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Martin Eden

(12,838 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 08:43 PM Jun 2019

If we don't fight, we lose

The rightwing authoritarians want us to despair, give up hope, and disengage.

That is the surest way to make our worst fears a reality.

In my 62nd year on this planet, I am far from throwing in the towel.

We have to keep fighting, and we have to remember the promise of youth -- not just our own from years past, but young people today who will pick up the banner of progress and make it their own.

Young people have often had have a poor track record of coming to the polls to vote. They -- and other demographics which will NOT vote for Trump but might not vote at all -- are the key to electoral victory. We have to inspire and motivate them.

The Democratic Party leadership and candidates have to show spirit and spine and energy in leading the charge against the fascist pig in the White House and the creeping authoritarianism which threatens our republic.

Timidity will not inspire and motivate souls to the polls. Taking counsel of our fears, whether it be Pelosi or the community here at DU, can easily translate into submission.

We have to fight.

Not out of blind rage but with intelligence and courage, with the confidence of knowing that facts and truth and justice and the imperative to save the future are all on our side.

Political calculation only goes so far, forgetting how the spirit of The People can be roused beyond the indicators of conventional polling.

Our fears are legitimate, given where we find ourselves now. The political calculation is uncertain; the outcome is fraught with dread. We understand that something above and beyond is needed to save America from its own shortcomings and worst impulses.

We have to fight, and by fighting the good fight convince all those non-voters that this is very much their fight as well.

Donald Trump is a criminal who richly deserves to be impeached. If the people we need to energize see the Democratic Party exonerate him by default, taking counsel of fear through cynical political calculation, they will not see us as the answer.

By all means we also have to articulate the critically important issues with practical policy solutions which will improve the lives of real people, and our candidates will continue to do that as our elected representatives in the House build the case against the POtuS who must be deposed.

Democrats can walk and chew gum at the same time, and by going on the offensive on both fronts we will claim more of the air time that has been dominated by the orange abomination.

We have to go on the offensive. If we don't fight, we lose.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If we don't fight, we lose (Original Post) Martin Eden Jun 2019 OP
Damn right! lunatica Jun 2019 #1
historically, young people have not had a great voting record Skittles Jun 2019 #2
Does that mean Martin Eden Jun 2019 #4
mmmm......I don't know Skittles Jun 2019 #5
I believe they came out in greater numbers than usual in 2018. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #25
I really hope they do Skittles Jun 2019 #31
If we don't turn out the vote, we lose... SKKY Jun 2019 #3
We need to completely shock and awe the repugs... JoeOtterbein Jun 2019 #6
Agree, and very inspirational. Made me think.... KY_EnviroGuy Jun 2019 #7
Good point...nt 2naSalit Jun 2019 #8
The fear of failure Anybody Jun 2019 #9
+1 Martin Eden Jun 2019 #14
You think Pelosi lacks guts? ehrnst Jun 2019 #18
what you said oldlibdem Jun 2019 #37
shoulder to shoulder proud patriot Jun 2019 #10
We must fight. There is zero legitimate reason Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #11
Simply repeating that there is "zero legitimate reason" won't cut it either. ehrnst Jun 2019 #19
How about approx 741.4 years of experience!! Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #23
No. You don't get to combine "experience" with others when it comes to expertise. ehrnst Jun 2019 #33
Fresh eyes always see what people who have been there forever don't see. Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #34
So now it's about 'fresh eyes' and not 'experience' ehrnst Jun 2019 #43
Hear! Hear! Kind of Blue Jun 2019 #12
In My Opinion... WiffenPoof Jun 2019 #13
The Right (and Trump) will spout their lies no matter what Martin Eden Jun 2019 #15
How does waiting until all the information/evidence is in "bog down the eventual effort" ehrnst Jun 2019 #20
I tend to agree. The constant roadblocking at every Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #27
whenever a politician shows a pulse, they get immediate support from the base ProfessorPlum Jun 2019 #16
Hear! Hear! k&r n/t Laelth Jun 2019 #17
And if we jump the gun? (nt) ehrnst Jun 2019 #21
Building a strong case for impeachment is essential Martin Eden Jun 2019 #24
To not fight is to appease. And appeasement does not work, it never has. Autumn Jun 2019 #22
No, it doesn't. Everyone who is for waiting and Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2019 #28
Even with wtf fatigue, we must pick ourselves up and keep fighting.... FM123 Jun 2019 #26
nitpicking words, saidsimplesimon Jun 2019 #29
May I say something really bad? True Blue American Jun 2019 #32
K & R Nevermypresident Jun 2019 #30
Yes but Gringoguapisimo Jun 2019 #35
You missed the point Martin Eden Jun 2019 #36
You're going to love this story then. Efilroft Sul Jun 2019 #39
Yes, I do love it! Martin Eden Jun 2019 #40
You bet! Efilroft Sul Jun 2019 #42
Not fighting hard enough is what got us where we are. JudyM Jun 2019 #38
Rules for resistance (stolen from DailyKos) DinahMoeHum Jun 2019 #41

