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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGetting impatient. Where the hell are the Mueller indicments??? Why don't they impeach?
Transcripts were release on the 2/7. A week later and nothing! This is BS. I'm beginning to think they aren't going to move on King Donald at all so it gives the Dems more traction to flip all branches to blue.
Shell_Seas
(3,319 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)If Mueller indicts Kushner or Don Jr, there will be discovery: The AGs must show Kushner's and Jr's lawyers what evidence they have, relevant to the case. All of it. Any document that might be useful to the defense.
And once Kushner and Jr see what evidence Mueller has, what he knows and what he doesn't know, then Trump will know what evidence Mueller has and then the big fish will get away.
brooklynite
(93,873 posts)Remember when Nixon fired Archibald Cox and was Impeached the next day?
Oh, right...
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Well vote him out in 2020, until then were stuck with him. Lets take it as an object lesson in making sure we win elections from here on out.
Last edited Thu Feb 14, 2019, 02:10 PM - Edit history (1)
No magic Mueller wand. We are going to need to vote.
I like the fact its taking a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully it annoys the shit out of Trump and his disgusting family.
bearsfootball516
(6,369 posts)People need to stop expecting Mueller to solve everything. Get your plan together for how you're going to help defeat Trump in the 2020 election.
MH1
(17,537 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)but our best strategy is to focus on getting a candidate up that will beat Trump, not worry about what Mueller is doing.
Eye on the prize. 2020 will be tough enough, especially after the recent news about DHS gutting the anti-Russia committees. Looks like we'll need to work at the state and local level to ensure we get a reasonably fair election and boot out as many Repubs as possible, including Hair Furor.
Mueller will do what he does and on his time. Congress is not waiting on him. Neither should we.
infullview
(978 posts)IMPEACH THIS SOB NOW!
Codeine
(25,586 posts)hes not going to be convicted. The math just isnt there.
Poiuyt
(18,087 posts)It wasn't there at first for Nixon either. But when the facts were laid out, the Republicans turned against him.
Republicans in the Senate will do whatever their constituents tell them to do. Right now, they strongly support trump. When the public sees the extent of his crimes, the tables may turn.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)if he thrusts us in a war??? will the repigs go along or will that be the last straw. Cause Americans will not tolerate a war with Iran when our defenses are not quite up to par. Or am I wrong to assume that.
ismnotwasm
(41,921 posts)Its doesnt remove a president
Wounded Bear
(58,440 posts)Right now, with what they have as 'evidence' impeachment would be seen as a blatant political move that c/would backfire on Dems in 2020.
Keep the pressure on, continue the investigations, protect the Mueller probe as much as possible and fight Trump at every turn. That is Congress's job. Our job is to work on the next election to ensure maximum Dem success.
Please don't distort what I said for your strawman arguments.
VOX
(22,976 posts)Assuming we all make it to 2020 (I write that unfunny line with some genuine concern), it will undoubtedly be one of the strangest years in our history. You can see it coming in your minds eye, scenario after scenario.
2020 should have the living hell prepared out of it.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,085 posts)The optics of having a President whose own son has been indicted in relation to actions to the campaign itself are going to look pretty awful for the GOP.
In that event, we could see a Come to Jesus moment from congressional Republicans urging Trump to either resign or not seek re-election because of the damage it might cause. Whether or not he heeds that advice is unknown but don't think that wouldn't happen.
The GOP convention is still over a year away.
At some point, Donald Jr. and Kushner will be indicted, and I think it will be well before the GOP convention.
Yes, it is good to plan for all contingencies and not expect impeachment to be the only goal, and to try to build up our own Presidential candidate in the process.
But we shouldn't ignore the process or the chance of impeachment or forced resignation because those things are not some distant impossibility at this point.
This is an unprecedented scandal of corruption and arguably treason (at least de facto treason, if not de jure treason) and this shouldn't be treated simply as a political matter.
