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Atticus

(15,124 posts)
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:39 PM Jan 2020

As a gray-haired white man with some familiarity with firearms, today's gathering in Richmond,

Virginia is embarrassing. It would be giving these misfits too much credit to call them "punks". They are vacuous strutters snarling practiced false talking points before breaking into ear-to-ear grins when someone admires their penis substitute.

I did not see one weapon carried at this "rally" that was not designed to kill PEOPLE. There were no bird guns; no bolt action deer rifles. There were, however, plenty of "mow 'em down" pieces.

And, what can one say about the "GI Joe" costumes"? Lots of camo; bullet-proof vests; bandoliers; Kevlar helmets and, of course, assorted "edged weapons". Several of these "warriors", however, could barely fit into there "can't see me suits" due to the extra fifty pounds or so of belly they were carrying in addition to their weapons.

All in all, these people sucked big time. And, since nearly all of the idiots were white men, I felt the need to state my hope that they will not be considered representative of the rest of us.

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As a gray-haired white man with some familiarity with firearms, today's gathering in Richmond, (Original Post) Atticus Jan 2020 OP
Thanks Atticus saidsimplesimon Jan 2020 #1
The dress code, apparently, was to situate the event on MLK day. DemocracyMouse Jan 2020 #55
One article on this gathering soldierant Jan 2020 #123
They definitely weren't bird hunters and hobbyists. C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #2
Those are the dangerous ones. Aussie105 Jan 2020 #6
Impotence. C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #14
If they're going to BE impotent... robbob Jan 2020 #92
Probably more than a little truth in that joke. calimary Jan 2020 #126
A bunch of chickenshit snowflakes who are so perpetually fearful The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2020 #3
Yes Ahpook Jan 2020 #36
It was like Comic Con for the MAGA crowd. dewsgirl Jan 2020 #4
they're gun humping COWARDS Skittles Jan 2020 #5
But, it appears to have been a peaceful gathering. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #7
Klan members, Nazis, 3%ers, unorganized racists, etc., is not a peaceful rally. Hoyt Jan 2020 #11
I've seen no reports of violence. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #12
Intimidation on MLK day by a bunch of ignorant white wing racist gun-humpers Hoyt Jan 2020 #18
Yet no violence. SQUEE Jan 2020 #24
Klan/Nazi/3%er rallies on this day may not be violence/intimidation to gunners, but it is to me and Hoyt Jan 2020 #35
I saw very little representation of the people you BELIEVE to be behind this there. SQUEE Jan 2020 #41
Didn't see any of those you listed, although I wasn't there protesting on MLK with a bunch of white Hoyt Jan 2020 #46
Again, thank the state of Virginia for the date. SQUEE Jan 2020 #47
You're fucking joking...right? paleotn Jan 2020 #50
See, toxic. SQUEE Jan 2020 #51
A simple question: who is asking you to "disarm"? You don't need a 50 cal. Barrett or Atticus Jan 2020 #94
Really? AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #112
What they represent is violent and sick.... paleotn Jan 2020 #49
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #53
S P O T O N Cosmocat Jan 2020 #33
It was Lobby Day...set by the State of Virgina....MLK happened to be the same day. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #101
No one made the losers show up with their racist, gun-stroking BS. It was not mandatory. Hoyt Jan 2020 #104
They only get ONE Lobby day per yr...not mandatory but time sensative. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #105
The 10 white wingers behind them are likely racists, just waiting for a reason to shoot. Hoyt Jan 2020 #108
Tryin' way too hard dude....you have no clue what the people behind think. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #111
No, that man and other 4 like him yesterday are telling white wing gun-humpers to screw themselves. Hoyt Jan 2020 #117
I think its worse than that - one group of PoC being interviewed had MAGA hats...all is lost! jmg257 Jan 2020 #118
Yeah...keep thinkin' it .....you're a funny guy.... AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #119
Do you have a cite for that? sl8 Jan 2020 #107
I do not....I mistakenly thought VCDL organised on a day set by the state of Va. AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #113
No worries. sl8 Jan 2020 #114
Lobby Days are scheduled by the State Legislature in Texas yellowdogintexas Jan 2020 #121
Interesting, thanks. sl8 Jan 2020 #129
Perhaps you missed the numerous reports of arrests of people who planned Haggis for Breakfast Jan 2020 #43
They didn't have plans to peaceably assemble. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #59
Weren't those dirtbags arrested out of state...and 1 was a Canadian(yes) AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #106
Yes, very fine people. Earth Bound Misfit Jan 2020 #27
Now that's a bridge too far. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #58
their bridge or yours? ramen Jan 2020 #63
Suggested reading: U.S. Constitution, 1st Amendment Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #64
It's my favorite part. ramen Jan 2020 #78
I do azureblue Jan 2020 #90
100% agree, this is privilege in motion. ramen Jan 2020 #116
Really..."They should have been arrested, but since they are white, they get a pass." AncientGeezer Jan 2020 #122
Orange shiticus fits in perfectly. BlancheSplanchnik Jan 2020 #80
