Brexit : Seven MPs resign from the Labour party !!!

[OnDoutside]

MPs will sit as independent group after resigning in protest at party’s Brexit stance and its handling of antisemitism

Seven MPs have entered the room. Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree, is speaking. She says they have all resigned from the Labour party this morning and will now sit in parliament as an independent group of MPs.

She says she has become embarrassed and ashamed to be in the Labour party.


Sebastian Payne
✔
@SebastianEPayne
The Independent Group:

- @ChukaUmunna
- @MikeGapes
- @lucianaberger
- @anncoffey_mp
- @ChrisLeslieMP
- @gavinshuker
- @angelasmithmp

Luciana Berger says she cannot remain in a party that is “institutionally antisemitic”. She says the leadership has failed to address hatred against Jewish people within its ranks and that she is leaving behind a culture of bullying, bigotry and intimidation. They will publish a full statement setting out their position shortly.

Chris Leslie, MP for Nottingham East, is speaking now. He says it has not been an easy decision and that they have all been MPs for very many years. The Labour party they joined, campaigned for and believed in has been hijacked by the “machine politics of the hard left”, he says.

He says it would be irresponsible to allow Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister, which is something other Labour MPs will say privately. He accuses the leadership of having a “narrow and outdated ideology”. “To them the world divides between oppressor and oppressed, class enemies, when in truth the modern world is more complicated than this.”

Now Angela Smith, MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge, says that she is from a Labour supporting working class family who were ambitious for her. “Most people are like my family. They do not want to be patronised by left wing intellectuals who think that being poor and working class is a state of grace.” She says her decision to resign her membership has been very painful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/feb/18/several-labour-mps-set-to-quit-the-party-politics-live

[cwydro]

1. I'm in Wales right now. Planning my day and watching.

This Brexit thing is nonsense.

[OnDoutside]

8. You're hardly going to the game on Saturday ?

It is nonsense. I give huge credit to these MPs to be the first to show bravery in stepping forward, which hopefully will encourage others to come forward now.

[cwydro]

11. I'll be in Ireland by Saturday.

May catch it in a pub!

[OnDoutside]

13. 5.45pm Kick off, so a perfect time on Saturday Evening ! Hopefully you will get a better result

against them than we did !

[cwydro]

17. Always a blast to watch in a pub.

I was in one last night in Pembroke and there were two different games going on.

Not sure who, but one was Swansea.

[mitch96]

36. I was in Galway/Westport in September....

Wish I was there now... Great time...
I'm still trying to wrap my American brain around this brexit thing and how the backstop is going to wring out.. Seems like a stalemate.. How to have a no border/border between the North and the Republic..
m

[OnDoutside]

66. I really like Westport, though I don't get up that direction often enough. There are only two

solutions to the backstop, ignoring the technology canard, border in the Irish sea or UK stays in the Customs area. Were it not for the DUP holding the Tories in power, they would have dropped Unionist from the party name, and waved them goodbye.

[malaise]

2. Hmmmmmmm

“To them the world divides between oppressor and oppressed, class enemies, when in truth the modern world is more complicated than this.”

Stunning indeed - it may be more complicated but this is still a fact and so are both racism and antisemitism.

It would be interesting to know if they were Blair supporters.

[OnDoutside]

5. Yes, they would be centre-right of the Labour Party, Luciana Berger was once a girlfriend of Blair's

son.

The question now is who follows them. It's ironic that the first ones to leave are Labour MPs, when the most amoral corrupt party are the Tories. There are significant numbers of moderate Tory MPs who are sickened by the ERG, so will there now be some coming out from their side.

[Soph0571]

19. Soubry will be next I think

But the Tories are very tribal so I think the right of centre crowd will hold their water until 29/03..... after that all gloves will be off. If there is a no deal Brexit the exodus from both Labour and the Conservatives will make the 35 who defected to the SDP in the 80's small potatoes..... and it will happen very quickly IMO

Let us see - but this is yet another sign of the chaos still to come
And quite frankly Corbyn deserves this bloody nose - he has allowed Berger in particular to be vilified by the left of the party.

