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There is a clear lesson for the Democratic party in the UK election (Original Post) Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 OP
+1 -nt. okieinpain Dec 2019 #1
Like the Bernie folks in the last election? flying_wahini Dec 2019 #2
I'm not singling out supporters Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #4
Bernie didn't lose the general election that would be someone else. Joe941 Dec 2019 #37
12% of his supporters voting for the Evil One Aquaria Dec 2019 #128
Bingo. Maru Kitteh Dec 2019 #136
Absolutely correct OBrien Dec 2019 #3
Definitely don't support a Dem that has/had support through Russian propaganda. Beakybird Dec 2019 #5
Do you know what that lesson is? GeorgeGist Dec 2019 #6
Yes Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #9
You're kind of like my ex-wife. "you know what you did" TeamPooka Dec 2019 #26
"It should be clear to anyone who reads yesterday's horoscope, Wednesday's weather forecast, struggle4progress Dec 2019 #97
No, just wanted to sound like I did.. bobGandolf Jan 2020 #144
What is the lesson? edhopper Dec 2019 #7
If I have to tell you Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #10
If you can't say it then it doesn't exist TeamPooka Dec 2019 #25
Wrong Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #30
You haven't been here very long. It shows. TeamPooka Dec 2019 #43
So what? Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #46
"It might make sense to you if only you had taken enough Purple Owsley all those years ago" struggle4progress Dec 2019 #98
Not true. Just does not want to play the game. bobGandolf Jan 2020 #145
You are very annoying RussBLib Dec 2019 #36
Go tight ahead Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #42
Thank you for your "concern." Thread trashed and user ignored TeamPooka Dec 2019 #44
Bye Felicia Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #47
Do UK pols show their tax returns? Lock him up. Dec 2019 #8
Russia, Russia, Russia!!! Johnny2X2X Dec 2019 #11
Don't do Brexit? moondust Dec 2019 #12
People have eyes Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #15
Don't be ridiculous. You are ignoring the elephant in the room - Brexit muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #34
No need for personal attacks Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #40
That's not a "personal attack", it's a pointed criticism of your thread muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #48
Don't need to justify it Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #49
You really can't see what a mess you're making of your position, can you? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #50
The only mess Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #51
You are talking bollocks. One moment you say "if I have to tell you, you won't get it" muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #53
Actually they are Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #55
We already ran our Corbyn eissa Dec 2019 #13
No we didn't Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #16
In this sense, we sort of did eissa Dec 2019 #19
Still no Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #21
Hmm... rusty fender Dec 2019 #27
Hows about we secure the vote? If we don't then that's all she wrote. If we can't get it done at abqtommy Dec 2019 #14
Got it Dems? gratuitous Dec 2019 #17
Oh, come on, tell us the lesson! blogslut Dec 2019 #18
If I have to tell you Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #22
You are very annoying with this. Solomon Dec 2019 #33
Truth is often annoying Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #39
We mus be dum. johnp3907 Dec 2019 #31
The lesson is don't run a horrific candidate regardless of ideology... JCMach1 Dec 2019 #20
Nope Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #23
There are only about 2 who are worse than Boris (i.e. Corbyn level)... soooo kind of a moot point JCMach1 Dec 2019 #24
THIS. KPN Dec 2019 #29
BS! KPN Dec 2019 #28
Never said anything about any candidate Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #32
You know, people might be trying to put words in your mouth... Raster Dec 2019 #35
The point is clear Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #41
That poster seems to be a trouble maker. Probably best not to engage, is my suggestion. Scotch-Irish Dec 2019 #62
Agreed. That was my one and only effort. This is someone with motives other than just discussion... Raster Dec 2019 #63
Didn't say you did. Don't put words in my KPN Dec 2019 #92
To quote from your post Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #96
And? KPN Dec 2019 #99
No need for an and Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #102
What's your point? You are assigning an attribute to KPN Dec 2019 #115
I didn't bring up any candidate Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #124
And Jeremy Corbyn is way further left than both of them Polybius Dec 2019 #87
There is a clear lesson to be learned from this thread sarisataka Dec 2019 #38
Actually what is interesting is Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #45
I know exactly what happened in the UK VMA131Marine Dec 2019 #52
Maybe so, maybe not Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #54
I know more than you do VMA131Marine Dec 2019 #56
So you're the only person who Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #57
Apparently, because you've said exactly nothing of value, VMA131Marine Dec 2019 #64
