John Pavlovitz: This Isn't Christianity

[erronis]

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2019/11/02/this-isnt-christianity/

Keying of another discussion https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212648160 I was struck by the text and image of another from this pastor's site. FWIW, I am an atheist but appreciate truth-telling.

This isn’t Christianity

We need to be really clear on something, because there seems to be confusion out there lately:

This isn’t Christianity.

They may use the word and steal the iconography and cop the aesthetic, but that is where the resemblance diverges and where the similarities end. There remain no other commonalities with which to rightly associate the two.

This isn’t Christianity.

It is spiritual misappropriation: the violent hijacking of something helpful and weaponizing it in order to do the greatest amount of damage in the shortest amount of time. It is a hostile takeover of something beautiful and grossly disfiguring it to terrorize people with.

This isn’t Christianity—that is, not if Jesus was Christian.

If Jesus was Christian, then Christianity is:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”
— Jesus (Matthew 5:3-10)

And there is nothing of mercy or humility or purity or peacemaking in this thing claiming to be Christianity.

No, this thing is the antithesis of all of it.

...
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[patricia92243]

1. As a Christian myself, I find this sickening.

[Left-over]

14. I agree with you. This behavior has driven me away from my local churches.

[Mariana]

2. Of course this is Christianity.

There's nothing magical about Christianity that transforms its adherents into good and decent people. Pavlovitz should read some history. Christians have always behaved abominably whenever they've held political power - and they've done much worse things than Trump and his Christian groupies have dreamed of doing.

This bigoted bullshit has long since gotten old. The idea that only non-Christians can be horrible people is disgusting and hateful.

[Lochloosa]

3. Thank you.

[stopbush]

8. Bingo! The REAL Christians ARE these hateful assholes.

Period.

[patphil]

28. Not all Christians are bad, just some of them, but they were usually the ones who called the shots.

It seems to be a rule throughout history that the ones who most desire money, power, and control are the very ones who should never have it.
This is true in Government, Business, and Religion.
Every major religion has been co-opted by dark ones. Unfortunately the good catholics, christians, jews, muslims, hindus, and every other major religion end up following these people.
Blind faith is not a good thing, but it doesn't make you a bad person.
It just makes you a bad judge of character.
People need to be vigilant and discerning.
Special clothing, titles, and ceremonies don't make a leader worthy of being followed.
It's the love in their hearts that they should be judged by.


Patrick Phillips

[Mariana]

32. I never even hinted that all Christians are bad.

Pavlovitz, on the other hand, is saying that all Christians are good, and that anyone who isn't good must be a non-Christian. It is a vicious and hateful lie.

[amywalk]

36. No, he isn't saying that. Please don't make something up out of whole cloth.

[Major Nikon]

39. Yeah, that's pretty much what he is saying

It just doesn't get any better than the No True Scotsman fallacy. There's absolutely nothing original about it and it's just that easy to debunk.

Any person who does something good who happens to subscribe to the tenants of [insert belief system here]...Thanks [insert belief system here].

Any person who does something bad who happens to subscribe to the tenants of [insert belief system here]...Well they must not have been a true believer of [insert belief system here].

[Mariana]

40. He says, "This isn't Christianity."

He doesn't say, "These are bad Christians who are doing Christianity wrong." He denies that they're Christian at all.

[patphil]

38. Oh good heaven no! Not all Christians are good.

But then, for those the label "Christian" is nothing more than that.
It's a pretext; a sham; a false representation; nothing more than a way to deceive.
I've seen enough of them in my days.

[Mariana]

41. "It's a pretext; a sham; a false representation; nothing more than a way to deceive."

In other words, they're non-Christians.

"I've seen enough of them in my days."

How, exactly, do you identify a non-Christian who is pretending to be a Christian?

[Major Nikon]

43. Easy

If they do something you don't like they must be a pretend Christian. If they do something you like, then they must be a real Christian. It works just like any other purity test.

Not all that surprisingly the same people depicted in the picture almost certainly view liberal Christians non-Christians.

