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Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:20 PM Jan 2020

The Forbidden Logic. No one wants to speak the unspeakable on the eve of the Trial.

What will be lost, legally and logically, by a Senate Acquittal?

What precedents will be set? What are the destructive actions that will be set in motion?

1. Separation of Powers, a Constitutional fundamental, will be dissolved. There will no longer be co-equal branches of government. The Senate will have approved of actions by Trump that express a "unitary executive", devoid of checks and balances. This will be a permanent precedent that the Senate will establish.

2. Congressional oversight, an Article 1 governmental underpinning, will be dissolved. The executive branch will no longer be accountable to Congress. It can ignore subpoenas, requests for records and documents, and requests for executive branch officials to appear before Congress.

3. The Article 1 clause regarding impeachment itself will be dissolved if the Senate votes to acquit. It is the Senate majority argument that the most egregious of violations of a president's oath of office (as stated in the Founders' arguments for impeachment) can be dismissed as not serious enough for removal from office. Thus, there will be NO threshold to cross that activates removal from office.

4. With all of the barriers to impeachment and removal dissolved, the president can feel unencumbered by Constitutional limitations on power. Just as Trump is currently in the hunt for foreign propaganda to influence the coming election, he'll continue to do so all the way to November, knowing that there is no institution or government entity that can stop him from cheating in any way he can to win the next election. That's because he'll know that he can NEVER be removed from office, and he can manipulate the campaign-- and the election data, in any way he sees fit.

5. With a nullified and powerless Constitution being shredded daily, the power vacuum will be filled by Trump, who will then have the option to turn this democratic republic into a dictatorship. All of the elements for a dictatorship will be in place AFTER THE ACQUITTAL.

6. Remember the Patriot Act? We'd BETTER remember the Patriot Act, because it gives Trump the power to manufacture a national security emergency in order to cancel the election. It will be within his power to do so. If you're thinking that the "manufacturing" part will make it invalid, think again. By the time Congress gets the news, it will already be too late. A dictator doesn't have to wait for approval. Besides, this Acquittal will already have rendered Congressional oversight to be impotent.

Are we following the Bouncing Ball yet?

For those who minimize the logical consequences of an Acquittal, I have a comment: the Trump Party is well aware of these logical consequences. They all support the unitary executive assertions that AG Barr loves. They all support a "permanent Republican majority" goal, set in motion by Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay in the 1980s, which includes gerrymandering, manipulating voting machines, changing voting data in servers, and radio/TV markets saturated with right wing propaganda. And now, Trump will be given explicit permission to pull in propaganda efforts by FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, unhindered by Congress or any other entity.

Why is this NOT part of the general discussion regarding impeachment and removal? Where are the legal scholars/celebrities who are on every news program, warning the viewers and anyone else of the logical and legal consequences of an acquittal? The most consequential decision in US History is about to be made, and the entire Fourth Estate, AND the Democratic Party, are tragically silent.

For those who are reluctant to call out the real and historic crisis that is unfolding RIGHT NOW, fearing that it might panic the population: IT IS TIME TO PANIC. It will be too late after the Acquittal.

When the Senate acquits, the Constitution dies.

-- As a DU member, I have posted similar theses many times over the past several weeks, but I've generally used DU to post comments in reaction to a thread. Now, it's time for more readers to take a look.