Do you know the Queen too? Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #65
Corbyn was a terrible candidate Bradical79 Dec 2019 #58
The lesson is not to be unclear about Brexit. bluedye33139 Dec 2019 #59
Bag any idea of improving health care, housing, infrastructure, education, the environment, etc... tenderfoot Dec 2019 #60
Wow Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #61
Bubble. Binkie The Clown Dec 2019 #66
Well it appears there isnt jcgoldie Dec 2019 #67
I guess it's referring to Corbyn's antisemitism ansible Dec 2019 #68
No there is Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #70
Wow Cerulean Southpaw Dec 2019 #69
Wow You really don't get it Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #71
That's what the anti-vaxxers tell me too. Cerulean Southpaw Dec 2019 #91
Never said that Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #94
We know Cerulean Southpaw Dec 2019 #100
And it is interesting that you're so threatened by it Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #103
Also common anti-vaxxer nonsense Cerulean Southpaw Dec 2019 #107
Still internalizing Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #112
The clear lesson being not to listen whistler162 Dec 2019 #72
Those who fail to learn from history Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #74
I worry that Impeachment equals Brexit to many US voters bdjhawk Dec 2019 #73
True, with a caveat... JHB Dec 2019 #75
Quinnipiac Poll Dec 10 YOHABLO Dec 2019 #76
So? Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #79
Uh yeah it is the point. Do not compare UK politics with our progressive electorate. YOHABLO Dec 2019 #106
Never said anything about any candidate Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #111
Trouble is we have the Electoral College and the UK does not treestar Dec 2019 #117
Independent voters make up the largest voting block. YOHABLO Dec 2019 #118
In swing states? treestar Dec 2019 #120
point taken. YOHABLO Dec 2019 #122
Dem for Life edhopper Dec 2019 #77
So what? Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #78
Yeah, I'm tossing this one on the ignore pile. johnp3907 Dec 2019 #81
It's an encore performance RandiFan1290 Dec 2019 #110
There are actually three clear lessons. How in the world... Zenlitened Dec 2019 #80
Do you even know what my point is? Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #83
Do you know what it is? Aquaria Dec 2019 #129
Actually I do Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #131
I'm getting really sick of this going to left bullshit. I have never, ever, ever, once heard vsrazdem Dec 2019 #82
Yet that is not my point Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #84
Well then I don't know what you point is. All I have been reading since the UK election is that vsrazdem Dec 2019 #85
Never said anything about going too far left Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #90
Then state your point, or people will start to think you're a coward or a troll Polybius Dec 2019 #88
He's recently posted praises of Rove. Rather apparent which of the two he is. Lancero Dec 2019 #93
they stick together to vote for their moderates treestar Dec 2019 #119
Jeremy Corbyn was way to the left of anyone running in 2020 Polybius Dec 2019 #86
Never said anything about the far left Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #89
I lulz'd KG Dec 2019 #95
UK election was more about Brexit than ideology..eom at140 Dec 2019 #101
True Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #104
You dismissed reply #12 which was about Brexit muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #109
No Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #113
So you now claim this isn't about policy or candidates muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #123
Always have claimed that Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #126
You're now claiming it isn't about policy either. muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #127
Every ideology Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #130
Because this thread is a waste of time and space muriel_volestrangler Dec 2019 #132
For a waste of time Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #133
It appears that most DUers are not fooled ChubbyStar Dec 2019 #137
Biden is the most qualified, speaks to the widest swath of Americans, and offers sound policies that emmaverybo Dec 2019 #105
All correct except his age is against him at140 Dec 2019 #116
Many are hopeful that a debate gaffe will finish him off. Those many also ignore his strength emmaverybo Dec 2019 #135
One does not need to "suffer substantive memory loss" to make gaffe's at140 Dec 2019 #138
Ability to connect emotionally with audiences is often more powerful than flawless speech. If you emmaverybo Dec 2019 #139
More power to him if he can prevail through the at140 Dec 2019 #140
It is wait and see for all candidates. emmaverybo Dec 2019 #141
What lesson? bobGandolf Dec 2019 #108
True. Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #114
Also true: many of the lessons from there don't map cleanly on to applications over here JHB Dec 2019 #121
True Dem4Life1102 Dec 2019 #125
Yes, it's: "be for something or get the fuck out of the way". meadowlander Dec 2019 #134
Well, I got a post deleted for stating the obvious lesson. jcmaine72 Dec 2019 #142
And how do you plan to make this diversification happen? And resettling refugees will not even ... marble falls Dec 2019 #143
 

