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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 08:51 AM Nov 2019

"It's Your Responsibility to Challenge Bigoted Relatives Over the Holidays"

The dinner table is one of the most sacred places in the household. For many families, it is the place where difficult conversations, delicate family dynamics, and restorative fellowship all come together. These complex events come to a head here because the dinner table is a safe place. Often, during the holidays, the dinner table feels so safe that many family members are comfortable uttering their most racist, transphobic, queer antagonistic, misogynistic, and generally ugly ideas over their turkey and cranberry sauce. Some white people who see themselves as nonracist will just play nice instead of clapping back directly at these problematic family members. This year, consider doing something different.
...
Neighborhood segregation means that many white Americans don’t see many nonwhite people as members of their communities, and certainly not as their next-door neighbors.
...
Not only are white Americans often isolated by race where they live, they are unlikely to be surrounded by friends and loved ones who are nonwhite. If anti-racist white people do not muster up the courage to challenge their bigoted family members this holiday season, no one else will be there to do it.

These forms of isolation mean that many white Americans don’t have to confront racial differences in their personal and daily lives. Because of white privilege, many of them can simply opt out of difficult conversations that challenge internalized stereotypes or beliefs about people who aren’t like them. These attitudes are shaped from an early age. As University of Rhode Island history professor Erik Loomis put it in a recent piece in the Boston Review, when citing a study of white school children in a specific town in the Midwest, “almost none develop a meaningful critique of structural racism, question their own privilege, or think seriously about how to combat racial prejudice.” They may “oppose overt racism,” he continued, “but they also see themselves as deserving of every advantage they have received.”
...
What it mostly boils down to, though, is not being passive. Quietly forking away at your yams and green beans while Aunt Susan spews hateful messages about Black people, immigrants, or gender nonconforming people won’t do anything to change the status quo. It’s just another way of allowing these toxic ideas and beliefs to permeate throughout generations and social networks every day. How about stepping up to do something about it?

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/thanksgiving-holiday-family-politics
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"It's Your Responsibility to Challenge Bigoted Relatives Over the Holidays" (Original Post) StarfishSaver Nov 2019 OP
Put aside the angry rhetoric snowybirdie Nov 2019 #1
Honest conversations don't have to involve angry rhetoric StarfishSaver Nov 2019 #10
Yes. Look to all the dynamics that cause it, which boil down to personalizing Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2019 #14
It'd just be nice if angry rhetoric wasn't the only thing that could take a day off ck4829 Nov 2019 #15
No need. One thing I can actually thank Donald Trump for, Amimnoch Nov 2019 #2
Sadly this is more true than I want it to be Arthur_Frain Nov 2019 #11
++ good on teen vogue. Maybe the younger white generation will see the folly of sitting silent as lunasun Nov 2019 #3
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke dustyscamp Nov 2019 #4
I give thanks ... GeorgeGist Nov 2019 #5
well it probably won't happen at our family gathering yellowdogintexas Nov 2019 #7
Sage advice RichardRay Nov 2019 #6
So happy DownriverDem Nov 2019 #8
You can get your point across with few safeinOhio Nov 2019 #9
I like those dustyscamp Nov 2019 #17
My solution do not invite Aunt Susan. gordianot Nov 2019 #12
Agreed. I've spent my life trying to get RW relatives to see reason on countless issues. Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2019 #19
It is hard at first but Trumpism makes it a lot easier. gordianot Nov 2019 #20
Recommended. H2O Man Nov 2019 #13
Just do what I do... LeftofObama Nov 2019 #16
Teen Vogue is a great source of advice. Imma start some shit at dinner. Bonx Nov 2019 #18
Having been a 14 yr old girl with PMS irisblue Nov 2019 #21

snowybirdie

(5,227 posts)
1. Put aside the angry rhetoric
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:45 AM
Nov 2019

for one day. Focus on the good in our lives and the fact that family is family. Worts and all. Remember, many people have lost those they love and are alone. Just one day! Peace

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
10. Honest conversations don't have to involve angry rhetoric
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:23 AM
Nov 2019

Loving and accepting family doesn't mean just sitting silently by while they denigrate others. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is help someone learn and grow. That doesn't have to be confrontational or cruel. There are many gentle ways to handle such things. But ducking them and remaining silent because "it's Thanksgiving" is a copout.

Imagine if you brought a gay friend to Thanksgiving dinner and a family member started spewing homophobic opinions in their presence. Would you say something or just remain silent because "family is family"? And if you'd say something, why not say something even when your gay friend isn't in the room? Do you stand up for what's right only if certain people can hear you or do you do it whenever it you're confronted with bigotry, whether the specific targets of that bigotry are around or not. If it's the former, you're not really an ally, you just play one in public.

