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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPossible nightmare scenario? help me out here please!
I'm very worried that tRUMP could resign for medical reasons. (i believe under NO circumstances does he want anyone to see his taxes) i'm thinking his lawyers are telling him he will lose the taxes lawsuit. Now can someone clarify what would take place if he were to resign under these conditions? pence would become president. Would the House lose all chances of investigating the tRUMP family? What are OUR options here? TY
RKP5637
(67,030 posts)dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)RKP5637
(67,030 posts)crime family ... and cohorts.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Hope we can tie lots of people to all this bullshit, with his taxes!
captain queeg
(10,035 posts)But for the sake of the country I hope hes got some serious health issue.
Rorey
(8,445 posts)As much as I want him to get EVERYTHING he deserves, and as much as I would think it would be a travesty for him to get a state funeral (thinking ahead here ), he just needs to be gone NOW.
catbyte
(34,166 posts)really be afraid of. But you're probably right. pence will pardon them all then they will escape federal justice, but the state charges will still be in place. I knew Ford pardoning Nixon was a horrific move back in 1974 and it's come home to roost. But they will not be able to worm their way out of state charges, especially since New York closed that pardon loophole a couple of months ago.
leftieNanner
(14,997 posts)So that would shut down. The state of New York would continue.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)hlthe2b
(101,702 posts)investigate from the standpoint of passing legislation to avoid future similar issues with Executive Branch officials ignoring subpoenas, violating Hatch Act and potential ways to strengthen/define the Emoluments clause--as well as prevention of foreign election interference. While the focus would move from impeaching/punishing Trump to prevention, it could continue and evidence could potentially benefit others.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)They were BOTH deeply involved with all the bullshit as well.
Salviati
(6,002 posts)If the country can run fine for a year short a Supreme Court Justice, it can certainly operate fine for a year without someone warming the VP seat. Any VP approval has to go through Pelosi.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)bluestarone
(16,720 posts)If and i mean IF pence pardons tRUMP, can tRUMP be subpoenaed by the house for testimony against pence? or called before a GJ to testify?
erronis
(14,941 posts)Therefore trump can be compelled to testify for other crimes, such as those that pence may have committed at trump's/repuglicon behest. He also can't plead the 5th for any of his own crimes - he would have to testify accurately or risk criminal charges.
IANAL but between this site and EmptyWheel I feel like I've learned a bit of the lingo.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Yes, I think he could be a subpoenaed. But while he couldn't hide behind the Fifth Amendment (since the pardon would have removed any possibility of self-incrimination), he might try to invoke executive privilege.
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)The minute Pence becomes President, he is the President, and has all the powers of any President. He would name a VP right away, no doubt.
Nobody has anything to say about that. The Constitution makes it clear. If Trump resigns, Pence is President immediately and can do anything any President can do.
We don't get to "allow" him to do anything. Not in any way, shape, or form.
WA-03 Democrat
(3,017 posts)Goes through House approval.
Pence gets the full power of the president after being sworn in.
Salviati
(6,002 posts)
Section 2 of the Twenty-fifth Amendment provides that, "Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."[4] This procedure has been implemented twice since the amendment came into force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Vacancies
Captain Zero
(6,714 posts)would to be to confirm a Pence pick that McConnell and other GOP criminals would agree upon/.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)"Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress."
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)His VP pick would have to be approved by both houses of Congress
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)of the new President's choice very quickly, since we can't be without a VP. I don't know of any case where there was a delay or when anyone was not approved.
So, in reality, whoever the new President appoints is almost certain to be accepted by Congress.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)I hope you're wrong! We are in different times (horrible times) We need to block block block if we don't like the pick! To much at stake in this country today!
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)Fortunately, a Pence presidency is almost certain to end in January of 2021, and he'll probably live until then, so the VP choice won't matter all that much, most likely.
onenote
(42,373 posts)The first time Congress had to approve a replacement VP, the sitting president (Nixon) did the nominating. The second time, it was Nixon's nominee, Gerald Ford, who did the nominating, and unlike Pence's situation, Ford was free and clear of any suspicion that he had knowledge or involvement in Nixon's impeachable acts.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)held up.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)and, in the second case, Congress took four months to confirm the president's VP choice - not to mention how the Trump- Pence Administration has treated Congressional Democrats - it's highly unlikely the current House is going to feel much obligation to feel any obligation to show Pence any "courtesy" by quickly confirming his nominee.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Nancy will be in line if pence was taken ill? THIS would be reason that the senate and President would be careful. Is this wrong thinking?
