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Stuart G

(38,359 posts)
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:12 PM Apr 2019

There is another French Gift to the U.S.A. And it is a Great Gift..

It is an old gift, but one that has lasted a long time. France was England's enemy during the mid 1700s. The two were powerful, hateful enemies. So, when the 13 colonies decided to seek independence, guess who helped them out in a whole lot of ways. You can look that one up if you want. Yes, France helped us gain our independence from England. Not a bad gift I would say. That is in the history books if you want to check it out.

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There is another French Gift to the U.S.A. And it is a Great Gift.. (Original Post) Stuart G Apr 2019 OP
Everybody knows who Lafayette was. At least, I hope they do. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #1
Please assume nothing....Most here might know Lafayette..Most or Some? Stuart G Apr 2019 #2
If they don't, they need to get their ignorant asses back to middle school, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #4
There are a crap ton of cities named Fayetteville after him. nt okaawhatever Apr 2019 #23
No, they don't. ismnotwasm Apr 2019 #40
The French literally drained their treasury dry to support our war of liberation. roamer65 Apr 2019 #3
All so very true. Stinky The Clown Apr 2019 #5
I doubt it!! dai13sy Apr 2019 #7
My wife was a substitute teacher back in the '90s. Stonepounder Apr 2019 #14
Trust me, most of the middle school teachers today are just as ignorant. YOHABLO Apr 2019 #16
I trust you. llmart Apr 2019 #25
When did Democrats start bashing teachers? radical noodle Apr 2019 #34
I can only speak from experience. It is what it is. Not bashing all teachers. YOHABLO Apr 2019 #39
You said MOST middle school teachers radical noodle Apr 2019 #41
They're probably teaching what a great scholar and novelist Ayn Rand was. Mr. Evil Apr 2019 #21
Careful throwing reality needledriver Apr 2019 #6
Interesting outlook. They were still smarting from the French & Indian War, and FailureToCommunicate Apr 2019 #12
The French were still in North America. HubertHeaver Apr 2019 #17
Oh, I know of course. I just had not heard that reason for France's assistance. FailureToCommunicate Apr 2019 #24
Consider what could have been had the French monarchy not fallen. HubertHeaver Apr 2019 #33
Remember MAGAt types going non-stop bdjhawk Apr 2019 #8
Sure do. I went to France for that reason in 2005. BigmanPigman Apr 2019 #10
I remember people trying to remind Rethugs of that, as they poured French wine down the drain sandensea Apr 2019 #9
I was at a family dinner that included my right-winger SIL at about that time, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #11
Tant mieux! sandensea Apr 2019 #18
Vive La France! Progressive2020 Apr 2019 #13
Vive La France, et presente, Georges Washington de La Fayette (1779-1849) appalachiablue Apr 2019 #15
And now, what can we do for them? raging moderate Apr 2019 #19
Macron will be starting a fund-raising campaign tomorrow. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #20
The people of France gave us the Statue of Liberty. raging moderate Apr 2019 #22
And it was members of La COMPAGNON DU DEVOIR who did the restoration work on it. pangaia Apr 2019 #32
I have read that over #350 Million has already been donated by the billionaire Zoonart Apr 2019 #28
The French Navy skirmished the British Navy so they could not help out ... Botany Apr 2019 #26
Haiti also supplied troops to fight with us during the Revolution. rickford66 Apr 2019 #27
There would be no USA without Frances' help and intervention. lark Apr 2019 #29
Most people in the U.S.A. do not know what you have written at the top of your post. (near no.29) Stuart G Apr 2019 #30
Yeah, if it weren't for the French... ECL213 Apr 2019 #31
Post removed Post removed Apr 2019 #35
Someone clearly got up BlueMTexpat Apr 2019 #37
Where does the OP say that? BumRushDaShow Apr 2019 #38
This is so true. I remember BlueMTexpat Apr 2019 #36

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
3. The French literally drained their treasury dry to support our war of liberation.
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:21 PM
Apr 2019

The Spanish contributed a good amount of Spanish American silver to fund our war against Britain.

The Spanish and French hated Britain...viscerally.

https://www.whatitmeanstobeamerican.org/encounters/the-american-revolution-story-has-a-hole-the-size-of-spain/

Our dollar gained its name from the Spanish American eight reales or “dollar”. In fact, Spanish American reales were monetized all the way up to 1857.

dai13sy

(298 posts)
7. I doubt it!!
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:56 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:55 PM - Edit history (2)

I am amazed daily at what they DON'T teach in school these days.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
14. My wife was a substitute teacher back in the '90s.
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:51 PM
Apr 2019

She tells of Jr. HS students who didn't know what the holocaust was!

llmart

(15,499 posts)
25. I trust you.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:26 AM
Apr 2019

I was a substitute teacher for awhile in both middle school and high school. I subbed in a math class once where the regular teacher had put a math/Algebra problem on the board plus the solution and method she used to get the answer. When I got to the math class before students arrived, I saw immediately that the answer was incorrect and I could see immediately where the mistake in her solution was.

