General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow to get Mueller Report (and underlying evidence) and tax returns -IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS
While the clock is ticking, we are currently and will continue to deal with delay and stall tactics by Barr and are likely to head to court.
Except, If the House authorizes its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry, thus a judicial proceeding, then it can get the Mueller Report, its underlying evidence, and his tax returns.
"One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding. To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutors office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a grand jury investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence."
(co-authored by Lawrence Tribe, constitutional lawyer at Harvard law)
The full Mueller report could be released if the House opens preliminary impeachment hearings
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html?utm_term=.4c9c080819c2
I can't express my views on the matter more eloquently than our member DontBooVote:
"Impeachment is not a waste of time. It is an opportunity to lay the evidence on the table for all to see. If that evidence shows a conspiracy with russia and/or a case for obstruction of justice, then let every Senator log his/her vote and let the chips fall where they may.
Impeachment is IMPERATIVE for the sake of history and the historical record!
If he is found, by a preponderance of the evidence, to be guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, and some Senators refuse to impeach, then so be it! We're no further at a loss than we are right now. Because it will be obvious to all, should the evidence show guilt, that the repug senators are to blame for a failure to impeach, not Democrats'.
And if the evidence shows innocence (yea, right! ), then the damage from Democrats from an acquittal will be mitigated by Democratic Senators voting with repugs to acquit leaving Democrats able to righteously claim that, in the end, they were fair to tRump and voted to acquit. "
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12002637
Below, is an excellent article below which is an in-depth analysis of why the House must begin impeachment proceedings:
Impeach Donald Trump
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/impeachment-trump/580468/
unblock
(51,973 posts)that's what gets us the special investigative powers.
we don't need to actually impeach him.
just hold the hearings, gather the evidence, and keep laying it out for the public as more and more impeachment hearings.
bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Why are we fucking around??? Get it done NOW! No more mister nice guys!!
FirstLight
(13,352 posts)Dems are trying to be so "above board" they are getting railroaded in the process... gah!!!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)doing here? For heavens' sake, mail or even hand-deliver it to our leaders in the house so they can get on it. What the fuck are you waiting for?
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)We are giving the GOP and their cult enough time to create a false narrative that somehow Trump is the victim and Obama administration sought to undermine his Presidency. ENOUGH !! Strike while the iron is hot, it will definately change the news cycle.
srobertss
(261 posts)for Barrs redacted version of the Mueller report. I think thats what I would do since thats just a few days away, supposedly. After it comes out, we may have a clearer picture of how much evidence they had that they deemed was not enough to establish that there was a criminal conspiracy.
If it comes out and they dont act, I will contact my congressman at that point. Because I think we really need to see his tax returns. Its worth galvanizing the right over impeachment to gain that info.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)strategy being worked out this next week or two since there is a recess coming after tomorrow, for two weeks. I would hope that something would happen prior to that but I'm not holding my breath either, just wishful thinking. It's getting hard to face each day without knowing that this pall exists, darkening the planet, in such an ominous manner and still try to dredge up just one more ounce of optimism about the future.
FirstLight
(13,352 posts)How can you take a recess when we have a "state of emergency" anyway?
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)it's a bad time for a recess but they aren't just going home. They go on educational group trips so they know what is really happening around the world during this time. I wish they cold arrange to do those things while in session. I also think that every day is of utmost importance in this moment in our fight to remain a nation and a recess should come at a time when we all need to be paying attention. These nut cases can't be trusted, not for a minute.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)that is explicitly charging the last administration as traitors, what is next a call to lock them all up, when will it be enough !!
malaise
(267,784 posts)Now!
BSdetect
(8,989 posts)Nevermypresident
(781 posts)refer to the Senate for an impeachment trial.
So, we have more investigatory power to get ahold of evidence (i.e. Mueller report) and present to the American public, especially via open hearings, before the 2020 election.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)Better to have this information out and fresh for the election, vs now which gives them an extra year to spin it.
We know impeachment won't actually go through, but putting all of this bad stuff out there in the months leading up to the election may be a lot more impactful.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)there's SO MUCH information that it will still be coming out long after the election, all fresh, if we started releasing it today.
erronis
(14,941 posts)We seem to focus on the perfect world where things happen according to some script.
We're dealing with a group of traitors who will throw any script in the fire and will play every dirty dickie trick they can.
mopinko
(69,803 posts)y'all dont want to impeach spanky, go ahead and start w barr. gets all the same evidence. convict barr, and you know spanky is toast.
yes, i' dreaming.
always fun to do a little spitballing.
2naSalit
(86,031 posts)bluestarone
(16,720 posts)Hell AGAIN i say we DON"T even know if Mueller is done or not?
BigmanPigman
(51,430 posts)"On February 21, 1975, Mitchell, who was represented by the criminal defense attorney William G. Hundley, was found guilty of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury and sentenced to two and a half to eight years in prison for his role in the Watergate break-in and cover-up, ...".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Mitchell
Ponietz
(2,903 posts)The Resistance wants impeachment and may become hopelessly apathetic if we do not push this to the limits. Besides, the lights are still blinking redthey will do it again in 2020 with even greater impunity if we do not act.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)and then Trump just refuses.
Evolve Dammit
(16,632 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,430 posts)on MSNBC or CNN. I forget who said it and the context but at the ti e I wondered, "Then what the Hell are we waiting for...DO IT!". Pelosi must know this and for some reason my brain keeps going back to her.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)I have been saying this for some time, if you want the entire unredacted report, IMPEACH, and it will be exhibit A.
panfluteman
(2,054 posts)The moment of truth has finally come - heck, Trump and the Republicans have left us no other option than to open impeachment proceedings.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)slumcamper
(1,602 posts)If ever there was a time when the machinery of constitutional government must operate in full force, it is now.
The moment is pregnant with cause--the "fierce urgency of now," to borrow a phrase; our plan of government demands that impeachment proceedings swiftly begin, as the very foundations of government and rule of law face an existential threat unlike any other in our history.
Either enact the plan and save the nation, or let it spiral toward the dustbin of history and join countless other failed states whose trustees lacked the courage or commitment to challenge the course of drift and demise.
In other words, let's roll. Get it on.
Ponietz
(2,903 posts)Well-stated, slumcamper.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)And it does not matter what the stupid corrupt Senate Republicans will do or will not do. That is not the issue.