Our current government is illegitimate, it is not an administration

[onecaliberal]

It is a regime, they are dismantling every institution and destroying everything that does not benefit trump and his cronies.

This IS 1930’s Germany. We are the people looking away.

[uponit7771]

1. K&R, Those who push back on your discription hasn't studied how the German gov fell apart in that

... one year.

Ours fell apart when Red Don said he's going to cheat to get elected.

[CrispyQ]

2. I'm sad to say I agree. We are the Good Germans.

Good Germans is a term referring to German citizens during and after World War II who claimed not to have supported the Nazi regime, but remained silent and did not resist in a meaningful way. The term further denotes those who claimed ignorance of the Holocaust and German war crimes. Wikipedia

Everyone of us sitting at a keyboard own part of this. But honestly, I don't have a clue what to do, other than to call Congress. And then what? Leave a message? The biggest protest in our history was the woman's march in 2017, right after the orange asshole was inaugurated. Marches since have not been nearly as large. And in the end, what good did it do? Six months after that march, my non-political friends were still NOT calling their members of Congress to complain about trying to ax the ACA.

on edit: The dems better have a Plan B cuz he'll either win by cheating or he'll question the results if he loses. He's not leaving office if he can be convicted. Yesterday I said that I give the country a 25% chance of surviving Trump/Barr/McConnell & someone responded that I was being too optimistic.

[pangaia]

3. I AGREE- and have since the election...

[Hermit-The-Prog]

25. you are engaging in global conversations

The billionaire-owned M$M is part of the problem. People sitting at keyboards are routing around that problem, fact-checking those who are failing to be journalists and pointing other people to the real journalists still risking their lives to report truth.

Marches alone will not reach enough people. Big marches get tv's attention, but that is fleeting. The online conversations extend, expand and correct tv's influence.

More people are awake because of multi-prong efforts to make them notice.

[dalton99a]

4. It is a criminal regime.

[triron]

5. It is a criminal enterprise.

[The Liberal Lion]

6. I agree and have thought the same since day one

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2019, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

We have decisions to make. And I don't think they are pleasant. We can either bend the knee and submit, or we can stand shoulder to shoulder and do what must be done.

[BigOleDummy]

7. THIS veteran

is ready to stand arm in arm on any barricades we can get up. Tired of this shit and its getting worse day by day.

[triron]

8. What exactly must be done?

[onecaliberal]

10. Mass resistance protest. General strike. Something: what we're doing now is standing y watching

Them destroy us.

[The Liberal Lion]

12. I've been a big advocate of crippling the economy

as the only peaceful and therefore true means of ending this nightmare. General strike is one part of the strategy, a complete stoppage of usage of consumer credit is another. I'm personally not one to shy away from violence, but I know for many this is a bridge too far and in fact I don't believe it would be effective for achieving the goal sought. It has it's place, but there are better methods available to us at this point that doesn't involve that. Disruption of the economy on our terms instead of theirs could be exactly the solution we need. True, that choice would bring hardship, but as it stands we are heading down a road whose terminus is intolerable.

[triron]

15. I'm all in if there is a concerted effort. A few here and there only will harm those participating.

[rwsanders]

32. My thought has always been focused boycotts.

Maybe we can't go without buying certain items, if you need a car you need it, if you need food, etc.
The idea is that we pick a corporation and relentlessly run them into the ground and then someone will take notice. If we organize we can pick them off one by one.

[The Liberal Lion]

33. I like your idea

[uponit7771]

55. THIS !!! I talked about a hyper focused boycott that would get Red Don supporting business's attenti

... attention.

I would have to be a specific product from a Trump supporting company and if everyone did it at the same time it would send a big message

[rwsanders]

61. Definitely, I think the ones that say "all these businesses support Trump"

are less effective because they are too dispersed.
Pick one, picket, promote, protest...

[uponit7771]

54. +1, I think this will have enough people on board if we're prepared

[HipChick]

41. Yup..

We should be in the streets..

[sharedvalues]

11. Join local Indivisible or Swing Left

Wear Dem t shirts in public.
Or Dem bumper stickers.
Public shows of your opinion matter.

Donate to a local Dem.
Go canvass.
Register voters.
Tell proprietors with Fox on to drop Fox immediately.

Join ACLU. Indivisible. Listen to Pod Save America.

Call your Senators and Rep each week.

Lots of stuff to do.

[The Liberal Lion]

13. What must be done is toppling this regime.

If that is for you voting, working on the campaign trail, and anything dealing with getting a Democrat into the White House AND clearing these Nazis out of our government then that is the how you shall help. I think when the time comes for you to act you will do so and you will do it for the greater good.

[triron]

16. Did that work in Nazi Germany?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

26. this is not pre-Nazi Germany

We still have journalists and we can still talk across this country. The oligarchs do not yet control all communications.

Break the bubble of disinformation -- enlighten somebody.