[OnDoutside]

22. I hope she is, but we'll see. There is a definite opportunity for a centrist party to take hold but

it does need a substantial amount to jump, to provide a major realignment of British politics. I think Corbyn will take the Labour Party down with him, like the ERG taking the Tories down.

The one thing that hasn't been pushed enough in the UK, is this notion that "Let's leave and if it doesn't work out, we can always go back in". This is such a silly point. If the UK reapplies, they will not get the same deal (and opt-outs) they had, and they can be blocked by the likes of Spain re Gibraltar.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

28. I don't understand the constant hate on Corbyn

Great Britain has a parliamentary system and the opposition party has no power. Why should labour spend their political capital on bailing the torries out of the horrible position they put themselves in with respect to Brexit? Those seven Tony Blairites can start a new party but it won't change the underlying dynamic. Unless and until the Torrys ditch May and call for a second referendum then Great Britain will leave the EU with no deal.

[Adrahil]

29. Corbyn is like B. Sanders...

He is stuck in a 1960’s world view long since overcome by reality. The world is not a set of binary oppositions.

[T_i_B]

44. Staunch Blairites

It should be noted at this point that Corbynite v Blairite is essentially a continuation of the Bevanite v Gaitskellite bunfight of the 1950's.

The factional nonsense in the Labour party is something that I find very offputting indeed about them.

[malaise]

48. Interesting and disappointing

because that same split is visible in most Social Democratic/Democratic Socialist parties these days.

In reality there is no third way. When basic social good policies are considered socialist, this planet is in serious trouble. Sadly some believe that the market can replace society.

On need only look at the gap between rick and poor to know that it is the rich oppressing the poor.

[QC]

64. I've seen them referred to as "Red Tories." n/t

[T_i_B]

65. According to Momentum supporters...

...you've got "red tories", "yellow tories", "tartan tories", Tory tories, even "green tories"!


I have to admit, Corbyn / Momentum supporters are very good at creating Tories where non previously existed. The trouble is, their job is to create Labour supporters instead.

[QC]

67. Who do you think would be a decent leader instead of Corbyn? n/t

[T_i_B]

68. David Lammy

Stella Creasy is also very good.

The trouble is, the creepy cult of Corbyn dominates almost everything with Labour at the moment. And the Corbyn cultists are more interested in finding heretics than winning converts.

[QC]

69. Lammy's record looks interesting here --

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10678/david_lammy/tottenham/votes

and generally very positive.

He's does seem pretty hawkish, at least based on that page. Why do you suppose that is?

[suffragette]

61. Well one, Angela Smith, supports water privatization and thinks some people have a "funny tinge."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/18/angela-smith-apologises-for-funny-tinge-remark

The MP Angela Smith has apologised for having “misspoke” after she appeared to refer to people from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds as having a “funny tinge”.

In a discussion on the extent of racism in the UK on BBC2’s Politics Live show, Smith – who on Monday left Labour to help found a new independent grouping in parliament – said society needed to address the important debate rather than run away from it.

Referencing the fact working-class women find life hard enough but that BAME working-class women face greater impediments, the MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge said: “The recent history of the party I’ve just left suggests that it’s not just about being black or a funny [partially inaudible], you know, different, from the BAME community.”

Ash Sarkar, the political commentator from Novara Media, interjected: “A funny what?”. Smith’s comment, however, was not addressed by the host Jo Coburn.

https://m.

Link to tweet

[T_i_B]

63. Angela Smith's views on water nationalisation

Not sure I accept much of her argument. As one of her constituents, I consider her views on fracking to be a greater concern though.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/nationalising-britain-water-industry-environment

[suffragette]

71. Yikes, pro-fracking, too. Just really reading up on events today and trying to understand it.

Certainly not impressed with her.

