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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere is a clear lesson for the Democratic party in the UK election
I hope that we learn it and not ignore it because some refuse to acknowledge reality because they refuse to take of their ideological blinders.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)flying_wahini
(6,529 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)of any candidate.
Joe941
(2,848 posts)Aquaria
(1,076 posts)Did have a great deal to do with it.
It would be nice if the bernbros would accept that fact.
Maru Kitteh
(28,303 posts)OBrien
(363 posts)Beakybird
(3,329 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,294 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)It is very apparent.
TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)and any basic book on Tarot cards and the I-Ching"
bobGandolf
(871 posts)Come on, what good is that type of question other than as an insult. Kind of Trumpesque.
edhopper
(33,208 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)you won't get it.
TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)It is apparent to anyone not wearing ideological blinders
TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)bobGandolf
(871 posts)Many of you ask questions like that just for the chance to tear holes in the answer and argue.
RussBLib
(8,985 posts)So much so I am tempted to put you on Ignore.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Ignore is just a way of keeping ideological blinders on so thank you for proving my point.
TeamPooka
(24,156 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Lock him up.
(6,874 posts)I don't know. Just asking.
Johnny2X2X
(18,745 posts)Putin had total control of the narrative and got his guy elected.
That's the lesson, that Putin and Russia have honed their election interference and propaganda techniques.
moondust
(19,917 posts)The lesson from the day after is that many, many people will use an election someplace in the world to advance their own agenda.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)but some fail to see.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)You just have a point you want to make in GD without saying it, because you know it belongs in the Democratic Primaries forum.
Since you posted this in GD, we will tell you what you fail to see: Brexit dominated the UK election.
I am, by the way, British.
This thread is pointless. You're trying to bend the forum rules by not saying anything.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)Feel free to justify the thread. Nothing you've written so far has done so.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)It stands on its own. Why are you so threatened by it.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)You're just telling lots of members that you're someone who will post cryptic BS and then refuse to explain it. It's really going to cut down on the people who will bother talking to you in future. And you're just digging your hole deeper.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)is for people who refuse to take their ideological blinders off. And Id rather not be bothered with people like that anyway since they are people who cant be reasoned with regardless of facts.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)the next "people refuse to take their ideological blinders off".
Those are not arguments, those are contradictory attempts to annoy people, without actually having any point to make (or one that you dare make, anyway).
You should try reasoning with us first, before saying you've found people who can't be reasoned with.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)You just dont want to admit it, probably even to yourself
eissa
(4,238 posts)A person who was beloved by most of the base, but vilified and hated outside of it.
All this hand-wringing and comparisons to the UK election are nonsensical. Trump has his cult-like base of supporters -- 30-40% who will stick with him no matter what. BUT he has not grown his base.
Additionally, there are many who sat out the last election because they assumed Hillary had it in the bag. Many won't make that same mistake this time.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)eissa
(4,238 posts)I'm not saying their politics were similar in any way, but they both had years of baggage and have been the targets of smear campaigns for decades. Repeat those smears often enough -- whether true or not -- and it will register among the electorate.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Please stop spinning
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)She won, remember
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)the federal level let's go to the states.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Don't nominate Jeremy Corbyn!
blogslut
(37,955 posts)I know I'm just an ignorant fool who will never learn but tell me anyway. Be a sport.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)you wont get it
Solomon
(12,305 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)to those who have an agenda
johnp3907
(3,723 posts)JCMach1
(27,544 posts)Yes, if we have a candidate worse than Boris Johnson, we would lose to Trump!
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)JCMach1
(27,544 posts)those peeps aren't getting the nomination
KPN
(15,587 posts)Bernie Sanders isnt Jeremy Corbin not is Warren. Corbyns favorability polls were in the tank and had been way before this election.
Hand wringers .... geesh!
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)so dont put words in my mouth.
Raster
(20,996 posts)...because you obviously can't or won't verbalize your dire pronouncement and any data or facts to support.
And please, STOP with the "if I have to tell you, you don't understand" bullshit. Either you have something to talk about or you don't.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)to anyone who wants to admit it
Scotch-Irish
(464 posts)If a great many posters keep having no success in engaging a poster in a rational dialogue, then my experience is that poster is best left to themselves. Usually they are just looking for attention of any kind.