This doesn't need to be done in a hateful or ugly way. But remaining silent is refuge of the privileged

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
14. Yes. Look to all the dynamics that cause it, which boil down to personalizing
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:35 AM
Nov 2019

... personalizing the argument. "Only a fool would believe tRump on Deep State." "So, you are calling me a fool?" "I dunno, some kinda nut to take him seriously." Even shouting at the opponent to intimidate them is personalizing the argument.

There are many logical arguments against bigotry.

Anytime the argument veers to illogic, point it out. When they attack Vindman for his origins, point out it is an ad hominen attack. Call it that. Explain the concept if necessary. Show how it applies. Then point out how they aren't able to defeat the message so they attack the messenger.

At some point, the "family member" will cross over into a personal attack. That is when to look around the whole table asking "Can we all agree to not make personal attacks?" If we can't discuss politics without making it personal, then we can't discuss politics at the family table.

Arm yourself to recognize fallacies.
An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments
Be scrupulous about not making it personal.
Call it out and get support when they make it personal.
If they instead have the support of the family, then leave the table and go home.

ck4829

(35,071 posts)
15. It'd just be nice if angry rhetoric wasn't the only thing that could take a day off
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:36 AM
Nov 2019

Really, it would be.

Put aside worrying about the future for one day
Put aside worrying about medical bills for one day
There's not going to be any homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia today
Worrying about paying for groceries OR paying for utilities? Don't worry, there's one day a year where you don't have to make that decision.


Our rhetoric is the basis of how we change minds and create reform... but we keep having to turn it off in order to foster "peace".
 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
2. No need. One thing I can actually thank Donald Trump for,
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:20 AM
Nov 2019

Is he helped me see the toxic people in my life, and made it very easy for me to cut them completely out of it.

None of those will be at the same table as me.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
3. ++ good on teen vogue. Maybe the younger white generation will see the folly of sitting silent as
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:20 AM
Nov 2019

fascists spew toxic hate on a holiday .

One can hope they realize their silence can be viewed as agreements by others that are present

Other teens however will listenand take up their relative’s torch providing another generation of the same especially if nobody in their circle ever makes a statement against it and they have been hearing the hate since a young child indoctrinated year after year by those closest to them as the article mentions the generational and social network creep

dustyscamp

(2,224 posts)
4. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:28 AM
Nov 2019

The only way we can cure these people is to keep challenging their ideas and try to change the way they think about things.

yellowdogintexas

(22,252 posts)
7. well it probably won't happen at our family gathering
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:53 AM
Nov 2019

because they will all be in lockstep with the football game. That's one way to totally avoid any issues; wolf down your dinner in time for kickoff and after that nobody talks except to yell at the team and/or the referees.

RichardRay

(2,611 posts)
6. Sage advice
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:43 AM
Nov 2019

“Before arguing with friends or family around the Thanksgiving table, take a look at the science behind arguing better,” he tweeted.

“And it'll never hurt to try this: ‘Listen to people, get them to think about their own experience, and highlight your common humanity,’” he added, citing a line from a recent article published by Vox titled “Most people are bad at arguing. These 2 techniques will make you better.”

1) Source of tweet?

2) Where did he learn that idea?

safeinOhio

(32,675 posts)
9. You can get your point across with few
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:20 AM
Nov 2019

words to shut em up. Like, will Mexico pay for it or those tax cut will pay for themselves. Crooked Hillary released 40 years of taxes because she had nothing to hide.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,760 posts)
19. Agreed. I've spent my life trying to get RW relatives to see reason on countless issues.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:03 PM
Nov 2019

Now, more than ever, they are brainwashed to the point of being unreachable.

Seeing the increased evil Pissolini & the Rs are perpetrating on our nation and world, I can find no joy spending time with people who could even imagine support that party.

My husband and I stayed home today from my parents' house where we usually go because my RW sister & her RWNJ new husband will be there. I can see my other non-RW family on other occasions when the RWers won't be there. I just can't deal with it anymore.

gordianot

(15,237 posts)
20. It is hard at first but Trumpism makes it a lot easier.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 10:14 PM
Nov 2019

I got a physical threat from one relative. He did not like my response.

H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
13. Recommended.
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:32 AM
Nov 2019

I'm lucky. My extended family is black, brown, red, yellow and white. Not a single republican among us.

LeftofObama

(4,243 posts)
16. Just do what I do...
Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:44 AM
Nov 2019

Let it be known loud and clear, far and wide, Republicans, conservative or not, are not allowed in my home. Problem solved.

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