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Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:24 PM

Just thinking! Is it possible that the RETHUGS are planning

For tRUMP to hand the election to Pence, at the last minute? ( with the guarantee of complete pardon for the asshole and family?) I wouldn't put ANYTHING pass these fuckers!!

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Reply Just thinking! Is it possible that the RETHUGS are planning (Original post)
bluestarone Aug 2019 OP
Siwsan Aug 2019 #1
Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #13
not_the_one Aug 2019 #31
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #39
lame54 Aug 2019 #2
bluestarone Aug 2019 #8
LonePirate Aug 2019 #3
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #26
hlthe2b Aug 2019 #4
pangaia Aug 2019 #21
NightWatcher Aug 2019 #5
Ilsa Aug 2019 #42
onetexan Aug 2019 #6
Me. Aug 2019 #7
bluestarone Aug 2019 #10
aeromanKC Aug 2019 #9
Me. Aug 2019 #24
aeromanKC Aug 2019 #25
LincolnRossiter Aug 2019 #11
Blue Owl Aug 2019 #12
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #14
Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2019 #18
yonder Aug 2019 #27
Newest Reality Aug 2019 #15
bluestarone Aug 2019 #17
Newest Reality Aug 2019 #19
LonePirate Aug 2019 #28
pangaia Aug 2019 #22
Newest Reality Aug 2019 #23
Blue_true Aug 2019 #16
elocs Aug 2019 #20
keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #29
bluestarone Aug 2019 #30
lastlib Aug 2019 #32
Celerity Aug 2019 #33
Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #35
Celerity Aug 2019 #36
Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #37
Celerity Aug 2019 #38
NCLefty Aug 2019 #34
malaise Aug 2019 #40
brooklynite Aug 2019 #41

Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:29 PM

1. Since he's a pathological opportunist, if he loses, I could see him resigning in time for a pardon

Shortly before the Inauguration.

But, since he's also a pathological narcissist, I can see him going full scorched earth, if he loses.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #1)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:36 PM

13. He'll go full scorched earth. We must all understand this is the only path for him.

His pathology demands that the false self fantasyland he's created in his own mind is preserved. He'll do anything to keep it from falling apart.

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 12:00 AM

31. Not really.

He had one job to do, and that was tear this country apart. That was what Putin wants/wanted, and that is what the turd signed on to do.

He was as surprised as everyone else when he won. He thought his candidacy would just be money in the bank for him, since he had no intention whatsoever of divesting of his businesses. It was all about building the brand.

But, thanks to Putin's vote switching (and yes, I typed vote SWITCHING), he DID win. He was so surprised it took several days for him to really accept what had happened.

So he has already done what he was supposed to do, destroy our political infrastructure. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

He won't run again, he will step down late enough for Pence to be president for a few days, and pardon him and his scum family, and think that he got away with it. He won't attend the inauguration.

But the new democratic president and congress BETTER go after him with both barrels, taking every penny he has through RICO (NY money laundering), freezing his assets, and jailing his ass, along with his family (Trump Organization). We WILL NOT go along, to get along (do absolutely nothing "for the good of the country" ). There MUST be accountability. There was none in 2000, which is why we are here, now.

If he sees that coming, he will hop into his private plane and take off secretly for Saudi Arabia. Putin will be done with him and would kill him.

We need to make sure the tires of his plane remain flat until he is carted off to jail.

If that doesn't happen, and he digs in, not leaving, he will have his minions surround the white house, with their guns, and they will start the inevitable war we have been fearing.

I hate to say it, but we better be armed enough to take them on. They will NOT be the ones to decide what we as a nation become. Sitting back and not getting involved will not be one of the available options.