112 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Forbidden Logic. No one wants to speak the unspeakable on the eve of the Trial. (Original Post) Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 OP
I agree with that. Newest Reality Jan 2020 #1
And thanks for the Bob Dobbs avatar. It's always fun to revisit the Church of the Subgenius. n/t Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #2
Ah! Newest Reality Jan 2020 #4
I have a Residents tee shirt that I wore yesterday. Big eyeball on top of a tuxedo... Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #16
Eye see! Newest Reality Jan 2020 #17
It's on "Mule Variations", 1999. I think it got a Grammy. n/t Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #52
Yes, "Swastikas on Parade" from "Third Reich 'n' Roll" keeps running through my twisted mind. Marty Marzipan Jan 2020 #40
look to the 0.1% Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2020 #6
Yes, he is acting. BigmanPigman Jan 2020 #9
I am duly panicked. BKDem Jan 2020 #3
Good! Newest Reality Jan 2020 #27
+1 58Sunliner Jan 2020 #66
Thank you, NR BKDem Jan 2020 #73
I'm like you. Pacifist Patriot Jan 2020 #81
My senators will vote for whatever Bettie Jan 2020 #90
The impeachment process is not bound by legal precedents Fiendish Thingy Jan 2020 #5
that could happen if we ever get back to honest elections rurallib Jan 2020 #18
ditto that. No need for elections ayt all if one "party" controls the machinery. erronis Jan 2020 #25
I thought of your "exception" while writing the post, Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #22
I agree with all you said in the OP pangaia Jan 2020 #47
Thank you shanti Jan 2020 #59
You are to be commended for allowing yourself the clear insights you have communicated well here, triron Jan 2020 #92
I have repeatedly mentioned Miguelito Loveless Jan 2020 #7
I tend to agree. gordianot Jan 2020 #10
I'm reminded of the WWII stories... Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #24
I see it every day Miguelito Loveless Jan 2020 #87
Who in the world would deride you for KNOWING the truth?? pangaia Jan 2020 #49
My comments have been described Miguelito Loveless Jan 2020 #86
I don't know what the precise mechanisms will be... Pacifist Patriot Jan 2020 #82
The House speaker has said many times lately that the Senate cannot undo impeachment yaesu Jan 2020 #8
Trump isn't going to removed from office, Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #26
Is the Constitution burning? bucolic_frolic Jan 2020 #11
It will be the American crossing of the Rubicon. wnylib Jan 2020 #12
Wow this got me really stressed out. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #13
We all should be stressed out. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #28
Nope...I've been stressed, but this post really whipped me up. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #54
Do you mean you haven't figured this out already? pangaia Jan 2020 #51
It's called venting. And there is still hope. November 2020 is it, the last one. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #53
They will have saved us from the dreaded right to vote in perpetuity. lunatica Jan 2020 #14
The republicans are definitely codifying lawlessness for themselves rainin Jan 2020 #15
K&R orangecrush Jan 2020 #19
It's the only job he has ever done well. Pepsidog Jan 2020 #21
It's working very well for him too shanti Jan 2020 #60
Great post Kid. Pepsidog Jan 2020 #20
Thank you. n/t Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #29
Excellent essay, thank you Kid saidsimplesimon Jan 2020 #23
Thank you, well said. wendyb-NC Jan 2020 #30
K&R smirkymonkey Jan 2020 #31
I'm desperate, so pray daily now that he will be removed, along with the rest of the rot. lark Jan 2020 #32
pray? pangaia Jan 2020 #55
Maybe I'm wrong, but think he needs someone to lead him. lark Jan 2020 #79
trump is a tool.. and oh boy is he a good one... pangaia Jan 2020 #89
wondering, and do the people have a voice Dan Jan 2020 #33
K&R Normalcy bias. Kurt V. Jan 2020 #34
Let's not forget that Trump's flunkies (the real 'Dark State') were... LudwigPastorius Jan 2020 #35
You missed a few Eyeball, gab13by13 Jan 2020 #36
To me, what you wrote here is the most scary part... Perseus Jan 2020 #39
When I saw the turnover in late summer, it scared the crap out of me. Pacifist Patriot Jan 2020 #83
Rats. I watched some of Wallace's show, but got distracted and must have missed what you saw. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #50
"Who is going to remove him from office?" right. pangaia Jan 2020 #56
Handmaid's Tale without the fancy uniforms. MerryBlooms Jan 2020 #71
What part of the Patriot Act sarisataka Jan 2020 #37
Very good, but we can always hope that we have an honest military that will disallow Perseus Jan 2020 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar Jan 2020 #42
More good than bad doesn;lt mean anything in a case like this.... pangaia Jan 2020 #57
A REAL Banana Republic. . . BigDemVoter Jan 2020 #41
Fascist dictatorship begins. ancianita Jan 2020 #43
I have sent this to my Republican Senator challenging his sense of responsibility. TryLogic Jan 2020 #44
AND IF HE WASN"T IMPEACHED..... Mustellus Jan 2020 #45
I am really worried burrowowl Jan 2020 #46
IMO, if you are worried, you're thinking and your head's in the right place. Eyeball_Kid Jan 2020 #48
THAT is what gets me NO PROTESTS !! Nobody seems to have any idea pangaia Jan 2020 #58
Moderate Democratic leadership would likely frown on PufPuf23 Jan 2020 #69
Absolutely G_j Jan 2020 #61
You are spot on. However, ... jimlup Jan 2020 #62
This needs posting elsewhere, as well. Grasswire2 Jan 2020 #63
K&R Cetacea Jan 2020 #64
Scary. Thanks for posting. 58Sunliner Jan 2020 #65
I agree with you kid I_UndergroundPanther Jan 2020 #67
Given all of the above, why should I not wish for Operation Valkyrie muntrv Jan 2020 #68
Yep. triron Jan 2020 #93
Do you know what scares me the most? Bettie Jan 2020 #70
Thank you for this sobering post. I find it difficult to be optimistic about the future but know i c-rational Jan 2020 #72
Just remember one thing Kaiserguy Jan 2020 #74
What disturbs me is that this does not seem to concern many Americans. Nitram Jan 2020 #75
2 can play that game. larwdem Jan 2020 #76
Well, it sounds like an acquittal seems to be a foregone conclusion. Stonepounder Jan 2020 #77
Kicked and bookmarked CanonRay Jan 2020 #78
This is precisely why I have not had a decent night's sleep in months. Pacifist Patriot Jan 2020 #80
I think your assessment is spot on. warmfeet Jan 2020 #84
The radical polarization moondust Jan 2020 #85
If this happens, the country will split up again. greymattermom Jan 2020 #88
Totally and absolutely agree with your assessment. triron Jan 2020 #91
Everyone in the U. S. needs to read this. triron Jan 2020 #94
Let's not get overly dramatic Shoonra Jan 2020 #95
Wake up man! You are being lulled. triron Jan 2020 #96
Keep this one out front. triron Jan 2020 #97
kick for visibility triron Jan 2020 #98
Please keep alert. triron Jan 2020 #99
kick for visibility triron Jan 2020 #100
We have too many on our side who suffer from the American exceptionalism, "It can't happen here." CrispyQ Jan 2020 #101
Yes I still hear it far too much as well. The USA is about to become a theocracy (imminently). triron Jan 2020 #105
Very close. triron Jan 2020 #112
My fear is we may not have an election C_U_L8R Jan 2020 #102
Republicans are fine with all this because... Kablooie Jan 2020 #103
this is so incredibly worrisome LymphocyteLover Jan 2020 #104
Where does the patriot act allow treestar Jan 2020 #106
Trump doesn't need a legal way to do it. triron Jan 2020 #107
Someone, Please, Get This Post to Chairman Schiff! The_Counsel Jan 2020 #108
2nd that! triron Jan 2020 #109
Kicking for visibility Efilroft Sul Jan 2020 #110
K&R for visibility. crickets Jan 2020 #111

