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manor321

(3,344 posts)
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 07:28 PM Apr 2019

Rep. Cicilline goes there! The House should imprison directly. (Added video clip)

Rep. David Ciciliine on Hardball goes there! Tonight he said the House can imprison people directly! And he said the House SHOULD do it if it becomes necessary!

This is fantastic! Finally someone is telling the TRUTH and threatening the use of one of the legitimate powers of the House!

Hardball posted part of the clip:




56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Rep. Cicilline goes there! The House should imprison directly. (Added video clip) (Original Post) manor321 Apr 2019 OP
I'm impressed Kurt V. Apr 2019 #1
Yes, I believe they have an actual "jail" in the Capitol. northoftheborder Apr 2019 #2
I believe Eric Holder also refused to appear over the so called "Fast & Furious" MichMan Apr 2019 #8
"So called." n/t rzemanfl Apr 2019 #26
whataboutwhataboutwhataboutwhatabout...nt RandiFan1290 Apr 2019 #40
No it was some reporter, I think... Volaris Apr 2019 #37
Technically, there's no jail. But there's space for it. A holding cell's at the Capital Police Dept ancianita Apr 2019 #46
Thanks for refreshing my memory! northoftheborder Apr 2019 #49
for most people, the $25,000 fine PER DAY lapfog_1 Apr 2019 #3
Maybe he offered to reimburse everyone later on. BigmanPigman Apr 2019 #11
That would strike to much close to bribery which in of itself can be a crime. cstanleytech Apr 2019 #15
He don't care 'bout no stinkin' crime charges... BigmanPigman Apr 2019 #17
Well anyone who would expect Trump to pay would be a fool. localroger Apr 2019 #24
Indeed. That'd be the day two fools met. Chin music Apr 2019 #30
Easier To Enforce, Too corbettkroehler Apr 2019 #42
Agree!!! tRump wants to play hardball - tells others to not appear. Fine, use your power Dems. RKP5637 Apr 2019 #4
Chris Matthews is such a Pain in the Ass. Chin music Apr 2019 #31
Tweety is easily one of the top ten media Buzz cook Apr 2019 #48
Can Trump pardon someone under that circumstance? If Impeachment proceedings are started can Trump dem4decades Apr 2019 #5
Simple solution if Trump is allowed to pardon in this circumstance. Stonepounder Apr 2019 #13
Two problems. cstanleytech Apr 2019 #16
No president has authority over Congressional Contempt nor Congressional subpoenas. Ford_Prefect Apr 2019 #19
Then 3 problems. cstanleytech Apr 2019 #20
I'm not seeing that. Trump can claim anything to be true including that gravity flows up. Ford_Prefect Apr 2019 #21
If moniss Apr 2019 #28
Then make those conservative justices do that. They must be challenged to stand up for the rule of OnDoutside Apr 2019 #39
I doubt moniss Apr 2019 #52
What I meant by "make" was that we can't say there's no point in pushing it to the courts just OnDoutside Apr 2019 #53
+1 Chin music Apr 2019 #32
They are banking on pardons Bluesaph Apr 2019 #6
Why don't they just jail the Trump family ? MichMan Apr 2019 #7
Please start with the manequin VP pence - get him away from the controls! erronis Apr 2019 #12
This Chin music Apr 2019 #33
He's listening to voices from his god - in a trance it seems. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2019 #41
Yes yes yes malaise Apr 2019 #9
Heard on Randi today they can even be imprisoned in a hotel room EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #10
Screw you Matthews, time for you to retire. This is exactly what Congress should do. Pepsidog Apr 2019 #14
Tweety can thank Wolf Blitzer watoos Apr 2019 #18
Yeah, sounded like Matthews just wants to give up and not use more extensive measures when RKP5637 Apr 2019 #22
Matthews still lives in a fantasy world Mr.Bill Apr 2019 #50
Quite true! I think that is also where a lot of people are at ... many don't get this is not the RKP5637 Apr 2019 #56
I liked this fella !! Never heard of him.. pangaia Apr 2019 #23
He's a good one. Used to be mayor of Providence. JudyM Apr 2019 #27
dems dont have guts for it; gop would do it in a second AlexSFCA Apr 2019 #25
and that is the problem. not_the_one Apr 2019 #35
Exasperating isn't it? triron Apr 2019 #36
Been watching this guy. Chin music Apr 2019 #29
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2019 #38
Exactly time to take off the gloves. Republicans and Trump wouldn't hesitate. Historic NY Apr 2019 #34
Finally! Catch2.2 Apr 2019 #43
All it would take is ONE arrest and imprisonment for Eyeball_Kid Apr 2019 #44
Yes, there is a prison in the Capitol Building. PatrickforO Apr 2019 #45
Who should go first? bluescribbler Apr 2019 #47
Prison! Yes! THIS is how we win. Start putting these effers in prison! Bonx Apr 2019 #51
Where is the Constitution is this located? former9thward Apr 2019 #54
I think our dear Dick Cheney set the precedent. colorado_ufo Apr 2019 #55

northoftheborder

(7,566 posts)
2. Yes, I believe they have an actual "jail" in the Capitol.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 07:36 PM
Apr 2019

