I came across a pic of my wife with Shaquille O'Neal. I used to think it was pretty cool but

[redstateblues]

Lately I’ve decided it’s outrageous-he has his arm around her obviously too tight. I demand an apology, if not I will boycott all of the products he represents. I can’t believe I used to think this kind of thing it was OK.

[StarryNite]

1. Well I'm glad you know better now!

[Autumn]

2. You know what they say you can do when you're a star. nt

[Ms. Toad]

3. You don't get to complain on behalf of your wife.

Believing you have the right to decide for your wife when, and from whom, she accepts physical contact is just as offensive as not asking before giving a hug in the first place. The issue is consent, not whether a particular type of contact is objectively good or bad.
You don't own her body.

[redstateblues]

4. Hopefully I can convince her. I'm working on it!

[lunatica]

6. Jesus!

It’s obvious he’s joking!

[Ms. Toad]

8. Joking in a manner

that suggests concerns about people's right to determine by whom, when, and how we are touched are not to be taken seriously.

Whether you agree that Biden stepped over the line, or (even if you agree he did) there might have been a better way to address it, I have friends for whom this kind of uninvited touch ranges from uncomfortable to traumatizing. It is not a joke - and I'm tired of it being treated that way. My response was intended to make that point.

[lunatica]

9. So now you're the self appointed joke police?

I’m sure everyone will fall right in line with your moral superiority.

[Ms. Toad]

11. No -

I am a person who has many friends that this particular joke hurts. People whose discomfort with unwelcome touch not only makes it impossible to participate in social groups they would like to participate in, but whose rignt not to be touched is now also being trivialized by jokes like this.

[lunatica]

15. It's up to your friends to set boundaries just like the rest of us.

I certainly don’t expect my comfort zone to set the law on what everyone else feel comfortable with. Maybe your friends don’t even need your help on setting their boundaries either.

[Ms. Toad]

17. No it is not.

It is up to the person doing the touching to ensure they have consent before touching.

As to my friends, my awareness of this issue is in large part because a significant number of friends of mine expressly asked for assistance. More than a decade ago, a group I belong to that is touchy-feely - in less intrusive ways than Joe biden is -started losing members because they did not want to be touched without consent, and it was a regular practice in that group to greet each other with hugs.

After relatively lengthy discussions, we began to include regular announcements whenever we gathered to remind the "Joe Bidens" among us that not everyone is comfortable being hugged - and to ask before hugging someone unless you have established a relationship with that person's consent that includes hugging.

So yes, it is a real issue that excludes people. It is the responsibility of the person doing the touching, and - although not expressly in this group - I am helping remind others to respect personal boundaries at the express request of friends who are not only overwhelmed by people touching them, but overwhelmed to the point of isolating themselves because they are constantly put in the position of putting up barries to uninvited hugs.

Frankly, for those of you who insist that the onus is on the recipient to set boundaries, the law says otherwise. The definition of the tort of battery (i.e. civil legal action) is - in essence - touching someone witout their consent. I'm not suggesting that anyone actually litigate the matter - but it is clear from the law where the boundary obligation lies.

[lunatica]

18. Holding others responsible for violating your touchy feels space

is the definition of being completely unrealistic. But by all means refuse to see that point and blame everyone else for how you feel. Don’t ever bother to be accountable for how you feel. It’s everyone else’s fault!

[Ms. Toad]

24. So you seriously beleive you have the right to touch anyone you choose

unless they object? That's not how it works.

You have no right to touch anyone else's body without consent. It's not up to them to say "no," its up to you to get actual or implied consent.

[PCIntern]

10. It was a "Modest Proposal" kind of joke

and I feel for the poster because this has happened to me here many times: and you wonder why our Party is so fractious?

[Ms. Toad]

12. Not really.

It is a joke ithat trivializes people for whom unwelcome touch is a significant issue, who have been ridiculed during this discussion of Biden's inappropriate-without-consent touching.

You'd rather people like this (or LGBT people, or fat people, or whoever the current acceptable social pariahs are) be driven from the party becasue we don't like being the butt of jokes?

[tonedevil]

14. Jokes are supposed to be funny. /nt

[lunatica]

16. So now you decide what's funny?

Or even slightly humorous?

[tonedevil]

19. Do you think it should only be you who decides? /nt

[lunatica]

20. That response shows you believe you are the best decider

I definitely know what I think is funny and whether you agree with me or not is not how I decide.

[tonedevil]

21. OK /nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Weird flex but ok.

[Dan]

7. Have you thought about kicking Shaq's ass...?

[Captain Stern]

13. If you boycotted all the products that he represents...

...there wouldn't be very much left that you could buy. That guy will pretty much endorse anything. I like his style.

No endorsement is too big, or too small, for Shaq.

[LanternWaste]

22. The important thing is we get to touch who we want, when we want

The important thing is we get to touch who we want, when we want, where we want and how we want. Without that, human contact is no more than characters typed on a screen.



(extremes are absurd unless they're clever... neither of ours was)

[mfcorey1]

23. I took a picture holding Stevie Wonder's hand as I led him to his limo. I demand an apology for

him entwining his fingers in mine!