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
1. I agree with that.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:34 PM
Jan 2020

Thanks for spelling it out so cogently.

You are revealing the mechanics and potentials of what is going on right now.

I underscore and emphasize the logical consequences of this scenario.

In my mind Trump is largely and actor who plays a part that is conditioning the public for his end game. One side fawns over him and lauds him as a great, authoritarian leader, (no matter how erroneous that gross misrepresentation is). The other side gets a perfect representation of a packaged facade that fits perfectly in a mold where he is one or more of these: a liar, insane, demented, mean, uncaring, insincere, self-absorbed, imbecilic, physically ill, etc.

Do not get me wrong, he may be all of those in some way or another and to various degrees. I am pointing out that he is an actor, first and foremost and has had plenty of experience in what he does, (most of his life). He is portraying a dual manipulation that is working very well and that's what matters. It doesn't take long, when you research his past and observe him carefully, to see that we may very well NOT be seeing the real Donald Trump, but rather a crafted character with an ulterior motive and the OP is hitting the vein of what that is and so I won't reiterate it.

Before anyone says that what I am suggesting takes anything off his shoulders, it doesn't. To me it is a dual-edged sword. I see him much differently than I did and more things actually makes sense about what he does, on the other hand he then becomes far more dangerous and onerous than his facade would reveal. No, he is not knowledgeable about many things, but this one thing, expert manipulation is his expertise and ALL of us have been played like a fiddle.

Thanks for your post!

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
4. Ah!
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:48 PM
Jan 2020

Well, more slack to you then!

Oh, out of curiosity are you familiar with the Residents by any chance? Ah, the eyeball relates.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
16. I have a Residents tee shirt that I wore yesterday. Big eyeball on top of a tuxedo...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:25 PM
Jan 2020

But Tom Waits also wrote and sang a song titled, "Eyeball Kid." He tells the story of a... well, you'll have to listen to it.

