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[Cetacea]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Cetacea) on Sat Sep 28, 2019, 04:31 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Johnny2X2X]

1. What is in E cigarette liquids?

How are they manufactured? Just because smoking is bad for you doesn't mean that vaping isn't, we simply don't know yet. It's very possible in its present form that vaping is worse than smoking.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

4. But the deaths we've seen recently

are the result of blackmarket THC pods that had Vitamin E in them. Which is horrible. The answer is to make weed legal. Those states with legal weed and controlled THC pods for vaping did not have the deaths.

[superpatriotman]

5. Dont muddy up the narrative with facts

That negates the propaganda!

[They_Live]

62. yeah n/t

[RKP5637]

12. The damn pot prohibition in the US is lame and stupid, and was a Nixon ploy. Fuck, people are stupid

and often they go into politics and get elected!

[mr_lebowski]

7. The kind that the vast majority of people use? There's very little mystery there my friend ...

70-100% ... Vegetable Glycerin (water-soluble, so safe you can enema with it)
0-30% ... Propylene Glycol (water soluble, used in asthma inhalers and to moisturize air in hospitals)
Very tiny %'s ... water-soluble food flavorings, such as are used to make frostings, candies, etc
Very tiny %'s ... Rx-Grade Nicotine (water soluble).

There are 0 known carcinogens involved. There's no 'manufacturing' involved in the juice. You just mix the ingredients in a mixer for a few minutes.

Just because smoking is bad for you also doesn't mean VAPING IS ... now does it?

It's exceptionally unlikely that vaping in it's present form is 'worse than smoking'. Such a supposition basically defies all currently known science on human health. There's a VERY VERY, VERY small chance that's true, yes, granted.

[Clash City Rocker]

27. Yes, but those with nicotine that are marketed to teens are disturbing, aren't they?

Nicotine is highly addictive, and it’s hard to argue that they don’t market the product to teens. Yes, cigarettes and other products are worse, but that doesn’t make all vaping harmless.

[coti]

51. Marketed to teens, or just marketed?

What are vaping companies supposed to do, especially when they're trying to market their product to people who are already addicted to (deadly) cigarettes? Aren't these things supposed to be appealing to...human beings, as in flavors?

[Mariana]

99. The vaping companies aren't supposed to sell pleasant flavors.

Because, as we all know, adults don't like to taste anything sweet or fruity. Only kids like that.

That assertion that e-cigs are being "marketed to teens" gets thrown around frequently, with zero evidence - except the very existence of flavored e-liquid.

[Callmecrazy]

54. Nicotine is not as physically addictive as you might think...

Before I took up vaping, I researched it.
An institute took a number(100?) of people that had never touched a cigarette and had them vape for a few weeks or months, I don't remember, and then took away their vape. None. Not one of the test subjects had withdrawal symptoms.
The half life of nicotine is too short to be addictive. I think it's the additives, like ammonia, that the industry put in tobacco that makes it so addictive.
As soon as I heard about the deaths, I knew it had to be dirty juice. It was the only sensible answer. It's been safe all this time, and SUDDENLY kids are dying.
NEVER USE CHINESE JUICE. They don't give a fuck what they put in their juices, including heavy metals.

[mr_lebowski]

64. Nicotine is addictive, but the claims some people like to make about how it's 'more so than heroin'

are a friggin' joke.

The reason that kicking nicotine is hard is because it's AVAILABLE, LEGAL and CHEAP.

If you took a person who was addicted to cigs and heroin, involuntarily locked them up, and came to them 3 days in with a bag of dope and pack of cigs and said ... which one would you like?

I'm here to tell ya, from ... reasonably close personal experience ... that person is diving for that bag of heroin so fucking fast it'd make your head spin.

I suppose others might argue differently with some degree of reason, but to ME? That's the real test of 'what's more addictive'.

Cigs are really hard to quit because they're right there, they're not that costly, and you can't go to jail for using them. They don't totally fuck up your life like opioids do. It's not as OBVIOUS that smokes are ruining your life as it is with opioids.

Which frankly, opioids wouldn't do nearly as badly EITHER ... if you could just go down to the corner store and buy a days worth of Dilaudid for $8 ... but that's a different subject ...

