So let me get this straight

[berni_mccoy]

After Mueller’s and then Nadler’s statements today, the Democratic leadership is not going as far as impeachment, which means it will be up to the voters.

But the election was hacked by Russia to elect Trump. And Trump obstructed the investigation into this attack on our election and our nation.

Mueller says it’s up to Congress.

And the Democratic leadership in Congress is leaving it to the election ...

Which has been hacked.

[bdamomma]

1. makes no sense

do they realize how high the stakes are, and we will definitely be a different country by November 2020 unless the people rise up. Just saying. Cause we can see that this POS wants to be a dictator clearly.

[Hekate]

2. I don't believe the Dem leadership said any of that today

[berni_mccoy]

4. Is Nadler opening impeachment hearing?

His presser said nothing.

As far as he would go is to say all options are on the table when directly asked about Impeachment.

That is weak at best.

[Mr. Evil]

39. So everything's on the table.

Nice and hot, ready to eat. Except there are no utensils on the table. It's god damn time to finally put some knives, forks and spoons on the table so we can start carving up this corruption casserole forthwith!

It's almost as if they are terrified of being called names on Focksnooze if they choose to impeach President Moscownazi. Every time a republican traitor says some shit about impeachment the Democrats should call out Mitch McConnell's un-American policies and actions. Call him out for egregiously violating his oath of office. They should state over and over again that he is corrupt. Lindsey Graham is easily goaded into losing his shit so, keep hammering on him until he blurts out something he wouldn't normally blurt out.

It's so far beyond time to carve up the Republican Party for its litany of unethical corruption, crimes and conspiracies against America. But, Rush and Breitfart and Focksnooze will call them names and say Democrats are against freedom (remember, IOKIYAR to break the law) so they continue to be really tough and say "everything's on the table."

Playing it safe saying the next election will fix everything is dangerous and political suicide. Because the next election will be fixed even more so than the last. That's one thing everyone can bank on.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. No, none of that was said today, but what we DID learn today is Mueller is

more concerned about being asked politically enhanced questions than saving America.

wow

There is a latin phrase or question that is appropriate here

Et tu Robert Mueller?

[berni_mccoy]

7. Why would Mueller stick his neck out when the Democratic leadership

Will not impeach?

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. No sticking necks involved, he has to testify like ALL previous investigators

[berni_mccoy]

12. If there is no impeachment hearings he won't.

[Nuggets]

27. Impeachment hearings

won’t provide anything more than we can legally get right now. The GOP will block all efforts. They are stacking the courts.
This is a slow moving cancer and the entire GOP is involved in a global Oligarchy coup.

[berni_mccoy]

28. So just give up then.

[Nuggets]

49. No

Allow Pelosi the space to do her job. She’s far more informed than anyone here.


Impeachment at this point is not a good idea

Mueller is a worm
The The fact we have people here actually defending him as if he’s just a policeman is is just unbelievable.

He even put in his latest writings that he was not going to prosecute Trump because of the DOJ rule saying you can’t indict a sitting president and then he tried to claim that indicting him was unconstitutional.

That is a lie.


Now Im sure we’re going to get the “constitutional lawyers” here on DU to defend him and concoct a story for us likely in the line of authority. But it’s a lie.

AFAIC, anyone hanging onto this ‘ Mueller is a straight arrow” bit using the tired ol line “a path for Congress to impeach” is trying to divide Democrats as well as blame them for not stopping it.

Impeachment won’t remove Trump, it will set him up for exoneration.



I also love how Nixon is always the example used and bot Iran Contra-or Iraq War. Both times stonewalled etc. Republicans.

[berni_mccoy]

50. WRONG! Impeachment is morally required regardless of outcome

Not impeaching the President is passive acceptance that he will get away with it.

There should be no tolerance for Trump or anything he wants.

The election was stolen and he obstructed the investigation of how it was stolen.

We will be enabling this tactic again by not impeaching him.

[Nuggets]

63. Impeaching him now would allow him to get

away with it.
It’s been explained several times why.


Why are so many here so slow to understand?
Enquiring minds want to know.

[berni_mccoy]

64. Not impeaching him actually allows him to get away with it

If it’s a lose lose situation we must do what is morally right.

[Nuggets]

66. Baloney

Our ONLY chance is to wait until we have all the evidence (which Dems are working on now) and impeaching WHEN PELOSI SAYS ITS TIME! She’s far more informed.

It is immoral to abandon your leader when the going gets tough.

It’s morally right to wait instead of allowing the GOP to exonerate him and change the narrative.

It’s immoral to continue crapping on our leadership.

It’s been explained here over and over and over and over and over and over and over again .


I have to wonder about somebody who cannot grasp this concept at this time

The GOP wants us to impeach now. I guess you can sleep well at night supporting their wishes.

[Hekate]

8. Let me translate his statement: "I gave you everything in writing. Congress, do your job." ...

Translation: "I gave you everything in writing. Congress, do your job." Also...