I went home so discouraged. Also, I have one niece who was hired as a science teacher in middle school and my brother, whose child it was said to me, "I can't believe she's going to be a science teacher because that was her worst subject in high school."

radical noodle

(7,990 posts)
34. When did Democrats start bashing teachers?
Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:23 AM
Apr 2019

My husband and daughter are teachers AND Democrats, along with many friends. Please stop generalizing about stuff like this.

 

needledriver

(836 posts)
6. Careful throwing reality
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:51 PM
Apr 2019

at the conventional “wisdom” of the plucky Colonials hiding behind rocks and trees and kicking the Redcoats asses.

The Revolution would have failed utterly if not for massive support from the French; weapons, uniforms, cash, an army, and a navy! Don’t think the French were doing it for altruistic reasons - they fully expected to step into the power vacuum created when the new American experiment failed and thus regain North America!

FailureToCommunicate

(13,989 posts)
24. Oh, I know of course. I just had not heard that reason for France's assistance.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:31 AM
Apr 2019

That France hoped the Colonial revolt would fail. I thought it took lot's of arm twisting to convince the French king to come to the Colonies aid, and even then only reluctantly. But, certainly the the French fleet's late but overwhelming arrival near Yorktown (the navel battle of the Chesapeake) finally greatly helped end the seven year conflict.

HubertHeaver

(2,520 posts)
33. Consider what could have been had the French monarchy not fallen.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:04 PM
Apr 2019

French control of New Orleans and the entire Great Plains. English control of Canada. Russia controlling Alaska and the West Coast and Spain controlling Texas and the Southwest. That upstart wanna be country on the eastern seaboard wouldn't have had a chance.

But with the collapse of the French monarchy and the rise of Napoleon, all hell broke loose.

bdjhawk

(420 posts)
8. Remember MAGAt types going non-stop
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:13 PM
Apr 2019

On “Freedom Fries” when the French had the audacity to ask for real proof instead of blindly joining Bush & Co using fake “proof” to start a war in the Middle East?

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
10. Sure do. I went to France for that reason in 2005.
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:19 PM
Apr 2019

I brought my book "Dude, Where's My Country?" by Michael Moore so that the French would not think I supported that ass. Whenever I asked the citizens how they felt about the US they were so cool and their long history was evident. They always told me, "governments come and governments go....things will change back again". THEY made ME feel better about our loser POTUS. I loved France and the people from when I first went there in '97 and I knew I had to return with my dog.

sandensea

(21,526 posts)
9. I remember people trying to remind Rethugs of that, as they poured French wine down the drain
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:15 PM
Apr 2019

All because France was trying to warn us against invading Iraq.

Which goes to show how difficult it is to be a good friend sometimes.

And that's what France has always been for us: the good friend, with a hell of a lot more experience with the ways of the world that we have (or anyone else in the new world).

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,267 posts)
11. I was at a family dinner that included my right-winger SIL at about that time,
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:29 PM
Apr 2019

and I'd brought a bottle of a nice French wine. SIL refused to drink it. I said, "Great; that's more for me."

sandensea

(21,526 posts)
18. Tant mieux!
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:57 PM
Apr 2019

It's incredible how fanatical right-wingers got about the Iraq invasion - which is why, 15 years later, their slavish devotion to Cheeto never surprises me.

Il sont fous!

Progressive2020

(713 posts)
13. Vive La France!
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:40 PM
Apr 2019

They are an old ally and also a great champion of democracy throughout history. So much of the philosophy and spirit of democracy comes from the French, without whom we would not have won the Revolutionary War. Vive La France!

appalachiablue

(41,047 posts)
15. Vive La France, et presente, Georges Washington de La Fayette (1779-1849)
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:54 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:12 AM - Edit history (1)



Wiki. Washington Louis Gilbert de La Fayette (1779–1849) was the son of Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette, the French officer and hero of the American Revolution, and Adrienne de La Fayette. The elder La Fayette named his son in honor of George Washington, under whom he served in the Revolutionary War. From 1783, La Fayette grew up in the Hôtel de La Fayette at 183 rue de Bourbon, Paris. Their home was the headquarters of Americans in Paris. Benjamin Franklin, John and Sarah Livingston Jay, and John and Abigail Adams met there every Monday. They dined with the La Fayette family as well as with the liberal nobility, such as Clermont-Tonnerre, Madame de Staël, Morellet, and Marmontel.