Aquaria

(1,076 posts)
128. 12% of his supporters voting for the Evil One
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:05 PM
Dec 2019

Did have a great deal to do with it.

It would be nice if the bernbros would accept that fact.

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
97. "It should be clear to anyone who reads yesterday's horoscope, Wednesday's weather forecast,
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 08:18 PM
Dec 2019

and any basic book on Tarot cards and the I-Ching"

bobGandolf

(871 posts)
144. No, just wanted to sound like I did..
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 05:05 AM
Jan 2020

Come on, what good is that type of question other than as an insult. Kind of Trumpesque.

bobGandolf

(871 posts)
145. Not true. Just does not want to play the game.
Wed Jan 8, 2020, 05:08 AM
Jan 2020

Many of you ask questions like that just for the chance to tear holes in the answer and argue.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
42. Go tight ahead
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:09 PM
Dec 2019

Ignore is just a way of keeping ideological blinders on so thank you for proving my point.

Johnny2X2X

(18,745 posts)
11. Russia, Russia, Russia!!!
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 12:14 PM
Dec 2019

Putin had total control of the narrative and got his guy elected.

That's the lesson, that Putin and Russia have honed their election interference and propaganda techniques.

moondust

(19,917 posts)
12. Don't do Brexit?
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 12:26 PM
Dec 2019


The lesson from the day after is that many, many people will use an election someplace in the world to advance their own agenda.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
34. Don't be ridiculous. You are ignoring the elephant in the room - Brexit
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 03:50 PM
Dec 2019

You just have a point you want to make in GD without saying it, because you know it belongs in the Democratic Primaries forum.

Since you posted this in GD, we will tell you what you fail to see: Brexit dominated the UK election.

I am, by the way, British.

This thread is pointless. You're trying to bend the forum rules by not saying anything.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
48. That's not a "personal attack", it's a pointed criticism of your thread
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:39 PM
Dec 2019

Feel free to justify the thread. Nothing you've written so far has done so.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
50. You really can't see what a mess you're making of your position, can you?
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:50 PM
Dec 2019

You're just telling lots of members that you're someone who will post cryptic BS and then refuse to explain it. It's really going to cut down on the people who will bother talking to you in future. And you're just digging your hole deeper.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
51. The only mess
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:54 PM
Dec 2019

is for people who refuse to take their ideological blinders off. And I’d rather not be bothered with people like that anyway since they are people who can’t be reasoned with regardless of facts.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
53. You are talking bollocks. One moment you say "if I have to tell you, you won't get it"
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:09 PM
Dec 2019

the next "people refuse to take their ideological blinders off".

Those are not arguments, those are contradictory attempts to annoy people, without actually having any point to make (or one that you dare make, anyway).

You should try reasoning with us first, before saying you've found people who can't be reasoned with.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
13. We already ran our Corbyn
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 12:49 PM
Dec 2019

A person who was beloved by most of the base, but vilified and hated outside of it.

All this hand-wringing and comparisons to the UK election are nonsensical. Trump has his cult-like base of supporters -- 30-40% who will stick with him no matter what. BUT he has not grown his base.

Additionally, there are many who sat out the last election because they assumed Hillary had it in the bag. Many won't make that same mistake this time.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
19. In this sense, we sort of did
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 02:16 PM
Dec 2019

I'm not saying their politics were similar in any way, but they both had years of baggage and have been the targets of smear campaigns for decades. Repeat those smears often enough -- whether true or not -- and it will register among the electorate.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
14. Hows about we secure the vote? If we don't then that's all she wrote. If we can't get it done at
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 01:07 PM
Dec 2019

the federal level let's go to the states.

blogslut

(37,955 posts)
18. Oh, come on, tell us the lesson!
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 02:14 PM
Dec 2019

I know I'm just an ignorant fool who will never learn but tell me anyway. Be a sport.