[T_i_B]

72. This is an old coal mining area

And the mines round here were not gas free, so there could be potential for fracking locally and this could become a big local issue going forward

https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/fracking-row-between-council-and-sheffield-mp-1-9203330

I moved here from North East Derbyshire, where Labour lost in 2017 thanks in part to the sitting Labour MP coming put in support of fracking locally. As a general rule, fracking is not something people want anywhere near their local area.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/10887759#post19
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/108814894#post1

[suffragette]

73. Thanks for the links. It must be so frustrating to keep ending up with pro-fracking elected

officials, even after moving to another area. And money for themselves seems to be driving that, no matter what they say about benefits to their constituency. Fracking is much more likely to injure people in the community than to help them and most people there seem to get it.

Hope you can get someone better in the future.

[octoberlib]

3. Remainers which compose at least

half of the electorate, don’t have a party representing them. Something had to give.

[lamsmy]

9. This is so true

[RandySF]

4. Labour will not succeed until Corbyn goes.

I wouldn't even call him a progressive so much as a reactionary who represents some og the worst elements of the left.

[OnDoutside]

6. He's old school, and not in a good way. Hardline, resistant to change, believes what he believes...

remind you of anyone in the US ?

[smirkymonkey]

49. Would that be Sanders?

Just wondering. Could describe a lot of people.

[Soph0571]

20. He is not progressive at all - unless you call living in 1973 progressive?

How he has managed to get so many young people on side when he is basically a patronising old git who clouds himself in faux self righteous bollocks is beyond me

I am currently politically homeless cause of the old wanker - this independent coalition looks quite attractive at the moment?!?!?!

[CrossingTheRubicon]

47. I agree. Regressive/reactionary populists on the left are not progressives.

Jeremy Corbyn is a disaster for the Labour Party and for the UK.

[JI7]

7. Fuck Jeremy Corbyn

[OnDoutside]

10. Umunna says they whole-heartedly support the People's Vote campaign.

He says it’s “been like getting blood from a stone getting the Labour party to do the right thing by our constituents on this issue”.

Chris Leslie says, to people who say “nothing ever changes”, “if you don’t try, you’ll never know”. Umunna adds: “You can’t change the status quo if you rejoin it... We are saying there needs to be a new offer and a new alternative.” He says they will not be joining the Liberal Democrats.

[T_i_B]

45. Sooner or later they will have to form an alliance with the Liberal Democrats

Trouble is, some of these people are very tribal, even though Labour has rejected them. These MP's need all the friends they can get, and that means working with others.

[OnDoutside]

51. It will be a while yet. There's an awful lot of bitterness still, and

considering what happened subsequently, I think it is understandable.

[T_i_B]

52. Oh, Blairites and Lib Dems have disliked each other for some time

Getting them to put aside their differences to work together will not be easy. Especially given how tribal Labour people are. Even when a large part of the Labour party has been trying to force them out for not being from the correct faction!

[OnDoutside]

54. True, though I think the bigger reckoning is between the Tory factions.

[T_i_B]

56. Again...

If the sane wing of the Conservatives split, they will have to put previous rivalries aside and work together with the newly formed Independent Group, Liberal Democrats and even the Greens.

Tribalism is heavily ingrained in British politics, and presents a severe barrier to getting us out of the mess that we are in as a country right now.

[pecosbob]

12. People have a tendency to start lighting sh*t on fire when the government stops listening

[pazzyanne]

14. I'm afraid that the USA is heading in that direction.

tRump has been a pox on our nation and we need to find ways to vaccinate against his damage that he perpetrates daily. He is tone deaf and narrow sighted in his attempts to "govern". I use that term lightly! We need to find many more non-violent ways to make changes this country needs to survive. First plan of action is to work hard on getting out the vote and controlling voter suppression in 2020. Resist. Persist.

[OnDoutside]

15. I believe the US is in a better position, with the Democratic Party holding up strong. Both main

parties in the UK are in total disarray, while the Tories may implode as the GOP may do. The LibDems may have been in a position to truly become the 3rd way but they blew their political capital when they went into coalition with Cameron.

[pecosbob]

18. Sad part is it didn't just start with this administration in the U.S.

Payday lenders, prison pipeline, privatization of essential services. Corporations became predators instead of partners within the community. The government stopped repairing bridges and sewers...things have gone downhill from there. If both parties kowtow to Amazon and Wells Fargo, people will start breaking sh*t when they have no say and no investment. I'm not talking about social issues, but bread and butter economics here...

