I no longer care if the Senate votes for impeachment

[vlyons]

although I do want the House to vote a bill of impeachment. Trump is so compromised and hated, ridiculed every night on late TV that he will never get a 2nd term. After the Mueller report and the House investigation bring out more facts and evidence of Trump and GOP collusion, not voting to impeach will be the death knell of every GOP senator's career. Some are so involved and implicated (ya hear that Mitch?) that they may well have to resign before there's even an impeachment vote.

One thing is for sure that the GOP is chin deep in a sewer of every form of corruption possible. It is my hope that post-Trump, there will be renaissance of talk about ethical behavior. We hear from the GOP a lot of bullshit about law 'n' order, but when have you ever heard one of them talk about the self discipline of ethical behavior? When have you ever heard one of them talk about basic human decency? When have you ever heard one of them talk about the corruption of greed? Like no time, right?

So going forward, I shall be listening for which Dev POTUS candidates say something beyond empty platitudes about honor, decency, integrity, and ethical behavior. Which candidates will have a campaign platform that includes strengthening campaign finance laws? Which candidates eschew campaign contributions from corporate bad actors, pirates, and environment degraders? I hope that they all talk about this. We shall see.

[pecosbob]

1. The proof is in the pudding (or the voting record in this case)

I believe it to be an issue of moral responsibility. The House has an obligation to impeach, regardless of the consequence. I do not believe for a minute that this will negatively impact Democratic turnout next year, but will energize GOTV efforts.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

2. K&R totally agree...

Could be the only reason that’s good about Individual #1 being where he is. It will take really strong candidates to refuse corporate corrupt money but that’s what must be done.

[Ponietz]

3. Kick it

[pecosbob]

4. In addition, the House has a moral obligation to investigate all the grifters and monkey-wrenchers

From Pruit and Zinke, to both of the DeVos siblings, to the Senators and Representatives in Putin's pocket. Failure to do so is to admit that we have two sets of laws in the nation...one for the rich and one for the poor.

[elocs]

16. The House does not need to impeach Trump right out of the gate,

but they can destroy him with a political death of a thousand cuts with enough investigations to bring him down. Then when they have built a strong case with lots of evidence, impeach him.

[empedocles]

5. While I empathize with the sense of, 'not care if Senate votes for impeachment', . . .

. . . imo, the case against trump needs to be as fully developed as possible. Important for making sure we get rid of trump, with broad support, that will better support efforts to root out as well as legislate against corruption, do full justice, etc.

[vlyons]

8. I did write that I wanted the House

to vote a BILL of impeachment

[populistdriven]

6. The crime was against We The People

The only possible way to make us whole is to reverse absolutely everything he did. The only way this is possible is with Democratic house, Senate, White house and 2+ supreme Court justices.

And that will never happen if he is impeached.

[stopbush]

7. The Senate does not "vote for impeachment."

The House impeaches the president. Think of it as a political indictment. Impeachment is the act of bringing charges in the House. That’s it, nothing more. Bill Clinton was impeached. He was then aquitted of the charges in the Senate.

The Senate holds a TRIAL to determine whether the articles of impeachment are valid. Each article is voted on separately. Each article must garner 67 guilty votes to remove the president. A single article garnering 67 votes of guilty is enough to remove the president.

Words matter. Please don’t make up terms like “voting for impeachment” in the Senate. That’s like saying that the Senate “votes to indict the president.”

[brooklynite]

9. "The Senate holds a trial"

And if they fail to vote to convict him, effectively he's been acquitted. That's worse than not impeaching him in the first place.

[Joe941]

22. Yup. Ignorance runs deep...

[vlyons]

10. by voting guilty or non-guilty

the Senate does in effect vote to impeach and remove from office. You missed my point entirely

[stopbush]

13. No. You are misusing the word impeachment.

Impeachment is the act of bringing charges. That’s it. It has no other meaning beyond that, no matter what you think. The Senate votes to remove from office. They do not vote to impeach. Whether the president is found guilty or not guilty they were still impeached by the House.

You are missing the point that words have meanings, especially a word as specific as impeachment.

I’ll make it clear thru an example: if Mueller indicts tRump and tRump must face those charges in a criminal court, that court will decide his guilt or innocence. What they will NOT do is “in effect indict” the president if he is found guilty. The indictment has nothing to do with the finding of guilt or innocence. Same thing with impeachment.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. I got your point and it's a good one.