BigmanPigman

(51,432 posts)
9. Yes, he is acting.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:58 PM
Jan 2020

Everything he says or does is acting. I forget who said it but over the weekend I heard someone on MSNBC say the same exact thing that you did.

BKDem

(1,733 posts)
3. I am duly panicked.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:47 PM
Jan 2020

But I have no idea what I can do about it.

Both of my Senators will vote to remove Trump with no prompting from me. I'm giving money to McConnell, Graham and Collins' opponents. I sign petitions, I post snarky comments and I think dark thoughts, but I'm past the age of taking to the streets -- and I'm a little shocked at how few pubic protests are actually taking place.

Please tell me what else I can do to help.





Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
27. Good!
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:50 PM
Jan 2020

It is cumulative. You do something as you indicate, that's your part and within your means. I applaud you for being open minded and seeing the gravity of the situation. That's a good starting point in itself.

You can keep abreast of what's going on and learn as much as you can about the underlying circumstances and details if you feel like it. Why? Because the more you know and the more accurate it is, reflects in some ways, (large or small) in what you say and do. It does add up, and sometimes, in some situations, saying the appropriate thing at the appropriate time does matter. It reverberates whether you realize that or not.

Continue on with your support. Post here if you like. Lend your friendship and emotional support those who are able to act or influence, and relax. Yes, being calm, collected and confident keeps your energy strong and focused on what is needed. No waste. That's a power tool.

I don't know if that helped at all, but maybe that gives the sense of how we are all in this together and small things can add up and beats doing nothing at all by a mile. Maybe others can offer more pragmatic suggestions.

Be Well!

BKDem

(1,733 posts)
73. Thank you, NR
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:50 PM
Jan 2020

That was a very thoughtful and encouraging response. I may not be as hopeless or helpless as my post may have suggested, but it's good to be reminded that all of us who recognize the danger our country is facing need to do whatever we can, whenever we can, wherever we are. We are in the right. We can never forget that, and we can never give in.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,647 posts)
81. I'm like you.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:55 AM
Jan 2020

My Senators are all but guaranteed to vote to acquit. I am supporting Jaime Harrison and Amy McGrath with regular donations. I sign petitions. I continue to call and write my representative and senators for all the good that will do. The only impact it has had so far is to raise my blood pressure when I get their BS form letter replies telling me how great Trump is doing.

I cannot physically canvass door to door and dislike telephone calls. The internet was invented for people like me to be able to order a pizza!

Not sure what else I can do to help either. I'm all ears.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
90. My senators will vote for whatever
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:04 PM
Jan 2020

they are told to as well. Grassley/Ernst. Pieces of garbage both of them.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,369 posts)
5. The impeachment process is not bound by legal precedents
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:50 PM
Jan 2020

If we ever have another rogue president, and are fortunate to have a senate with the courage to defend the Constitution, they can convict and remove, regardless of what this senate does with Trump.

The rest of your awful predictions may come to pass, only time will tell.

erronis

(14,955 posts)
25. ditto that. No need for elections ayt all if one "party" controls the machinery.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:42 PM
Jan 2020

That reminds me of Tammany Hall stories and Boss Tweed.

When will humans ever learn that power is poison?

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
22. I thought of your "exception" while writing the post,
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:36 PM
Jan 2020

and there may not be, in fact, a "legal" precedent, as we understand it. And yes, the trial is a political process. But in a way, an acquittal may be more damaging and more long lasting than the setting of legal precedents. While there are thousands of court decisions that set legal precedents in case law, there are only THREE impeachment trials for or against removal, with major and far-reaching implications in this trial that can and will change the course of governance in the US. If Trump can ignore Congressional oversight and commit impeachable offenses with impunity, an acquittal renders Congress as a neutered body with no power whatsoever. Trump will even disregard laws that give him no option but to use Congressionally approved funds for specific purposes. He will be able to use ANY money for anything he wishes, with no repercussions, BECAUSE impeachment and removal will no longer work.

Yes, the predictions are awful, but they don't grow out of the ethers. Our framework is the Constitution. Trump is ATTACKING THE FRAMEWORK! His legal defense team is attacking the framework, TODAY. And the Senate will approve of Trump's strategy just so they can acquit. If you want "awful", consider that.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
47. I agree with all you said in the OP
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:25 PM
Jan 2020

I have not believed there will actually be a fair election for.. 6 months, a year? I forget. And no election at all is a very good probability... trump will remain in office.