[JonLP24]

93. It is close to being as addictive as heroin

It may not be as harmful to the body as heroin is though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness#/media/File%3ADrug_danger_and_dependence.svg

[jayfish]

104. When Smoked. -NT-

[Revanchist]

55. That's like saying fruity alcoholic drinks are marketed towards children.

Adults enjoy sweet things also. Vaping liquids are subject to the same age restrictions as other nicotine products. If merchants are selling them illegally then punish them, not the legitimate consumers. I turn 49 this month and am currently vaping a strawberries and cream liquid. Why should I suffer because kids are getting their hands on products they shouldn't be able to?

[jayfish]

13. Well.

0-100% Vegetable glycerin (GRAS)
0-100% Propylene glycol (GRAS)
0-6% Nicotine
0-3% Flavoring (GRAS)

And no, it's not anywhere near as bad as smoking let alone worse.

Government says vaping 95% safer than smoking in push to get smokers to switch to e-cigarettes

YOU not knowing what's in the liquid does not mean "WE" don't know what's in it.

[BootinUp]

22. Propylene glycol is main ingredient. Nt

[coti]

44. Vegetable glycerin is also used, or in combination with propylene glycol nt

[SoCalNative]

32. The ones sold by reputable e-cigarette companies

list their ingredients on the packaging. As an example, Juul pods (at least the tobacco flavored ones) contain the following ingredients:

Glycerol
Propolene Glycol
Flavor
Nicotine
Benzoic acid

[BooScout]

37. Ummmm no...

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/long-term-vaping-far-safer-than-smoking-says-landmark-study/

Long-term vaping 'far safer than smoking' says 'landmark' study

"Vaping has been endorsed by health experts after the first long-term study of its effects in ex-smokers," ITV News reports.

E-cigarettes contain nicotine but not many of the harmful substances produced by smoking tobacco, such as tar or carbon monoxide. However, there has been debate about exactly how safe their long-term use is.

The study, involving 181 smokers or ex-smokers, has been described as "landmark" as it is thought to be the first (or at least one of the first) looking at long-term vaping outcomes in "real world" users. Previous studies of this kind have mainly relied on laboratory equipment, or animal research, to estimate the long-term effects of e-cigarettes.

(More)https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/long-term-vaping-far-safer-than-smoking-says-landmark-study/

[LanternWaste]

107. Those seem like two questions you could easily research for us.

Those seem like two questions you could easily research for us (if they are in fact, sincere). I look forward to your findings and their objective analyses.

[mr_lebowski]

2. EVERYONE NEEDS TO READ THIS ARTICLE ...

Sad that I have to rely on the National Review author to talk some sense into people, but this article is DEAD ON RIGHT.

A credible estimate is that e-cigarettes, which involve inhaling a nicotine-infused vapor rather than smoke, are about 95 percent less harmful than cigarettes.

The vaping-related illnesses that have recently garnered headlines and prompted the regulatory actions appear not to implicate standard vaping — despite loose statements to the contrary by politicians and in the press. Early evidence suggests the use of black-market liquids containing THC, the active ingredient in cannabis. It’s possible that an acetate, added to thicken the THC oil, may be the cause. The New York Department of Health found “very high levels of vitamin E acetate in nearly all cannabis-containing samples analyzed.”

The problem with the flavor bans — and especially a San Francisco-style outright ban — is its effect on adult e-cigarette users.

About 11 million adults vape, and some percentage of them are former smokers or would be smoking in the absence of e-cigarettes. A robust study in the United Kingdom found that vaping is twice as effective as other common nicotine replacements in getting smokers to quit. The flavors, according to surveys of users, are a big draw for smokers quitting traditional cigarettes.

The U.K. has adopted a much more sensible approach that welcomes e-cigarettes as an important harm-reduction measure. According to a report in The Guardian, a couple of National Health Service hospitals have even allowed vape shops to open on their premises.

That would cause a hue and cry in the United States, where we can’t agree on anything except, apparently, our irrational hostility to a product that is an alternative to a terrible public health scourge.

[Docreed2003]

9. +1

[RKP5637]

14. As usual, the US goes into a panic mode and does something irrational and stupid before all the

facts are gathered and substantiated.

