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Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:47 AM

The signal that will and probably should trigger impeachment. Tipping point. It's happened before.


One lesson from Watergate is that public opinion is crucial. When it does events move quickly, as they do when tipping points are reached.

During 1973 and 1974 Nixon's approval rating eroded and stayed low. Public desire for removal from office rose over that time.

1974 (via Pew Research and Wikipedia)

July 20 week: Public opinion crosses 50% in favor of removal from office
July 24: SCotUS rules Nixon must hand over tapes
July 27-30: House Committee recommends 3 articles of impeachment
Aug 5: White House releases unknown "smoking gun" tape
Aug 7: Two R Senators meet Nixon at WH.
Aug 8: Nixon resigns

Senators can sniff the wind.



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Reply The signal that will and probably should trigger impeachment. Tipping point. It's happened before. (Original post)
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 OP
Ninga Apr 2019 #1
brooklynite Apr 2019 #2
lostnfound Apr 2019 #3
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #4
Marthe48 Apr 2019 #18
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #20
NoMoreRepugs Apr 2019 #5
Jarqui Apr 2019 #8
KY_EnviroGuy Apr 2019 #21
NNadir Apr 2019 #6
LanternWaste Apr 2019 #9
Cosmocat Apr 2019 #10
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #7
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #11
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #14
2naSalit Apr 2019 #12
CaptainTruth Apr 2019 #13
ancianita Apr 2019 #15
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2019 #17
groundloop Apr 2019 #16
BadgerMom Apr 2019 #19
ThoughtCriminal Apr 2019 #22

Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:51 AM

1. Critical and important information. I urge all who agree to please make your voice known! Nt

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 09:56 AM

2. July 20....8 MONTHS after the Saturday Night Massacre...

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 10:14 AM

3. That was in an era of cohesive responsible media, without an internet swamp and a cultnt

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 10:26 AM

4. That's a common perception, esp those who mention talk radio, but I'm not so sure it is accurate


From an interesting May 2017 Vox article (emphasis added):

Consider how conservative radio host Clarence Manion framed the role of the media in the early days of the Watergate hearings. In an interview with Dan Lyons, an anticommunist Catholic writer, Manion directly attacked the freedom of the press. That noble-sounding phrase, he argued, was something journalists hid behind to appear uniquely vulnerable to government overreach; in fact, the media held the cards.

“The result,” he told his listeners, “is that a gullible public is caught in the talons of a power that ironically disguises itself as freedom.” Lyons echoed the charge, arguing that Watergate had indeed exposed a dangerous concentration of power — but in the press, not the executive branch.

As the rest of the nation followed the unfolding story of corruption and cover-ups, the Watergate-as-liberal-conspiracy narrative quickly took hold in conservative media. After listening to the Lyons interview, Paul Harvey, the radio personality, repeated the attack in his nationally syndicated broadcast. How, he wondered, could the American people accept an all-powerful media capable of turning “a prosecution into a persecution”? And when Sen. Jesse Helms appeared on Manion’s show, he railed against “the incredible New York Times-Washington Post syndicate, which controls to a large degree what the American people will read and learn.”

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:32 PM

18. Do people who have conservative news shows see any irony?

do they think that if there was limited or government press they'd have a show? That they'd be getting paid for their spew?

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:30 PM

20. Trump-RepubliCon equals self-centered power-mad. They always think they will come out on top


They assume a fascist or dictatorial government would be conservative / tRumpian / republiCon and they'd be the first to sign up and get selected.

It's the same thinking process driving rednecks to vote against their own interests in favor of billionaires because they think "Gonna make it big as soon as tRump gets gubmint off'n the backs of real people like me!"

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Response to lostnfound (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:16 AM

5. Exactly. Different world with Faux and Hate Radio.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:24 AM

8. Absolutely and the GOP is more corrupt.

The GOP want power. If they have to commit crimes to keep it, they will.
the Mueller report is telling that story with the destruction of evidence and no one on the GOP crying foul.

We do have a different set of circumstances today - the GOP are more extreme.
But for years the GOP have said 'country first!' and they'll uphold the Constitution.
Watergate, Iran Contra, WMDs, Russiagate ... etc

Any one here foolish enough to think Bill Barr will uphold the law?

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:54 PM

21. And, they now have a number of churches covering their backs with.....

false justifications based on greed and false interpretations of scripture......

I expect certain sects to begin listing on the NYSE any day now. They may as well since it's now such good business....