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Response to not_the_one (Reply #31)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:49 AM

39. +1, "Are you going after Trump after you win?" should be asked of all democratic prez candidates

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:30 PM

2. And then NY state indicts him

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Response to lame54 (Reply #2)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:32 PM

8. I would DONATE to NY state

to get his ass!!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:30 PM

3. That would only happen if he loses the election unless he fears a blowout loss (Dem w/ 400+ EVs).

He would only resign before the election if it was undeniable a wipeout was coming for him so that he could officially avoid being a loser. However, if he loses a standard election (say 300 EV to 238 EV), he very well could resign so that Pence could pardon him.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:25 PM

26. +1,

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:30 PM

4. Well, his mental decompensation can not be less than obvious to aids and those in his own party...

So, I'd have to think they are talking behind closed doors about options.

When Niki Haley comes out to push back on a rumor virtually no one is talking about, that says one thing--she's been considering a run, been in communication with those who are making "what-if" plans, or she's seeing what many of us are seeing and making plans accordingly. She said she liked Pence--she never denied the basis of the rumor (that she's in Iowa ostensibly to campaign for Joni Ernst, but more likely for less benign and more personal reasons).

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:19 PM

21. Nikki Haley is just another insane collection of skin bone and muscle..


She is not a sentient human being...

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:31 PM

5. Maybe that's why he's lighting a fire under NASA's ass for extraplantary travel.

He's looking for a getaway.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #5)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:58 AM

42. I'm so fine with him riding

an experimental rocket to Mars. My guess is that he'll believe he doesn't need a spacesuit.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:31 PM

6. I wouldnt put it past him that he has an escape plan

Maybe asylum to russia?

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:32 PM

7. NY STate Will Get Him

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Response to Me. (Reply #7)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:34 PM

10. THAT

would make my day!!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:34 PM

9. Yes, BUT

the NY AG will still have her day with Trump, pardon or no pardon.

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Response to aeromanKC (Reply #9)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:06 PM

24. And She Is Fierce

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Response to Me. (Reply #24)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:23 PM

25. Gotta love it!!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:35 PM

11. I've often considered that he would step down and hand off to Pence in exchange for a pardon if he..

.lost.

But that won't save him in New York State, New Jersey, or Florida. Only protects him from Federal Prosecution.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:35 PM

12. That would be the mother of all coups

n/t

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:39 PM

14. I am of the opinion that he is such a narcissist and so delusional

that he cannot even begin to imagine not winning the 2020 election. Nor can he imagine being held accountable for any of the terrible things he has done over the years.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:52 PM

18. I agree.

He's in his own reality.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:43 PM

27. At this point, I would have to agree, but everything is so whacked out right now.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:45 PM

15. I don't know about everyone else...

But when you do more investigation into Pence, he is just as, (if not more) scary than Trump. No really.

They picked him for the Evangelical/Christian faction, and if he becomes President, well, then you have a bit of a Handmaiden's tale scenario to hack away at what we have left now. I have kept an eye on the snake pit of the theocratic Evangelical movement and they are poised like cobras to act it out. No matter how likely or unlikely that may turn out to be, the shambles that Trump might leave the country in makes it far more possible. To me, that is another reason why they would want a breakdown in the system to occur, it leaves things ripe for an enforced version of their America.

The Atlantic had a good article that covers some ground on that:

It’s almost as if, in that brief, barely perceptible moment, Pence is sending a message to those with ears to hear—that he recognizes the absurdity of his situation; that he knows just what sort of man he’s working for; that while things may look bad now, there is a grand purpose at work here, a plan that will manifest itself in due time. Let not your hearts be troubled, he seems to be saying. I’ve got this.


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/01/gods-plan-for-mike-pence/546569/

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:48 PM

17. Oh man i agree 1000% but

Pence would definitely be MORE ELECTABLE that tRUMP is my thinking! The religious rt would love it!

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:54 PM

19. Yes, he certainly would.

Trump uses double-binds as a tactic, as was evinced in debates.

