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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRep. Cicilline goes there! The House should imprison directly. (Added video clip)
Rep. David Ciciliine on Hardball goes there! Tonight he said the House can imprison people directly! And he said the House SHOULD do it if it becomes necessary!
This is fantastic! Finally someone is telling the TRUTH and threatening the use of one of the legitimate powers of the House!
Hardball posted part of the clip:
Link to tweet
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)northoftheborder
(7,566 posts)I am trying to remember - back during W's era, someone, maybe Cheney, was subpoenaed, to testify, but refused. Someone was saying there is a space to use for arrestees in case of refusal; they never did actually arrest Cheney, or whoever it was. Perhaps someone else remembers that incident.
MichMan
(11,787 posts)rzemanfl
(29,540 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,206 posts)Volaris
(10,260 posts)She wouldn't reveal a source, and the House held her in contempt and PHYSICALY JAILED her, if memory serves.
ancianita
(35,812 posts)From earlier dust-ups:
northoftheborder
(7,566 posts)It was Karl Rove, who refused to testify that time. Nothing ever happened to that evil slime, though.
lapfog_1
(29,166 posts)for refusing to testify to Congress should be enough to compel testimony.
BigmanPigman
(51,430 posts)Sort of like an unofficial pardon.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,430 posts)that is for them stooopid Dems (I imagine that is how his pea sized brain works).
localroger
(3,605 posts)Chin music
(23,002 posts)corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)You make a great point. While I fully concur with the notion of incarceration by the Capitol Police, that only would work for those in contempt while on Capitol grounds.
Let the fines fly!
RKP5637
(67,031 posts)That's all tRump understands. It's going to be a real showdown, so Dems might as well prepare for it. If you don't use it, tRump will run right over you.
Chin music
(23,002 posts)I thought he was going to switch party affiliation during the bush admin. All gung ho until bush stole the election, then many years of chris matthews cajolling repubs at every turn, and actually having the nerve to get edgey w democrats. I remember it well. he caved so fast. The change was striking. In my estimation.
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)assholes of all time.
dem4decades
(11,241 posts)still pardon?
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)Trump pardons XYZ
Sgt. of Arms goes to jail cell and says: "You have been pardoned. Now, will you come and testify, pursuant to this subpoena?" and hands him a new subpoena from Congress.
XYZ says "No"
Sgt of Arms says: "OK, fine. Pursuant to this writ from Congress you are again in contempt and Trump will have to pardon you again. See ya."
Sgt. of Arms leaves XYZ in his cell and leaves.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)#1 They could just issue a new subpoena.
#2 It could be used in charges of obstruction.
Ford_Prefect
(7,817 posts)The language in the Constitution is specific and has been upheld. Trump and his surrogates, acolytes, and enablers are SOL on this one.
AFAIK the power to pardon cannot apply to actions undertaken to insulate the president from investigation and prosecution related to criminal activity by the president. In short, he can't use it to hide from Impeachment or to release those who participated in his crimes.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)Ford_Prefect
(7,817 posts)It will not make it true nor does anyone have to restate the Constitution. In both cases I spoke to above, the language is explicit requiring and allowing no interpretation. Both have been upheld by significant conservative Justices including Rehnquist.
NO wiggle room exists. No matter how many doubters and trolls suggest otherwise.
What is required is for Democrats to stand firm and use the law wisely.