Phew. Thank god that this particular rally of morons was peaceful. ramen Jan 2020 #62
You seem impressed... tenderfoot Jan 2020 #65
I am. We know there are nutjobs looking for excuses to terrorize. Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #66
I don't recall seeing much of a law enforcement presence... tenderfoot Jan 2020 #67
the emergency ban resulted from law enforcement intel Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #68
I saw lots of LEOs, including a few uniformed idiots who joined the gun fetishists. nt Atticus Jan 2020 #77
One pack of firecrackers The Wizard Jan 2020 #76
WTF? No Codpieces?! maxrandb Jan 2020 #8
Yah, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"..... sprinkleeninow Jan 2020 #23
White wing racists. I doubt gunz were the real attraction. Hoyt Jan 2020 #9
Self-defense, to the point of killing aggressors, is a legitimate reason to own a gun. aikoaiko Jan 2020 #10
They make sense if you are not disingenuous. nt Atticus Jan 2020 #21
Let's put a slightly different way metalbot Jan 2020 #32
Gee, I guess you are right. The constitution doesn't even mention the word "militia", does it? Atticus Jan 2020 #48
The whole point of the second amendment.... reACTIONary Jan 2020 #56
LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Jan 2020 #124
"A Well-regulated Militia" ... Maine-i-acs Jan 2020 #13
+1,000 nt B Stieg Jan 2020 #16
The Second Amendment in clear language. Beartracks Jan 2020 #25
A "Well regulated militia" was needed to round up runaway slaves. No other purpose at the time... AZ8theist Jan 2020 #54
Except defending against indigenous attacks and British oppression. Maine-i-acs Jan 2020 #57
You should read the Constitution again... jmg257 Jan 2020 #81
I have read the Constitution. Have you read The Fugitive Slave Clause? AZ8theist Jan 2020 #125
As mentioned above - agree slaves was PART of Militia role. jmg257 Jan 2020 #128
Honey, does this holster make me look fat? spike jones Jan 2020 #15
Yes!!!! Butterflylady Jan 2020 #34
Malcolm Nance said it best Docreed2003 Jan 2020 #17
K and R. warmfeet Jan 2020 #19
The Darwin Award March Perseus Jan 2020 #20
I get my 1911 A1 Colt 45 on Thursday. SCVDem Jan 2020 #22
I had to use a firearm for it's intended purpose today gay texan Jan 2020 #28
I hope for only paper SCVDem Jan 2020 #38
Well, certainly present company excepted, Atticus. PatrickforO Jan 2020 #26
typically most of the giun nuts are just weissmam Jan 2020 #29
Protesting laws that you don't like with firearms says a lot about their belief in the Constitution. Eko Jan 2020 #30
Thank you relayerbob Jan 2020 #31
I'd say that they are a group of wanna be soldiers. Opel_Justwax Jan 2020 #37
Who would run like hell SCVDem Jan 2020 #42
My righty buds post the same two pics 90-percent Jan 2020 #39
The new face of the NRA :-) The Mouth Jan 2020 #120
Post removed Post removed Jan 2020 #40
You realize this is a right-wing meme targeting Michael Moore, right? AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #69
You can't be serious Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2020 #70
That is Michael Moore's head photoshopped onto some overweight 'tacticool' guy. AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #71
Oh spare me. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2020 #72
Ignore all you want. That is Michael Moore's head. You are peddling a right wing meme in your glee AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #73
Mall Ninjas n/t JBoy Jan 2020 #44
if they want to play military personnel, then let there be a draft and let these people get AllaN01Bear Jan 2020 #45
They're a joke. MontanaFarmer Jan 2020 #52
Rec'd for 'penis substitute' Mersky Jan 2020 #60
And these people have the weapons! Wawannabe Jan 2020 #61
... dustyscamp Jan 2020 #74
Those are such radical ideas! PJMcK Jan 2020 #79
For an interesting historical perspective mnhtnbb Jan 2020 #75
Cosplay for morons. Liberal In Texas Jan 2020 #82
There were quite a few minority groups represented WVJoe Jan 2020 #83
So what proportion do you think they made up? I sure didn't see any on the news ... marble falls Jan 2020 #84
No WVJoe Jan 2020 #85
So these "protester" were a bunch of marginal hayseeds? They really don't represent the majority ... marble falls Jan 2020 #87
Not sure what you're getting at... WVJoe Jan 2020 #89
Everybody deserves a right to say, but not everything a marginal group (gun owners) ... marble falls Jan 2020 #93
I don't think this is a safe line of rationale. AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #96
You had me until "RW media". I think the coverage of this was too low key but was ... marble falls Jan 2020 #97
The right wing IS crowing that. AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #99
We agree. marble falls Jan 2020 #103
Conservative leaning news made a point to showcase a variety of minorities at the rally. AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #95
A show case of a hand full in a crowd of 15,000+ people who look exactly like me. marble falls Jan 2020 #98
I would say, from what I saw, the crowd was overwhelmingly white and male. AtheistCrusader Jan 2020 #100
No, but my claim is few enough to count as none. You and I are realists. marble falls Jan 2020 #102
That's one. marble falls Jan 2020 #88
+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2020 #86
I imagine a lot of people in Yugoslavia in 1991, heckles65 Jan 2020 #91
in a sane society they would all be in PRISON samir.g Jan 2020 #109
Gun rally Rogerpatterson Jan 2020 #110
Its good to know that all these fat, hayseed, costumed punks are jmg257 Jan 2020 #115
They paid for their cammo tazkcmo Jan 2020 #127