[patphil]

48. They don't follow the teachings of Jesus.

What people say, and what they do is the test.
Jesus taught a philosophy of love.
Those who follow that philosophy will show true over time.
Those who don't will also show what they truly are.
It's not something you can see casually, it is their actions over time that defines them.
For example, it's one thing to get angry at something, that's understandable in everyday life.
But those who are constantly living a life where anger is a large part of their expression are not Christian.
Also, a Christian wouldn't look for ways to fan the fires of fear, anger, and hatred.
There a a lot of people who claim to be Christians but do just that. The KKK is filled with Christians who, to this day, carry a whole load of hate for black people.
There are white supremacists who chanted "Jews will not replace us." I am willing to bet a lot of them think they are Christian.
There are people who claim to be Christian but have no trouble separating children from their parents at our southern border, and place those children in cages.
They are Christians in name only. To paraphrase Jesus, "What so ever you do to the least of my children, that you do also unto me."
It's one thing to call yourself a Christian, its another to live a Christian life.
Labels don't mean a thing if you can't back it up with actions.

Patrick Phillips

[Mariana]

62. Following the teachings of Jesus equals being a good person.

Isn't that pretty much what it boils down to? So really, we're right back to saying only non-Christians can be bad people.

Why is it so difficult to say that there are true Christians who just really suck at being Christian? Most of these people you say aren't Christians have a real faith in Jesus. They interpret the book differently than you do, their churches preach a different message, they have a different idea of God's will, and of their role as followers of Christ. Nevertheless, their faith is genuine.

Figuring out Jesus's teaching must be a very complicated business. If it were as simple as you say to determine what Christianity is supposed to be, would we have all these thousands of different varieties of Christianity? The members of all those different varieties of Christianity are certain that they are right, and that everyone else is doing it wrong.

[patphil]

63. They do suck at being Christians.

That is what I'm saying when I say that they are Christians in name only.
I never said that only non-Christians can be bad people.
There are plenty of people who use the Christian name to justify their non-christian, bad behavior.
However, if you follow the actual, love based, teachings of Jesus, the chances of you being a good person are very high.
My personal feeling is that Jesus' teachings are easy follow. They are plainly set out in the New Testament.
Too much of Christianity is bogged down in Old Testament teachings...things like condemning homosexuality.
None of that is relevant to me.
I have no problem with there being many variants of Christianity. There are many interpretations of his teachings.
But, there are groups that put their own beliefs into the mix, such as the Westboro Baptists, that have gone far afield from the actual teachings of Jesus.
Also, those groups that put forth a "fire and brimstone" message, and talk about an angry God.
Now how can God be God and get angry with his creation?
Jesus taught love, not fear, anger, and hatred.
People who love Jesus but preach fear, anger, and hatred have a real problem. It's just not possible to love Jesus and do this.
Those people are not TRUE Christians because they violate the fundamental teaching of Jesus. They claim the name but don't follow the him.
I'm sure Torquemada felt he was a good Catholic, but his actions were vile to say the least. He was acting consistently with his religious belief, but was actually pursuing a demonic path.
I'm sure the nuns that ran the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland felt they were good Catholics, but history has shown how little love many of them felt for their charges.
Those nuns failed to follow that single most important aspect of Jesus' teachings.
They were Catholic in name only.
I've used Catholic examples because that is my background.
It's the same if you are Catholic, or Christian.
You can claim the name, but it doesn't really mean you are what you claim.
You have to live the true message of Jesus...Love.

Patrick Phillips

[Major Nikon]

42. It's fair to say Christianity wouldn't exist today were it not such an effective means of control

Had the dominate western civilization of the day not adopted it as it's official religion and suppressed others on pain of death for centuries, it would have died out just like many other splinter Jewish sects from that time.

[Maru Kitteh]

44. EXACTLY. "Christianity" is exactly what any particular Christian decides it is.

Anyone who declares themselves a Christian, is.

Anybody can cherry-pick whatever the hell they want from that book, and they do. It's like watching people fight over who's a REAL fan of "The Princess Bride" because they have differing opinions over the best lines.