The larger question is whether this group of conservative justices will follow the previous rulings. That's not a sure bet. When Berger was Chief Justice he voted along with the entire Court for a unanimous decision against Nixon. We don't have a moderate conservative in any of the current justices and it's a crapshoot right now how a vote would go. The final question to really ask is what will be the response of the people if the Supreme Court goes off the rails and sides with the Administration? I believe it may take massive civil, peaceful disobedience resembling a national strike to finally get it through to people that we are not going to accept this any longer and we refuse to watch another election be stolen in 2020 by people playing games with the registration lists, tabulators etc.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)law, or the US is lost anyway.
moniss
(3,949 posts)that they will. When you say "make" them then surely you know that there is no practical way to do that. That is why this has been such a dangerous time right from the beginning when they blocked Garland. That is why I do feel that we will end up facing the question of massive civil disobedience. I'm sure that if you say to people that they will steal the election right before our eyes you will hear people say "They would never dare to do that. The outcry would be too great." Well if you had said in 2017 that by 2019 the US government would be separating asylum seeking families from their children and knowingly failing to keep records of where the children are, subjecting them to sedation against their will and placing them in the care of private companies where they are sexually abused people would have said the same thing. But yet here we are. Every citizen in this country needs to stop what they are doing, look in the nearest mirror and say "I live in a country where my government now finds it acceptable to commit horrible acts against child refugees." Then pause for about 10 seconds while continuing to look into your eyes in the mirror. Then keep looking into your eyes and say it all again but a little slower. Repeat this each time going slower for at least the time it takes to start crying. This is not a condemnation of those like you who I know do care. But faith in the court as currently stacked will leave us empty.
OnDoutside
(19,906 posts)because they're conservative. Make them take a decision, they may well go 100% against each time, but going to the people on the supposition that they would have, is of no use. We all believe that the majority of Americans want their country to advance, so shocking conservative results that hit what Americans have considered the norm, will achieve what you want. It will come at a cost, but it's where you are now.
Chin music
(23,002 posts)Agreed.
Bluesaph
(694 posts)None of them are afraid!
MichMan
(11,787 posts)One by one until he resigns
erronis
(14,948 posts)The 1000 mile stare is really creeping me out.
RKP5637
(67,031 posts)malaise
(267,808 posts)Dems are sharing civics lessons for free.
Lock them up!!!
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)because there really is no "jail" at the Capitol.
Pepsidog
(6,252 posts)No more 1/2 measures.
watoos
(7,142 posts)Wolf was the dumbest news anchor on Jeopardy, Tweety was second dumbest.
RKP5637
(67,031 posts)appropriate.
Mr.Bill
(24,103 posts)when Tip O'Neil and Reagan were buddies after the day's work was done. Those days are long gone.
RKP5637
(67,031 posts)old days, but a whole new breed to deal with. Old tricks will not work.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)JudyM
(29,122 posts)A real for-the-people guy.
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)not_the_one
(2,227 posts)The GOP will go for the jugular.
The Democrats are all about "bi-partisan" and "compromise" and "reach across the aisle".
In other words, move to the center, which, after years of the GOP continuing to the move the center right by refusing to budge, while the Democrats again and again do the "bi-partisan, compromise, reach across the aisle" tango, has already been moved to just a few inches to the left of blatant white supremacy.
At least our powder is dry.
triron
(21,915 posts)Chin music
(23,002 posts)very impressive and well informed. GO MAN GO!!!
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)Catch2.2
(629 posts)The time for playing games is over! If verbal threats are all the Dems are going to do, nothing will change.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,410 posts)ignoring subpeonaes, and the dike would break, and quickly. The House ought to carefully target ONE Trump surrogate who's ignoring a subpeona, jail the asshole, and then announce that others will follow in short order. The surrogates will be lining up to testify before Congress.
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)Very, very sad if it comes to this, but I'll not be surprised if it does. I don't think Pelosi will be able to hold off the outrage against Trump as long as may be politic.
Many, including myself, believe that impeachment hearings would break into the right wing bubble and would serve to educate people in that bubble about what a dirt-bag we all know Trump is.
As I've quipped before, I was thinking of sending a ream of paper to the House so they can get going on Articles of Impeachment.
bluescribbler
(2,105 posts)I vote Mnuchin.
Bonx
(2,039 posts)former9thward
(31,802 posts)How come no one in 230 years has found it?
colorado_ufo
(5,717 posts)Am I wrong, or didn't he defy a Congressional subpoena? And it just sort of "went away."