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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat 20 (or more) GOP Senators will vote to remove Trump from office?
In an impeachment, 67 votes are required in the Senate to find Trump guilty and remove him from office. Democrat only hold 47 seats in the new Senate. So who are the 20 GOP Senators that will break with their party and vote to convict Trump? Please provide a list of specific names. Thanks.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Omelette du fromage Savoyard.
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)I know of none. But some think that 20 will have a 'come to Jesus' moment and vote to convict. I'm wonder who those 20 are.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There are a lot more shoes to drop, and hearings will bring that to light.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)have the integrity to do the right thing?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)It will simply require fear.
Fear of the consequences of NOT doing the right thing.
Fear of the devil. Fear for their immortal souls.
Yes there will always be some for whom recognizing the practical necessity of their own moral redemption is like getting your dog to like Van Gogh. You cant stop your dog from eating the crotch out of your underpants, but you still can make em feel guilty for doing it.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Itll train you not to leave your dirty underwear lying around, right quick.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Yes fear will play a role. Fear of pissing off the Trump base if they turn against him.
alwaysinasnit
(5,072 posts)writing on the wall and who have a smidgen of integrity left. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who might fit that description.
susanna
(5,231 posts)The OP's original question reminded me of an SNL skit about a 'TBD' Republican who could change things...from back in early 2017(!).
https://www.thedailybeast.com/snl-trolls-spineless-republicans-who-wont-stand-up-to-trump-in-the-tbd-story
Scroll down a bit, the video is still there at last check (tonight).
This skit couldn't be truthier (props to Mr. Colbert).
alwaysinasnit
(5,072 posts)Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)But impeachment is an investigation that cannot be obstructed or pardoned away. Regardless of the outcome in the senate, the house is going to have to do this.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)that will help re-elect Trump in 2020. What is more important, making the point or getting Trump out of office as soon as possible?
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)Unlike the justice department the administration has zero power to obstruct an impeachment. Assume the Mueller investigation is terminated. What then?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)In the Senate it is useless. Worse Trump will be able to claim he was acquitted by the Senate.
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)dansolo
(5,376 posts)The House can have hearings, and they can release their findings.
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)Trump can invoke executive privilege and take his chances with the court. He would have a much weaker case with an impeachment investigation. See the Nixon case.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)end an impeachment trial before it starts.
And Nixon lost when he claimed executive privilege.
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)is immune to obstruction from the senate or the executive branch.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)But no need to go for a trial in the Senate.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Because of being impeached and acquitted? This is different from the Bill Clinton case.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Hell claim the acquittal proves he was innocent and the victim of a partisan witch-hunt.
treestar
(82,383 posts)for just giving in and allowing this criminal to continue in office because they don't have "the balls" and all that other stuff?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Better that they hold hearings for the next year to lay out all the evidence to the American people and then let them decide at the ballot box.
Journeyman
(15,038 posts)If the perception of Trump support is seen as detrimental to their prospects, they'll lean towards solutions that may save their sorry asses. If he's not seen as a detriment, and vulnerable, gaining Republican support look difficult at best.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)and most are in deep red states.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/politics/2020-senate/?utm_term=.8a9aacac8771
Journeyman
(15,038 posts)Trump's venality will not be confined by time or space.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Especially if Trump wins re-election in 20.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)At a minimum, Dems take Senate.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Better to spend the next year having hears to lay out the case against Trump but then leave it to the people in 20.
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Very legal and very cool.
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 8, 2018, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Did you mean current Senators?? If so, then ZERO.
Polybius
(15,476 posts)n/t
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)No clue why I did that, but I fixed it. Thanks.
Polybius
(15,476 posts)How about Lincoln Chafee? He was another fairly liberal Republican who would vote to convict. In the end, he switched Parties.
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)His father, John Chafee, was also really moderate and was actually seen as a champion of environmental issues.
dlk
(11,576 posts)In their book, the rule of law is for the other guy--party comes first, last and always for them.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)tell them to. Right now, most of those who voted for trump would vote for him today, even if they are ticked at trump for not deporting millions, not bombing Iran and NK, failing to completely abolish ACA, etc.