Raster
(20,996 posts)...don't have time for their shit.
KPN
(15,587 posts)mouth.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)I didnt bring up any candidate so its interesting that is how chose to respond
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)KPN
(15,587 posts)my words that doesnt exist ... I never said that you mentioned Sanders or Warren. Its not all about you.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)But you did. Interesting.
Polybius
(15,239 posts)He appointed open Marxists to positions.
sarisataka
(18,220 posts)I learned it some time ago
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)that in my OP I never mentioned any group, candidate or political point of view. Yet Ive gotten some fairly nasty responses from some who dont what to acknowledge what happened in the UK because it goes against their ideological beliefs.
VMA131Marine
(4,124 posts)and Democrats should be wary of drawing any conclusions from the election yesterday that would apply to the election here.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)VMA131Marine
(4,124 posts)Having friends and family in the UK
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)has friends and family in the UK?
VMA131Marine
(4,124 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)A dislike of Labour leadership was the biggest factor that hurt them, acording to polling.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)Scottish voters in particular are offended by Corbyn and the fact that his government would possibly have continued Brexit. He was very unclear about it, and he had been opposed to the EU on ideological grounds for a long time.
Therefore, American politicians should avoid being unclear about Brexit.
Other than that, I'm not seeing what lesson we have to learn.
tenderfoot
(8,424 posts)that's too far to the left. They're losing proposals. Just leave Wall St. alone!
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)You completely missed the point!
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)If you're not telling me what I want to hear then I will refuse to listen to you.
We have bubbles to our right, bubbles to our left, and bubbles right in the middle.
One thing remains the same: If you say things that don't fit in my bubble, I will not take you seriously, and I will make invent reasons for why you are wrong. We all accuse the "other side" of doing it, but refuse to let ourselves realize that we do it too. We all do. It's human nature.
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)If there was I guess you wouldnt have to post this cryptic nonsense.
ansible
(1,718 posts)Israel is a very sensitive topic of discussion here.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)You just have to be willing to see it.
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)All of this nonsense about "ideological blinders" is almost funny how the only thing supporting it is stuff like "if I have to tell you" and "It is very apparent" and "you just don't want to admit it".
If you have to tell us what? What is "very apparent"? We don't want to admit WHAT? It's one thing to not answer those questions, and another to avoid answering them.
It gets even dumber when it's followed up by "the point is clear" and "Don't need to justify it. It stands on its own" and "You completely missed the point!"
WHAT point is clear? Don't need to justify WHAT? WHAT stands on its own? Completely missed WHAT point?
And naturally "thank you for proving my point"
It reminds me of the way anti-vaxxers argue.
The only thing that comes close to answer the "WHAT?" questions was this: "Actually what is interesting is I never mentioned any group, candidate or political point of view"
It's the opposite of "interesting" since you haven't said anything that people could take an interest in. That's what people are saying. We know you haven't mentioned anything and that's why people are asking you to clarify. You posted this on a discussion board so you must want to discuss it. So why don't you at least TRY mentioning whatever it is that you're avoiding?
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)A few have.
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)I'm just blind and brainwashed and living in the matrix and not "woke" like they are.
This thread looks like you took borrowed their "arguing 101" textbook and copied down their notes.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)or anything like it. Interesting how youve internalized this.
Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)you never that or anything like it, or anything at all besides "it is very apparent" and "if I have to tell you you won't get it" and " anyone who doesn't get it is "wearing blinders".
Actually, that IS a lot like telling people "UR JUST BLIND".
That's not me internalizing anything, that's me observing that it looks like you attended the anti-vaxxer school of arguing, and never even made it far enough to where they taught you how to post links.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Cerulean Southpaw
(32 posts)"UR 2 SCARED OF THE TRUTH!"
Did you skip class the day they told people to make their ridiculous claim first, and then drop out as soon as they finished the part about telling people how "blind" they are?
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Interesting
whistler162
(11,155 posts)to people who try to tell us there is a clear lesson!