This is a crime.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)Brawndo
(535 posts)Don't count on any republicans deserting tRump, no matter what comes out, it'll be "Fake News". It's not a political party, it's a cult and he's their messiah. Operate from that perspective and you won't be surprised. The ONLY way out of this is to vote them all out.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,085 posts)And that's not a given.
Obviously that's something we have to work for regardless.
But what Trump did is not simply political, it is criminal, and there need to be consequences for him beyond merely him losing an election. Jimmy Carter lost an election, and he was arguably the finest human being to ever hold the office.
Brawndo
(535 posts)in the same way that history is written by the victors he will only be held accountable for those crimes if we win. We can't hope that our elections are fair, we must DEMAND it. That involves putting on public pressure to ensure fair vote counting, insisting on changing to paper ballots, etc.
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Plus, look at all the stuff that has come out lately regarding McCabe and the Manafort ruling.
I predict we may be about to get a week or two build up to names like Kushner or Jr or Hicks and others very close to the family.
Tomorrow just might be another Indictment Friday, but I wonder if we'll start to hear leaks about big indictments first.
A lot of people are expecting big news this month.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)something is going to happen between now the 28 February that is why Cohen trial is postponed for now, I am just speculating/assuming. He supposed to report to prison on March 6th.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,085 posts)Things will happen, and that includes to members of the Trump family.
NYC Liberal
(20,132 posts)actively determined to do so from day one. And it was all bullshit, so it wasnt like they were taking their time getting the facts right.
A legitimate investigation takes time. Even years.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,539 posts)Same with impeachment. Even if Fat Donnie were impeached, there's still the trial in the Senate, where he'd have to be convicted by a super majority. Right now that's impossible. There could be a videotape of Putin and the Orange One collaborating on how Putin's team was going to insure Trump would win and the Repugs still wouldn't vote to convict. Look at the result on the bill to keep Trump from lifting sanctions on the Putin-connected oligarch, which should have been a slam-dunk. The sanctions were put in place by Obama in response to evidence that Russia interfered in our 2016 elections. Flynn promised Russia they'd be lifted if Trump were elected, and voila, here you go. Moscow Mitch put to a vote the bill to retain the sanctions against Russia, and enough Rebuplican supporters of our biggest foreign adversary voted against it to kill the attempt.
More telling is the recent action by Donnie Two Scoops to gut the commission to keep foreign entities from interfering in our elections. Trump really should register as an agent for a foreign power.
Here, I'll help him by providing the FARA form:
https://www.justice.gov/file/991281/download
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,496 posts)As long as he hangs onto 32 34 percent approval and has fox news and rw radio to defend him 24/7
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but it just aint there. We are the solution, and we need to make sure that we understand that and GOTV.
NewJeffCT
(56,827 posts)that if Fox News had been around in Nixon Era, he likely would have not had to resign in the face of impeachment
CK_John
(10,005 posts)infullview
(978 posts)There's more than enough evidence to show high crimes and misdemeanors to support an impeachment. So much so that if it gets trotted out now, the Senate will have to cave and oust him.
Why are we waiting? To give him time to start a war? To give him time to remove all the people looking into making sure our elections aren't stolen by a foreign power? To allow him to privatize our prisons, dirty our drinking water, make sure he has enough time to install yet another conservative supreme court judge? Where the hell is all this going to end? Waiting will only make things worse - we are ceding our democracy to a dictator.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,041 posts)Our House has been on the job about 4% of their term (1 of 24 months). They're working on many fronts. Nothing they do will provide immediate relief from the damage done by Trump, his cabinet, or the GOP's dereliction of duty and active dismantling of our government over the past 2 years.
Speaker Pelosi and the House have managed to slam on the brakes in some areas, already. The notifications and plans by various committees have put members of the cabinet on notice that they can be held accountable and that they should not expect the cover they enjoyed with a complicit GOP House.