None of what yo say is a surprise to me...

Do our 'candidates' REALLY not understand this? Do ALL our elected representatives REALLY not understand this???

They ALL should be shouting from the rooftops what is really going on.. Primary polls, health care this that,. high speed rail, blah blah.. none of it is going to matter if the PUBLIC isn't given a good slap in the face and woken up RIGHT NOW !!!

Hong Kongers are in the streets fighting for the place they love. Where are americans... ??


Okay, my only 'quibble,' if I can call it that is phrasing it as the 'SENATE' - it is REPUBLICANS who are to blame for everything.. all of this..... But almost EVERYBODY does this-- media included, of course...

Anyway, thanks for taking time to lay out what is basically so freakin obvious to anybody attention..






shanti

(21,672 posts)
59. Thank you
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:53 PM
Jan 2020

This is the major reason that I can't get excited over the primaries, the feeling that there may not be any elections at all if Trump is acquitted. It is chilling. The young people better get busy, because it will be their world!

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
7. I have repeatedly mentioned
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:54 PM
Jan 2020

that Trump is positioning himself to either cancel the elections due to an "emergency", or to selectively deploy police/military assets to Blue states to disrupt elections and discourage turnout.

He is not going to leave peacefully.

I have been derided for this point of view.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
24. I'm reminded of the WWII stories...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:42 PM
Jan 2020

of the French sitting in sidewalk cafes ritualistically sipping their espresso while German tanks are breaching the City limits.

We are at this juncture. Denials of the obvious are what we have left before the Constitutional framework collapses.

Miguelito Loveless

(4,438 posts)
86. My comments have been described
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:27 AM
Jan 2020

as "hysterical", "unhelpful", and "hyperbolic". My comments back in the day that the Iraq War was a fraud, that we would become bogged down in a quagmire that would last longer than Vietnam, and that the hysteria that led to the Patriot Act would also lead to war crimes, and crimes against our own citizens, were also similarly characterized.

Criticisms of Democratic leader's failure to aggressively deal with the GOP and stop enabling them were viewed as disloyal and unhelpful.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,647 posts)
82. I don't know what the precise mechanisms will be...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:56 AM
Jan 2020

but I absolutely agree with you. There will be efforts on his part to cling desperately to the presidency. And it won't be pretty in any sense of the word.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
8. The House speaker has said many times lately that the Senate cannot undo impeachment
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 04:55 PM
Jan 2020

no matter how many dirty tricks they play.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
26. Trump isn't going to removed from office,
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:47 PM
Jan 2020

so he'll hold impeachment up as a badge of honor.

It will only get worse from there. He'll blame the Democrats for his impeachment, and the followers in the Church of Trump will raise their fists in defiance against the Constitutional framework because it's an obstacle in front of Trump. We don't understand this. Trump's followers do not value the Constitution. If Trump says that impeachment should not be a Constitutional remedy, that's what they believe. The House Speaker? The Church of Trump views her as an enemy. No matter what she says, if she opposes Trump, she's quite expendable in their world.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
28. We all should be stressed out.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:53 PM
Jan 2020

We've been lulled into a false sense of security by listening to our news sources, many of which are anti-Trump, but those same news sources have been very shy about raising the alarm. So we really aren't prompted to think in the terms that I wrote in the lead to this thread.

I've read of posters complaining that those concerned about Trump's coming dictatorship should be taking to the streets and protesting by the millions. But that's not happening, at least not yet, partially do to the acquiescence of the Fourth Estate, intent on NOT sending its viewers and listeners into a panic state. But if we keep sitting on our butts and wait for the next monologue from our favorite news pundits, we'll be allowing the Constitution to slide into oblivion.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
51. Do you mean you haven't figured this out already?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:29 PM
Jan 2020

Sorry that sounds accusatory.. don't mean it that way.
But it has been so obvious for many months if not years//
BELIEVE IT..
WE ARE FUCKED!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
14. They will have saved us from the dreaded right to vote in perpetuity.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:18 PM
Jan 2020

Thanks for laying it all out so logically and so eloquently. Great piece!

rainin

(3,010 posts)
15. The republicans are definitely codifying lawlessness for themselves
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:24 PM
Jan 2020

but if a democrat ever takes office again, suddenly they will be impeached for forgetting to wear their flag pin.