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)are doomed to repeat it.
bdjhawk
(420 posts)Meaning that many UK voters, including those who were anti-Brexit, just wanted to get it over with so voted for the candidate who would do just that. Lets face it, many people are sick of the impeachment hearings, etc. I also do not believe the Dems are direct enough or offer a simple enough message to get the point across about what the Orange turd has done on behalf of Russia and why it is such a risk. All of these self-proclaimed patriots that blindly support him and the Repugs should be rising up against them. But once again the Dems are trying to behave honorably and above the fray while the Repugs make short, concise sound bites that the general , less informed voter hears and understands better than the Dems rational but often nuanced comments.
JHB
(37,133 posts)Just about everyone thinks the "some" who need to take off their ideological blinders are somebody else.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)If the general election for president were being held today, 51 percent of registered voters say they would vote for Joe Biden, while 42 percent say they would vote for President Trump.
When Trump is matched against other Democratic contenders the race remains in single digits:
Bernie Sanders gets 51 percent, while Trump has 43 percent;
Elizabeth Warren receives 50 percent and Trump gets 43 percent;
Michael Bloomberg gets 48 percent to Trump's 42 percent;
Pete Buttigieg has 48 percent, while Trump receives 43 percent;
Amy Klobuchar receives 47 percent, while Trump has 43 percent.
Looks to me like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders both have equal percentages to Biden. All three are ahead of Trump.
That is not the point.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)This is merely a 'cause and effect' bashing of progressive candidates by comparing what just took place in the UK with Corbyn losing to conservative Johnson. Our progressive candidates, yes Sanders and Warren, are just as capable of beating Trump in the GE, but centrist Democrats (the establishment) with the help of corporate media, would like to persuade voters otherwise.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)But interesting that you went there.
treestar
(82,383 posts)We have to worry most about the swing states and how progressive they are, not the country in general.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)The UK does not have to single out parts of the UK that will determine the outcome.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)edhopper
(33,208 posts)DU member for 4 months. But is so much wiser than the rest of us.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Why does it matter how long Im a member?
johnp3907
(3,723 posts)I dont need this idiocy in my cyber life.
RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)Welcome them back
Zenlitened
(9,488 posts)...can you not see that? You've undermined your entire point by being so blind to reality.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Aquaria
(1,076 posts)Because you refuse to articulate it, which tells me you don't know what your point is yourself.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)And several who have responded have got it.
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)a Republican say, "Oh, we better not go too far to the right, we might piss of our base." The one thing the Republicans are good about is sticking together. To bad we still haven't learned the lesson to stop eating our own.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)we can't go too far to the left, including from Biden. You never hear this from the Republicans.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Interesting that you went there though.
Polybius
(15,239 posts)Since you are neither of those things, prove them wrong.
Lancero
(2,984 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)at least that's possible. I have argued with right-wingers who said they voted for Dubya, McCain, and Romney even though those three were "too liberal." They vote for their "centrists" no matter what.
Polybius
(15,239 posts)Way further left than my candidate (Warren), and much further (and more divisive) than Bernie too. I agree that we should not nominate anyone that far left, but all of our candidates are fine.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)because that is not the point.
KG
(28,749 posts)at140
(6,110 posts)Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)and now, in complete desperation to pretend that someone has agreed with you, you say "true" to it.
This has been the most revealing thread of a member I've seen for a long time. In over 100 replies in it, you've not bothered to make a point yourself, have dismissed everyone else's points (though claimed that some agree with you - which posts? Be specific), claimed that some DUers would never be able to understand, and told us all to "take off our ideological blinders".
We'd get better analysis or advice from John Boehner. You really need to try harder.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)The poster made a legitimate point. But the point I was making was not about any policy or candidate. They also didnt engage in unnecessary personal attacks that so others automatically went to.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)And yet, you still haven't said what you're claiming as a 'point'. If it's neither policy nor candidates, it's probably not worth talking about. Are you wittering on about 'visuals' or something?
You started the personal attacks, remember - "some refuse to acknowledge reality because they refuse to take of their ideological blinders". Your OP. Don't whine when people call you out for your nonsense.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)One of the first responses to my OP mentioned Sanders and I immediately pointed out I wasnt specifically referring to any candidate.