I am trying to remember - back during W's era, someone, maybe Cheney, was subpoenaed, to testify, but refused. Someone was saying there is a space to use for arrestees in case of refusal; they never did actually arrest Cheney, or whoever it was. Perhaps someone else remembers that incident.

Volaris

(10,260 posts)
37. No it was some reporter, I think...
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 01:57 AM
Apr 2019

She wouldn't reveal a source, and the House held her in contempt and PHYSICALY JAILED her, if memory serves.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
46. Technically, there's no jail. But there's space for it. A holding cell's at the Capital Police Dept
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 02:05 PM
Apr 2019

From earlier dust-ups:

northoftheborder

(7,566 posts)
49. Thanks for refreshing my memory!
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 03:22 PM
Apr 2019

It was Karl Rove, who refused to testify that time. Nothing ever happened to that evil slime, though.

lapfog_1

(29,166 posts)
3. for most people, the $25,000 fine PER DAY
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 07:36 PM
Apr 2019

for refusing to testify to Congress should be enough to compel testimony.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
17. He don't care 'bout no stinkin' crime charges...
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:51 PM
Apr 2019

that is for them stooopid Dems (I imagine that is how his pea sized brain works).

corbettkroehler

(1,898 posts)
42. Easier To Enforce, Too
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 01:04 PM
Apr 2019

You make a great point. While I fully concur with the notion of incarceration by the Capitol Police, that only would work for those in contempt while on Capitol grounds.

Let the fines fly!

RKP5637

(67,031 posts)
4. Agree!!! tRump wants to play hardball - tells others to not appear. Fine, use your power Dems.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 07:37 PM
Apr 2019

That's all tRump understands. It's going to be a real showdown, so Dems might as well prepare for it. If you don't use it, tRump will run right over you.

Chin music

(23,002 posts)
31. Chris Matthews is such a Pain in the Ass.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:01 PM
Apr 2019

I thought he was going to switch party affiliation during the bush admin. All gung ho until bush stole the election, then many years of chris matthews cajolling repubs at every turn, and actually having the nerve to get edgey w democrats. I remember it well. he caved so fast. The change was striking. In my estimation.

dem4decades

(11,241 posts)
5. Can Trump pardon someone under that circumstance? If Impeachment proceedings are started can Trump
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 07:38 PM
Apr 2019

still pardon?

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
13. Simple solution if Trump is allowed to pardon in this circumstance.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:40 PM
Apr 2019

Trump pardons XYZ

Sgt. of Arms goes to jail cell and says: "You have been pardoned. Now, will you come and testify, pursuant to this subpoena?" and hands him a new subpoena from Congress.

XYZ says "No"

Sgt of Arms says: "OK, fine. Pursuant to this writ from Congress you are again in contempt and Trump will have to pardon you again. See ya."

Sgt. of Arms leaves XYZ in his cell and leaves.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
19. No president has authority over Congressional Contempt nor Congressional subpoenas.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 09:18 PM
Apr 2019

The language in the Constitution is specific and has been upheld. Trump and his surrogates, acolytes, and enablers are SOL on this one.

AFAIK the power to pardon cannot apply to actions undertaken to insulate the president from investigation and prosecution related to criminal activity by the president. In short, he can't use it to hide from Impeachment or to release those who participated in his crimes.

Ford_Prefect

(7,817 posts)
21. I'm not seeing that. Trump can claim anything to be true including that gravity flows up.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 09:35 PM
Apr 2019

It will not make it true nor does anyone have to restate the Constitution. In both cases I spoke to above, the language is explicit requiring and allowing no interpretation. Both have been upheld by significant conservative Justices including Rehnquist.

NO wiggle room exists. No matter how many doubters and trolls suggest otherwise.

What is required is for Democrats to stand firm and use the law wisely.

moniss

(3,949 posts)
28. If
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:35 PM
Apr 2019

The larger question is whether this group of conservative justices will follow the previous rulings. That's not a sure bet. When Berger was Chief Justice he voted along with the entire Court for a unanimous decision against Nixon. We don't have a moderate conservative in any of the current justices and it's a crapshoot right now how a vote would go. The final question to really ask is what will be the response of the people if the Supreme Court goes off the rails and sides with the Administration? I believe it may take massive civil, peaceful disobedience resembling a national strike to finally get it through to people that we are not going to accept this any longer and we refuse to watch another election be stolen in 2020 by people playing games with the registration lists, tabulators etc.