[Pepsidog]

9. It's a criminal enterprise, and a bad one at that.

[Dan]

14. Actually there is one major difference (that I suspect is true)

The military probably doesn’t support the POS POTUS, unlike Germany 1933-1945.

The Germany military was pretty white, unlike the US military that reflects America.

Dumb ass probably hasn’t considered that.

And if he thinks the White Nationalist will take arms to take over the country to keep his ass in power, then I suggest that those that want to make money, invest in body bags - because the White Nationalist will cease to exist as a quasi-stupid militant force.

[triron]

17. Hoeful thinking but too many 'loyalists'.

[Dan]

18. Nope, not so

Now the administrative branches might have a lot of Trumpies (but I doubt it because he has really shit on the military leadership), but the combat arms branches, a large percentage are POC.

And definitely lots of African Americans and Hispanic Americans - not even counting POC from the Islands, and I strongly and bigly suspect that there is no love loss for the POS in the White House.

[triron]

19. POC?

I fail to see how high ranking officers likely to entertain what you seem to suggest. A military coup?

[Dan]

20. No, not a coup

I just don’t think that the military would entertain a situation such as the German army did with Hitler via 1933 - 1945.

The German military was on board with Hitler due to the issues associated with WWI and the treaty post WWI.

Here in America today, I just don’t see the military establishment (the corporation) as committed to our current POS. My post was stating that even if some of the military establishment wanted to support some type of crazy issue that Trump might want (to maintain power etc.,), there are just too many soldiers that wouldn’t buy into that agenda.

I mean think about it, Trump’s hate against POC - etc., and then to suggest that he could turn that military into a weapon against the population of the U.S. to keep control, that day won’t happen.

When Gerald Ford was president back in 1975, (as an example) there was discussions about the U.S. military going into parts of Africa to fight. The reason was that Cuba had sent doctors and soldiers there to assist some of the countries (it was a long time ago). Anyway, the discussion was that the U.S. would send troops to fight the Cubans and the African nations that they were supporting. I remember that the African American soldiers (not all to be sure) said that if we were going to fight in Africa, then we might as well start fighting here on the U.S. bases, cause that shit wasn’t going to happen.

So, Gerald Ford hadn’t said such negative hateful things toward the minorities as Trump as done, so if we weren’t going to do stupid shit for Ford, why would young (minority) soldiers today direct actions against minorities here in the U.S.?

Having said that, to stay in power and avoid being held accountable for his actions, I wouldn’t put anything beyond Trump, to include trying to incite some type of civil war.

Now, a military coup - well, I think if it was proven that Trump is working with the Russian (Putin) to undermine the U.S., then the military by definition is required to defend the nation/Constitution not the president.

Does that sort of explain what I was trying to say?

[triron]

22. But what does acronym POC refer to?

[Dan]

23. People of color

[rwsanders]

34. Can't speak to the other branches, but after 20 in the USCG...

the prevailing attitude is to follow the prevailing winds. Like other discussions have said, not many of us can lose jobs or can afford (in the military) to combat a dishonorable discharge.
The flag officers are always on the look out for their retirement job in defense industries or high level appointments to other agencies. The ones that are staying are eying appropriations.
Heck the USCG is allowing cutters to be used as mini-Guantanamo's. There is no education that I am aware of for the rank and file that covers constitutional issues.
Bottom line, don't expect a spine from the military.

[OldBaldy1701E]

21. Yep, you nailed it...

However, to repair this debacle requires two things that I just feel the majority of Americans will not do in the way that will be required to fix things. One, sacrifice... real sacrifice. And two, effort. I mean real effort, not just sitting and complaining at a computer. (Irony and hypocisry accepted). To fix this is to ask the population to go without luxury items, to possibly start growing your own food in defiance of HOA and local ordinance bullshiat, etc. As long as the majority still buys extraneous crap and defiantly exclaims that they 'neeeeeed it', as long as the majority of people accept anything that the establishment or social media tells them without question, and as long as I keep hearing people say, "Well, that's just how it is these days.", I can tell you nothing is going to change. To change things is to cast aspersions on the very heart of US existence. Namely, capitalism. Good luck even addressing that. You will be branded a 'communist' and have to move to protect your family. Just for suggesting that capitalism is at the heart of the problem. But, it is THE problem as far as I am concerned, and it is the reason our government and our society are now in shambles and little more than a feudal empire...

[onecaliberal]

24. No question that dump and republicans are all about money.

America is of by and for the capitalist.

[BigDemVoter]

27. They took office by criminal measures.

They should ALL be put on trial for treason.

[onecaliberal]

28. SO MUCH THAT.

[triron]

37. The media is mass complicit in this treason. So is most of congress.

[Harker]

29. I use "regime" and

"maladministration", and "dysadministration" routinely.

When I'm being polite.

[Trueblue Texan]

30. I don't know what else to do, do you?

If you do, I wish you'd tell the rest of us because we'd be glad to do it. I get sick of being criticized because we're not doing enough. We will do what we can! Just a little leadership would help instead of criticism!