FakeNoose
(32,748 posts)They won't want to be on the record for having voted against Trump, but they will want him out of office. By now the majority of the GOP Senators have to know the scope of this, they know he's guilty and shouldn't be in the White House. They really don't want an impeachment hearing because it would drag so many others into it, like GOP Senators and Congressmen too. Trump's resignation would be SO convenient - it lets them off the hook.
Same thing happened in 1974 with Nixon. The GOP Senators, plus whoever was left on his staff, convinced Nixon he wouldn't survive the impeachment vote. By 1974 the GOP was the minority party and that made a big difference too.
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Murkowski
Collins
Romney
Kyl
Rubio
Graham
Sasse
Alexander
Paul
Gardener
That's all I got-halfway there.
Flame away if you must
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts),,,and the public reaction to it. Then there are wild card variables. Signs of a coming recession could cost Trump some popularity and put him on thinner ice etc.
As I recall, Joni has plenty of eexperience castrating pigs. Maybe she could use a new pair of earrings.
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)No Ernst-no Fing way
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Can you provide any proof to support that those you listed will turn on Trump?
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Quixote1818
(28,968 posts)party over country.
Liberty Belle
(9,535 posts)if he is not also impeached and removed?
Sgent
(5,857 posts)Russian collusion -- not just campaign finance violations, I think you can add Wicker (MS) to that list.
strongermessage
(284 posts)Others have said this over and over, but for the House NOT to initiate the proceedings against an illegitimate president who committed criminal actions would be a failure to perform their collective elected duty, regardless of who controls the Senate.
lindysalsagal
(20,730 posts)That's why it's valuable, even if the other grifters side with him. The gop goes on the record allowing criminals to personally profit from taking money from Russian oligarchs, and the coverage might actually get through to the faus snooze losers.
Do it. Do it. Do it. Wait for Mueller and then do it.
Xolodno
(6,401 posts)...if you are impeached for lying about getting a blow job.
0rganism
(23,970 posts)i'd bet plenty that a majority of the GOP power players think Trump is pigshit wearing a gold robe, he's not really in their club, and he's making them all look bad while he pisses in the well. some may have racial constituencies they've been cultivating for years that this medieval dickweed alienated in months. they've played along so far, and they've got some payback for it, but when push comes to shove i don't expect them to have his back. the paper-thin qualities of their loyalty and reliability will be on proud display if the evidence convinces enough of their brainwashed voters of what has been obvious to the rest of us for the last two years.
i think the only thing that would keep them loyal is if they were equally complicit and hoping for a Trump/Pence pardon. there's probably a dozen or so GOP senators to whom this applies. the rest? they'll flipflop fast enough if their chances of re-election drop.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)So far I havent seen any sign of that. Even if Mueller has a tape of Trump and Putin discussing the whole plan for the 16 election, most Republicans will just deny it.
0rganism
(23,970 posts)i just think they're smart enough (barely) to know which side their bread is buttered on, and which side got burnt to charcoal in the toaster.
i think, initially, the denials will fly fast and furious. but as the hearings drag on and the evidence becomes increasingly irrefutable and public perceptions swing firmly into position, they'll fold like a cheap suit, they'll try to minimize damage. if that means throwing Hair Fuhrer under the bus, they'll do it, with less hesitation than many here suspect.
but the time must be right, we need a few months of truly sordid public hearings in the house for this to happen.
and when it does, as we realize the extent to which our nation has been thoroughly compromised at the highest levels, Americans will not be celebrating his removal so much as mourning the loss of the Cold War.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)But they still deny it. Lets not be naive about them or let wishful thinking cloud the reality of who they are.