[OnDoutside]

21. The biggest issue in all that is the watering down of regulation, which when attacked by capitalism,

allows crony capitalism to thrive.

[T_i_B]

46. This isn't even the government that's not listening

It's the main opposition party and it's leader Jeremy Corbyn with fingers firmly in ears.

[OnDoutside]

16. The youth wing of the UK Labour Party has tweeted its reaction......

@YoungLabourUK

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, we’ll keep the red flag flying here.

1,596
10:14 AM - Feb 18, 2019

[Blue_Tires]

23. This is why I never, ever, EVER...

understood all the hero worship hype over Corbyn like he was some kind of leftist savior or Bernie Sanders clone... All we're seeing here is what happens when you appoint a member of the "horseshoe left" into a position of leadership.

Corbyn is polarizing, he talks a half-decent game but is utterly shit at his job, and if he had put up any more than token resistance, Brexit never would have happened (of course the dirty secret is Corbyn wanted Brexit more than Farage did, albeit for different reasons).

[OnDoutside]

24. We should forget the curious circumstances of how he got elected in the first place

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Labour_Party_(UK)_leadership_election#Dispute_over_election_integrity

[bronxiteforever]

25. Incredible that the Tories are a disaster & labour

Has Corbyn at the helm. The only person May can make look worse than her is Corbyn.
Narrow and outdated he is and he is leading his party with a toxic brew of policy confusion & antisemitism.

What amazing bad luck for the UK to have its two major parties sliding into the chaos of Brexit.

[NewJeffCT]

39. We may have Trump

but, at least our leading Democrats are good - Pelosi in Congress, and the top presidential candidates

[bronxiteforever]

59. Agree. We are in much better shape.

For the hope of liberal democracy everywhere I pray our British friends come to their senses and hold a people’s vote.

[QC]

26. Interesting to see so many people here siding with conservatives.

These are Blairites, not brave crusaders for justice.

[nycbos]

38. Maybe do to his long history of antisemitism.

[theboss]

62. Politics is more than just picking a winning side

Corbyn is simply repulsive. His being in Labour doesn't change that.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

70. It always seems to be a proxy war between factions of the left

There's the Bernie/Corbyn wing which I guess is responsible for Brexit even though Corbyn was against the first referendum. Then there's the more moderate wing which is not as powerful as it was under Blaire. I really want to see Labour's policies come to fruition.

There's a lot in the Labour platform that is very strong including giving workers a voice if the company they work for decides to off-shore their job or shut down. I don't think Corbyn is anti-semetic but his "British irony" comment should have been apologized for similar to Ilhan Omar. I think Corbyn could rally support if he calls for no 2nd referendum and just stay since there isn't enough time to call for it before Britain leaves. I hope a no deal Brexit doesn't materialise but it seems more and more likely by the day.

[beachbum bob]

27. Weakening the opposition party to Conservatives is SO SMART....for conservatives. they saw how it

worked for GOP in America with russia's help

[Adrahil]

30. Except Corbyn is pro-Brexit too...

The vast majority of Labour voters are not. Corbyn is not mounting an effective anti-Brexit effort.

[beachbum bob]

31. labor should replace him, he has no magical hold on the position

[Adrahil]

32. EXACTLY.

I do not know why they are reluctant to do so. He is poison for Labour, as I always knew he would be.

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Labour did better in 2017 than in 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

Share of the vote up from about 30% to 40%, 30 more seats won. So "poison, as I always knew he would be" doesn't seem to have any basis.

Who do you think would be a more popular Labour leader, electorally? I really don't think there's anyone now.

[Adrahil]

40. That was before Corbyn decided to betray Labour voters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/02/most-labour-members-believe-corbyn-should-back-second-brexit-vote

[Byronic]

41. And before the anti-semitism issue grew and grew.

We certainly weren't aware of just how useless (knowingly or otherwise) at dealing with these genuine problems in the Labour Party he was.

[Adrahil]

42. Yup. NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. There is a cautionary tale in this for our politics.

And when you realize the U.K. has always been to the left of America it's the proverbial canary in the coal mine.