[Baltimike]

11. Oh, with subpeona power, I want the Dems to do a LOT more damage, but the corporate press

is trying to save him. He will survive impeachment bc of Moscow Mitch and the Senate, and that will just bolster his low iq base.

Fuck that.

[drmeow]

12. I want criminal charges against his family

and cronies. Trump's children (except Tiffany - she's exempt) and their spouses are young enough to be able to continue to do serious damage and commit lots more crime. I want them stopped. I want them stripped of their ill-gotten gains. I do not think than any of them can be rehabilitated so punishment is the only way to protect people from them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Bingo!!

[elocs]

14. "although I do want the House to vote a bill of impeachment"

And if they don't impeach Trump, what will you do then?

[vlyons]

17. vote for the Dem candidates in the 2020 election, of course

Living in Texas, I especially want to see Cornyn defeated

[Takket]

15. I agree......

We need Mueller's report to lay out all the crimes, and the report is clearly going to contain a MULTITUDE of them.

At that point, the House will impeach and all the Dems Senators will vote to convict in the trial.

If ignoring the mountain of evidence to not risk pissing off their base compels the GOP senators to vote to acquit, they are certainly welcome to roll the dice and send that message out to the electorate. It won't work out well for them. The GOP will lose independents and 2020 will be one of the greatest electoral bloodbaths of all time.

[vlyons]

21. exactly!

whether GOP senators vote for or against is now irrelevant. Trump is toast already, and soon to be burnt toast. The crimes of Trump and his cronies and enablers will be laid out for all to see and hear. So go ahead GOP senators, vote to acquit and watch your party go the way of the Whig party.

[woofless]

18. Charlie Pierce make a good case

for going forward with impeachment.

https://link.esquire.com/view/5bef5d642ddf9c2d0d43d18f96hpm.1hy/1d604444

[Buckeyeblue]

19. If the house impeached it will be interesting how the Republicans will justify not convicting

Depending on what else comes out, they may not have as choice. 45 will only resign if he gets something out of it. Which will make it harder for them. But who cares.

[Demsrule86]

20. If Trump is impeached, he may very well win a second term...don't impeach unless he can be

convicted and tossed out of office.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

23. impeach or lose a lot of Democratic voters

There is enough known already to bring articles of impeachment, it's just not enough for about half the country. By the time the House finishes investigating, it will be enough for all but deplorables. That will be the proper time to impeach.

It will then be an obvious dereliction of duty if the GOP Senate refuses to convict. Regardless of what the Senate might or might not do, if the Democratic House refuses to impeach when it's the obvious course to most of the country, Democrats will be seen to have failed to do their duty.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. Yup, impeachment of the Traitor-in-Chief should be the very first act of Congress.

He makes Nixon look like an amateur crook.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

29. it can't be the first act

The House has promised more pressing things first -- such as voting rights and voter suppression.

[brooklynite]

28. I spoke to about 50 House candidates this past cycle...

None of them said that voters wanted them to focus on investigating/Impeaching Trump

[Hermit-The-Prog]

31. please re-read what i posted

Most voters don't follow these events as closely as folks do here. As the news gets filled with more and more scandals, investigations and indictments, more people will be catching up. The House will be investigating multiple fronts and that, also, will make the news. When Mueller finishes, it's going to hit the news.

At some point, if he doesn't resign, impeachment will be the focus of voters. The disapproval rating in polls will change to impeachment rating. Watergate is the closest thing I can remember, and it wasn't as dirty, as widespread, nor international like this. The general public is going to get madder before 2020.

[Meowmee]

24. Maybe if he is

Threatened with impeachment/ charges etc he will resign, I doubt it though. I’d like to see him and P ousted one way or another and Nancy is prez😹

[KWR65]

25. As long as the economy is good he has a very good chance at being reelected.

[LBM20]

32. No! We don't go down that rabbit hole until all evidence is in & the public strongly supports it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I am ninety percent of the way there.

The only occurrences that could persuade me to oppose impeachment is if Mueller and the SDNY exonerate Individual #1.

[Trumpocalypse]

34. CNN Poll: Fewer support impeaching Trump

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/politics/trump-impeachment/index.html

[LiberalLovinLug]

35. disgusting that so many back not impeaching

And more so, that its trending that way.
But hopefully that would change once more details of his crimes comes out. Although I have a hard time trying to find reasons why anyone would not think there is more than enough now.

[Trumpocalypse]

36. I have a hard time trying to find reasons why anyone voted for Trump.

But not everyone thinks alike.