0rganism
(23,970 posts)a fanatical, well-armed segment, to be sure, but a segment nonetheless. whatever grim physical changes we face in the coming decades, the GOP will not survive the coming political changes as-is. those who cannibalize the dreams of misguided constituents to rise to high ranks within their vampiric organizational hierarchy see this clearly, they're going to plan ahead for a time in the not-too-distant future when only a small minority of the minority who voted for Orange Julius Caesar remain willing to admit doing so.
reality is change. they too will change. when they have to. and not a second before.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)and are not going to vote to impeach Trump. That is the reality of the next 2 years.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)None. But none may come at a price. If Trump looks to be hopelessly damaged goods, they will tell him not to run again - or else they vote.
I keep seeing rumors that the GOP PTB are preparing a "Run Nikki Haley" scenario.
roamer65
(36,747 posts)They will get primaried and lose due to the MAGAt infestation of the Repuke criminal enterprise.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)separate occasions.
treestar
(82,383 posts)on the impeachment and the trial, they might just have to vote to convict. If the evidence is strong, there will be pressure on them.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)that 20 GOP Senators will put truth, integrity and the country before their party. Never going to happen.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's a bit much to assume how they would vote after they hear all the evidence and after they know how their constituents feel about it. Republicans are awful people, but at least they want to be re-elected.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanaugh would not.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanagh would not. And for the 21 who are up for re-election in 2020, most are in deep red states where they will be more hurt by voting against Trump.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)Just such damning evidence made public by televised hearings in the Democratic controlled House that the Republican base shrinks further and any hope of getting re-elected requires independent voters.
The GOP Senators will act out of fear, just like the last two years.
If the president is impeached, the Senators wont have to worry about Trump backing primary challengers, but they will face an even more pissed off electorate in the general election if the evidence is there and they refuse to act.
BTW, I do expect that there is a smocking gun and Mueller already knows where it is.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)McTurtle will hold a trial. I'm not convinced he would.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)He doesnt have to or could shut it down before it can start.
treestar
(82,383 posts)He'd have to hold out as a single person with most of the country against him. He'd have a constitutional duty to hold the trial. That would not be as easy as refusing to hold a hearing for a Supreme Court Justice. He could not claim that the next election is the only solution so easily. The Constitution does provide for the impeachment process.
DDySiegs
(253 posts)These more important questions are: After the new House is sworn sworn in in early January, (1) Will there be any R-members of the House who will vote for any of the actual articles that the democrats are likely to submit to the house for a vote? ; (2) How many such Rs might there be?: (3) Who might such Rs be?; and (4) What districts and states would they come from? With an informed and intelligent set of possible answers to these questions, the OP author's question will become much more interesting and informative to consider.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,365 posts)It will be a waste of time and effort, like the Republican House and Senate voting to repeal Obamacare (ACA) during the Obama administration. No way he gets removed.
And, if by some chance, he is removed, then in 2020 we go up against an incumbent, and presumably more competent, President Pence.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Dont understand why some are putting so.much faith in republicans doing the right thing.
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)See post my post 87: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211528215#post87
The impeachment process is critical to both getting the truth out and to exercising our constitutional duties to defend our nation against tyrants, traitors and those looking to corrupt democracy. It does not matter if the Senate votes to remove or not - that is on them and will be hung on them like a scarlet letter. Politics is well down the list of concerns at this point (though I think a detailed and exhaustive impeachment trial will pay massive benefits to Democrats).
shraby
(21,946 posts)Retrograde
(10,156 posts)Lindsey Graham and Rand Paul will get in front of cameras and deplore Trump's actions, but in the end all will vote as McConnell tells them to.
I'm changing my mind on impeachment: i'm coming to the conclusion that the House should start proceedings if only to get the evidence of Trump's crimes out in the open. And to dare the GOP senators to acquit him despite a mountain of evidence.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)If GOP Senators had any sense of integrity or honesty or even shame, Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanaugh would not.
Luciferous
(6,085 posts)hueymahl
(2,510 posts)Congress has a moral, constitutional duty to begin an investigation and impeachment proceedings. Individual 1's presidency has been an affront to our democratic system, appears to be run like a crime syndicate and violates our constitution, likely on a daily basis (see the emoluments clause).