"I am not running it through a baby-food mill for you. Learn to chew."

Finally: "Americans and American media, I am not your circus monkey. This is not a circus, this is Real Life. You have everything. Learn to read. Learn to think."

Works for me.

[Eliot Rosewater]

9. Hell no, we need to ask MANY questions, was he shut down prematurely, etc.

No, every person involved at every level of the Clinton investigation testified. But for some reason we dont need to hear from him on this, WAY WAY WAY NO NO NO

[Hekate]

14. Ken Starr, iirc, did not testify. Did he? You're not listening to Mueller or reading what he wrote.

I recommend contacting your congresscritter and senators. Baton has now been passed to them.

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. yes

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2018654358/

[fleabiscuit]

67. You just made Hekate's point. nt

[Eliot Rosewater]

68. No, he said Starr did not testify, I linked to prove the opposite.

[EffieBlack]

17. Pretty much

[lunatica]

25. I admire your stamina!

Sometimes it seems like it’s a steep climb uphill doesn’t it?

If we had the internet and social media back during the Nixon administration would it be like this? Yes.

Instant gratification, albeit groundless, seems to be the driving force now.

Thanks Hekate!

[Autumn]

43. The poster is wrong . Ken Starr did testify. He was also always on the news. nt

[lunatica]

46. Well unless you have the miraculous ability to see the future

You can only speculate about how this ends just like the rest of us. The House is investigating on many fronts, some of them just getting started. How you or anyone can say it’s all over is pure speculation. You don’t even take facts into consideration. It’s all hair on fire!

This is not over. It’s barely gotten started, but you and others want to trash facts just to throw your fits! It’s unbelievable!

[Autumn]

48. i speculated on nothing. A poster claimed Ken Starr didn't testify. I point out that they were wrong

Please tell me where I have trashed any facts in my response to your thanks to the poster for their post.

43. The poster is wrong . Ken Starr did testify. He was also always on the news. nt

The poster was wrong when they claimed he never testified.

Talk about throwing a fit, this from your response to my post is priceless.

46. Well unless you have the miraculous ability to see the future
View profile
You can only speculate about how this ends just like the rest of us. The House is investigating on many fronts, some of them just getting started. How you or anyone can say it’s all over is pure speculation. You don’t even take facts into consideration. It’s all hair on fire!

This is not over. It’s barely gotten started, but you and others want to trash facts just to throw your fits! It’s unbelievable!

[lunatica]

56. There's still hope for you

if you can laugh. Good for you!

[Autumn]

57. I don't need hope, my hair isn't on fire, not throwing a fit. Just posting the facts. Unlike some.

[lunatica]

60. No, you're posting your favorite facts

the ones that back up your opinion.

Here’s a fact. This is not over.

[Autumn]

61. My favorite facts? Ken Starr did testify ,he was also always on the news. Dispute those facts or

move on. That's fucking history, not an opinion, Ken Starr testified to the House Judiciary Committee and gave interviews damn near every day on TV.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/ivideo.htm

Kenneth Starr Takes the Stand
Impeachment hearings of President Clinton began Thursday, Nov. 19, 1998 when independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr testified before the House Judiciary Committee.

[guillaumeb]

26. Well said.

Mueller was the policeman. Congress is the prosecutor.

[Mr.Bill]

29. Congress doesn't have everything Mueller reported.

They only have a redacted version of it.

[Hekate]

40. The relevant committees are entitled to all of it, & as it is their job to get it, they are working

...on getting it as we sit here opining on a message board. Would be nice if a new Daniel Ellsberg were willing and able to risk his life and freedom to send the whole thing to said committee heads and the WaPo. But risking one's life and freedom is a hard thing to ask of another. I'm willing to let Congress work on it for awhile.

[Skittles]

3. oh, and we can't impeach because it might affect the 2020 election!

as if there's a horde of Trump supporters just waiting to come out of the shadows

[Baitball Blogger]

13. AND we need to win by large margins or Trump will contest the election.

This fucking bullshit.

[BeyondGeography]

53. But only with a center left mainstream candidate

[berni_mccoy]

58. IKR?! Waiting for that "Ironclad Case"... that's the story now.

[world wide wally]

6. so., since the party we all voted for has given up now that they have new ammo...

Can we all give up and save ourselves the frustration?

[Claritie Pixie]

19. Go ahead and give up. Go for it.

I will never give up, Dem leaders haven't either.

[world wide wally]

23. They lead by example... Personally I say impeach the asshole

[Claritie Pixie]

24. Then call and tell them that. You'll feel better.

And it's up to us to force them to do their jobs.

[Bettie]

34. You'd think with new ammo and

the driest powder in the history of ever, they'd be ready....but no.

[world wide wally]

44. They're getting ready any minute now

[mcar]

47. Nonsense

[elleng]

11. Not at all, they're INVESTIGATING,

accumulating EVIDENCE (which may/likely WILL) result in impeachment finding.