[Cartaphelius]

4. Every one of the sycophants pictured

except, for trump, of course would insist imprisoning children and
slaughters Kurds was their god's answer to their prayer to padding
their wealth and position over the least of us....

If it isn't true prove it by naming one of the biggest Christians, that
is fighting against Trump.

The Pope doesn't count either.

[Demanchor]

31. This is a type of Christianity

They applauded the speech of Armageddon. They are excited for well over 90% of humanity to be obliterated by either war or god phenomena.

I was raised in an end times revelation religion. They are excited! It is biblical. They are doing the best they can to help their evil god prove them right.

Please stop using their book and their beliefs against them it will never work.

Just stand firm without using their evil as a wedge.

I understand you may have family like I do, or friends, or neighbors... stay firm in your beliefs and understanding without using their stated beliefs against them.

Jesus was NOT A CHRISTIAN

Some who call themselves Christians are good people.... some are not.

[Skittles]

33. their "stated beliefs" are nonsense

these are people who claim to be Christians while supporting a pussy grabbing con man who puts kids in cages

FUCK them

ANYONE who still support Trump at this point is a LOST CAUSE

[Cartaphelius]

64. Ah... the promoters

of Armageddon know no religious boundaries.

They all just live to blow each other up. And as soon as possible!

[NCLefty]

5. "It is a hostile takeover of something beautiful"-If it's false, it's about as beautiful as

any other work of fiction. Only this one has gobs of sanctioned genocide, slavery, etc.

Christianity is soul extortion; You can't leave or you burn. They even tell you the rules were all written down by men. Derp-a-derp-a-derp.

And then there's the message it still has for women...

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

There ya have it. Women are to blame for all the ills of the universe (sin) and can only save themselves but shutting up and popping out babies. This is in EVERY christian bible... still!

[Hekate]

11. That quote sounds like Paul The Misogynist, not Jesus

Just sayin'

[Python boot]

15. I agree Paul co-opted the Early Christian teachings

All those letters from Paul were included in the Bible when emperor Constantine decided the Roman Empire would become Christian. Pauls letters contradict the teachings of Jesus in so many ways. Paul is the go to guy for all the RW nut jobs.

[Blue_true]

37. Paul the Baptist was the first grifter.

He was originally known as Paul of Tarsus, a devout and noted practitioner of the religion that was once the most powerful, but which Paul saw Christianity surplanting, so he became a devout practioner of his new gravytrain.

[ChubbyStar]

52. Wasn't he Saul of Tarsus?

Blinded on the road to Damascus? Then saw the $$$$$$. I have long hated this asshole.

[Blue_true]

60. I could have gotten the name wrong. I read the historical account a while back. nt

[Hekate]

59. He wasn't the Baptist. That was John, Jesus's slightly older cousin. ...

The one who got his head cut off at Salome's request.

[Solomon]

61. I call today's Christians "Paulines" because Paul is

who they follow, not Jesus.

[Silver Gaia]

17. It is.

[NCLefty]

53. Why is it still in the bible then? Even NIV has it.

Which is the one that was recently updated to "be more modern."

[Hekate]

57. You've got to go back to the first several centuries, when the Gospels got written down & codified

Last edited Sun Nov 3, 2019, 12:37 PM - Edit history (1)

First, it was oral transmission, while people waited for Jesus to come back in an immediate sense. Then as the first generation of believers began to die off, it became necessary for things to be written down -- and for various versions to be compared and decisions made about what was the real version of events.

Saul of Tarsus, later called Paul, never met Jesus except in a vision, but he wrote extensively. All those Letters (Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Thessalonians and on and on and on) were Paul tying together the widely scattered congregations. In an organizational sense, he really was a founder, so what he said and did was important.

The Council of Nicaea wasn't until 325...

In any case, you've got to go back a long way to examine what was and was not included, and to parse out why. If you just want the words of Jesus, they are in there -- at least as people best remembered -- and they differ from Saul-called-Paul in ways that cause dispute from that day to this. It's just that Jesus did not set out to organize anything, and when he didn't come back other people did.