JCMach1

(27,544 posts)
20. The lesson is don't run a horrific candidate regardless of ideology...
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 02:16 PM
Dec 2019

Yes, if we have a candidate worse than Boris Johnson, we would lose to Trump!

JCMach1

(27,544 posts)
24. There are only about 2 who are worse than Boris (i.e. Corbyn level)... soooo kind of a moot point
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 03:31 PM
Dec 2019

those peeps aren't getting the nomination

KPN

(15,587 posts)
28. BS!
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 03:44 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie Sanders isn’t Jeremy Corbin not is Warren. Corbyn’s favorability polls were in the tank and had been way before this election.

Hand wringers .... geesh!

Raster

(20,996 posts)
35. You know, people might be trying to put words in your mouth...
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 04:13 PM
Dec 2019

...because you obviously can't or won't verbalize your dire pronouncement and any data or facts to support.
And please, STOP with the "if I have to tell you, you don't understand" bullshit. Either you have something to talk about or you don't.

 

Scotch-Irish

(464 posts)
62. That poster seems to be a trouble maker. Probably best not to engage, is my suggestion.
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 07:34 PM
Dec 2019

If a great many posters keep having no success in engaging a poster in a rational dialogue, then my experience is that poster is best left to themselves. Usually they are just looking for attention of any kind.

Raster

(20,996 posts)
63. Agreed. That was my one and only effort. This is someone with motives other than just discussion...
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 07:40 PM
Dec 2019

...don't have time for their shit.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
96. To quote from your post
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 07:51 PM
Dec 2019
Bernie Sanders isn’t Jeremy Corbin not is Warren.


I didn’t bring up any candidate so it’s interesting that is how chose to respond

KPN

(15,587 posts)
115. What's your point? You are assigning an attribute to
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:26 PM
Dec 2019

my words that doesn’t exist ... I never said that you mentioned Sanders or Warren. It’s not all about you.

Polybius

(15,239 posts)
87. And Jeremy Corbyn is way further left than both of them
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:15 PM
Dec 2019

He appointed open Marxists to positions.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
45. Actually what is interesting is
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:26 PM
Dec 2019

that in my OP I never mentioned any group, candidate or political point of view. Yet I’ve gotten some fairly nasty responses from some who don’t what to acknowledge what happened in the UK because it goes against their ideological beliefs.

VMA131Marine

(4,124 posts)
52. I know exactly what happened in the UK
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:04 PM
Dec 2019

and Democrats should be wary of drawing any conclusions from the election yesterday that would apply to the election here.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
58. Corbyn was a terrible candidate
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:24 PM
Dec 2019

A dislike of Labour leadership was the biggest factor that hurt them, acording to polling.

bluedye33139

(1,474 posts)
59. The lesson is not to be unclear about Brexit.
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:32 PM
Dec 2019

Scottish voters in particular are offended by Corbyn and the fact that his government would possibly have continued Brexit. He was very unclear about it, and he had been opposed to the EU on ideological grounds for a long time.

Therefore, American politicians should avoid being unclear about Brexit.

Other than that, I'm not seeing what lesson we have to learn.

tenderfoot

(8,424 posts)
60. Bag any idea of improving health care, housing, infrastructure, education, the environment, etc...
Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:34 PM
Dec 2019

that's too far to the left. They're losing proposals. Just leave Wall St. alone!

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
66. Bubble.
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 03:36 AM
Dec 2019

If you're not telling me what I want to hear then I will refuse to listen to you.

We have bubbles to our right, bubbles to our left, and bubbles right in the middle.

One thing remains the same: If you say things that don't fit in my bubble, I will not take you seriously, and I will make invent reasons for why you are wrong. We all accuse the "other side" of doing it, but refuse to let ourselves realize that we do it too. We all do. It's human nature.

 

ansible

(1,718 posts)
68. I guess it's referring to Corbyn's antisemitism
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:49 AM
Dec 2019

Israel is a very sensitive topic of discussion here.

