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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time to begin discussion of amending the Constitution - To remove impeachment from it
I don't think the framers of the Constitution envisioned the partisan risk that could come with wielding impeachment as a weapon.
To see that the bar of "high crimes and misdemeanors" change simply because of the parties in Congress and who is in the White House change, I don't think that is what the serious charge of impeachment is supposed to be about.
Nothing will get Trump impeached today, what if years from now, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is president, what will be the bar? Will it be in the words of Senator Lindsey Graham in 1999, in his own words that "impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office", do you want to wait for President Ocasio-Cortez's mere presence in the White House to be enough to become worthy of impeachment, to "cleanse" her from the office?
The law should not be a partisan game, remove impeachment from the Constitution if we're not going to use it for Trump and have lawmakers who will be more than willing to use it for a president who will do much less than he has already done.
unblock
(52,126 posts)so there has to be some mechanism to remove a horrible president, whether it's via impeachment or no confidence or recall or whatever.
there has to be some mechanism.
something that would have helped in this case would be a genuine "independent counsel", rather than a "special counsel", i.e., a counsel that could investigate a sitting president and bring charges without being in the chain of command under the president.
unfortunately, republicans corrupted this by investigating bill clinton practically his entire presidency and it was done away with. then donald fraud comes along and takes full advantage of his ability to interfere....
Takket
(21,529 posts)ck4829
(35,039 posts)If it's a check if and only if the House and the Senate are one party and the White House is another party, then it's not much of a check to begin with, you know?
Also, if the tables turn then it can be used as a petty tool to keep a 'radical' President in line (As in one who genuinely puts people first as opposed to some militaristic and consumerist society), then that is also tyranny by the House and Senate, I don't want tyranny by one man in the White House, nor do I want one that is a razor-thin majority in the House and 67 Senators.
Voting will matter a lot much more if the Constitution was amended to remove impeachment... You might want to think twice about voting for the joke candidate or for the guy who doesn't want to put his info on the table if we're going to be stuck with that person as president.
AncientGeezer
(2,146 posts)ck4829
(35,039 posts)Is it because of what I mentioned in the OP, that impeachment has become a partisan game rather than about the rule of law?
onenote
(42,610 posts)Even discussing the flight of pigs would make more sense.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)If those things can enter the marketplace of ideas, why not this?
onenote
(42,610 posts)ck4829
(35,039 posts)How did we get all those amendments after the tenth one? Even those original ten?
Somebody needs to inform all those lawmakers there's a big mistake with the Constitution with all those extra amendments.
onenote
(42,610 posts)We don't have declared wars anymore, so I guess we should also repeal the provision requiring Congress to declare war. And the "regulated" militia language and the prohibition against "cruel and unusual" punishment have very little meaning, so let's get rid of them too, I suppose.
By the way, there have been 18 impeachments in US history, resulting in 7 convictions, 7 acquittals, and 4 resignations (and that's not counting Nixon or anyone else that might have resigned before getting impeached). There was a 50 year gap with no impeachments from 1936 to 1986. Since 1986, there have been 6 impeachments resulting in 5 resignations or convictions.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)The bar for impeachment will become a lot lower.
I just don't get why we're handicapping ourselves here, that is patently ridiculous to me.
What's the opposite of absurd? Whatever it is... it doesn't exist in our government, in our media, with the voters, and on and on. We need to recognize that fact, and roll with that fact, or get rolled over by it.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)We've got ignorance, unhelpfulness, aggression, errors, conspiracy theories, bigotry, and more out there in this marketplace of ideas.
And here's something that could really increase the value of every vote and would also patch a critical hole in how the Constitution interacts with the rule of law and how it is enforced... and we shouldn't even talk about it. Why?
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Make sure that the parties have nothing to do with enforcing them.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)will talk it down to.
I'm willing to compromise.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)"Does it exceed what Trump has done? Does it exceed the Trump Bar?"
If not, then the actions are not worthy of impeachment.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Can I go ride my skateboard?
No sweetie, its almost dinner time and then you need to pick up your room and start your shower.
WHY DO I EVEN HAVE A SKATEBOARD THEN?! I SHOULD THROW IT AWAY!
Simply because partisan rancor has made impeachment unfeasible at this time doesnt mean that we just abandon the entire concept in a fit of childish pique.
ck4829
(35,039 posts)What we're dealing with is more like:
Can I go ride my skateboard?
No sweetie, here are the keys to my car and here's a loaded grenade launcher for you to play with. Have fun!
And then this is the conversation to a different child (You know, how it could look post-2020 election):
Can I go ride my skateboard?
No you mistake, get in the snake pit and if I feel like it, I'll throw you scraps tonight.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)Think about it.
qdouble
(891 posts)Without the possibility of impeachment, you give the president a full power of a tyrant. The House and Senate are voted in by the American people... if a president is impeached and convicted unjustly, the incumbents in Congress would suffer for it. There's absolutely no reason to remove it from the constitution as it's a safe guard.