[coti]

28. Absolutely right. Harm. Reduction.

Some folks just can't see it. But it should be telling that corrupted idiot-boy Trump is for vaping bans.

[paleotn]

38. Your lungs

did not evolve to be drug absorption organs.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Neither did veins, but we poke needles in there all the time.

[paleotn]

68. You're kidding right? Right?

Millions dead from smoking related diseases hope you're kidding....if they weren't dead that is.

[AtheistCrusader]

95. You said drug absorption organs. That is not limited to smoking.

Don't feign outrage when you were the one that wasn't specific.

Some literature, if you are actually interested.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4334339/

This one is aerosol delivery of Insulin for Type 2 Diabetics.
One product was withdrawn from the market, one is in phase 3 trial, and another in development.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4787057/

[Callmecrazy]

60. Of course they are...

Fastest way to the brain is through the lungs. Faster than a needle.

[paleotn]

73. They evolved to uptake O2 from air.

Everything else is mere happenstance. Chronic exposure to anything but clean air is destructive to lung tissue. The evidence is staggering in it's depth and breadth. Or should we be giving the Koch's awards for providing such a wide range of interesting chemicals for our alveoli to absorb?

[Callmecrazy]

81. And through human ingenuity we have learned that they do much more... n/t

[mr_lebowski]

65. An interesting factoid ... one which has WHAT relevance, exactly?

[paleotn]

67. Death rates for those who inhale...

the products of combustion. Very well documented, I might add. Or the substances mixed with water used to transfer nicotine molecules to the alveoli. Treat your lungs with respect or suffer the consequences. You'll get limited sympathy from me if you don't.

[mr_lebowski]

75. "Or the substances mixed with water used to transfer nicotine molecules to the alveoli. "

That part being entirely undocumented as having anything whatsoever to do with 'death rates' ... so why did you throw it in, exactly?

[paleotn]

79. 8 dead. Hundreds visiting an ICU.

CDC even has a name for it now. Nice. You know, you sound like a cigarette ad from the 1940's. We all know how THAT ended up.

[mr_lebowski]

80. A problem with ZERO positive association with traditional nicotine vaping products of any kind ...

The CDC isn't even recommending people quit vaping nicotine products, although they've admittedly said 'to be 100% sure, you shouldn't vape anything' ... if they thought there was even a semi-high chance nicotine vaping products were the cause, they would be explicitly telling everyone to stop, now.

Instead, they're saying 'do not buy anything off THE STREET, or add anything on your own to anything you vape'.

You're basically hyping the association of two things that, at this point, show no actual signs of being related, other than the delivery method.

Its kinda like ... if we heard that kids are buying some unknown substance off the street, wrapping it in rolling papers, and smoking it, then getting deathly ill ... you'd be saying 'everyone needs to stop smoking Marlboro's else you're gonna end up in the hospital with this deadly illness!'.

Mark my words ... this illness? Has NOTHING TO DO with vaping nicotine e-juice (flavored or otherwise) from reputable sources.

[Doremus]

111. You do know that e-cigs have been available for over 10 years now, right?

They were the reason I was able to give up a 30+year 3-pack-a-day habit that just about killed me. Nothing else worked, not patches, not gum, not cold turkey.

As soon as I learned of their existence I jumped on the bandwagon and joined the other early adopters who sought an alternative to deadly tobacco smoke.

Now 10 years later a Chinese bootlegger laces their juice with a harmful chemical and 8 people die. Instead of rushing to judgment and pronouncing all e-cigs evil, we need to investigate this particular incident and see if there are any safeguards to prevent its reoccurrence. People have been vaping for 10 years without such deaths. To throw out the one thing that has helped so many people kick the habit is not only stupid but will contribute to even more deaths.

[rockfordfile]

112. National Review crap

[mr_lebowski]

115. And yet ... 100% factual.

15 years ago NR published a major article saying it was time to end the war on drugs as well.

Just because it's them ... doesn't mean it's wrong.

[superpatriotman]

3. From my cold, dead hands

you will take my vape

[mr_lebowski]

58. What's funny is in AZ I already buy unflavored e-juice, been doing so for years ...

And then I buy little bottles of food flavoring that they sell at the same store ... squirt it into the unflavored e-juice, et voila ...