69. Wow
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 06:03 AM
Dec 2019

All of this nonsense about "ideological blinders" is almost funny how the only thing supporting it is stuff like "if I have to tell you" and "It is very apparent" and "you just don't want to admit it".

If you have to tell us what? What is "very apparent"? We don't want to admit WHAT? It's one thing to not answer those questions, and another to avoid answering them.

It gets even dumber when it's followed up by "the point is clear" and "Don't need to justify it. It stands on its own" and "You completely missed the point!"

WHAT point is clear? Don't need to justify WHAT? WHAT stands on its own? Completely missed WHAT point?

And naturally "thank you for proving my point"

It reminds me of the way anti-vaxxers argue.

The only thing that comes close to answer the "WHAT?" questions was this: "Actually what is interesting is I never mentioned any group, candidate or political point of view"

It's the opposite of "interesting" since you haven't said anything that people could take an interest in. That's what people are saying. We know you haven't mentioned anything and that's why people are asking you to clarify. You posted this on a discussion board so you must want to discuss it. So why don't you at least TRY mentioning whatever it is that you're avoiding?

91. That's what the anti-vaxxers tell me too.
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 05:08 PM
Dec 2019

I'm just blind and brainwashed and living in the matrix and not "woke" like they are.

This thread looks like you took borrowed their "arguing 101" textbook and copied down their notes.

100. We know
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:00 PM
Dec 2019

you never that or anything like it, or anything at all besides "it is very apparent" and "if I have to tell you you won't get it" and " anyone who doesn't get it is "wearing blinders".

Actually, that IS a lot like telling people "UR JUST BLIND".

That's not me internalizing anything, that's me observing that it looks like you attended the anti-vaxxer school of arguing, and never even made it far enough to where they taught you how to post links.

107. Also common anti-vaxxer nonsense
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 05:35 AM
Dec 2019

"UR 2 SCARED OF THE TRUTH!"

Did you skip class the day they told people to make their ridiculous claim first, and then drop out as soon as they finished the part about telling people how "blind" they are?

bdjhawk

(420 posts)
73. I worry that Impeachment equals Brexit to many US voters
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 10:30 AM
Dec 2019

Meaning that many UK voters, including those who were anti-Brexit, just wanted to “get it over with” so voted for the candidate who would do just that. Let’s face it, many people are sick of the impeachment hearings, etc. I also do not believe the Dems are direct enough or offer a simple enough message to get the point across about what the Orange turd has done on behalf of Russia and why it is such a risk. All of these self-proclaimed “patriots” that blindly support him and the Repugs should be rising up against them. But once again the Dems are trying to behave honorably and above the fray while the Repugs make short, concise sound bites that the general , less informed voter hears and understands better than the Dems rational but often nuanced comments.

JHB

(37,133 posts)
75. True, with a caveat...
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 11:19 AM
Dec 2019

Just about everyone thinks the "some" who need to take off their ideological blinders are somebody else.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
76. Quinnipiac Poll Dec 10
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 11:35 AM
Dec 2019

If the general election for president were being held today, 51 percent of registered voters say they would vote for Joe Biden, while 42 percent say they would vote for President Trump.

When Trump is matched against other Democratic contenders the race remains in single digits:

Bernie Sanders gets 51 percent, while Trump has 43 percent;

Elizabeth Warren receives 50 percent and Trump gets 43 percent;

Michael Bloomberg gets 48 percent to Trump's 42 percent;

Pete Buttigieg has 48 percent, while Trump receives 43 percent;

Amy Klobuchar receives 47 percent, while Trump has 43 percent.

Looks to me like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders both have equal percentages to Biden. All three are ahead of Trump.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
106. Uh yeah it is the point. Do not compare UK politics with our progressive electorate.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:48 AM
Dec 2019

This is merely a 'cause and effect' bashing of progressive candidates by comparing what just took place in the UK with Corbyn losing to conservative Johnson. Our progressive candidates, yes Sanders and Warren, are just as capable of beating Trump in the GE, but centrist Democrats (the establishment) with the help of corporate media, would like to persuade voters otherwise.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
117. Trouble is we have the Electoral College and the UK does not
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:46 PM
Dec 2019

We have to worry most about the swing states and how progressive they are, not the country in general.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
120. In swing states?
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:49 PM
Dec 2019

The UK does not have to single out parts of the UK that will determine the outcome.