[Javaman]

35. It's like being a passenger on the Titanic and seeing the Iceberg before everyone else...

and trying to get everyone attention before it's hit.

come the end of march, this will be a very sad thing to watch.

[nycbos]

37. If I was a citizen of the UK I would't have a political home.

Labour has become a home for antisemitism under Corbyn. He is an antisemite. He is pro Russia. He put zero effort into the Remain campaign.

His following seems more like a cult that a political movement.

[Byronic]

43. Exactly.

During Corbyn's leadership many of the more moderate Labour MPs have been hounded and insulted by elements in his party. Disagreement is fine. I do not expect a passionate Corbyn supporter to be much of a fan of Tony Blair, for instance, but this abuse of so-called 'Blairites' went much too far.

I was very proud to see Luciana Berger take a stand today. For a considerable period of time she faced, personally, the antisemitism rife in the Labour Party that Corbyn has done next to nothing to stop.

Certain members of the party have been calling for her deselection. They cannot call 'traitor' now she has left on her own accord.

Good on you, Luciana.

Nevermind Blair, this is currently not the party of Attlee, Hardie, Wilson, Callaghan, Kinnock or John Smith.

Let us hope they return to their genuine roots soon.

[OnDoutside]

53. Corbyn has always been pro IRA, pro PLO etc and anti state of Israel.

Which matches a lot of the Labour left wing. He might be anti-Semitic as well, but foremost he is anti Israeli state.

[Byronic]

55. Yes, he has

but the way in which he allowed the anti-semitism to go unchecked in his party, and the way some of his own MPs were allowed to be attacked, was a disgrace.

We aren't just talking ideological stances here. We are talking a blind-eye to some rather unpleasant stuff. It's sad to see in the Labour Party.

When you have someone like Chuka Ummana saying that the Labour Party under Corbyn is 'institutionally racist' then that shows just how far the party has been allowed to drift from its core beliefs.

[T_i_B]

50. My MP is one of those quitting Labour

Last edited Mon Feb 18, 2019, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I live in Penistone & Stocksbridge, so my MP is Angela Smith.

She's been one of the very few Labour MP's who've been any good on the disastrous project to leave the EU. However, she's a staunch Blairite, firmly on the right wing of Labour. She's pro-fracking and has links to the water industry. Angela Smith has been openly critical of Corbyn and Momentum, which has lead to her getting a vote of no confidence from Penistone & Stocksbridge CLP.


I fully sympathise with her decision to quit Labour. That party is a total mess. However, she's already made a gaffe about people with a "funny tinge" which has been seized on by Corbynites. She's also very tribal indeed and is known for being personally vitriolic towards members ofthe UK's established centrist party (the Liberal Democrats) which will no doubt cause her problems further down the line because the new Independent Group needs all the allies it can get.

Interestingly, it seems that her husband is staying in Labour (despite being as right wing and anti-Corbyn / Momentum as she is) and is up for re-election to Sheffield Council in May. That could be very awkward indeed for all concerned as the Liberal Democrats are targeting that ward.

[Byronic]

57. Yes indeed

that was a real facepalm moment. Every bit of me cringed when I saw that.

[T_i_B]

58. She apologized quickly

But I fear that the damage has already been done.

Link to tweet

[T_i_B]

60. Jeremy Corbyn supporters celebrate emergence of new thing to blame for his lack of success

https://newsthump.com/2019/02/18/jeremy-corbyn-supporters-celebrate-emergence-of-new-thing-to-blame-for-his-lack-of-success/

Supporters of Jeremy Corbyn were jubilant this morning as they are now able to blame the party’s lack of success on a small number of MPs who have quit the party.

“This is brilliant news,” said Simon Williams, a leaf-painter and chairman of the ‘We love Jeremy’ online fan club.

“For months now, we’ve had to blame the mainstream media, Tony Blair, and Israel for total failure of Jeremy Corbyn to gain any sort of traction in the polls, and, to be honest, it was starting to get to the point where people were beginning to suspect that it might be that having a rubbish leader was actually preventing Labour being successful"

[T_i_B]

74. And then there were eight...

Link to tweet