Which ANYBODY will be able to do. They're not suddenly going to make food flavoring illegal, you can get it by amazon or 1000's of other vendors.

This whole idea is as stupid as banning a pre-made Screwdrivers from being sold at stores (cause it's 'flavored') ... when the same store also sells vodka and orange juice.

[LexVegas]

6. I have never smoked or vaped, but can relate my wife's experience as a decades long smoker.

She has been vaping for about 5 years. Her smokers cough is gone, and she generally feels better. She also controls the amount of nicotine she vapes, and it is much less than a cigarette. Banning vaping will absolutely lead to many many people going back to smoking cigarettes.

[diva77]

8. Gee, there wouldn't be Big Tobacco money behind this, or anything, would there?

[mathematic]

10. You're right, big tobacco has their hands in all the big vape companies

It's no surprise that they're trying to obfuscate public health impacts of vaping as they're directly profiting off it. Plus, they've seen studies that show that teens that get addicted to nicotine via vaping are FAR more likely to start smoking cigarettes. So it's a win-win. Profit off of vaping and profit off newly addicted next generation when they start smoking.

Or did you mean that you think there's a Big Tobacco conspiracy trying to shut down Big Tobacco's largest, profit-driving growth market they've seen in decades? LOL.

[jayfish]

18. That's Not What's Happening Here.

You need to think deeper about this. The objective is and always was to kill e-cigarettes and drive people back to the real money maker. Cigarettes. Vapers go through a natural evolution and eventually break free of BT by moving to advanced systems that BT doesn't servie. Once they are free of BT they can and do slowly ween themselves off of nicotine. ...if they so choose.

[coti]

30. No. Vaping is making tobacco obsolete- and that is a GOOD THING.

Because TOBACCO- not nicotine- kills a HALF A FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE PER YEAR, just in the United States.

[unblock]

86. nicotine itself is dangerous and causes increased heart attack risk.

and nicotine is derived from tobacco, so vaping won't make tobacco obsolete, at least not as long is it's nicotine people are vaping.

[Cetacea]

116. Like caffeine?

Nicotine is also a possible preventative for Alzheimer's disease, a true epidemic.

[RKP5637]

15. Yep, exactly my thought!!! Big Tobacco money behind this ... and money to our ever so honest

politicians. And then the scientific view that will lie when paid upon command.

[mr_lebowski]

61. Behind the flavored e-juice bans you mean? Oh yeah, you're definitely onto something there.

The flavored e-juice companies are NOT OWNED by Big Tobacco, they're small businesses and mom-and-pops that have grown into a multi-billion dollar business overall.

What big tobacco wants ... is big REGULATION, that ONLY THEY have the kind of money to pay the fees on to get products approved.

They want the mom and pops that they DON'T OWN ... that make the flavored juices ... OUT OF BUSINESS, and for the ONLY E-CIGS you can buy ... to be Juul, and Blu, and all that drug store crap that costs 4-10 MORE MONEY than the juices you buy from mom and pop ... why? Because they have money in Juul and Blu.

If you think these flavoring bans are not 100% EXACTLY what Big Tobacco wants? You're 100% wrong.

[coti]

63. "Trump wants it" is truly outstanding evidence that an idea is a really bad one nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. I think there are certain risks on inhaling any sort of foriegn substance through the lungs.

And yes, that includes cannabis as well. Sorry.

[HipChick]

17. My grandfather owned a tobacco farm..

He would smoke tobacco leaves..no filter...lived to be 98..go figure..

[jayfish]

21. BT spikes the chemical (carcinogen) content...

of raw tobacco to enhance it's addictive qualities. Granddad never inhaled that crap. ...and good on him.

[paleotn]

43. And that anecdotally proves what?

My father died of a smoking related illness. Not quickly by any means and certainly not painlessly. It took a decade for a big strong man to be reduced to a mere shell......along with millions upon millions of others.

[colorado_ufo]

56. My Dad died of small cell lung cancer caused by smoking.

It was painful and awful and went to his bones. He was a brave man who suffered multiple wounds in World War II , received a Bronze Star with Valor, and never complained, but the agony almost kept him from moving in bed. He had trouble breathing and eating. It broke my heart. And it only took seven months from the time he was diagnosed, from laughing and dancing at my brother's wedding, to death.

