, 07:20 AM - Edit history (1)
masks when out in public. I know that's not the only reason for their success, but anything that cuts down on the amount of cough and sneeze droplets emitted is a plus. It doesn't have to be perfect to be an improvement.
I'll take the practices and recommendations of countries that have greatly reduced their rate of rise over some message board rando regurgitating some garbage scraped off the Internet any day. I don't doubt that one can find on the Internet all kinds of excuses for not wearing masks, and why them thar Asiatics are a bunch of delusional ignoramuses.
ProfessorGAC
(64,827 posts)...institute strict & enforceable stay at home orders? If so, how do we assign cause to effect?
progree
(10,889 posts)more than the recommendations and practices of countries that are far less successful in bending the curve.
I read that China tried home self-quarantine at first but that didn't work. They found a high rate of infection among household members of a quarantined person. So they quarantined them in whatever makeshift shelters they could come up with and strictly kept them away from family members (and other non-infected people, except for trained people covered head to toe in protective covering). That may be by far the biggest factor in my mind.
I haven't heard of similar details from the other Asian countries on the quarantining aspect.
ProfessorGAC
(64,827 posts)I'm not as sure as you that the masks are that useful unless, of course, on is doing something like mass transit, or a job that requires mass interaction with people they wouldn't know. (Grocery store cashier, for instance.)
For people like my wife & me, we're interacting so little outside the house, & strictly following the 6' thing, I think it best to leave the masks for people who absolutely need them.
progree
(10,889 posts)ProfessorGAC
(64,827 posts)Simply wrapping a towel around one's face would seem to be pretty useful, and the towel can be washed.
honest.abe
(8,610 posts)Clearly it depends on the situation, the type of face mask and how the person is using it but in general it has to help. I understand that we dont want people to hoard them but we also shouldnt tell people not to use them when its fairly obvious it helps reduce the spread of the disease.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
soryang
(3,299 posts)That's why doctors wear them. Nothing is foolproof. Trying to convince people they aren't effective is a post hoc rationalization for failure to prepare for the epidemic.
kentuck
(111,051 posts)progree
(10,889 posts)1. Get rid of the question mark and everything after it:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOxSqVXQAEN4pB
2. and then append the jpg in the format statement after it (preceded by a period).
v-I put xxxx in front of this to keep it from displaying the graph
xxxxttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUOxSqVXQAEN4pB.jpg
but here it is with the proper https: beginning
kentuck
(111,051 posts)honest.abe
(8,610 posts)But sure gives a good argument for using them.
catsudon
(839 posts)anyrate, taiwan have a national mask team that was form quickly and they sourced and put together machines in a few weeks to start producing masks . there is no shortage now since it was rationed, and tied to your national health card.
you can buy the cheapest masks in the world in taiwan.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3883778
honest.abe
(8,610 posts)bamagal62
(3,244 posts)If anyone says otherwise, they are not being truthful. Thats why nurses and doctors wear them. I think wed see a big difference in spread if we all had access to masks. Living through SARS in Hong Kong, we all wore masks. Once allowed to return to school,
My kids took their temps each morning and wore a mask to school. Look at the Czech Republic. Theyve flattened the curve because theyve made masks compulsory. Weve just been told it doesnt help because we have a shortage. Its too late for us now, as our medical workers need them most. When this is all over, everyone should have them in their first aid kit.
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)Initial phase, where we are now. Message that masks do not help. They probably help a little, but if someone coughs next to you on a bus, in a bar, without a mask on, anything short of an N95 will be of limited use. Message is needed to prevent people thinking that wearing a 'mask' protects them, and they carry on with contact (possible infection events) as before.
Also, the medical community has a greater need for any available masks at this point.
Management phase, six? eight? twelve? weeks from now. Message that masks need to be worn, by everyone, when six foot rule cannot be maintained. Masks are most effective for limiting the spread (throw) of a cough. Ergo why current recommendations are to wear a mask if you are showing infection and have to go out. If everyone is wearing masks, it has to help. Not enough for the phase we are in now, but for the management phase, it will help.
Which is why the management phase cannot commence until the following three tools are available in adequate quantity: 1) masks, 2) testing (Korea model), 3) the 'public health corps' to pursue contract tracing, screening, and facilitation of testing (Korea model).
Kaleva
(36,241 posts)Everything else, social distancing, disinfecting high touch items, wearing of masks, properly washing hands, disinfecting all items brought into the home and such reduce the chances of of being infected but do not offer 100% protection. If one does all the preceding, the chances of being infected are much lower then if one does only a few of the measures.
Wearing of a mask is just on tool in the tool box.
C Moon
(12,208 posts)Demsrule86
(68,455 posts)and suits and gloves as well...we have a respirator mask...I have worn one the entire time...if medical people wear one to prevent infection, it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't protect me.