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
1. Thanks Atticus
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:44 PM
Jan 2020

The dress code looked like someone had been shopping for costumes in an Army surplus store.

DemocracyMouse

(2,275 posts)
55. The dress code, apparently, was to situate the event on MLK day.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:29 PM
Jan 2020

The gun lobby is dressing itself in MLK Day in order to send the message that "Blacks beware."

I am apalled. This country is a piece of trash until it deaks with this unrelenting Nazism.

soldierant

(6,647 posts)
123. One article on this gathering
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:22 PM
Jan 2020

contained a pointed quotation from Driftglass -

"[W]hite supremacy in America has always been about the Almighty God of Jefferson Davis, Strom Thurmond and George Wallace locked in mortal combat with the Almighty God of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.

"In other words kids, for Nathan Bedford Forrest’s Incel Irregulars, and roughly 60 million Republican supporters of Donald Trump, this is a holy war.

"And holy wars do not have a history of ending well.”

C_U_L8R

(44,889 posts)
2. They definitely weren't bird hunters and hobbyists.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:45 PM
Jan 2020

It looked like a bunch of over-privileged lardasses whining about their expensive death toys while playing dress-up in pathetic faux army gear. Grow up. Geez.

Aussie105

(5,211 posts)
6. Those are the dangerous ones.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:56 PM
Jan 2020

Don't set them off. Don't threaten their self declared feeling of importance.

robbob

(3,514 posts)
92. If they're going to BE impotent...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:26 AM
Jan 2020

they want to LOOK impotent!

Sorry...punch line from an old joke...

calimary

(80,693 posts)
126. Probably more than a little truth in that joke.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:39 PM
Jan 2020

WHY does somebody want to amass an arsenal of massacre machines like that? Are they going to war? Are they ready to go on offense? Do they think the dreaded “black helicopters” are on the way to GIT ‘em!?

Gotta say to these jerks - doesn’t matter how many guns you’ve got. You’re no match for the 82nd Airborne.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,267 posts)
3. A bunch of chickenshit snowflakes who are so perpetually fearful
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:46 PM
Jan 2020

that they think they have to take an AR-15 with them to go grocery shopping.

Ahpook

(2,747 posts)
36. Yes
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:37 PM
Jan 2020

Fucking wimps!

My dad was petrified to go anywhere without his pistol. When I lived in DC he wanted to come visit me, but said he is packing a pistol because you know, all the "problems" there. Code words!!!!

It must super suck to go through life that terrified of everything

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
12. I've seen no reports of violence.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:20 PM
Jan 2020

Even if the crowd consisted of only those groups you named, which is not certain, even deplorables have the right to peaceably assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
18. Intimidation on MLK day by a bunch of ignorant white wing racist gun-humpers
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:40 PM
Jan 2020

is not peaceful, anyway you cut it.