Salviati
(6,002 posts)They have no constitutional duties, other than being a warm body to fill the office of presidency as needed. We've had many instances of vacancy in the office of VP, several lasting over 3 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States#Vacancies
If a supreme court justice's seat can go unfilled for over a year, so can the office of VP.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)President dies or becomes incapacitated.
Pence would have to pick a clean, not too ideological VP to get the House to go along. Or he picks a democrat like Joe Manchin or Tulsi Gabbard, that are suitable to him and who democrats in the House would likely not reject.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)NNadir
(33,368 posts)No Democratic President is going to appoint a criminal like Barr to the office.
If Trump dies in office, he escapes prison.
If he lives until 2021, he's going to die in prison.
Raftergirl
(1,276 posts)the House from their investigations.
There are still admin officials likely involved in the Bribery scheme and cover-up.
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)If he's not President, he can't be impeached. Odds are that Pence would issue a blanket pardon for everything Trump has done since becoming President. Possibly, he could pardon him across the board for federal crimes, even before he was President.
However, that wouldn't affect state cases at all. Still, they might get dropped too as not being worthwhile prosecuting. I don't know.
Bottom line, really, is that if Trump resigns and gets pardoned, he'll likely not face much of anything in the way of prison-time charges. I'm OK with that, as long as he is out of the White House permanently. That's where he is most dangerous.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)But we still have pence, barr, and Mcturtle and many more to investigate. I'm hoping the House will continue the whole bunch!
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)reconfigured. Really, it would have to start over from scratch. It's totally focused on Trump right now. That would end immediately on his leaving office if he resigns.
Trump knows that. He's had a couple of tough election losses in a couple of states. His popularity and influence are fading fast, and more is about to be revealed in the House. If ever there was a good time for him to step down, it's right about now.
If he waits too long, Pence might not issue the blanket pardon Trump needs. It would be too unpopular, and Pence has his eyes on the White House. I think he's foolish to think he could get elected, but I suspect he does think that.
More bad news will be coming out very soon about Trump. He can end the investigation overnight if he resigns. I think it's getting more likely that he will do that every day.
karynnj
(59,474 posts)Like any investigation - and like the Mueller investigations, it really seems to have been constructed from the bottom up. The witnesses have been defining what happened. Already, the 2 FL Giuliani guys have been indicted and Giuliani himself appears to be under FBI investigation.
If Trump resigns, what it would do is change the characterization of the hearings - as they would likely become oversight hearings rather than impeachment hearings. However, if Pence continues Trump's withholding of documents and people appearing, he opens himself to obstruction of justice charges. Also remember it will likely be an election year, he will probably throw Trump, Giuliani etc under the bus and try to make the case he was out of the loop. He would also have a cynical, personal reason NOT to pardon Trump before the election if he is running. (he might even call for the investigation to continue and claim he is anti corruption (ugh!) )
I suspect that with the Mueller investigation, where we still do not have the full report, and where we are now on this - it is too late to have a Trump resignation/ Pence swearing in that wipes everything away.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)He will almost have to because he's so deeply involved. That means he will have to stay with BARR as AG? The coverup continues!
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Will he keep barr? ( i'm thinking not) but could be wrong also VP who would that be (Nikki Haley)?
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)what I expect is no immediate changes in anything. It will be a tumultuous time in DC. Pence will accomplish nothing and nothing much will change. It will simply be a waiting period until the election in November.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Crazy times ahead for sure! Comes down to VOTE VOTE VOTE!
erronis
(14,941 posts)This seems like it has been building for many years. Perhaps since the fall of the USSR and the ascendancy of one Vlad. Of course the KGB was rather expert, back in the good old days, of causing mayhem. Perhaps better than some of our clandestine operations.
Watch out for unintended consequences. Both in the US and Russia. China and others are doing some deep analyses of these environments.
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)We have an election next year. A lot depends on that. I do hope that Democrats will see the value in having a historically large turnout of Democrats next year. That's what I hope.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)fighting state charges. NY very likely can go after him for tax evasion, and probably will-- why let a huge tax cheat who claims he's a billionaire go when he'd be a great example to the other tax payers?