For God's sake people, wake up! Stop smoking and vapimg! He tried so hard to quit and could not do it. Stop arguing to defend stuff that's stupid on its face and use common sense. You can save your own life.

[paleotn]

70. I'm so sorry.

Dad was a WW2 vet as well. He died from a series of strokes brought on by peripheral artery disease. That coupled with COPD and heart disease destroyed him. Those were tough years for my family.

[colorado_ufo]

82. Thanks so much for writing.

[JonLP24]

94. I think flavored e cigarette bans impact those adults trying to quit

I went from tobacco cigarettes, to e-cigarettes, and now down to lozenges. Kids will still smoke tobacco cigarettes like they did when I was a kid without a-cigarettes.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

16. We don't know what is in the liquids

It’s unregulated right now.

It’s better to stop smoking completely.

[jayfish]

19. It's Not Unregulated And...

WE know exactly what's in the liquids.

[BootinUp]

23. Lol, this thread is killin me. +1

[proud patriot]

47. ++2

[FunkyLeprechaun]

97. Sure

Keep thinking that.

[maxsolomon]

24. We don't know what's in black market liquids.

Vapor isn't smoke, but if you want, switch to edibles.

[SoCalNative]

33. Once again, yes we do

for the pods manufactured by Juul, Blu and other e-cigarette companies.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

20. It still gets me,...

We've had 7-8 death attributed to vaping and everyone is on the bandwagon to get rid of them.

But when it's Mass Shootings, we have people wanting to do something but gets blocked by people that say "it's too soon to do anything. Let's calm down first".

[maxsolomon]

25. there's no constitutional amendment spelling out a right to vape

"some say" there should be!

[Callmecrazy]

57. You ever read the Constitution?

The Ninth Amendment states:
"The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people."

[Catamount]

26. Thank you from a long time vaper!

Still enjoy an occasional cigarette too, but after 6 years of tobacco flavored vaping, my lungs are so far in better condition than ever before, as a long term smoker!
Also enjoy vaping thc!
Once gave a dire prediction in the 70s, that smoking cigs might one day be banned, not quite there, of course, never thought I would be able to appreciate legal marijuana!
For what it's worth!

[coti]

29. The demonization of a brilliant invention that is going to save MILLIONS of lives into the future

is just another SMFH moment of the fact-free, fascist Trump era.

[unblock]

87. i might agree with you if vaping were solely by prescription

and then only after more effective smoking cessation methods had been tried and failed.

but if anyone vapes who wouldn't have ever started on the path to nicotine addition, that's a tragedy and a failure of public policy.
any smoker who opts for vaping instead of a more effective cessation method, that's a tragedy and a failure of public policy, again, unless the other methods have been tried and failed.


the free marketing of vaping to a whole new generation of kids is horrendous public policy. people have been appropriately bombarded with messages that smoking is deadly and no one thinks it's cool. then suddenly this new unhealthy thing comes along and it's being marketed with many of the same lies our parents and grandparents grew up hearing about cigarettes.

is it safer than cigarettes? that may be true.
can it ween you off of cigarettes? that may be true (though some studies suggest it's actually pretty useless in that regard).
but in any event, this is only relevant *if* you're already addicted to cigarettes.

for everyone else who hears about vaping, the message should be don't try it, don't start, it's seriously addictive and seriously unhealthy *and could lead to smoking cigarettes*.

[unblock]

31. what pisses me off is seeing the exact same bullcrap we saw a half century ago with tobacco denial

big tobacco insisting it was safe.
big tobacco insisting we could never prove that any particular person ever died from cigarettes because lung cancer sometimes happens to non-smokers.
big tobacco fighting regulation every step of the way.
big tobacco trying to get kids hooked before they have a sense of their own mortality or appreciate how powerful addiction can be.
big tobacco encouraging the notion that smoking equates to freedom and anyone asking you to smoke elsewhere is infringing on your freedom.


and now it's the same crap all over again.