SQUEE

(1,315 posts)
24. Yet no violence.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:04 PM
Jan 2020

I was assured there was no way this could happen without bloodshed.

Maybe talk to the people of VA for choosing the date.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
35. Klan/Nazi/3%er rallies on this day may not be violence/intimidation to gunners, but it is to me and
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:35 PM
Jan 2020

I suspect most here.

SQUEE

(1,315 posts)
41. I saw very little representation of the people you BELIEVE to be behind this there.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:43 PM
Jan 2020

You're narrative is fading Hoyt.

Pink Pistols, JPFO and even Antifa vocally supported, and marched to support our freedoms. Freedom from armed robbers, as well as racist and homophobic nut jobs in the government.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
46. Didn't see any of those you listed, although I wasn't there protesting on MLK with a bunch of white
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:02 PM
Jan 2020

wingers.

?crop=4804,2703,x0,y400&width=1320&height=744&format=pjpg&auto=webp

SQUEE

(1,315 posts)
47. Again, thank the state of Virginia for the date.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:07 PM
Jan 2020

I wish I had you amazing talent on judging race, religion and orientation from a screen shot, how do you do it?
Perhaps your previous proffesion gave you special insight?
Democrats own guns Hoyt, even Liberals own guns Hoyt. Your false narrative and decisive ideas are not only divisive, but toxic, I have never advocated NOT voting Democratic Party because my own personal fears.

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
50. You're fucking joking...right?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:15 PM
Jan 2020

Right?

Toxic? White jackasses with shootin' irons coupled with the idear dat they a gonna take on da govumunt if they try and take dem guns.

SQUEE

(1,315 posts)
51. See, toxic.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:21 PM
Jan 2020

And wonderful regional bigotry.

Think what you want, but you'll not convince me to disarm, no more trains for my family, or yours. Thank you for your calm and rational response.

Atticus

(15,124 posts)
94. A simple question: who is asking you to "disarm"? You don't need a 50 cal. Barrett or
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:39 AM
Jan 2020

an AR-15 with a 30, 50 or 200 round magazine to "defend" yourself. Or, do you?

paleotn

(17,778 posts)
49. What they represent is violent and sick....
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:13 PM
Jan 2020

No different than "peaceful" nazis marching through Skokie. It's a mentality that allows Newtown, Stoneman and Columbine to occur as simply the price innocent children have to pay so they can stroke their cold steel manhood. It shows an entire segment of our population has deep seeded psychological issues, that if not addressed through legislation and mental health services, will mean MORE Newtowns, Stonemans and Columbines. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of these weak, jackass, mother fuckers. And don't give me this personal protection horseshit. They're about as likely to shoot themselves or a family member as confront an "armed robber". So, I'm particularly tired of their apologists. Easy to be an apologist when it's not YOUR 6 year old lying in a pool of their own blood in an elementary school class.

Response to paleotn (Reply #49)

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
33. S P O T O N
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:31 PM
Jan 2020

The whole guns rights thing has ALWAYS been an intimidation campaign.

Today was a big ass intimidation rally with a FU cherry on top by doing it on MLK day.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
101. It was Lobby Day...set by the State of Virgina....MLK happened to be the same day.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:58 PM
Jan 2020

What about the AA 2A supporters that were there? You know they were there also.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
105. They only get ONE Lobby day per yr...not mandatory but time sensative.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:51 PM
Jan 2020

Nobody made them show up...BUT...they had the Right to show up per Virginia law.

These guys attending Lobby day are racists....I didn't know that. You know I have more AA attendee pictures
?w=1200&h=675&ixlib=react-8.6.4

You know I have more AA attendee pictures

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
111. Tryin' way too hard dude....you have no clue what the people behind think.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:46 PM
Jan 2020

You're the 1 that locks doors to keep cops out. You admitted that.

Racist...this guy?????

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
117. No, that man and other 4 like him yesterday are telling white wing gun-humpers to screw themselves.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 04:36 PM
Jan 2020

I applaud them for standing up to the militias, 3%ers, NAZIs, racist groups, masked dumbf#%ks and other gun-strokers, protesting on MLK's Day.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
118. I think its worse than that - one group of PoC being interviewed had MAGA hats...all is lost!
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 04:41 PM
Jan 2020
 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
119. Yeah...keep thinkin' it .....you're a funny guy....
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 04:43 PM
Jan 2020

It didn't go as you hoped it would....we know that.
This is a saver thread.....like the other.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
113. I do not....I mistakenly thought VCDL organised on a day set by the state of Va.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 03:12 PM
Jan 2020

It's an annual deal by VCDL.....that's my f'up.

sl8

(13,584 posts)
114. No worries.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 03:20 PM
Jan 2020

Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 08:15 AM - Edit history (1)

Before even reading your post, I'd spent about 30 minutes searching for information on Lobby Day in Virginia. I didn't come up with anything really definitive.