Skittles

(153,103 posts)
2. historically, young people have not had a great voting record
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:11 PM
Jun 2019

I just don't think today's youth can afford to follow suit

Skittles

(153,103 posts)
5. mmmm......I don't know
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:24 PM
Jun 2019

I do think our young folk are much smarter and savvier than they've been given credit for.....but alas, I don't know many. The ones I work with seem very MEH about politics.

Turin_C3PO

(13,881 posts)
25. I believe they came out in greater numbers than usual in 2018.
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:26 PM
Jun 2019

Hopefully Democrats can motivate them to come out in 2020. This isn’t the primaries forum but it’s my number one worry about Biden, that he may not motivate youth. O’Rourke, Buttigieg, or Warren might do better on that front.

SKKY

(11,790 posts)
3. If we don't turn out the vote, we lose...
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 09:16 PM
Jun 2019

...77,740. That’s the number of votes that separated a Clinton Administration from the dumpster fire we have now.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,488 posts)
7. Agree, and very inspirational. Made me think....
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:09 PM
Jun 2019

perhaps throwing some support to our state and local Young Democrats organizations would be a very productive investment. We need lots of fireball young people with AOC-type enthusiasm and presentation to inspire our youth in every state.

KY......

Anybody

(2 posts)
9. The fear of failure
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:40 PM
Jun 2019

The patriots at Bunker Hill stood against the Redcoats with no guarantee of success,
The torpedo plane crews at Midway did not know how the war would end.
Martin Luther King stood and spoke, knowing that he might not live to see The Dream fulfilled.
The guys in the Alamo knew they had no chance at all.

If we impeach, we might lose a vote in the Senate.
If we don't impeach when the evidence is so strong and the need so great, we devalue the Constitution that many Americans gave their lives to protect.

The house can compel President to stand accountable to the Senate, and the Senate will be forced to choose between Trump and the Constitution they swore to protect. We have a very strong case. Let's have the guts to make it.

Martin Eden

(12,838 posts)
14. +1
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:02 AM
Jun 2019

We have to stand up for our Constitution and the principles which make America truly great.

If we fail to do that, history will judge us almost as harshly as Trump.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
18. You think Pelosi lacks guts?
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:17 PM
Jun 2019

And what if the "failure" that comes from impeachment at the wrong time is way worse than "one Senate seat?"

What is your source of information on this?

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
11. We must fight. There is zero legitimate reason
Sun Jun 23, 2019, 10:52 PM
Jun 2019

that isn't outweighed by SO many more not to start! And just saying we believe in Pelosi won't cut it. It's really so unbelievably the right thing to do.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
19. Simply repeating that there is "zero legitimate reason" won't cut it either.
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:23 PM
Jun 2019

And someone describing something as "unbelievably right" doesn't make it as or more credible than the judgement of someone who actually has decades experience and inside information.




 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
23. How about approx 741.4 years of experience!!
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:07 PM
Jun 2019

The average length of service for US Representatives at the beginning of the 115th Congress was 9.4 years (per Senate.gov)

So 76 US Representatives who say start Impeachment process x 9.4 = 741.4

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
33. No. You don't get to combine "experience" with others when it comes to expertise.
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 03:09 PM
Jun 2019

By your calculus, seven freshmen completing their first year of college would have the combined scholastic experience of someone with a graduate degree.

They could not, however, collectively accomplish a job that requires graduate degree expertise.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
43. So now it's about 'fresh eyes' and not 'experience'
Tue Jun 25, 2019, 07:56 AM
Jun 2019

When you need to keep moving the goalposts to defend your position, maybe it's time you re-examined your position. The defense of your position seems to change to fit whatever confirms your bias against new data, or any argument that logically refutes your previous statements.