Impeachment is coming. Meanwhile, educate the electorate and don't forget there are 3 governorships on the line in 2019.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Well, no they wont, actually. Trump is still supported in the red states and enough Senators would fear losing their offices if they convicted him that hed be acquitted.
infullview
(978 posts)Once proof of being a Russian asset is shown to people I think you will see a lot of attitudes change.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I doubt any of his base will change their patterns, their habits or their attitudes even if he blew up a temple or a mosque. In fact, I'd guess they'd simply dig in deeper.
Every ray of light on him already has changed no minds. What specifically leads you to believe more would then have that effect?
renate
(13,776 posts)... , whether it's popular with their constituency or not, is almost never even mentioned, because we know that won't happen. Whether a Russian plant stays in the office of the President of the United States all comes down to a handful of GOP traitors wanting to keep their jobs.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)that any minds that are changeable have been changed. At this juncture everyone has cemented themselves into their positions and will not be moved. Trump is a demagogue, and those who follow demagogues - be they Left or Right - are not swayed by logic or fact.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Yet, trump is not close to being removed.
Im not even sure the votes would be there if they found a video of trump laughing about selling out the USA while being paid in gold by Putin and the Saudis.
Hekate
(90,202 posts)Just not the one we all want in our pipe-dreams. He's getting closer all the time, though. Any moment now, Don Jr gets it.
In addition, from the beginning Mueller has spun off whole chunks that are not in his purview. He doesn't leave things on the shelf. IIRC there are three states involved now, which means the Trump Crime Family is staring down the barrel of RICO charges that could unravel their whole business empire.
Running for and becoming POTUS is going to turn out to be the worst mistake the Orange Con ever made in his life.
As to impeachment, the House is now doing their job, and we have to do ours.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)plus Mueller and his team of lawyers are casting out their net far and wide. They are following the money, and these people you could refer as criminals or have Mafia tendencies.
They are going after the body before they get to the head. Squeezing the body until the head pops. That's my analogy.
ooky
(8,887 posts)than, say, Nikki Haley. And the longer he stays in office the more destructive he is to Republicans.
That said, if they were to finally bust his orange lazy evil ass tomorrow, I would uncork champagne and have a party.
getagrip_already
(14,250 posts)The russians are still operating. GOP agents are still disenfranchising voters. Dark money is still flowing. Dirty trick operations are still underway.
Remember, they don't have to win by turning out their voters. They can win by keeping ours away. I am still convinced russian hackers swung states by kicking selected individuals off voting roles. They had very precise precinct level data. They knew who to target and where to do it.
All of this is still out there. They can do it again.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think there have been some fundamental changes in mid-range voter sentiment, and the mid-terms illustrated that quite accurately.
getagrip_already
(14,250 posts)Or at least house races. I'm not convinced they engaged at any extensive degree.
But those forces will care about the presidential race. They can inflict a lot of focused harm to democracy, which is their objective.
Don't be deceived just because they didn't engage in 18.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)Active Measures there are plenty of Russian agents already in the States.
Also Russians have hacked into our internet systems before, they will do it again.
KWR65
(1,098 posts)The House of Representatives impeaches the President and the Senate removes him from office.
gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)that he doesn't expect any of this to lead to an impeachment or anything else for Trump. I was gutted. Not only is he a good journalist IMO but he is also a lawyer from a family of laywers. I cannot stand the thought of him finishing this term and possibly being reelected to another.
Odoreida
(1,549 posts)At least that's how it looks to me.
Impeachment will have to come some other way.
If only he'd rob a 7-11 or something.
getagrip_already
(14,250 posts)He isn't well. You can see that clearly. Plus no medical report.
But then we have pence. Ughhh.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)his unhealthy diet habits will get his ass.
bdamomma
(63,658 posts)impeachment does not imply criminal it is just a hearing and the House can start proceedings.