If we fail to impeach, we will have failed ourselves, our country, our ancestors and our children.
Arguing that we should not do it just because the Republican led senate won't vote to remove is . . . words fail me.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Investigate yes, but a trial in the Senate is a useless exercise.
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)And it is not useless at all. It is a necessary part of our democracy under the constitution.
Personally, I think it also will be a huge benefit politically, to make the Republicans own their defense of this most corrupt, criminal president. But whether it is a political benefit or political harm, to not do it is shirking our duty under the constitution and telling future corrupt politicians that it is ok to do it.
I REALLY don't understand the point of your post. If it is to merely point out removal is highly unlikely, yeah, you are right. So what. But if it is to argue we should not even try? I hope that is not your point, because I find that to be dangerous, almost evil in its disregard for what is best for society and our country.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Impeachment is a useless exercise. Trump will never be convicted in Senate. Acquittal in the Senate hands Trump a victory going in to the 2020 election. He can claim that he was the innocent victim of a partisan witch-hunt.
Better to have hearings for the next year to lay out the case against Trump to the public but then to let the people decide in 20.
The goal is to get Trump out of office and elect a Democratic President, not to give Trump an issue he can run for re-election on.
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)Impeachment is not a useless exercise, it is a critical one that is necessary to protect our democracy.
As far as the political angle, I have a lot more confidence than you do about its benefits to Democrats, both at the presidential level and at the Senate level. Make those bastards own Trump.
Of course, a lot of this depends on the final Mueller report. I'm not advocating for impeachment unless there is a pretty iron-clad case. Or if they shut down the investigation before the report is issued. In a perverse way, this may be a great outcome. The house can hold hearings throughout next year and impeach in 2020. Toss that football to the Senate late in the summer and watch the carnage.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)if there is no chance of getting 67 . It just hands Trump a victory going in to the election.
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)I don't think it helps him politically. Quite the opposite, if we talk about it for two years but never do anything about it, that is a victory for him. A well documented case of criminality presented in impeachment articles after months of hearings? Followed by the Republicans voting to ignore the evidence and not remove him? Don't see how that is not a positive for the Democrats.
Regardless of the politics, if the evidence supports articles of impeachment, we must do it. It is our duty to the country.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)It will give credibility to his claim the that it was a partisan witch-hunt and fire up his base. And if done so close to the election it will make Dems look like they are trying to pre-empt the will of the people.
A well documented case can still be made via House investigations and hearings but no need to take the useless step of impeachment.
Our duty is to get Trump out of office as quickly as possible not to engage in a useless exercise that will hand him a victory going in to the election.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)That assumes facts not in evidence. You are probably basing this on Clintons impeachment, but he had the support of the public going in. That one actually was a witch hunt.
Trump has been denying everything about the investigation and his numbers are tanking. Hes now near 60% disapproval, and thats likely to rise a lot more. For him to point to a Senate not convicting him after impeachment would only enrage the public.
The Mueller report will be entirely separate from Congressional investigations and presumably provide a basis for impeachment; it does not exist yet. We dont know all the crimes that will be uncovered.
Muellers authority to prosecute includes any member of Congress. As just one example, we know that the Republican National Committee conspired to launder Russian money through the NRA into Republican campaigns. Anyone who did so knowingly is in trouble. Fewer Republicans left standing means a lower bar, and possibly even Democratic control of the Senate.
So its too early to say a) we wont have the votes to convict next year, even though that is true today; and b) failure to convict will guarantee a Trump victory in 2020. The public will know a LOT more in 2020 than we know today.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)"For him to point to a Senate not convicting him after impeachment would only enrage the public."
No it will only enrage people on the left. We should not be so naïve to think they everyone will agree with us looking at the same facts. If that were true no one would have voted for him in 16.
So its too early to say a) we wont have the votes to convict next year, even though that is true today; and b) failure to convict will guarantee a Trump victory in 2020. The public will know a LOT more in 2020 than we know today.