By your "new" standards, the less experience, the better.... That's moving the goalpost to the opposite end of the field.


WiffenPoof

(2,404 posts)
13. In My Opinion...
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:22 AM
Jun 2019

... Too much time has already passed. Each day that goes by without any action further bogs down the eventual effort. The more time that passes the more the Right can say that we are on a witch hunt.

Martin Eden

(12,838 posts)
15. The Right (and Trump) will spout their lies no matter what
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 07:05 AM
Jun 2019

If we don't even try to hold Trump accountable, they will say the Mueller report had nothing and Trump has been exonerated.

If we let their lies dictate our actions, we lose.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
20. How does waiting until all the information/evidence is in "bog down the eventual effort"
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 12:24 PM
Jun 2019

rather than make it stronger?

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
27. I tend to agree. The constant roadblocking at every
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:35 PM
Jun 2019

turn works to diminish our look of authority. (As opposed to acting with total conviction at the outset). In addition, the farther from the main source of information we received, Mueller, the farther we are from a non-partisan action. Add to that the ever closer election and each day that passes, you appear to be acting more and more partisan.

I am still hoping against hope that something happens but more and more pessimistic it will. It may be exactly what they wanted..for us to forget about it. And we will...but at what price?

ProfessorPlum

(11,253 posts)
16. whenever a politician shows a pulse, they get immediate support from the base
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 09:28 AM
Jun 2019

Bernie Sanders, Allen Greyson, AOC, Al Franken, Paul Wellstone, Elizabeth Warren

any sign of fight and people get behind leaders.

FDR actually fought and was elected four times.

I just wish we had as much fight in our leadership as you have.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
28. No, it doesn't. Everyone who is for waiting and
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:41 PM
Jun 2019

hoping should read this. Amazing compilation catalog of trump offenses.

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/atrocities-1-to-112

Just one of HUNDREDS of examples:
97. – February 16, 2017 – Using the Congressional Review Act, Donald Trump repealed the so-called “stream protection rule,” which kept coal companies from dumping mining debris into rivers. Barack Obama first implemented the regulation after a growing body of evidence suggested the debris could contain toxic materials, such as selenium, mercury, and arsenic. Trump’s repeal has been on the wish list for the coal industry since the rule’s publication in December of 2016.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
29. nitpicking words,
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 01:53 PM
Jun 2019

"fatigue"? I can only speak for myself. Never surrender, resist, easy for me to say, I took a day off sun. and watched only cable nature shows or a new series. No brain power required

The repug goal is to throw crap to the wind and hope to tie up Democrats' time and election cash. I'm sure Democrats know how to cut to the quick without needing barrow loads of cash. Speaker Pelosi does and excellent job of jabbing at the monster with the fragile ego.

True Blue American

(17,981 posts)
32. May I say something really bad?
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 02:59 PM
Jun 2019

I despise that blanking MSNBC! They are still on Biden!

Just flipped it on, first thing I saw. My language is getting awful.

 

Gringoguapisimo

(13 posts)
35. Yes but
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:36 PM
Jun 2019

Isn’t it ageist to focus on youth as it’s own virtue? Experience counts at least as much as Pete or Yangs fresh face.

Martin Eden

(12,838 posts)
36. You missed the point
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 05:42 PM
Jun 2019

I cited young people because they often don't have a high turnout, which makes them a potential source of votes that can swing the election.

We have to take every opportunity we can get to turn non-political youth into Democrats.

Martin Eden

(12,838 posts)
40. Yes, I do love it!
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 08:17 PM
Jun 2019

2018 was a big development for the youth vote compared to earlier elections. Without them, the Blue Wave might have failed to retake the House.

All the more reason not to drop the ball by failing to carry on the fight. Now is the time to maintain and increase that momentum.

DinahMoeHum

(21,768 posts)
41. Rules for resistance (stolen from DailyKos)
Mon Jun 24, 2019, 08:35 PM
Jun 2019
The Five R’s of the Resistance

Resist: Protest on the streets, call senators and representatives, etc.

Rebel: Run for office, GOTV (Get Out The Vote), support a progressive.

Revolt: Change the laws, change the culture, build your communities.

Rely: Trust that millions of others are also fighting the good fight.

Rest: Take care of yourself, we are in this for the long term.





"If you're going through hell, keep going" - Winston Churchill
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