Thanks for the response.

yellowdogintexas

(22,114 posts)
121. Lobby Days are scheduled by the State Legislature in Texas
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 05:08 PM
Jan 2020

Mostly we get to visit our reps and receive recognition by the House and Senate. Lots of picture, some speeches etc

Haggis for Breakfast

(6,831 posts)
43. Perhaps you missed the numerous reports of arrests of people who planned
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:49 PM
Jan 2020

to commit serious violence. Thankfully, police were tipped off about a number of small groups, including one who had plans to shoot from several different directions to cause chaos and a stampede, then pick off people one by one.

Sometimes, it's not what WE read, but what has happened behind the scenes due to good law enforcement detection and observation of dangerous people. And tips from the community.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
59. They didn't have plans to peaceably assemble.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:10 AM
Jan 2020

Good job by law enforcement.

Those who intend to commit violence forfeit their rights. Those who intend to protest peacefully do not.

These are true whether we agree with the protesters or not.

azureblue

(2,129 posts)
90. I do
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:19 AM
Jan 2020

If this group was black, you know they would all shot / beaten / arrested, etc. This group is made up of terrorists - that is why they were strutting around with their toys - to scare people. They should have been arrested, but since they are white, they get a pass.

ramen

(783 posts)
116. 100% agree, this is privilege in motion.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 03:46 PM
Jan 2020

Imagine if the group were of any color at all.. I would anticipate very different results. No argument there. If you think I am defending these 'protesters' then let me assure you that I am not.

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
122. Really..."They should have been arrested, but since they are white, they get a pass."
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 05:26 PM
Jan 2020



I have many more attendees that weren't "white" you know, got a pass.

ramen

(783 posts)
62. Phew. Thank god that this particular rally of morons was peaceful.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:38 AM
Jan 2020

Otherwise, we might have to acknowledge that their ideology is based solely in racist fearmongering garbage cloaked in states' rights and misappriated originalism. Close one!

tldr: fuck these people. a lynch mob without a noose is still a lynch mob.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
66. I am. We know there are nutjobs looking for excuses to terrorize.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:52 AM
Jan 2020

The fact that this gathering of armed protesters went full course without a mass murder or attempted murder is a welcome surprise. I think it is safe to assume that the good people of Virginia are relieved to have not had a repeat of Charlottesville.

Law enforcement prepared and acted.

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
67. I don't recall seeing much of a law enforcement presence...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:02 AM
Jan 2020

must have been because of all the white angry men that attended. They were afraid they'd mistake one of their own as one of the participants had a fire fight broken out.

Glad you don't have to worry about getting a background check. Happy fearing.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
68. the emergency ban resulted from law enforcement intel
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:09 AM
Jan 2020

You may want to look around for other reports of some violent nutjobs arrested before they could get to the state. There have been threads by DUers in Virginia. Also, above, there is a reference to arrests in the post: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12890847

Why would I "worry about getting a background check"? What should I be "happy fearing"? I don't understand you.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
10. Self-defense, to the point of killing aggressors, is a legitimate reason to own a gun.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:12 PM
Jan 2020

You might say the basic design of the AR15 was created for war. Yes it was

So was the pump-action or autoloading shotgun you use to shoot ducks.

So was the bolt-action rifle used to shoot deer.

The distinctions you're making just don't make sense.

metalbot

(1,058 posts)
32. Let's put a slightly different way
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:29 PM
Jan 2020

There's absolutely no constitutional protection of hunting. It would be Constitutional for hunting to be outlawed in every state and on every piece of land owned by the federal government. Even if an individual state had some constitutional protection, the federal government could certainly use the same argument used by Wickard v Filburn to act nationally.

So what would be the relevance to a bunch of guys showing up with bird guns and hunting rifles?

The whole point of the second amendment related to the need for a civilian populace (with or without the supporting concept of a militia depending on how you choose to read the amendment) to kill PEOPLE, or at least to have the threat of killing people as a credible counter to other people who were armed.