But, since I don't actually have 100% faith we will ever have another democratic President (election fraud, hackable voting machines, voter suppression, foreign interference, unlimited dark money), your points are both terrifying and accurate.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
23. Excellent essay, thank you Kid
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:38 PM
Jan 2020
When the Senate acquits, the Constitution dies.


Chilling words and this is how a Republic dies?

Tsar Vlad has destroyed any hope for a Russian democracy. His destruction on their constitution is complete.

wendyb-NC

(3,250 posts)
30. Thank you, well said.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:57 PM
Jan 2020

It's scarier than hell, but it will necessarily happen if there is an acquittal. We are in some desperate times

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
31. K&R
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 05:59 PM
Jan 2020

Great post. I would say more, however I am too depressed and overwhelmed by everything right now to engage.

I'm going to watch "Selma" in honor of MLK instead.

lark

(23,006 posts)
32. I'm desperate, so pray daily now that he will be removed, along with the rest of the rot.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:05 PM
Jan 2020

I am terrified of this country turning into Nazi Germany or some iteration of fascism and Oligarchs R US controlling everything with no constitutional restraints for repugs and only their votes count and everyone not white male rich is screwed. There will be nothing and no one to stop him (barring a miracle of actual repug consciences , which sure hasn't happened so far) if acquitted. Our only hope if/when this happens would be him dying of bad health, which doesn't seem outlandish given his so obvious physical & mental decline.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
55. pray?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:32 PM
Jan 2020

What you are terrified of has been visible for months if not several years....

His dying will do nothing.. PENCE !!

lark

(23,006 posts)
79. Maybe I'm wrong, but think he needs someone to lead him.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 07:26 AM
Jan 2020

I don't think he'd be such an existential threat as drumpf, but you are right that he and Barr & Pompeo & Mulvaney need to be impeached (removed, in jail) as well for being co-conspirators in a plot to harm America.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
89. trump is a tool.. and oh boy is he a good one...
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:58 PM
Jan 2020

he believes nothing except his own interests..

if repubs wanted him out, he'd be out...

pence, on the other hand, BELIEVES!!!!!!

Dan

(3,524 posts)
33. wondering, and do the people have a voice
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:08 PM
Jan 2020

I remember there was this radical text called the 'Preamble to the Constitution', do we the people have a voice?

LudwigPastorius

(8,944 posts)
35. Let's not forget that Trump's flunkies (the real 'Dark State') were...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:22 PM
Jan 2020

apparently preparing an option for him to assassinate a United States ambassador simply because she opposed his will and threatened to expose a crime.

How long after Trump's impeachment acquittal will it be until he is offered this option again on a political or business rival...but this time he uses it because he feels bulletproof?

gab13by13

(20,876 posts)
36. You missed a few Eyeball,
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:31 PM
Jan 2020

Nicolle Wallace's show scared the shit out of me.

Trump obviously has control over the DOJ. The attorney for Lev Parnas has asked that Barr recuse himself and a special prosecutor be appointed. In normal times this would be a no brainer, Trump's own words implicated Barr in the Ukraine shake down. Barr will never recuse himself. This is why Lev went public to Rachel, because Barr would have buried his info, not to mention Lev went public to save his life.

Also, the NSA and CIA are refusing to turn over documents relevant to the impeachment, according to Adam Schiff the intelligence agencies are withholding the documents because of orders from Trump.

Trump also is putting his people heading the military.

Now, someone tell me again why, if Trump loses the election, he will step down? Who is going to remove him from office?

This democracy is on the precipice. Not to mention that McConnell is going to railroad the trial, reports are the schedule is for 12 hour days. Not many people will stay up until 3 in the morning to watch.

Anyone else scared?

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
39. To me, what you wrote here is the most scary part...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:42 PM
Jan 2020
"Trump also is putting his people heading the military."