[berni_mccoy]

18. Can be done under the auspice of Impeachment HEARINGS

Which are also an investigative tool.

[elleng]

20. CAN be, but not necessary to FORMALLY head in that direction,

less inflammatory to proceed with fact-finding PRE-impeachment hearing.

Accumulate evidence that will persuade the voting public BEFORE 'impeachment' formally mentioned.

[berni_mccoy]

22. What is more inflammatory than what's already been done? For fuck's sakes.

Dems need to impeach now.

[wiggs]

32. the obstruction case is easy and clear, but won't rally gop senators to convict. Perhaps dems are

collecting evidence on Volume 1...collusion and collusive crimes. That's where the most damaging findings will be. A ton of publicly available evidence of collusion is already known...but findings of the referrals and counterintelligence investigations have to be funneled to congress and the public.

Dems shouldn't proceed with just obstruction as the case for impeachment. There's a lot worse that shouldn't be left behind.

If we had both House and Senate in serious numbers I'd say proceed with any of the dozens of valid pathways to impeachment ASAP. But as it stands we need to make a super strong case that potus is corrupt, compromised, and dangerous so that as much of the public and congressional gop see the truth as is possible. After that, we've done all we can and the congressional vote and the 2020 vote will be what it is. But we shouldn't go forward with just a fraction of what the overall case could be.

Just hurry up and finish the counterintelligence and collusive crimes parts and then move forward as indicated.

[ancianita]

37. Works for me.Respect for Law, getting the UNredacted report requires adult delay of gratification.

[Kurt V.]

16. i would think the intelligence community, without formal help, is working

hard to protect the election.

[elleng]

21. We all would like to think that,

but not sure, 'these days.'

[progressoid]

30. "It's too soon to consider impeachment of course."

?1558707827

[Bettie]

35. That would be funny

if it weren't so freaking possible.

[live love laugh]

31. Where did you get the information? And what about Republicans?

Nothing was said by Democratic leadership about not impeaching. In fact I know for sure candidate Booker states today that impeachment should be pursued.

[Jvp]

33. What's the point in voting?

By election time the takeover will be complete!
There would be no reason for this seventy year old lifetime Democrat to vote! Vote for who and why, I would feel betrayed by the Democratic Party. It would be just a charade. Nancy just might outsmart herself.

[PatrickforO]

62. You know, often things aren't as dark as they seem at any given moment.

There are a lot of decent things happening. Every day people help one another, take care of one another. We have this horrible president, it is true, and McConnell leading the Senate.

But look what happened last November - whole states turned blue. Trump has really long negative coattails.

Consider Mueller's statement, and what Pelosi said in response. They are readying themselves to begin televised impeachment hearings - the writing really is on the wall for that.

More than that, think of these states passing draconian anti-abortion laws - most women I know are pretty amped up about that whole thing.

No, it's ugly, and it is dark, but the dawn is coming.

So cheer up! We're gonna be ok.

[samnsara]

65. im the same age and sometimes i want to give up as well but then i see..

..my grand daughters and know that I cant give up. I never thought muellers report would impeach trump but it gave us a gosh darn good start. I can see the cracks in trumps wall of supporters.

Hang in there. Take a break from the news.. find some old b/w tv shows ..Gunsmoke helped me!

[ancianita]

36. You didn't get it straight. The process of Law is going forward, and Congress is NOT leaving

impeachment proceedings alone.

They have to have financial records, AND the UNredacted parts of the report that cross all their t's and dot their i's, in order to get a clean, fact-based vote from both Houses.

Getting it right should never be conflated with leaving anything to anybody.

First, Pelosi is not into high drama, but will let the committees' work speak for itself.
Second, when William Weld wins a few state primaries, and
third, when higher public polls that endorse impeachment,

Pelosi would give the official nod, just not publicly. She doesn't want to be a debate and social media target of Russian bots again.

Nadler and Pelosi are not at odds in pursuing the Judiciary, Intel, Ways and Means and Oversight Committees. House Democrats will proceed apace.

[CaptainTruth]

38. It's all about timing, including investigations in other committees...

& public opinion (support).

Patience, Grasshopper.

[Mr.Bill]

41. A saying from football coach John Madden comes to mind:

Don't worry about the mule being blind, just load the wagon.

[world wide wally]

45. If all they are going to do is lead by poll numbers, I need a new party to vote for.

[Chakaconcarne]

42. Maybe the plan is to kick this off a bit close to elections???

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Where did you get that? That isn't what they said.

[berni_mccoy]

52. Isn't what who said? Are we impeaching Trump?

No? Then what I said is accurate.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

54. Who's "we"?

Seems to me that the question isn’t if, just when.

[berni_mccoy]

55. I'll stand corrected when the impeachment hearings begin

Until then the leadership is wrong and weak on this.

[uponit7771]

59. ****************************************THIS !!!!*************************************