I found this regarding Impeachment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment
snip of article:
Impeachment is the process by which a legislative body levels charges against a government official. It does not mean removal from office; it is only a statement of charges, akin to an indictment in criminal law. Once an individual is impeached, he or she must then face the possibility of conviction by a legislative vote, which judgment entails removal from office.
Because impeachment and conviction of officials involve an overturning of the normal constitutional procedures by which individuals achieve high office (election, ratification, or appointment) and because it generally requires a supermajority, they are usually reserved for those deemed to have committed serious abuses of their office. In the United States, for example, impeachment at the federal level is limited to those who may have committed "high crimes and misdemeanors".[1]
Impeachment exists under constitutional law in many countries around the world, including Brazil, the Republic of Ireland, India, the Philippines, Russia, South Korea, and the United States.
More from Wikipedia
Congress regards impeachment as a power to be used only in extreme cases; the House of Representatives has initiated impeachment proceedings only 64 times since 1789 (most recently the 2010 impeachment, then removal from office, of Judge Thomas Porteous of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana) with only the following 19 of these proceedings actually resulting in the House's passing Articles of Impeachment:
Two presidents:
Andrew Johnson, Democrat/National Union, was impeached on February 24, 1868, by the House of Representatives after violating the newly created Tenure of Office Act by a 126 to 47 vote. President Johnson was acquitted by the Senate, which voted 3519 in favor of conviction, falling one vote short of the necessary two-thirds needed to remove him from office. The Tenure of Office Act would later be found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States in dicta.
Bill Clinton, Democrat, was impeached on December 19, 1998, by the House of Representatives on articles charging perjury (specifically, lying to a federal grand jury) by a 228206 vote and obstruction of justice by a 221212 vote. The House rejected other articles: one was a count of perjury in a civil deposition in Paula Jones' sexual harassment lawsuit against Clinton (by a 205229 vote), the second accused Clinton of abuse of power (by a 148285 vote). President Clinton was acquitted by the Senate. The votes to remove him from office fell short of the necessary two-thirds: 4555 on obstruction of justice and 5050 on perjury.
Impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon were referred to the full House of Representatives for consideration and ended with his resignation.
In 1876, cabinet officer William W. Belknap (former Secretary of War), resigned before his trial and was later acquitted. Allegedly, most of those who voted to acquit him believed that his resignation had removed their jurisdiction.[citation needed]
One Senator, William Blount, in 1797. He was expelled by the Senate, which declined to try the impeachment. This established the precedent that Members of Congress are not subject to impeachment, as they can be removed by action of the House of which they are members without impeachment or any other action being necessary.
One Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, Samuel Chase, impeached in 1804, was acquitted by the Senate.
Fourteen other federal judges. Eight of these have been convicted by the Senate and removed,[40][41] including Alcee Hastings, who was impeached and convicted in 1989 for taking over $150,000 in bribe money in exchange for sentencing leniency. The Senate did not bar Hastings from holding future office, and Hastings won election to the House of Representatives in Florida. Hastings' name was mentioned as a possible Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence but was passed over by House Speaker-designate Nancy Pelosi, presumably because of his previous impeachment and removal.[42]
There have been unsuccessful attempts to initiate impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)Just like the snap of a finger.
Well, sorry (and thankfully) it doesn't work that way.
Get a grip.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Iggo
(47,489 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,162 posts)With each passing day it becomes a little more clear that in order to remove the orange pustule we are going to have to do it the old fashioned way at the ballot box.
Doesnt look like Mueller is riding to the rescue, folks. Time to dig in and get to work if we want him gone.
napi21
(45,806 posts)There is also a possibility that the Prez may not be found guilty of anything that can be proven in court! At this point in time, no one of us know.
Although I'm as curious as everyone else, I'm willing to wait. It's time that will enable Mueller to get the proof he needs.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)There seems to be an inbuilt certainty that the investigation is going to nail Trump personally, but Im not as convinced as most. The possibilities are manifold.