That is how countries like Venezuela were taken 100%, corrupt military helps the government stay in place.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,647 posts)
83. When I saw the turnover in late summer, it scared the crap out of me.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 08:57 AM
Jan 2020

I was flabbergasted it wasn't front page news everywhere.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
50. Rats. I watched some of Wallace's show, but got distracted and must have missed what you saw.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:28 PM
Jan 2020

Wallace does a great job with her panel of guests and the topics she chooses.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
38. Very good, but we can always hope that we have an honest military that will disallow
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 06:40 PM
Jan 2020

any of the consequences from an acquittal. There has to be real patriotism somewhere in this country, we must stay hopeful and what little we can do, which is vote, and talk to people, then we must do, but I have to think that people do value their way of life, and the fact that there are more good than bad people should also give us hope.

Response to Perseus (Reply #38)

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
57. More good than bad doesn;lt mean anything in a case like this....
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:38 PM
Jan 2020

unfortunately

"people do value their way of life,"

People have no clue what is going on...

ancianita

(35,816 posts)
43. Fascist dictatorship begins.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:01 PM
Jan 2020

Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

IF we live UNDER a dictator -- by all powerful unified executive theory -- because 19.5% of Americans didn't know who they voted for, who sold their inheritance for a mess of pottage while the rest persist with their sunk cost fallacy, THEIR emmiseration will begin.

Not mine. Not ours, DU.

Fuck all Trumpanzee serfs. Eat your pottage.

Mustellus

(328 posts)
45. AND IF HE WASN"T IMPEACHED.....
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:14 PM
Jan 2020

... we would be there already.

At least this way we go down fighting, having stood up for something.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
48. IMO, if you are worried, you're thinking and your head's in the right place.
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:26 PM
Jan 2020

But if there are no organized protests, and if there is no alarm set by the Fourth Estate, a dictatorship it will be.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
58. THAT is what gets me NO PROTESTS !! Nobody seems to have any idea
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 07:45 PM
Jan 2020

what the fuck is happening....

And most the 'news profession" is too cowardly to say anything...

PufPuf23

(8,689 posts)
69. Moderate Democratic leadership would likely frown on
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:30 PM
Jan 2020

wide spread protests alas. The Democratic Party should be fostering protest against Trump and GOP traitors and enablers. Note that Trump eat all have a rally today and Trump has suggested violence from his base.

jimlup

(7,968 posts)
62. You are spot on. However, ...
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 08:13 PM
Jan 2020

We have to recognize the reality of now. Acquittal is extremely likely if not pre-affirmed. This is our new reality.

Meet the new boss ... worse than the old boss ... Name is Valdimir Putin.

We have to put our efforts into making sure the 2020 election is so big that it is un-hackable. That is our reality. We will have to rebuild the constitution later. Perhaps in some years after we have recovered this is a reason for a constitutional convention.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,452 posts)
67. I agree with you kid
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 09:12 PM
Jan 2020

This shit has been going on since this country began. Fucking assholes who think they are better than everyone else,aristocratic rich narcissitic pigs I dispise republicans.

If things really go fascist I know they'll outright kill and torment the poor and disabled. Cut the safety net to nothing. If trump is permitted to be made king.. I am doomed. I might as well kill myself before I am made to suffer. At least if this country becomes abusive I can make a final exit,because after what I have been through, I am not going through that shit again.

Bettie

(15,998 posts)
70. Do you know what scares me the most?
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:04 PM
Jan 2020

There have been no "calm down, that won't happen" posts on this thread.

Generally, frustration and fear are met around here with people saying "relax, it will be OK".

Except we all seem to be aware that it isn't likely to be OK.

I'm hoping for the best and have no fucking idea how to prepare for the worst. No idea at all, because it could be anything.

c-rational

(2,581 posts)
72. Thank you for this sobering post. I find it difficult to be optimistic about the future but know i
Mon Jan 20, 2020, 10:49 PM
Jan 2020

must do what I can and to never give up. We need desperately to rout the reThuglicans in November and this time when we are in power to go back and prosecute all. I do agree. IT IS TIME TO PANIC.

Kaiserguy

(740 posts)
74. Just remember one thing
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:00 AM
Jan 2020

Nazi Germany was one of the most brutal regime in history. Yet in the nations they conquered people stood up and resisted them using every means available they did no go gently in to the pits of Hell they fought back. Never ever give in to the bastards fight them all the way.

larwdem

(757 posts)
76. 2 can play that game.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:40 AM
Jan 2020

One day we will have a dem in the highest office in the land. The repigs may learn a fucking lesson.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
77. Well, it sounds like an acquittal seems to be a foregone conclusion.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 12:45 AM
Jan 2020

But bear in mind that for reasons that are not totally clear much of the globe is moving toward fascism/kleptocracy. Their overriding principle is 'more for us, but convince the masses that we are working for them'. They have absolutely no care for the future, just a 'more for us'.