and they insist that it's all so completely different because hey, it's not "smoking". so they insist we have to start over from scratch and spend the next half century studying a "completely different" mechanism for heating up a somewhat different mix of carcinogens and toxins and sending them directly into your lungs, as if we'll then find a completely different result.

and in the meanwhile, vapers feel empowered to completely ignore no smoking signs because hey, it's not "smoking".


is it "safer" than smoking cigarettes? maybe, maybe not, but it is in no way "safe", so i don't really care if it's less lethal.

my 13-year old son is getting inundated with messages about how "cool" vaping is and how "safe" it is and it's beyond ridiculous. inhaling hot carcinogens and toxins is just plain f*cking stupid.

lungs are delicate and sensitive and evolved to be suitable to a careful mix of primarily nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide. vaping is on its face a very bad idea.


to the extent that someone uses vaping as a *temporary* step to go from cigarettes to nothing, it may have a certain limited utility. but that is not at all the messages my son is getting about what vaping is all about.

it's *not* primarily marketed as a temporary part of a smoking cessation program.

[coti]

34. No, it is most definitely way, way safer than smoking.

Ask anyone who has made the switch, and they will tell you how much better they feel. You see post after post after post of that here on DU. We may not have the specifics, but it's well-proven just by common sense and usage reports that it is way safer (just like it was common sense that inhaling SMOKE that left you coughing constantly and congested and smelling bad and nauseous wasn't going to be good for you).

Given that, what you should care about is getting people off of TOBACCO, which, for SURE, KILLS A HALF MILLION PEOPLE EVERY YEAR in the US. And vaping does just that- it keeps people from smoking tobacco.

Now, teenagers need to be educated about nicotine's addictiveness and the fact that inhaling anything into your lungs isn't going to be harmless. If you can avoid getting addicted to it in the first place, that's most definitely the way to go. But, it's not nicotine that kills people. It's tobacco. If you don't like the idea of your child vaping, imagine if he was smoking cigarettes (which, of course, historically teenagers have certainly done at times).

[unblock]

66. Much as jumping off a 3-story building is safer than jumping off a 30-story building

The message people should be getting is don't do either.

I very limited cases, some doctors may suggest vaping as a temporary pathway to cessation *after* healthier cessation programs have failed.

[coti]

74. Yes, abstinence-only, understood nt

[LanternWaste]

108. Also, much as jumping off a three inch curb is safer than jumping off a 30-story building

We can all craft analogies to assist our narrative in looking valid... regardless of whether that validity is in fact, warranted or not.

[unblock]

110. pushing the notion that vaping is as safe as jumping off a 3-inch curb is wrong and dangerous

some have suggested that vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes.

which might imply that "only" 24,000 people will die per year vs. 480,000 from cigarettes.

of course, we won't see the full figures until people have been vaping for long enough for people to die from cancers that take years to develop, etc., and the addicts and pushers won't accept the numbers until well after there have been extremely time-consuming studies to prove it....


your ability to turn a useful analogy into a joke doesn't change the fact that vaping is dangerous.

[Mariana]

113. "Some have suggested that vaping is 95% safer than cigarettes."

That would be the Royal College of Physicians in the UK.

However, the hazard to health arising from long-term vapour inhalation from the e-cigarettes available today is unlikely to exceed 5% of the harm from smoking tobacco.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects/outputs/nicotine-without-smoke-tobacco-harm-reduction-0

Why do you think they're wrong?

[coti]

114. So is the analogy that it's like jumping off a three-story building. You're stoking

unreasonable fear and doing damage to public health.

[bucolic_frolic]

35. 7 people have died, 560 something are ill

Something's up with this

[colorado_ufo]

46. Consider that it usually takes years for cigarettes

to become deadly. These lung problems and deaths caused by vaping are coming very rapidly. Also, the flavorings are really attracting younger and younger people.

Lungs are delicate and they are precious. We need to learn to respect them or die. They are as critical to life as your heart, and I don't see anyone deliberately trying to do things to their heart in the name of recreation.

[Callmecrazy]

59. This story reminds me of hearing about a nationwide recall on beef or chicken...

It's an isolated incident. We've been vaping safely for over a decade and now some asshole put an additive in it to stretch out his supply. He put a dirty cut in the juice.

And that's all this is.