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)I don't think about that at all. I just want him out of the White House before he blows up the planet.
Kaleva
(36,145 posts)Whatever were to happen to him after he's out of office is beyond my control and no one of importance is asking my opinion as what should be done, if anything, should that happen.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Until he is dead
grantcart
(53,061 posts)1) Trump will start massive pardons. Like the war crimes but also across the board hundreds for drug related crimes
2) He will pardon Stone. And IL governor Blagojevich (sp?)
3) he will fake a "catastrophic medical event" get better and then get worse (which I predicted 3 years ago.
4) Have to resign (before removal) of office to retain SS and other privileges. Gets pardon.
5) stays quiet until after the election.
6) then has infantile Twitter break down every day until the rest of his life. That is the real nightmare.
7) He will be prosecuted by NY State but it may be difficult to prosecute because most of the time he had cut outs.
Having the media start every day with their Trump 30 minutes even after he is out of office. If it appears that he is going to prison he will go to some place like Abu Dhabi and live in luxury.
Rorey
(8,445 posts)He was a Democrat, and as far as I know there would be no benefit to Conald.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)He will pick out dozens of cases including people out of prison and probably some that are dead.
NotASurfer
(2,135 posts)His last official act before leaving office will be to pardon himself for any and all crimes and misdemeanors he ever committed or ever will commit, at any level of jurisdiction, in this or any past or future lifetime, including but not limited to shooting as many people as he wants on Fifth Avenue, and dare anyone to pursue any legal action
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)I doubt that he can. Pence will pardon him, though.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Pence is very good at deciding what he wants to do is ordained by God.
He will probably piously say that God doesn't want him to pardon Trump. He isn't very bright, but he's arrogant. It's a weird combination of submission and conceit. "I'm so great, I can pretend to be Trump's little lapdog, but really I'm in charge."
MineralMan
(146,189 posts)if Trump resigns. No pardon; no resignation. Pence wants so badly to be President that he'd sign anything to get the chance. I don't think there's any question at all about the pardon - assuming a resignation by Trump. Pence would insist on that, and Trump would insist on a full, blanket pardon for all federal crimes, including any committed before he became President.
Pence would simply ask, "Where do I sign?"
Pence is a dominionist. He want's a nation run by God's rules. He's not going to get that, but that would not stop him from trying if he becomes President. However, he would only be President until 2021. He cannot win the 2020 election. Nobody really likes him, but he doesn't really know that.
Rorey
(8,445 posts)But I think he just can't fathom why.
erronis
(14,941 posts)Rorey
(8,445 posts)I don't think she likes him much.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Well, we know how that worked for Gerald Ford. Even actual Nixon supporters thought that was a craven move, and that there had probably been a deal made so that Nixon would resign and Ford would get to be president.
I think it's more likely that in 2020, no matter if Trump or Pence is at the top of the ticket, national revulsion will vomit them out of office.
And Pence is hardly free of the charge of complicity. He was all over the Zelensky extortion.
Grasswire2
(13,564 posts)Coates, Comey, Wray and Mueller all told us so UNDER OATH.
All it takes is for several states' tallies to be botched, and then referred to SCOTUS for resolution. Voila.
wheelman
(20 posts)so few can't see that what grasswire2 just said is all too likely. I actually expect it, but hope I'm wrong. Of course if I AM wrong, it would, I guess, mean the Coats, Comey, Wray and Mueller were all wrong.
Turbineguy
(37,206 posts)and all his operatives go to jail.
pbmus
(12,418 posts)You will have come close to what is going to happen with the Big Con...
Grantcart is coming very close...he just forgot to mention starting a war Iran...
Codeine
(25,586 posts)being investigated I really dont care. I just want him gone.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That we just get so worn down, we simply say, "Whatever. Just GO!"
dlk
(11,425 posts)If crimes were committed, Trumps being in office or not wouldnt impact the investigation or prosecution.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Pence most likely would give a blanket pardon, which wipes out all federal investigations.
dlk
(11,425 posts)Pence is involved in the bribery scandal, too, and other than speculation, the future is difficult to accurately predict at this point.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)So yes, the House investigation would become moot and would stop since it's main purpose (determine whether Trump violated US laws) would become irrelevant.
brettdale
(12,331 posts)Not a chance.