Zenlitened

(9,488 posts)
80. There are actually three clear lessons. How in the world...
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 12:47 PM
Dec 2019

...can you not see that? You've undermined your entire point by being so blind to reality.

 

Aquaria

(1,076 posts)
129. Do you know what it is?
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:10 PM
Dec 2019

Because you refuse to articulate it, which tells me you don't know what your point is yourself.

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
82. I'm getting really sick of this going to left bullshit. I have never, ever, ever, once heard
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 01:38 PM
Dec 2019

a Republican say, "Oh, we better not go too far to the right, we might piss of our base." The one thing the Republicans are good about is sticking together. To bad we still haven't learned the lesson to stop eating our own.

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
85. Well then I don't know what you point is. All I have been reading since the UK election is that
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 02:49 PM
Dec 2019

we can't go too far to the left, including from Biden. You never hear this from the Republicans.

Polybius

(15,239 posts)
88. Then state your point, or people will start to think you're a coward or a troll
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:18 PM
Dec 2019

Since you are neither of those things, prove them wrong.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
119. they stick together to vote for their moderates
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:48 PM
Dec 2019

at least that's possible. I have argued with right-wingers who said they voted for Dubya, McCain, and Romney even though those three were "too liberal." They vote for their "centrists" no matter what.

Polybius

(15,239 posts)
86. Jeremy Corbyn was way to the left of anyone running in 2020
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 04:13 PM
Dec 2019

Way further left than my candidate (Warren), and much further (and more divisive) than Bernie too. I agree that we should not nominate anyone that far left, but all of our candidates are fine.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
109. You dismissed reply #12 which was about Brexit
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 06:30 AM
Dec 2019

and now, in complete desperation to pretend that someone has agreed with you, you say "true" to it.

This has been the most revealing thread of a member I've seen for a long time. In over 100 replies in it, you've not bothered to make a point yourself, have dismissed everyone else's points (though claimed that some agree with you - which posts? Be specific), claimed that some DUers would never be able to understand, and told us all to "take off our ideological blinders".

We'd get better analysis or advice from John Boehner. You really need to try harder.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
113. No
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:31 AM
Dec 2019

The poster made a legitimate point. But the point I was making was not about any policy or candidate. They also didn’t engage in unnecessary personal attacks that so others automatically went to.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
123. So you now claim this isn't about policy or candidates
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:53 PM
Dec 2019

And yet, you still haven't said what you're claiming as a 'point'. If it's neither policy nor candidates, it's probably not worth talking about. Are you wittering on about 'visuals' or something?

You started the personal attacks, remember - "some refuse to acknowledge reality because they refuse to take of their ideological blinders". Your OP. Don't whine when people call you out for your nonsense.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
126. Always have claimed that
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 01:45 PM
Dec 2019

One of the first responses to my OP mentioned Sanders and I immediately pointed out I wasn’t specifically referring to any candidate.

And pointing out that there are some who refuse to see beyond their ideologically is not a personal attack. But it is interesting that some have immediately launched personal attacks on me when I never candidate or policy or any group regardless of where they fall on the ideological scale.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
127. You're now claiming it isn't about policy either.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:01 PM
Dec 2019

So what ideology are you claiming is involved, if it isn't about policy?

Face it, you are changing your position every few hours - even while refusing to say what you're talking about. You're just spending your time arguing against anyone who tries to take you seriously (no, no-one has managed to agree with you, because you haven't made a single point yet. Your posts in this thread are all vacuous). You don't understand what a 'personal attack' is either. Why not take some time off to understand some definitions? It'll help you carry on a meaningful conversation, in the long run.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
130. Every ideology
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 03:21 PM
Dec 2019

And if I haven’t made a single point yet, why are you so threatened by it? Seems like I hit a nerve.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,158 posts)
132. Because this thread is a waste of time and space
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 03:35 PM
Dec 2019

and I want to make sure you don't try crap like this again. It's DU you're "threatening". We won't allow you to turn it into a swamp.