ETA: Forgot to add that it was those various Councils that determined what texts got included in what became the Christian Bible, both Old and New Testaments. There are some Apocrypha, books that have been added back into some versions, but on the whole the official thing is set in concrete aside from new translations.

[Hekate]

58. You might check out the "Thomas Jefferson Bible." He took a sharp pair of scissors to everything...

...that was not the words of Jesus. Made a much smaller volume.

[Duppers]

21. My Christian mother believed

This nonsense and imposed restrictions.

[Major Nikon]

47. All Abrahamic religions have some version of the original sin

Within all of them you will see it used as justification for discrimination based on gender, forced modesty (almost exclusively toward women), and promotion of the disparity between gender roles.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. It's a conservative prayer orgy.

[struggle4progress]

7. The gospel teaches us to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable

but these folk just further afflict the afflicted while comforting the already comfortable

A rich man dressed in fine purple linen and led a life of luxury. And a poor man called Lazarus was laid beside his gate, covered with sores. Lazarus longed to be fed with the scraps from the rich man’s table: the dogs came to lick his sores.

The poor man died, and angels carried him to Abraham’s bosom.

The rich man also died and was buried; and from far away among the dead, he saw Lazarus in the arms of Abraham. ‘Father Abraham!’ he cried out, ‘please pity me. I am in agony in these flames. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue.’

Abraham replied, ‘Remember you used to have ood things while Lazarus suffered. Now he is comforted and you are in agony. There is a chasm between you and us, so that those who want to go to you from this side cannot do so, nor can people come to us from your side.’

The rich man said, ‘Then I beg you to send him to my father’s house where I have five brothers so he can warn them to prevent their coming to this place of torture.’

Abraham said, ‘They already have Moses and the Prophets: let them listen to them.’

‘Ah, Abraham,’ said the rich man, ‘they would change completely if only someone came to them from the dead.’

‘No,’ Abraham told him, ‘if they will not listen to Moses and the Prophets, not even someone risen from the dead could convince them.’

Luke 16

[defacto7]

9. Truth is truth no matter where you find it.

It's not about whether one Christian is a true Scotsman or not, it's about how humans treat each other. All the above mentioned virtues are ancient truths in the context of Abrahamic religion and not the sole ownership of Christianity. This is an unimportant diversion. It diminishes the point of value which is about coming to grips with humanity's inhumanity and seeking the cure no matter where it comes from.

[usaf-vet]

10. In the meantime Trump is thinking. Ok the picture has been taken GET THESE IDIOTS OUT OF HERE!

As usual, Trump resorts to stunts.
Trump only believes in one greater power...MONEY, MONEY, MONEY...more, more, more AMEN.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. Well, all except for his "personal pastor"

[usaf-vet]

49. Is that Ivanka. His demeanor sure looks that way.

[Maru Kitteh]

50. I'm sure that's what he's fantasizing about. I'm just upset that we're paying for her.

Our tax dollars, being paid to his "spiritual advisor" Paula White. I'm sure David Duke approves. Even her name is KKK approved.

[bronxiteforever]

12. Matthew 6:5,6 How not to pray per Jesus

New International Version
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

[OldBaldy1701E]

16. Full On Bingo!

I was about to add that same passage.

[OMGWTF]

13. They shall wear the mark of the Beast upon their foreheads equals MAGA caps

[Mr.Bill]

18. That is a picture of a bunch of con men and women.

Liars and thieves, all of them.

[Grokenstein]

19. For contrast, this is reputedly what Nixon did

at a similar moment in his career:

President Nixon started crying. At first, it was a teary-eyed hope that his resignation wouldn’t overshadow his long career, but soon, it broke down into sobbing as the President lamented the failures and the disgrace he had brought to his country. Nixon — a man who never wore his Quaker religion on his sleeve — turned to Kissinger and asked him if he would pray with him. Despite being Jewish, Kissinger felt he had no choice but to kneel with the President as Nixon prayed for peace — both for his country and for himself.