[Mariana]

48. Of course something's up.

People are buying THC vapes illegally, and using them. That liquid could contain literally anything.

[paleotn]

36. Your lungs need only one thing

Clean air. They did not evolve to be drug absorption organs.

[OilemFirchen]

42. Really?

Bronchodilators (Rescue Inhalers): Short-Acting and Long-Acting Types

[paleotn]

45. And how many inhalers do you use daily?

I've cut back to only 2 packs a day myself.

And interesting that you bring up inhalers....air pollutants and smoke being some of the leading causes of asthma. Next?

[OilemFirchen]

50. I don't have a respiratory ailment.

Perhaps you should ask someone who does. Did their lungs "evolve to be drug absorption organs"?

[paleotn]

76. Lungs evolved to uptake O2 from air.....

Everything else is happenstance. Now, need I explain the difference between chronic exposure verses occasional therapeutic exposure? Irritants and carcinogens verses therapeutic drugs used as directed, but still with potential side effects?

[coti]

49. Sounds like the beginning of a great abstinence-only program to market to teenagers nt

[obamanut2012]

71. If they weren't, I would be dead

Unless you don't consider my asthma inhalers drugs.

[jayfish]

89. Uh Ohh...

The Air Is So Bad in These Cities, You May as Well Be Smoking

Air pollution was responsible for as many as 6.5 million deaths worldwide in 2015—as a result of diseases such as heart disease, stroke, lung cancer, and COPD—according to a study by The Lancet Commission on Public Health. The same study found that even in the U.S., more than 150,000 deaths that year could be attributed to pollutants in the air.

But despite this reality, it’s hard to really grasp how the air we breathe is personally impacting our personal health. That fact inspired researchers at Berkeley Earth, a non-profit group of scientists that use big data analysis to better understand climate change, to come up with a better way to compare the dangers in our air with health hazards we can understand. So they produced a paper that found that air pollution has a total impact as harmful to human health as cigarettes.

We should start an evac. ...immediately.

[mudstump]

39. If you ban vaping nicotine...then ban cigarettes and booze.

Way more deaths attributed to cigarettes and alcohol. Banning vape juice doesn't make sense.

[mudstump]

40. The tobacco and alcohol industry wants vaping gone.

[OilemFirchen]

41. As a heavy smoker, I support a ban on vaping and tobacco.

Along with, simultaneously, a ban on alcohol and all guns, which kill far more children than either of the substances in my thread title.

First they came for my Jarts...

[Sedona]

53. I've been vaping for almost ten years

No ill effects except for losing the cigarette smell in my hair and clothes and house and car.

No more morning cough and I can exercise without running out of breath

[LuckyCharms]

90. Same. 7 years for me.

[Skittles]

69. it IS possible to neither smoke nor vape

just saying

[obamanut2012]

72. Big Tobacco is so all over this

And, Big Pharma and Big Tobacco will get the Feds after our legal THC carts, too.

[liberal N proud]

77. The vaping industry doesn't have the deep pockets of tobacco

They don't stand a chance

[sheshe2]

78. The tobacco companies are behind this panic.

They want people to smoke.

[ecstatic]

83. A lot of dump's supporters are PISSED about this.

Many say they won't vote for him again... because of this ban.

[Liberal Veteran]

84. So wait, does it make logical sense that "tabacco" and "menthol" flavored ecigs are good?

The liquid that ecigs use doesn't come in those two flavors naturally. E liquid doesn't taste naturally like either of those things.

Is there some law of the universe that says "tobacco" and "menthol" are ok, but "vanilla" or "strawberry" are evil?

So logically, if you are ok with allowing "tobacco" and "menthol" liquid, you are ok with flavored eliquids.

[gulliver]

85. Yep, it's crazy.

It's a huge, dumb overreaction that, like you say, is going to push people onto real cigarettes.

[bluecollar2]

88. No we don't...

As a former smoker, and having endured a triple bypass including several days on a ventilator following that surgery I'm going to stand up and say that the deliberate introduction of foreign substances into your lungs is dangerous and to advocate otherwise is irresponsible.

[jayfish]

92. No One Is Advocating For Either Vaping Or Smoking.

I advocate vaping as harm reduction and a path to total abstinence from cigarettes and, if so desired, nicotine.