Atticus

(15,124 posts)
48. Gee, I guess you are right. The constitution doesn't even mention the word "militia", does it?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:10 PM
Jan 2020

Oh---wait-------

reACTIONary

(5,749 posts)
56. The whole point of the second amendment....
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:53 PM
Jan 2020

.... was to prevent the federal government from establishing a standing army as the sole defense of the nation. As it turned out, however, a standing professional army is the sole practical defense of the nation and, de facto, the only defense of the nation.

An armed citizenry is a quaint, obsolete ideological obsession, that was almost obsolete before the bill of rights was even ratified.

Maine-i-acs

(1,496 posts)
13. "A Well-regulated Militia" ...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:23 PM
Jan 2020

Too many People who love the second amendment cannot respect the FIRST FOUR WORDS of it ...

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
25. The Second Amendment in clear language.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:06 PM
Jan 2020

The 2nd Amendment is kind of written a little funny; re-phrasing with "because" helps out a lot:

"Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

The Founding Fathers led with the importance of having a well-regulated militia.
The purpose of the Amendment is to ensure the country has that militia, not to ensure that each citizen can have a gun -- otherwise they would have led with that part of the sentence instead of the other way around. At the time, the country did not have a standing army, but now and for a long time we have had such an army -- a "well-regulated militia" -- so the purpose of the Amendment has been fulfilled. Restrictions on private gun ownership, whether in terms of types of weapons, or how and when they are obtained, or whether each and every citizen of "the people" is eminently and permanently eligible for gun ownership, can be implemented -- and probably should be, for the security of the people -- without violating the spirit of intent of the Amendment.

Just my two cents.

==============

Maine-i-acs

(1,496 posts)
57. Except defending against indigenous attacks and British oppression.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:54 PM
Jan 2020

Slavery was bad.
Genocide against the indigenous peoples was bad.
But we were also under the thumb of a foreign entity at the time.

Colonists needed to muster for their common defense and also wanted to keep track of where the muskets and powder were.

My home city was burned to the ground, once by indigenous peoples led by the French, and secondly by General Mowatt's ships. (the third by a rogue fireworks display).

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
81. You should read the Constitution again...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:20 AM
Jan 2020

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States..."

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Of course putting down slave insurrections were considered an important function, one very much discussed in the ratification debates in states like VA, but the Militias were VITAL - the people, armed by themselves, and uniformly well-regulated - were THE front line of defense for securing the guarantees made in the Constitution, all in the hope in minimizing the need and pretext for large standing armies. Washington petitioned the 1st congresses numerous times to come up with Militia Acts.

Also of course all this intent in NO way resemble the clowns we saw yesterday all proud of their private militias and ridiculous riot gear.

On edit - the Militia Acts may help too:

"That whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion from any foreign nation or Indian tribe, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, to call forth such number of the militia of the state or states most convenient to the place of danger or scene of action as he may judge necessary to repel such invasion, and to issue his orders for that purpose, to such officer or officers of the militia as he shall think proper; and in case of an insurrection in any state, against the government thereof, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, on application of the legislature of such state, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) to call forth such number of the militia of any other state or states, as may be applied for, or as he may judge sufficient to suppress such insurrection."

That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, the same being notified to the President of the United States, by an associate justice or the district judge, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed"

AZ8theist

(5,335 posts)
125. I have read the Constitution. Have you read The Fugitive Slave Clause?
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:28 PM
Jan 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_Slave_Clause

Reading the document is one thing, understanding the history at the time is another. The south was unable to control their slave population (which far outnumbered the slave holders) such that many compromises were made in order to get ratification. One being the use of militias.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
128. As mentioned above - agree slaves was PART of Militia role.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:14 PM
Jan 2020

Debates say as much.
There was much more for them to do. And they were used in those other roles, by Washington for instance.

Thanks - I’ll read what you posted!

spike jones

(1,654 posts)
15. Honey, does this holster make me look fat?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:31 PM
Jan 2020

[link:&exph=400&expw=600&q=fat+gun+owner+picture+hostler&selectedindex=9&qpvt=fat+gun+owner+picture+hostler&ajaxhist=0&vt=0|

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
19. K and R.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:46 PM
Jan 2020

Pathetic, posturing pustules. They are nothing but pimples on the buttocks of humanity. Time to lance, and drain that pus.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
22. I get my 1911 A1 Colt 45 on Thursday.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:58 PM
Jan 2020

Am I a gun nut? Nope! Just a Marine Corps veteran who refuses to let these pussy ass cowards make me look bad!