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
39. Then make those conservative justices do that. They must be challenged to stand up for the rule of
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 05:48 AM
Apr 2019

law, or the US is lost anyway.

moniss

(3,949 posts)
52. I doubt
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 04:56 PM
Apr 2019

that they will. When you say "make" them then surely you know that there is no practical way to do that. That is why this has been such a dangerous time right from the beginning when they blocked Garland. That is why I do feel that we will end up facing the question of massive civil disobedience. I'm sure that if you say to people that they will steal the election right before our eyes you will hear people say "They would never dare to do that. The outcry would be too great." Well if you had said in 2017 that by 2019 the US government would be separating asylum seeking families from their children and knowingly failing to keep records of where the children are, subjecting them to sedation against their will and placing them in the care of private companies where they are sexually abused people would have said the same thing. But yet here we are. Every citizen in this country needs to stop what they are doing, look in the nearest mirror and say "I live in a country where my government now finds it acceptable to commit horrible acts against child refugees." Then pause for about 10 seconds while continuing to look into your eyes in the mirror. Then keep looking into your eyes and say it all again but a little slower. Repeat this each time going slower for at least the time it takes to start crying. This is not a condemnation of those like you who I know do care. But faith in the court as currently stacked will leave us empty.

OnDoutside

(19,906 posts)
53. What I meant by "make" was that we can't say there's no point in pushing it to the courts just
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 05:51 PM
Apr 2019

because they're conservative. Make them take a decision, they may well go 100% against each time, but going to the people on the supposition that they would have, is of no use. We all believe that the majority of Americans want their country to advance, so shocking conservative results that hit what Americans have considered the norm, will achieve what you want. It will come at a cost, but it's where you are now.

 

EveHammond13

(2,855 posts)
10. Heard on Randi today they can even be imprisoned in a hotel room
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:26 PM
Apr 2019

because there really is no "jail" at the Capitol.

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
14. Screw you Matthews, time for you to retire. This is exactly what Congress should do.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:40 PM
Apr 2019

No more 1/2 measures.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
18. Tweety can thank Wolf Blitzer
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:55 PM
Apr 2019

Wolf was the dumbest news anchor on Jeopardy, Tweety was second dumbest.

RKP5637

(67,031 posts)
22. Yeah, sounded like Matthews just wants to give up and not use more extensive measures when
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 09:48 PM
Apr 2019

appropriate.

Mr.Bill

(24,103 posts)
50. Matthews still lives in a fantasy world
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 04:41 PM
Apr 2019

when Tip O'Neil and Reagan were buddies after the day's work was done. Those days are long gone.

RKP5637

(67,031 posts)
56. Quite true! I think that is also where a lot of people are at ... many don't get this is not the
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 09:23 PM
Apr 2019

old days, but a whole new breed to deal with. Old tricks will not work.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
35. and that is the problem.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:38 PM
Apr 2019

The GOP will go for the jugular.

The Democrats are all about "bi-partisan" and "compromise" and "reach across the aisle".

In other words, move to the center, which, after years of the GOP continuing to the move the center right by refusing to budge, while the Democrats again and again do the "bi-partisan, compromise, reach across the aisle" tango, has already been moved to just a few inches to the left of blatant white supremacy.

At least our powder is dry.

Catch2.2

(629 posts)
43. Finally!
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 01:56 PM
Apr 2019

The time for playing games is over! If verbal threats are all the Dems are going to do, nothing will change.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,410 posts)
44. All it would take is ONE arrest and imprisonment for
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 01:57 PM
Apr 2019

ignoring subpeonaes, and the dike would break, and quickly. The House ought to carefully target ONE Trump surrogate who's ignoring a subpeona, jail the asshole, and then announce that others will follow in short order. The surrogates will be lining up to testify before Congress.

PatrickforO

(14,516 posts)
45. Yes, there is a prison in the Capitol Building.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 02:00 PM
Apr 2019

Very, very sad if it comes to this, but I'll not be surprised if it does. I don't think Pelosi will be able to hold off the outrage against Trump as long as may be politic.

Many, including myself, believe that impeachment hearings would break into the right wing bubble and would serve to educate people in that bubble about what a dirt-bag we all know Trump is.

As I've quipped before, I was thinking of sending a ream of paper to the House so they can get going on Articles of Impeachment.

colorado_ufo

(5,717 posts)
55. I think our dear Dick Cheney set the precedent.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 07:32 PM
Apr 2019

Am I wrong, or didn't he defy a Congressional subpoena? And it just sort of "went away."

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