So, this, when you know what Pence stands for, is a real double-bind for the American people until they are BOTH out of office.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #17)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 08:49 PM

28. Pence does not command the loyalty of the deplorables.

Sure, he may bring back some of the small group of former Republicans. However, the occasional voter who loves 45 but detests regular politicians will stay home, resulting in a net loss for Repubs.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #15)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:21 PM

22. Of course he is just as, (if not more) scary than Trump

We all know that.
he is true believer.. in what he is doing. And he has a braain...

trump is just insane with no brain

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Response to pangaia (Reply #22)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:41 PM

23. I might add that...

The Evangelical Theocrats are big on Mosaic Law, though they cherry pick with glee again and again.

The problem with that, though is that it seems that the Ten Commandments in the Pentateuch was not a necessarily Universal set of laws, but may have only applied to the chosen or the followers and that is evidenced by the command by God that they commit a genocide: he directed them to kill all the Canaanite clans who were living in the land (Deut. 7.1-2; 20.16-18). The destruction was to be complete: every man, woman, and child was to be killed. The book of Joshua tells the story of Israel’s carrying out God’s command in city after city throughout Canaan.

So, a bloody, brutal slaughter that even included innocent children and babies is deplorable, even if they were "sinners", in my book. Thou shalt not kill did not apply in this case.

Now, the New Covenant of New Testament, really does a service by allowing an out for Christians as far as that kind of genocide goes, as well as all of the more barbaric practices endorsed in the Torah, but we can see that the cherry picking and will to power, etc., obscures that and so, you can't count on them not being able to justify such acts. The words of Jesus seem to be optional and therefore these followers may be far more pseudo-Christian then they can even imagine. Convenience and lip-service, of course, is hypocrisy.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 06:46 PM

16. Ignore them. We need to focus on maximizing our vote.

If we maximize our vote, they lose and can't do shit about losing, other than get mad and make baseless charges about election cheating.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 07:03 PM

20. I could see Trump resigning after he loses & being pardoned by Pence

like Ford pardoned Nixon. It would save Trump from federal charges but it's likely preferable to the mischief and evil he would do on his own in his final months.

Or Trump could resign sometime before the election and claim there is a massive conspiracy by Democrats to defeat him along with millions of fraudulent votes. In this case, if Pence pardons Trump he seals his own political future but he might be financially well compensated for doing it.

But Trump is the candidate we should want to run against in the general election.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:53 PM

29. Makes their heads explode.

Makes their heads explode.


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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 21, 2019, 09:59 PM

30. These fkn people are batshit crazy!!

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Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #29)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 12:01 AM

32. Shows how little they understand....

Once impeached, AnusMouth is disqualified from holding Federal office (Art. I, Sec. 3)

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Response to lastlib (Reply #32)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 01:39 AM

33. 2 things. 1 that meme is wrong because impeachment without conviction doesnt remove him

2.

Once impeached, AnusMouth is disqualified from holding Federal office (Art. I, Sec. 3)


How is Alcee Hastings a House member? He was impeached AND convicted and removed by the US Senate as a Judge before.

From what I have found, the future barring of federal office holding needs a further vote, even though the Constitutional wording sure doesn't look like it does.




https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44260.pdf






https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec3.html

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 02:40 AM

35. 2 points ...

1. The Senate sets its own rules.

2. [S]hall not extend further than ...
This is an upper limit, not a mandatory consequence.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #35)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 04:02 AM

36. So the Senate could convict but not even remove from office? It sure doesn't' look like that to me.

Or is removal mandated if convicted, and the barring from future holding federal office the only optional part?

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Response to Celerity (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 04:23 AM

37. the plain language says they could

Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States: but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law.


It doesn't say "shall be removed from office", nor "shall be disqualified", just "shall not extend further than".

IMO, this further strengthens the argument that the House should ignore any predictions of actions in the Senate when they consider impeachment.