This is my only firearm and I am highly trained!

Don't push your bullshit agenda on me!

I don't need to cower behind a 2nd amendment!

gay texan

(2,403 posts)
28. I had to use a firearm for it's intended purpose today
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:18 PM
Jan 2020

and i don't like it, but it had to be done. A animal was trying to kill my outside cats, i got it in an 80 yard shot. I hate that i had to do that, but there was simply no other choice. I feel like shit for having to take the life of something...

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
26. Well, certainly present company excepted, Atticus.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:12 PM
Jan 2020

So...you really think these men might be compensating for something?

Eko

(7,170 posts)
30. Protesting laws that you don't like with firearms says a lot about their belief in the Constitution.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:24 PM
Jan 2020

It absolutely implies violence if you don't get your way.

relayerbob

(6,508 posts)
31. Thank you
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:25 PM
Jan 2020

And yes, as another gray-haired white dude, I want nothing to do with those cowards flaunting their penis substitutes. Those are the dopes and babies, indeed.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
42. Who would run like hell
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:44 PM
Jan 2020

at the first shot.

These asshats are so fat they make a bigger target!

Or maybe they never considered that.

90-percent

(6,828 posts)
39. My righty buds post the same two pics
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:41 PM
Jan 2020

of maybe the two black gun nuts at the rally. I guess the message is sometimes blacks have to cosplay to compensate for a small penis also? Probably more than two, but geeez, what a biased and false slant on the demographics of today's Richmond crowd.

The dorkiest gun nutters are experiencing 15 minutes of internet fame today. Prob an incel, but he looked to be enjoying all the attention.


-90% Jimmy

Response to Atticus (Original post)

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,063 posts)
70. You can't be serious
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:32 AM
Jan 2020

Look at the cosplayers who were at that demonstration. Most of them have so much junk in the trunk they'd have a massive coronary is they did any sort of military training.

The meme(s) "Meal team six" (yes there are several of them) are clearly aimed at people like these.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
71. That is Michael Moore's head photoshopped onto some overweight 'tacticool' guy.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:34 AM
Jan 2020

It was created in response to Moore's 'we're coming for you' anti-trump tweets and other activities.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
73. Ignore all you want. That is Michael Moore's head. You are peddling a right wing meme in your glee
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:40 AM
Jan 2020

to fat shame people you don't like. With your attention to detail, I suppose it's fine if you ignore me too.

Here's the original head:

AllaN01Bear

(17,346 posts)
45. if they want to play military personnel, then let there be a draft and let these people get
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:52 PM
Jan 2020

selected first . this should fit the well regulated militia part well.

MontanaFarmer

(630 posts)
52. They're a joke.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:25 PM
Jan 2020

I, like many in this thread, own and use guns for hunting (upland birds, big game) and for protection of property, in this case farm animals and pets. The fact that these clowns with their AR-15s think they speak for the average gun owner is almost comical. Except it's also scary. The "protection from tyranny" argument slays me, always has. "Need my AR for when the damn gummint comes after me." 1) you're talking about the damn US military, you clowns. If the us government ever turned tyrannical, its instrument is the US DAMN MILITARY!! WTF is your AR 15, or all the AR 15s on earth, in the face of that? 2) most of them have a "support the troops" sticker on their car. You know, the instruments of potential tyranny from up above? Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.

Mersky

(4,969 posts)
60. Rec'd for 'penis substitute'
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:12 AM
Jan 2020

(Lol, I’m gonna have to borrow that.)

And generally agreeing with everything you said.

Wawannabe

(5,580 posts)
61. And these people have the weapons!
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:29 AM
Jan 2020

And body armor and ammunition. Most liberal thinkers do not own guns as weapons against other humans and a good many don’t own any weapons. It kinda puts us in a grave position should there ever be a “rallying cry”. It’s hard to imagine how far all this has come in a relatively short period.

PJMcK

(21,916 posts)
79. Those are such radical ideas!
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:56 AM
Jan 2020

How will the weekend warriors ever be able to protect Democracy from Tyranny?!

mnhtnbb

(31,316 posts)
75. For an interesting historical perspective
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 06:59 AM
Jan 2020

on the reason for the 2nd amendment, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/02/22/what-the-second-amendment-really-meant-to-the-founders/

Free blacks, slaves, and Indians were originally excluded from gun ownership under the 2nd amendment. I don't think it was a coincidence that all these white male gun advocates were strutting their killing machines on a day meant to honor Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.

marble falls

(56,353 posts)
84. So what proportion do you think they made up? I sure didn't see any on the news ...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:57 AM
Jan 2020

were you there?