In 1789, the French Revolution began. After 10 September 1792, in the wake of the September Massacres, La Fayette went into hiding with his tutor, Felix Frestrel. His mother was put under house arrest and, later, in prison. On 22 July 1794, his great-grandmother, Catherine de Cossé-Brissac, duchesse de Noailles, his grandmother, Henriette-Anne-Louise d'Aguesseau, duchesse d'Ayen, and aunt, Anne Jeanne Baptiste Louise, vicomtesse d'Ayen, were guillotined.

Exile from France: In April 1795, Georges was sent to America with Frestrel. While there, he studied at Harvard, and he was a house guest of George Washington at the presidential mansion in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and at the Washington family home, Mount Vernon, Virginia...Lafayette's visit to America: Georges accompanied his father on the latter's triumphant visit to America in 1824 and 1825. Throughout most of the long tour, he kept close company with his father's secretary, Auguste Levasseur. They observed a volunteer fire company turnout in New York City. He met George Washington Parke Custis at Arlington House. He visited Mount Vernon, and he met Thomas Jefferson at Monticello.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Washington_de_La_Fayette

raging moderate

(4,280 posts)
22. The people of France gave us the Statue of Liberty.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:31 AM
Apr 2019

They collected their sous and their francs from all kinds of people all over France until they had enough to pay for the construction and shipment of that statue to us. It was an extraordinary act of love! This was after they helped us to win our Independence. We have to help them now.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
32. And it was members of La COMPAGNON DU DEVOIR who did the restoration work on it.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:59 PM
Apr 2019

http://www.historicalcarpentry.com/compagnonnage.html

As well, it was they who built many of the great cathedrals of the Middle Ages -


https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/opinion/26iht-edjohnson.1.8482430.html

The Compagnons attempt to restore pride in manual work. Their forbears helped build Europe's great cathedrals and more recently retrained Parisian woodworkers to assemble the Eiffel Tower in Paris. A group of Compagnons from near Reims in France moved to New Jersey for several months in 1999 to restore parts of the Statue of Liberty.

Zoonart

(11,748 posts)
28. I have read that over #350 Million has already been donated by the billionaire
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:35 AM
Apr 2019

owners of some of the luxury brands of Paris.

A good start.

Botany

(70,285 posts)
26. The French Navy skirmished the British Navy so they could not help out ...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:31 AM
Apr 2019

... Cornwallis @ the battle of Yorktown.

rickford66

(5,498 posts)
27. Haiti also supplied troops to fight with us during the Revolution.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:34 AM
Apr 2019

I wonder if Trump knew this. One reason we should never forget them when they need help.

lark

(22,998 posts)
29. There would be no USA without Frances' help and intervention.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:41 AM
Apr 2019

Love France, it's such a beautiful place, they really take care of their antiquities - that's why this is such a shock. They are routinely refurbishing many cathedrals every year, this should not have happened.

Stuart G

(38,359 posts)
30. Most people in the U.S.A. do not know what you have written at the top of your post. (near no.29)
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:52 AM
Apr 2019

Response to Stuart G (Original post)

BlueMTexpat

(15,348 posts)
37. Someone clearly got up
Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:18 AM
Apr 2019

on the wrong side of the bed.

Whatever their rationale and yes, their well-earned hatred of England (centuries of war and occupation can do that) definitely played a significant role, they did it.

The financial drain might have been the final tipping point for precipitating the French Revolution.

Lafayette had to flee France during the Revolution or he might well have been decapitated. He was later reinstated as a respected elder statesman and remained active in French politics. Here's a brief overview with some interesting tidbits about his life. https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-the-marquis-de-lafayette

Rochambeau, the other best-known French aristocrat to assist Washington with his ultimate victory, never fled France, but was arrested during the Terror. He was not executed, but retired to his country estate and stayed well out of politics until his death early in the 19th century. http://www.anb.org/view/10.1093/anb/9780198606697.001.0001/anb-9780198606697-e-0300605

BumRushDaShow

(127,271 posts)
38. Where does the OP say that?
Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:34 AM
Apr 2019


France had significant territory here themselves and as with many strategic thinkers, the enemy of my enemy applies. But that doesn't preclude the OP's characterizing it as a "gift" to the colonists... or are metaphors too difficult to understand?

BlueMTexpat

(15,348 posts)
36. This is so true. I remember
Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:02 AM
Apr 2019

learning about the Marquis de Lafayette, even in my little elementary school in Podunk, MT.

Of course, he was the ONLY one that I remember as being mentioned at all, primarily due to his close friendship with Washington. In reality, he was far from alone. We would NOT have prevailed in that struggle without assistance from France.

Here are some worthwhile sites to check out:

How France Helped Win the American Revolution https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/how-france-helped-win-american-revolution

A quick overview: http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/revolut/jb_revolut_francoam_1.html

French Alliance, French Assistance and European Diplomacy https://history.state.gov/milestones/1776-1783/french-alliance

One Wikipedia overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

These are only a few of the many that can be found. Yet all too many Americans know - or care - nothing about this.

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