[LuckyCharms]

91. Take away my vape? Then I'll go back to cigarettes, simple.

Why, because I don't give a fuck anymore, that's why.

Every doctor I have spoken to on this issue has congratulated me for using a vaping device to quit smoking. You know, ACTUAL medical professionals who can both read AND understand studies.

Actual medical professionals that understand that the danger lies in the chemicals produced in the COMBUSTION of a cigarette, including the creation of sticky TAR. Such COMBUSTION creates thousands of other onerous chemicals that are harmful to living things. COMBUSTION does not happen in vaping, and is therefore, ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE SAFER THAN SMOKING CIGARETTES.

The goddamn base that is used in most vapes is sprayed into the air to SANITIZE HOSPITAL ROOMS FOR FUCKS SAKE.

I'm so goddamn sick of this bullshit hysteria because some kids bought some shit off the street cut with VITAMIN E OIL and got sick or died. I'll tell you what, if you want to vape any kind of OIL, you are going to have a bad time.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

You take away my vape, and I'll work for the rest of my life to take away your right to pick your fucking nose without washing your hands first. Go find something more worthwhile to tighten up your scrotum over. Previous comment not directed at anyone here in particular.

[NCLefty]

96. "compared with traditional cigarettes it's a refreshing kale and spinach smoothie"

Kale and spinach are healthy. Inhaling this stuff, flavored or not, almost assuredly isn't.

We'll know in a decade or so, after more studies come out. We really don't until then.

[Act_of_Reparation]

98. It's been a few weeks since we've had ourselves a good ol fashioned MORAL PANIC.

Comic Books, video games, heavy metal, hippidy hop, sexting, knockout, Dungeons and Dragons, krokodil, caffeinated drinks, SATANIC CULTS, pornography, planking, etc., ad nauseum.

It's amazing we have the time to try to regulate all of these, but for some reason can't get any traction on fucking assault rifles.

[AtheistCrusader]

100. SUMMER OF THE SHARK

[Act_of_Reparation]

102. AFRICANIZED BEES

[Cetacea]

117. I've seen two wonderful honey bee hives exterminated thanks to that eom

[Thomas Hurt]

101. Kill folks the old fashioned Murican way, none of this newfangled digital crap

LOL

[customerserviceguy]

103. How about

advocating that nobody needs an oral pacifier of any sort?

[jayfish]

105. How About Mind Your Own Business? -NT-

[customerserviceguy]

106. I'm not advocating a ban

we all know where prohibition goes. I'm just advocating making it socially unacceptable.

[LanternWaste]

109. No on is advocating it as a necessity.

Merely as a commodity, and we all are well aware that the majority of commodities are not things that anyone "needs..."

[Cetacea]

118. Like food?

Maybe we should ban all foods that have been cited as possible causes of many major diseases. Food addiction is a much, much larger problem than vaping.

[customerserviceguy]

119. Food has nutritive value

nicotine does not. But, justify your use of a pacifier any way you can with whataboutism.

[Cetacea]

120. Have people lost the ability to argue without being insulting?

Last edited Sat Sep 28, 2019, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Jeeze

There are benifits to nicotine, especially to people on psych meds. It is also showing promise as a preventive for dementia. Get educated a bit and we'll talk.

[DFW]

121. Well, I must admit...

I do find I can't go without food. People who do that tend to die of starvation.

On the other hand, I feel no need to inhale anything more that what I already do indoors and outdoors (glad I'm not a coal miner).

Abraham Lincoln once said. "What is a cigarette? A stinking weed with fire on one end and a fool on the other." I don't know what he might have said about vaping, but I doubt he would have been its most fervent advocate.

I don't care what others do as long as I don't have to breathe in their smoke, or suffer their stench. Europe has FINALLY banned smoking on trains and planes, but often I have to sit next to people who have been smoking for hours, and their hair and clothes have this awful stench that one can detect across the border in the next country over.

[Cetacea]

122. I find the smell of weed ofensive.

And nicotine has shown some promise as an anti-dementia drug. At any rate, vaping is not smoking and produces very little odor. I'm all for regulating it in a reasonable fashion.