After finishing his prayer, Nixon remained in a kneeling position while silently weeping, tears streaming down the large jowls often caricatured by political cartoonists. Kissinger looked over and saw the President lean down, burying his face in the Lincoln Sitting Room’s carpet and slamming his fist against the ground crying, “What have I done? What has happened?”. Nixon and Kissinger both disliked physical affection and Nixon in particular hated being touched, but Kissinger didn’t know any other way to console his weary, broken boss. Softly patting Nixon’s back at first, Kissinger embraced Nixon in a hug and held the President of the United States until he calmed down and the tears stopped flowing. Kissinger helped Nixon up to his feet and the men shared another drink, talking openly about what role Nixon could have in the future as a former President.

https://medium.com/@Anthony_Bergen/what-have-i-done-the-final-hours-of-richard-nixon-s-presidency-40ffbeac6c44

Republicans have only gotten worse. Nixon, Raygun, Poppy, Li'l Dubby...and now, this flatulent disaster beholden to our enemies, and all of his insidious toadies and enablers.

[erronis]

26. That's a powerful passage. Hard to feel a little bit of sympathy for a person who has failed

so badly.

Not sure I'll have much for this current failure, however.

[Ferrets are Cool]

20. Just to throw a bit of humor in a humorless image....

maybe they were "laying hands on him" in an attempt to drive out the demon.

[keithbvadu2]

24. Maybe...

When Trump is finally gone, sooner or later, watch to see who reinterprets this praise worship.

[gibraltar72]

22. I beg to differ with you

These Christstains are practicing the laying on of hands. The pResident has done that many times with unsuspecting women.

[erronis]

27. No disagreement with you. And his blatant misogyny reeks of evil, incarnate.

[keithbvadu2]

23. Jesus was not a Christian. Jesus lived and died a Jew.

Jesus was not a Christian. Jesus lived and died a Jew.

[roamer65]

29. It's a pseudo-religious cult.

Same as the People’s Temple and Jim Jones.

[Brainfodder]

30. Praying away the?

Grifts don't work that?

OH, IC....

[AlexSFCA]

34. nope, it's the definition of christianity

same with cathofreaks and their endless sexual abuse of minors; you pick your poison. Christianity has always been about power and oppression. Jesus was never xtian, any reference to him is completely irrelevant, he was a Jew.
The reality is that trump is exposing christianity for what it really is, w/o sugarcoating as it is often portrayed.

[Collimator]

35. Christianity is what a given person decides that it is.

There was a time when I had my own ideas of what a "real" Christian was.

Without going into a song and dance about my own experiences, I will simply say that it is the individual who determines the character of the Christianity (or any religion/worldview/philosophy) that they practice.

Yes, I have heard people bear witness that before they knew Jesus they were very different, bad people. Regardless of the trigger, it was their own decision to change and strive to be a different person.

In our western culture, we have heard about the abuses and misuses of Christianity and Islam. Most of us think that Buddhists are basically peaceful people, though, even if we don't follow or understand that religion.

Well, there were Buddhists engaged in the violent attacks, (including rape) of the Rohingya peoples in Myanmar.

There are Moslems who are offended by the notion that Sharia Law is actually coded into Islam by the Koran. There are Hindus who are aghast at the idea of burning widows on their husband's funeral pyres. And there are Amish who run puppy mills.

The label on the person is not what provides them with content. Their contents should be properly listed on their label.

[kentuck]

45. These "Christians" need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.

They are lost sheep.

[Takket]

51. If you want to know what makes these people tic....

Watch the Netflix documentary “The Family”. Then it will all make sense to you.

[Kablooie]

54. This is extremely disturbing.

They worship the man, not the office.
He is the living breathing god to them.

This is Jim Jones and David Koresh running our country.
It's sick, disturbed and they must all be destroyed or they will destroy us.

[Peace06]

55. Erronis

Great Post! This needed to be said and repeatedly! There are many great people who are good Christians who live their faith. But this prosperity teaching is in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus, as you so aptly explained. Thank you for your very important post.

[greyl]

56. Yeah, except turns out it is. nt