[onecaliberal]

31. A good demonstration of what we coukd be doing is Puerto Rico.

Children are dying in cages, black and brown bodies are being hunted on the streets of America. The government is owned by the capitalist. It’s getting more dire by the moment.

[Trueblue Texan]

35. Apart from writing, calling, protesting, sending money...

...what are you suggesting that "we", meaning people like you and me who go to work every day to take care of our families, WHAT SPECIFICALLY are the suggestions of what we should do. There are so many just like us waiting for an answer! Waiting for leadership on this very issue! It does little good to tell us we are like the Germans who allowed this to happen to their nation. We don't want this to happen, we don't want to lose Democracy, but apart from what we are doing, does anyone have a plan of specific action they would like to share instead of criticizing those of us who actually DO care?

[onecaliberal]

36. I'm not saying we're like the Germans, history is.

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2019, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

I’m sorry that you seem to have taken offense to my opinion. I stand by my words. I include myself.

[triron]

38. Me too.

Gives a little empathy for the Germans doesn't it?

[triron]

39. knr

[triron]

40. knr

[triron]

42. I still get very angry whenever the media pundits refer to Trump as "President". He is a fucking

POS traitor.

[hughee99]

43. Exactly! I felt the same way about the Bush regime,

And the Bush/Reagan regime, and the Nixon/Ford regime.

Governments that I don’t support are not legitimate.

[triron]

44. that's not the reason it's illegitimate for me. But anything works.

But I also don't support it.

[triron]

45. kick for visibility

[kentuck]

46. Donald Trump is not a legitimate President...

His friendship with Putin and his refusal to stop foreign interference in our elections, and the matter of several indictments for Russian operatives, only solidifies his Russian connections. I am convinced he did not win the last election legally or honorably.

[onecaliberal]

50. No question. He is not the duly elected president.

[elocs]

47. The sad thing is that Trump should never have become president.

We have been so desperate to blame anybody else other than ourselves--the Russians, the Republicans, Comey--but on election day too many of us on the Left either chose not to vote, voted for a 3rd party, or even voted for Trump here in Wisconsin, and in Michigan, and Pennsylvania that it allowed Trump to prevail.
Sure Clinton got more popular votes but we all know that's not how are presidents are elected.
And I'm sure that if Clinton had won an electoral victory but lost the popular vote we would have heard crickets from the Left.

But if we learn from our mistakes in 2016 and realize that come election day no matter what the Russians have done or the Republicans have done the only thing left within our power to do is to get out and vote for the candidate of the Democratic Party.
Trump will still do mischief between now and then, and in the months after he is defeated but before he leaves office, however that is accomplished, Trump will do even worse things so we need to be prepared.

[triron]

49. No. It was vote manipulation by Repukes and Russians, etc. Voter registrations and vote tabulations

fucked with. Hillary still even won the popular vote by a very large margin.

[elocs]

51. Hillary won a big popular vote margin in one state--California.

Besides, you know as well as I do that our presidents are not elected by popular vote.
It's silly to claim that voters on the Left who did not vote or voted 3rd party had no impact on the election because they certainly did in Wisconsin.
But blaming the Clinton loss all on outside forces just makes us victims and not responsible for choices we made. But if playing the helpless victim makes you feel better, then go for it.

[triron]

59. This is a total mischaracterization of what I said. Blame is totally different than cause.

[elocs]

60. Voters from the Left who chose not to vote or voted 3rd party share the blame for Clinton's loss.

That's a real simple concept that many want to deny.

[Baltimike]

48. krb

[lpbk2713]

52. So true.

They would be funny like the Keystone Kops if not for all the harm they are doing.

[Life_Long_Democrat]

53. Watching a documentary on Hitler and Germany in the 30s

Within 2 years of becoming Chancellor of Germany he outlawed all other political parties and all labor unions. He took over the media, eliminating the free press, imprisoned or executed political rivals and forced the military to take a personal loyalty oath to him. Has any of that happened here?

[onecaliberal]

56. i wish people knew how hitler came to power.

Everyone thought he was a clown and could never be elected, just like dump. It’s truly horrifying. I understand how it could happen anywhere.

[Life_Long_Democrat]

57. The real problem was that the left wouldn't unite

against him.

[onecaliberal]

58. Yes definitely a big part of the problem.

I hope it’s not one we repeat.

[0rganism]

62. remember the first episode of "The Holocaust" series? (1978)

there's a scene pretty early on juxtaposing footage of Hitler's rise to power with a Jewish mother and her child practicing duets on the piano. things go downhill for them pretty fast from there. later in the series, the daughter is raped by Nazis, and they die together in a gas chamber. but, for a time, possibly the only time when the process could have been stopped, they played music together.

the entire series is available for free on youtube. if you haven't seen it already, i strongly recommend giving it a look.