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:21 AM

6. There are limits to the comparison.

In 1974 Nixon did not have a Republican equivalent of the Soviet's Pravda that Trump has in Fox News to repeat his obvious lies as truth.

Secondly the Senate did not act like the Soviet Politburo.

Believe it or not, in 1974 the Republican party was opposed to Russia instead of owned by Russia.

Times have changed.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:30 AM

9. I think you listed critical differences between then and now.

1974 did not have a salad bar of news organizations. In the here and now, we choose the media outlet most palatable to our biases and sentiments and allow it to form (if only partially) our own narrative.

In '74, the big 3 networks mostly avoided editorial and analysis unless they specifically called it editorial or analysis, usually given only in the last two minutes of the evening national news in small segments like Point-Counterpoint.

These days, it seems we simply choose the flavor of kool aid we ourselves enjoy the most, while simultaneously calling everyone else 'sheep' for enjoying a different flavor of the same kool aid.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #6)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:44 AM

10. YYEEEPPP

It if falling on deaf ears at this point, but censure in the House is the way to go.

Makes the statement people want from articles of impeachment, but leaves the senate out out it, and will be complete, without having 45, the conservative noise machine, the "liberal media" spin it as a failure to convict him because they would not have ONE Single republican vote in the Senate, IF McConnell even let it come up for a vote.

Not to mention being an easier vote politically for D House members in R or even split districts.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:23 AM

7. Pelosi, et al, know what they're doing.

And they understand that public support is crucial. This is not going to happen overnight - polls show only about 40% support for impeachment now, and only 67% of Dems. Trump's approval rating is down slightly, but it's not yet indicative of a trend.

Slow burn and constant pressure on Trump to build public support.

That being said, unless there's a bombshell and/or the Republicans know for certain he's going to take all of them down with him, I still don't see them voting to remove. I'm not sure they even have a tipping point with Trump outside of some currently-unforeseen event occurring.

The public, of course, is a different matter.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:46 AM

11. Tipping points could include fruit from 1 of 12 hidden Meuller referrals, Federal investigations of


Tipping points could include fruit from 1 of 12 hidden Meuller referrals, Federal and state investigations of 8 of 9 tRump family organizations, and not to forget the House Committees' investigations.

What that means is that even if Democratic leadership doesn't want to impeach now, they need to be ready to bang the impeachment hammer at any moment.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #11)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:54 AM

14. Sure.

I'm just not convinced that there's a line any of that could cross that would result in the Rs in the Senate convicting him. They're so worried about losing power that I think they're somewhat blind to the possibility that the public will hold them responsible for appeasing and enabling Trump.

We'll see - public opinion will have a lot to do with it.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:53 AM

12. K&R

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:54 AM

13. So right now public opinion is about what it was before hearings started.


Ipsos Poll Conducted for Reuters
Mueller Investigation Initial Reaction Poll 4.19.2019

https://tmsnrt.rs/2DjEq3R
[link:https://tmsnrt.rs/2DjEq3R|

What do you think Congress' top 3 priorities should be?

Healthcare reform 53% (#1 priority)
Impeaching Trump 18% (#7 priority)

Image: https://ibb.co/8B5rbvc

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 11:58 AM

15. Good stuff. Thanks. One more thing tips toward impeachment. The unredacted evidence.

Once the public knows that, there will be no Trumpian spin that wins the public.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:17 PM

17. Yes. tRump-RepubliCons have no facts only spin. Democrats must be all facts no spin


Need to constantly return interviews and commentary back to the facts such as indictments, convictions, money laundering, lying, damning statements in Mueller report, and so much more.

Applies to any and all conversations whether on the street or on TV or online.

Facts are against tRump.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:16 PM

16. I have to wonder what's in Cohen's recordings, surely they hold a bombshell or two

I've been thinking that public opinion might start to change quickly once Cohen's recordings come out. I can't imagine that he bothered to record Tiny simply discussing the weather, there's gotta' be some really damning shit in there.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:47 PM

19. Called Rep. Lujan's DC office.

We have been horrified watching Republicans shirk their Constitutional duties. Democrats must step up, investigate and, barring something drastic, impeach.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 08:23 PM

22. The 1973-75 recession was also a factor

The country was seeing an end to the post-WW2 prosperity and was not happy. The poll questions were not about that, but I have little doubt that it fed extra anger about the state of the country.

I see a repeat of the 2008 crash and a Greater Recession as being very likely, but it is not likely to appear prior to 11/20.

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