 

Dem4Life1102

(3,974 posts)
133. For a waste of time
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 05:01 PM
Dec 2019

you’re spending a lot of time and effort responding.

As the say goes, the lady douth protest too much.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
105. Biden is the most qualified, speaks to the widest swath of Americans, and offers sound policies that
Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:27 PM
Dec 2019

have the best chance of coming to fruition. Economic inequality is not the only issue we must deal with, nor will it be erased magically by putting into office people who talk a lot about it, and address little else. Those people must build consensus for their policies and work to get them enacted, spending not only financial capital, but tremendous political investment as well,

I am not persuaded that good leadership is the ability to promise a plan for every pot. Any one can
dream up policies and make promises.

Equally important to domestic policy is foreign policy and relations. No other candidate comes close to Biden’s knowledge or experience in this area, one crucial to the whole world. No other candidate has expressed much interest either.

Center, left to center, left. Whatever...Biden is the best for the job.

at140

(6,110 posts)
116. All correct except his age is against him
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 12:33 PM
Dec 2019

He is showing normal signs of ageing. It is not his fault he forgets things and makes some gaffes.
I am not far from Biden's age, and more than anything else my memory is degrading faster. Again,
it is not my fault, just the result of age.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
135. Many are hopeful that a debate gaffe will finish him off. Those many also ignore his strength
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 06:32 PM
Dec 2019

communicating on the trail, in interviews, at town halls, through eloquent speeches,
and Op-Ed’s that give the lie to the idea that he is in an age-related decline, is suffering substantive memory loss, is inarticulate.

But then Bernie’s heart attack was supposed to finish him off and only a short time ago Harris was
an overnight sensation and Warren surging her way to unstoppable victory.

Keep the faith, but continue to wait for Biden’s demise. I am not as good at Jeopardy as I used to be but then I wasn’t VP material three years ago.

at140

(6,110 posts)
138. One does not need to "suffer substantive memory loss" to make gaffe's
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 08:14 PM
Dec 2019

Only a very small memory loss makes you prone to gaffe's. Especially vulnerable is short term memory.
At my age in late 70's, I can vividly remember my oldest sister's wedding when I was only 4 years old, but some times I will walk into a different room in the house and forget why I came there LOL. It does not mean I am now senile or suffering dementia. Because I can still write complicated computer software.

With so many articulate democrats out there, like Cory Booker, Klobuchar or Tim Kaine etc, I don't understand fixation on Joe Biden. I would rather see a centrist like mayor Pete become the nominee than 74 year old Biden, even though my agenda matches more with senator Warren.

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
139. Ability to connect emotionally with audiences is often more powerful than flawless speech. If you
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:25 PM
Dec 2019

feel those of us who support Biden to be the next leader of the free world are merely fixated and should support far less experienced and qualified folks for the highest office in the land,
the world, no argument would help.

I defer to Biden’s list of endorsers and the world leaders who were urging him to run in th3 first place. I also think we ought to give lots of weight to AA support.





at140

(6,110 posts)
140. More power to him if he can prevail through the
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:32 PM
Dec 2019

grueling primaries and then post-convention months.

meadowlander

(4,358 posts)
134. Yes, it's: "be for something or get the fuck out of the way".
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 05:19 PM
Dec 2019

Jeremy Corbyn lost because his view on Brexit was literally "I don't know what to do about that". He spent three years waffling. And he was anti-Semitic but refused to step down from the leadership.

People want leaders who inspire them and who have solutions not "keep voting for us because the other guy is unthinkable". People eventually get sick of voting for the less terrible side and disengage completely.

jcmaine72

(1,773 posts)
142. Well, I got a post deleted for stating the obvious lesson.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:54 PM
Dec 2019

We need to increase diversity to prevent the fear, ignorance and racism of (fill in the blank) from producing election results like this on both sides of the pond. Demography is destiny.

If we want to dominate national politics the way we do state politics in California (as I'm sure we all here would like), we must make the rest of the nation resemble California's diverse population. It's that simple.

marble falls

(56,359 posts)
143. And how do you plan to make this diversification happen? And resettling refugees will not even ...
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 04:08 PM
Dec 2019

begin to diversify the population anywhere.

You took more than one hide over this.

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