Am i thinking right about Grand Jury sealed indictments?

[bluestarone]

Are they sealed for the purpose(one of the purposes) of STOPPING the possible PARDONS from RUMP?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. They are sealed to be sure the perp doesn't abscond, destroy evidence or influence witnesses.

[Lefta Dissenter]

3. Thanks!

Thanks for that helpful response. It’s nice to be able to learn from our friends here at DU.

[bluestarone]

5. TY for this. Not sure how to say this BUT here goes.

Let's say Mueller Indicted RUMP jr. (one of the sealed indictments) NOW Rump CANNOT pardon if he doesn't know right? Could this be Muellers way of stopping possible pardons?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Pardons can be granted at any time, so, no.

[bluestarone]

8. Would Rump know if there was a sealed indictment

For RUMP jr.? (if there was one i mean)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. The thing is, indictments can't be sealed indefinitely.

It's just a temporary measure to protect the investigation until the target is arrested. The federal rule governing sealed indictments says: "The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment’s existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons." In other words, nobody knows about the indictment other than necessary court personnel.

[bluestarone]

13. TKS

It is confusing!

[theboss]

19. It's not really.

If you are indicting a 50 person sex trafficking ring in multiple federal districts and some of these people have foreign passports, the actual indictments can come down at different time over a period of weeks. If Person A get indicted, his 49 associates are all going to flee the country, go underground, conspiring to create a defense, maybe start killing the links between them and the crime.

So you ask the judge to seal it until all the indictments are ready. A court will give you reasonable time in such a case.

Then you arrest everyone at the same time when they are unsealed.

The odds are that sealed indictments you are looking at have nothing to do with Mueller.

[marylandblue]

11. Only Mueller's office and the grand jury would know.

[bluestarone]

14. TY

Do you not think Mueller is concerned about pardons?

[theboss]

17. Maybe but what can he do?

A sealed indictment is pretty much the same thing as no indictment. It's simply sealed at the court's discretion for any number of reasons.

We also don't know if any of the sealed indictments are from Mueller. Generally speaking, these are used in very largescale drug busts to stop people from fleeing. You want everyone arrested together.

[marylandblue]

9. No point to that.

For strategic reasons, Mueller clearly has been holding back a lot information related to the central crimes. He may have indictments written up and ready to go. But getting grand jury approval can be quick, so all he has to do is hold on to them until ready, then in a few days indict and arrest.

[theboss]

12. Mueller can't stop pardons

If Don Jr is indicted, Trump can pardon him before the arraignment and the whole thing goes away - along with Don Jr's 5th Amendment rights which does present some complications.

[bluestarone]

15. Right BUT

My point is would RUMP know? Just trying to u8nderstand how it goes.

[theboss]

16. Know what? Yes, as soon as Don Jr is formally indicted Don Sr knows

Mueller isn't going to drag him to the Tower and hide him away for two years.

[bluestarone]

18. DON sr. knows?

All the sealed indictments? I didn't think anyone but Court and Mueller knew this.

[theboss]

20. There are always hundred of sealed indictments in the system.

My guess is that none of them have anything to do with Trump or his associates.

I fully expect to be terribly disappointed by Mueller in the end.

[bluestarone]

22. I disagree!!

I'm sure there is lots for RUMP and associates when this ends!!

[theboss]

23. We'll see, I guess

I don't think that's how Mueller operates though.

[bluestarone]

24. I have faith in Mueller!!

[theboss]

25. And I still believe in Fitzmas

Remember how that turned out?

[theboss]

2. You would be thinking wrong

People who don't understand how courts work often stumble upon this sealed indictment thing and assume that there is some super-secret massive conspiracy about to be uncovered.

I call those people QAnon believers.

We fell for this same nonsense with Leopold, Karl Rove, and 24 business hours.

[marylandblue]

4. Sealing an indictment doesn't stop a pardon and courts discourage long-term sealing

Once indicted, the suspect should be arrested as soon as possible. Assange may have a sealed indictment because he is outside the country and has asylum, so can't be arrested or extradited. That's about it.

[bluestarone]

7. TY see post 5.

Just trying to understand how it all works.

[theboss]

21. Let me try this again: Odds are that the sealed indictments you are seeing are unrelated to Trump

You wouldn't know what they are. Neither does anyone else but the court.

If you think something magical is about to happen, prepare to be disappointed.