We have less than 10 years to embark on a radical program to try and reverse global warming and another great extinction. Whether a small number of humans survive is somewhat questionable when the entire infrastructure crumbles.

So, the GOP is voting on the end of the world as we know it.

warmfeet

(3,321 posts)
84. I think your assessment is spot on.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:16 AM
Jan 2020

This may well be the crossroads from which there is no return. I am curious as to what our Democratic leadership is thinking with regard to these consequences. I would think that they understand this at least as well as most members of DU. I could be wrong.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
85. The radical polarization
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 09:20 AM
Jan 2020

"set in motion by Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay" probably wouldn't be as severe in a multiparty system where coalitions and compromise are often required to govern. Is it too late to start over?

greymattermom

(5,751 posts)
88. If this happens, the country will split up again.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 11:48 AM
Jan 2020

California and the other blg blue states will not accept it. Can a city leave a state? Asking for a friend.

triron

(21,916 posts)
91. Totally and absolutely agree with your assessment.
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 01:25 PM
Jan 2020

I have lived in trepidation of this for the last 3+ years. Few have taken me seriously.
Maybe now?

Shoonra

(518 posts)
95. Let's not get overly dramatic
Tue Jan 21, 2020, 02:33 PM
Jan 2020

It's clear from McConnell's behavior that the Senate makes its rule anew with each impeachment, so precedents are hardly made from this (or any) impeachment.

Altho I am in favor of convicting Trump, I have to admit that it is obvious that BOTH sides have lined up along Party lines. To DUers (and some others) the Republicans who vote to impeach are heroes and the Democrats who vote against impeachment are traitors; but people on some other websites feel exactly opposite. A similar line-up occurred with the Clinton impeachment, with the Democrats voting the party line to acquit -- enough to prevent the conviction votes from amounting to 2/3 (altho a simple majority voted to convict). Somehow we didn't think the party solidarity for Clinton was an evil precedent but now that Trump gets a similar break we sing a different tune.

We may be stuck with Trump but we won't be stuck with troublesome precedents.

CrispyQ

(36,234 posts)
101. We have too many on our side who suffer from the American exceptionalism, "It can't happen here."
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:15 PM
Jan 2020

I see it in my democratic friends and family. "We'll just vote him out in November," one of them said, even knowing how compromised our electoral system is.

We are in as dire a position as we've ever been in.

Excellent post.

triron

(21,916 posts)
105. Yes I still hear it far too much as well. The USA is about to become a theocracy (imminently).
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:38 PM
Jan 2020

Wonder what all these 'exceptionalists' will say?

C_U_L8R

(44,897 posts)
102. My fear is we may not have an election
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:20 PM
Jan 2020

and there will be nothing anyone can do about it.

It's what Republicans have been aiming for.

Kablooie

(18,572 posts)
103. Republicans are fine with all this because...
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:25 PM
Jan 2020

They assume that once the dictatorship is established it will be a Republican dictatorship and their power will be assured. They also assume that it will become permanent. Once the constitution is nullified there is nothing preventing Trump for remaining president for life.

The problem is it will be a Trump Republican dictatorship which is very different from what they dream of. It means Trump reforms all policies to benefit himself personally and if they exercise any of their power they will be open to be destroyed. Sham elections would eliminate anyone who sticks their head up. They essentially become slaves whose job is to worship and glorify Trump or are removed.

LymphocyteLover

(5,601 posts)
104. this is so incredibly worrisome
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:30 PM
Jan 2020

Republicans never fail to tear at the constitution, if not completely shred

treestar

(82,383 posts)
106. Where does the patriot act allow
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 12:46 PM
Jan 2020

Canceling of election? Not an argument just a question. Is there a section that has been interpreted that way?

The_Counsel

(1,660 posts)
108. Someone, Please, Get This Post to Chairman Schiff!
Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:15 PM
Jan 2020

It needs to be read--word for word--on the Senate floor before they deliberate.

Take the names out of it. Take the parties out of it. We simply cannot scrap the Constitution just for some power in the short-term. Hell, in five years they won't even HAVE position or power, as the legislative branch will be largely obsolete. As will our nation.

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