True things can change but I'm addressing those who want the Dems to vote for impeachment as soon as they take over in January.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)so we can see the totality of the criminal enterprises, then judge.
As to public opinion of a failure to convict, if it enrages the left and the middle, thats enough for us to win.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)The middle can go either way.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)But we cant assume that everyone will react the same way we will. If that were so Trump never wouldve been elected in the first place.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)But we still cant assume that anyone other than ourselves will react the same.
Qutzupalotl
(14,327 posts)PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)There are 22 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020. That will give you a good start on who will turn on Trump once his crimes are presented in public.
Ponietz
(3,006 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Ponietz
(3,006 posts)Even infected rats want to live, and I believe the next election cycle will make our 18 Blue Tsunami look like a ripple. But only if we throw down now with em.
No more wait and see about smash and grab. People are dying. The spirit that animates the Declaration of Independence animates our Party, and it is this spiritThe Resistancethat points the way forward.
I have a real can-do sense about all this. It seems to me that core DOJ, FBI, intelligence officials, even the military, have our backs. They want to know whether we can do this without ALL the embarrassing and compromising national secrets disclosed. I am not sure how long that will last. I believe we must go on offense, knowing the justice and urgency of our cause. If not, they will have had two further years to ensure that we never cast a meaningful vote again.
Sure, get the report first. In the meantime, lets put those rats in a pressure cooker. Make them understand we will rain hellfire on their heads unless they take the path of least resistance.
Thank you for considering my reply.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)But there ways to keep the pressure on without going for impeachment.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)If they're going to vote to acquit Trump, get them on the record with those votes.
Let them try to defend those votes to the voters in their states.
Even if Trump doesn't get removed, make the GOPers have an uncomfortable vote.
Think Susan Collins can survive in Maine if she votes to acquit Trump? I'd like to find out.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)where a vote against Trump will do them more damage. Better to have hearings but then leave it up to the people in 20.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Trump has changed the calculus.
Many of those states are more purple than they used to be.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)and without 19 votes impeachment is a useless exercise.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Please provide a list of specific names. Thanks."
What is the relevant point of asking for prophecy? Thanks.
On Edit: Oh, I get it... you think because prophecy is fallacious, you've made a relevant and insightful point, despite that point itself being predicated itself on fallacy: post-hoc-ergo-prompter-hoc.
hueymahl
(2,510 posts)Love the "On Edit"
Well done.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)there will never be 20 GOP votes in the Senate to convict Trump so impeachment is a useless exercise that will hand Trump a victory going in to the 2020 election.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)Rubio, Paul, Graham, Collins, Cruz, Ernst, Hatch, Kennedy, Sasse... that list will also bring others along
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)for this list? Especially Graham whos had his lips implanted on Trumps butt recently.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Really depends on what state they are from and if they are up for re-election in 2020.
orangecrush
(19,617 posts)doc03
(35,367 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Plus Im not too sure about Tester either.
aeromanKC
(3,327 posts)All we know so far is the tip of the iceberg. Once all the evidence against Trump is uncovered, the GOP will have no other choice but to throw Trump under the bus.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Unfortunately, we dont live in a perfect world: https://www.mediaite.com/online/orrin-hatch-reacts-to-trumps-suspected-campaign-finance-crimes-i-dont-care/
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)more from Mueller, more from SDNY, more from the Daniels suit, more from the Emoluments suit, and a lot more from public testimony before various House committees next year. None of it will be good for Team Trump.
If the economy does enter a downturn or recession, you will start to see Republicans defecting. Who? I have no idea. I'm guessing the ones in potentially tough races - Cory Gardner in CO; Tillis in NC, the guy in GA, Susan Collins (maybe), maybe John Kyl since he is going to retire?
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Impeachment hinges on the Mueller report. I do believe Republicans will vote to impeach and convict under certain circumstances. The bar has been set by just about everyone when it comes to the vehicle(the Mueller report). That is unless an absolute bombshell comes out.