And pointing out that there are some who refuse to see beyond their ideologically is not a personal attack. But it is interesting that some have immediately launched personal attacks on me when I never candidate or policy or any group regardless of where they fall on the ideological scale.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)So what ideology are you claiming is involved, if it isn't about policy?
Face it, you are changing your position every few hours - even while refusing to say what you're talking about. You're just spending your time arguing against anyone who tries to take you seriously (no, no-one has managed to agree with you, because you haven't made a single point yet. Your posts in this thread are all vacuous). You don't understand what a 'personal attack' is either. Why not take some time off to understand some definitions? It'll help you carry on a meaningful conversation, in the long run.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)And if I havent made a single point yet, why are you so threatened by it? Seems like I hit a nerve.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,158 posts)and I want to make sure you don't try crap like this again. It's DU you're "threatening". We won't allow you to turn it into a swamp.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)youre spending a lot of time and effort responding.
As the say goes, the lady douth protest too much.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)I have faith that things will work out.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)have the best chance of coming to fruition. Economic inequality is not the only issue we must deal with, nor will it be erased magically by putting into office people who talk a lot about it, and address little else. Those people must build consensus for their policies and work to get them enacted, spending not only financial capital, but tremendous political investment as well,
I am not persuaded that good leadership is the ability to promise a plan for every pot. Any one can
dream up policies and make promises.
Equally important to domestic policy is foreign policy and relations. No other candidate comes close to Bidens knowledge or experience in this area, one crucial to the whole world. No other candidate has expressed much interest either.
Center, left to center, left. Whatever...Biden is the best for the job.
at140
(6,110 posts)He is showing normal signs of ageing. It is not his fault he forgets things and makes some gaffes.
I am not far from Biden's age, and more than anything else my memory is degrading faster. Again,
it is not my fault, just the result of age.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)communicating on the trail, in interviews, at town halls, through eloquent speeches,
and Op-Eds that give the lie to the idea that he is in an age-related decline, is suffering substantive memory loss, is inarticulate.
But then Bernies heart attack was supposed to finish him off and only a short time ago Harris was
an overnight sensation and Warren surging her way to unstoppable victory.
Keep the faith, but continue to wait for Bidens demise. I am not as good at Jeopardy as I used to be but then I wasnt VP material three years ago.
at140
(6,110 posts)Only a very small memory loss makes you prone to gaffe's. Especially vulnerable is short term memory.
At my age in late 70's, I can vividly remember my oldest sister's wedding when I was only 4 years old, but some times I will walk into a different room in the house and forget why I came there LOL. It does not mean I am now senile or suffering dementia. Because I can still write complicated computer software.
With so many articulate democrats out there, like Cory Booker, Klobuchar or Tim Kaine etc, I don't understand fixation on Joe Biden. I would rather see a centrist like mayor Pete become the nominee than 74 year old Biden, even though my agenda matches more with senator Warren.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)feel those of us who support Biden to be the next leader of the free world are merely fixated and should support far less experienced and qualified folks for the highest office in the land,
the world, no argument would help.
I defer to Bidens list of endorsers and the world leaders who were urging him to run in th3 first place. I also think we ought to give lots of weight to AA support.
at140
(6,110 posts)grueling primaries and then post-convention months.
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)bobGandolf
(871 posts)There is more than one lesson to be learned by the UK election.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)JHB
(37,133 posts)Most dont. But some do.
meadowlander
(4,358 posts)Jeremy Corbyn lost because his view on Brexit was literally "I don't know what to do about that". He spent three years waffling. And he was anti-Semitic but refused to step down from the leadership.
People want leaders who inspire them and who have solutions not "keep voting for us because the other guy is unthinkable". People eventually get sick of voting for the less terrible side and disengage completely.
jcmaine72
(1,773 posts)We need to increase diversity to prevent the fear, ignorance and racism of (fill in the blank) from producing election results like this on both sides of the pond. Demography is destiny.
If we want to dominate national politics the way we do state politics in California (as I'm sure we all here would like), we must make the rest of the nation resemble California's diverse population. It's that simple.
marble falls
(56,359 posts)begin to diversify the population anywhere.
You took more than one hide over this.