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #37)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 05:11 AM

38. but that Congressional Research Service Report contradicts that, it says removal is mandatory

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44260.pdf

Should a conviction occur, the Senate retains limited authority to determine the appropriate
punishment. Under the Constitution, the penalty for conviction on an impeachable offense is
limited to either removal from office, or removal and prohibition against holding any future
offices of “honor, Trust or Profit under the United States.” Although removal from office would
appear to flow automatically from conviction on an article of impeachment, a separate vote is
necessary should the Senate deem it appropriate to disqualify the individual convicted from
holding future federal offices of public trust. Approval of such a measure requires only the
support of a simple majority.


Key Takeaways of This Report

The Constitution gives Congress the authority to impeach and remove the
President, Vice President, and other federal “civil officers” upon a determination
that such officers have engaged in treason, bribery, or other high crimes and
misdemeanors.

A simple majority of the House is necessary to approve articles of impeachment.

If the Senate, by vote of a two-thirds majority, convicts the official on any article
of impeachment, the result is removal from office and, at the Senate’s discretion,
disqualification from holding future office.




THAT

seems at loggerheads with the Constitution itself:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States:


in 2 ways

1

I see NOTHING that separates removal and then barring as requiring two separate votes (and certainly nothing saying only a simple majority is needed for barring)

and

2

I totally see your point about the exact Constitutional language not MANDATING even removal

That report seems to really play fast and loose with the entire thing

you now have me very worried that even a conviction might not remove the fucker

our founding fathers REALLY fucked us in so many ways IMHO

the Senate itself, with its mandate 2 seats per state, regardless of size, was/is a long-wave timebomb for instance (as population drift can render a small percentage of the population holding the whip hand over the vast majority, which IS happening right before our eyes)

and the shitty fucking vague language in the 2nd Amendment is another

I am so glad I hold multiple citizenships and the means to live where I choose to

I do not like this overall direction we are headed toward AT ALL

A Rump re-election has the distinct possibility of leading to the breakup of the union within the next two decades IF he then stacks the SCOTUS to 7-2 or even 8-1 hardcore RW (8-1 if Sotomayor's chronic and worsening diabetes does her in). The Red States will push cases up to it that will roll back most all of post-Brown v Board hard won civil rights (and may take out Brown v Board itself.)

The most Blue of the Blue states will never submit to theocratical tyranny for a federal government. They will, by the 2030's be pushing to break away IF the feds try to enforce the crazy new anti-human laws and rulings that would flow out.

There is no way the RW will settle for a states rights-only devolution for issues like abortion and LGBTQ rights. They will try and outlaw thsoe things nationally.

The Senate, by 2030 to 2035 will have 70% of the seats controlled by only 30% of the population, and that 30% is far whiter, older, more fundie, poorer, more racist, less educated, and more reactionary RW than the 70%.

The only way to temporary stave that off is to add PR and DC as states and perhaps split California into 2 states, thus giving us 6 new Democratic Senators. GOOD LUCK getting that to happen.

The same dynamics are fucking us in the Electoral College (and also voting power in the House itself) when it comes to electing the POTUS and even passing legislation. Because the House number of Representatives has not been really changed since 1913, there are just not enough EV's to fairly distribute in today's vastly increased population, so a person in Wyoming's POTUS vote is soon going to be 4 times as powerful as a California voter's. The US Constitution gives the tiniest states far too much power overall. The best way to sort the EC and the House itself is to vastly increase the number of Reps, say to 1201 (has to be an odd number, so no tie votes) and then distribute the seats (and thus the EV's) far more equitably.

All that takes is an Act of Congress. We need to do that as SOON as we grab both chambers and the POTUS. We may not get another shot again for years, if ever.

Adding the new States will be much harder I fear.

Fuck Trump, fuck ALL Republicans

rant off



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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 02:37 AM

34. No. His hubris alone will not allow this.

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:51 AM

40. But but but

that will piss off the Con's goons. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Go Dems!

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Response to bluestarone (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2019, 06:51 AM

41. Absolutely not...

Trump's personality wouldn't allow him to "lose" that way.

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