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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Conspiracy in the Ukraine
There is so much we still do not know about Ukraine.
Trump was working with his Ambassadors to get dirt on the Bidens and and the 2016 election. We know about Trump's phone call to the Ukraine president, Zelensky. We know about their efforts to cover it up in a secret server. The evidence is strong that the President of the United States was putting undue and dangerous pressure on the Ukraine president to make a public appearance and announce that he was beginning an investigation into Joe Biden's son and the 2016 DNC server. He was going to withhold a visit to the White House until it happened.
However, in the background, while all this was happening, there was a shadow group, led by Rudy Giuliani, that was working to get rid of the Ukraine Ambassador, Masha Yovanovitch. She was eventually fired by Donald Trump. But, what was Giuliani doing? Who was he working for?
At different times, he would say he was the president's lawyer and at other times, he would say he was working for the State Department? What was he trying to accomplish? And why did he have the two Ukrainian "associates" working with him? Who was paying him money?
It now appears that he may have been working with the old Russian associates of Paul Manafort. He had visited him several times in prison, and reportedly, communicated thru Manafort's lawyer. It was part of the old corrupt group that was voted out by the Ukrainian people. But Giuliani was still working the back channels.
Vladimir Putin is financing Dymytri Firtash to disrupt and do harm to democracies around the world. Firtash was in charge when Manafort was working successfully to put in a Russian puppet as leader of Ukraine. Firtash was forced from the country and took refuge in Vienna, Austria.
It now appears that Russia was working, and is still working, to tear down America's democracy, as well as others in Europe and around the world? More than anything, Putin wants Ukraine back under Russia's control. Those are the undercurrents of the conspiracy.
Unfortunately, we do not know the details of this part of the Ukraine story. But the story, as we know it already, is devastating. The conspiracy may never be resolved?
safeinOhio
(32,523 posts)toll road that leads to Putin.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)Rudy would be the Joker .
Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)kentuck
(110,947 posts)...but I didn't think about robbing the bank?
Buckeyeblue
(5,491 posts)2naSalit
(86,031 posts)colludyrudy is manfort 2.0. Manafort was caught and imprisoned so ghouliani has been assigned to finish the job. And he, just like manafort, is broke and scrounging for cash all the time.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)These are the world's most brazen criminals. But, if we recall, the Feds got Al Capone for income tax evasion.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)There will need to be a truth and reconciliation commission or something when we get our new president and admin. We should demand it. And I think it will be necessary in order to show everyone why we had to take such drastic measures. Things could get really ugly if that isn't a follow-up to the removal.
Wish I had taken the time to read your response before I posted the same thing!
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)yours was more eloquent!
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)that Rudy had been getting "information" from Manafort through his lawyer, I had hoped more of those on CNN, MSNBC, the Washington Post, and New York Times would connect the dots.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)I thought Rachel Maddow or Lawrence O'Donnell would go there a couple times but they also seem to keep getting interrupted by breaking news. Perhaps they'll get a chance to make that argument soon. Maybe it's going to come out in the public hearings... like the last straw for the public as the "tapes" were for Nixon.
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)is going to prepare a tight case, which won't be as expansive as the Mueller Report. But both Rachel and Lawrence are good options. Perhaps DU could lobby either/both to investigate and report upon this. Stranger things have been known to happen!
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)I have noticed that in some reporting it seems as though someone in that group is monitoring DU. I hope we are a voice that they notice as a lot of good info comes to light here.
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)It is important to examine Paul Manafort's role in the Trump-Ukraine business, too. It wasn't a coincidence that he was brought into the Trump campaign.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)H2O Man
(73,308 posts)the Reagan administration holds the #1 position for most members being convicted of crimes. You have to work hard to beat the Nixon administration. But it seems possible, even likely, that the Trump administration will win the gold .....but it depends upon our taking the White House, hence DoJ, in 2020. Otherwise, Barr will continue to obstruct.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)It is all connected.
Russia helped to get Trump in the White House in 2016 and Trump was looking for a different player to help him this time around.
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)Hence, the need for the grand jury transcripts. There is more than a little overlap. Indeed, it's the same gang of crooks running both operations.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)It is a continuing crime.
On post #16, I noted I am waiting for some journalists to make some of the connections. Your OP/thread might result in my contacting a few of them with a "roadmap" this afternoon.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)Why would Giuliani visit Manafort "several" times?
H2O Man
(73,308 posts)Back in the old days, when David Shuster worked at MSNBC, it was easier to pass on tips. The infamous DU "Plame Threads" were enjoyed by more than forum members. But there are other routes.
triron
(21,914 posts)2naSalit
(86,031 posts)Barr screwed Mueller for $1000, Alex.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)It sure looks like Russia was setting up camp in Ukraine to provide a base for operations. Working out of Ukraine would give Russia cover. Now, they are using Ukraine for the coverups. Worst case scenario for Putin is a Democratic takeover as he would start at the bottom and not be trusted on anything. The investigations would continue unabated.
kentuck
(110,947 posts)All roads lead to Putin.