 

WVJoe

(16 posts)
85. No
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:06 AM
Jan 2020

I wasn’t there. If you look at some of the pictures you will see some diversity. I’m sure it is a smaller % than the national population, probably equal to the % you see in rural areas, where a lot of the protesters are from.

marble falls

(56,353 posts)
87. So these "protester" were a bunch of marginal hayseeds? They really don't represent the majority ...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:08 AM
Jan 2020

of the US, do they?

 

WVJoe

(16 posts)
89. Not sure what you're getting at...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:18 AM
Jan 2020

Because a group of people are a minority they shouldn’t have a say?

marble falls

(56,353 posts)
93. Everybody deserves a right to say, but not everything a marginal group (gun owners) ...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:27 AM
Jan 2020

says needs to made law. Or unmade as law.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
96. I don't think this is a safe line of rationale.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:02 PM
Jan 2020

I get it, but this event is so politicized, every single aspect of it, including the reporting, is suspect.

There were a lot of minorities there. There were some BLM, I saw photos of a group of Koreans, there were Pink Pistols. On the political side, there were ANTIFA there, and everyone got along fine.

If you want to see photos of the diversity that was present, you'll have to venture into right-wing media, which sucks. Both because, who the fuck wants to give them clicks and page visits, and also, they are deliberately using that coverage to highlight minorities because this one example is convenient to their political stance on the 2nd amendment, and for no other reason.

Like, technically, DU's own site rules prevent me from linking to the image hosts/news sites that hold the photos that could be used to answer your original question. (And I don't want to send traffic there, because they get paid.)

Between Orwell and Huxley, I think Huxley had it right. I used to think the political tensions would just work out over time, but now I'm not so sure. Things have changed.

marble falls

(56,353 posts)
97. You had me until "RW media". I think the coverage of this was too low key but was ...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:31 PM
Jan 2020

balanced. I also think that if there was any significant number of PoC on what is commonly known as a white male issue and on MLK day, that would be front page news and all media - RW thru LW - would be covering the hell out of it from different angles.

The RW would be crowing "see this is a cross the board issue" and the LW would be saying "what are these PoC thinking?".

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
99. The right wing IS crowing that.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:48 PM
Jan 2020

But it's also disingenuous because 99% of the time, they couldn't give a shit less about minorities. Just on this one issue, the optics of minorities participating benefits them. Basically they're using them to control the optics.

So, yes, there were minorities there. But to your point, maybe not statistically relevant numbers. I can't tell, because nobody I trust to be objective has in any useful way captured that data.

There are certainly photos circulating of diverse members of the protest, but what's relevant? A hundred unique individuals? 500? I don't know. (I have not seen as many as 100 distinct individuals, in what I have seen and what has crossed my facebook feed.)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
95. Conservative leaning news made a point to showcase a variety of minorities at the rally.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:52 AM
Jan 2020

Center/left media avoided them. One side is over-representing, the other under-represented.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. Statistically, they were likely a small number of participants, but I am uncomfortable with the narrative being so tightly controlled I have to deliberately seek out different forms of news media to get the whole picture.

It's supposed to be the fucking news, an impartial reflection of the facts/events as they happened. Not pre-chewed viewpoints to be consumed without challenging the target audience's specific personal views.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
100. I would say, from what I saw, the crowd was overwhelmingly white and male.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:50 PM
Jan 2020

But LIT said "And not a black face among them." and that is only a valid conclusion from one side of the media's point of view. (I realize this was not your claim.)

heckles65

(544 posts)
91. I imagine a lot of people in Yugoslavia in 1991,
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:12 AM
Jan 2020

or India/Pakistan in 1947 looked much the same way. The old regime is gone and these people are hoping, hoping they will get what they've dreamed of their entire wretched lives: the chance to kill Those People.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
115. Its good to know that all these fat, hayseed, costumed punks are
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 03:29 PM
Jan 2020

nothing we need to worry about.

Small penises and video gaming/Rambo fantasy children with their toys are an annoyance, but isn't it great to realize that all the violence warnings came to nothing, and apparently they never will.

According to most threads - just mock them, make fun of 'em all, have a good laugh at their expense, and move on!

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