General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTHANK YOU BERNIE SANDERS for speaking the blatant truth when so many won't
this one needs to be blasted from the hilltops! Couldn't have said it better myself! I love my Senator!
"Trump's Pathetic Lies" by Bernie Sanders
it is also on Facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/679000955817299
BLAST IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!
democrank
(11,096 posts)Thanks, Bernie.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Trump Falsely Claims Hes Saving Medicare and Social Security, Which He Says Democrats Are Killing
President Trump has accused Democrats of trying to raid, rob or hurt Medicare and Social Security, while suggesting he has made both programs stronger. Neither claim is true.
First, not only has Mr. Trump failed to strengthen Medicare and Social Security, the financial outlook for both trusts has largely worsened. Thats at least partly the result of Mr. Trumps tax law that is collecting fewer taxes from Americans and, in turn, investing less money into each program.
In June, the government projected that Medicare funds would be depleted by 2026, three years earlier than estimated in 2017. The report noted that less money will flow into the fund because of low wages and lower taxes.
The 2017 tax law also repealed the individual mandate that was required under the Affordable Care Act. That has led to Medicare needing to pay hospitals more money to reimburse costs of health care for a growing number of uninsured people.
Another government report, also released in June, projected that the Social Securitys fund for old-age benefits will run out in 2034. That is one year earlier than estimated in 2017, though the fund has enough money to pay for reduced Social Security benefits for 75 years.
According to that report, the fund for retirees will suffer reduced income because of both the tax law and the Trump administrations move to rescind the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. (The Social Securitys disability fund, however, gained three years of solvency.)
Second, there is no evidence that Democrats are proposing to cut Social Security, and Mr. Trump is distorting their positions on Medicare.
In its 2016 platform, the Democratic Party vowed to protect and expand Social Security. Legislation introduced by Democrats in the House and Senate has proposed to increase benefits not raid, destroy or hurt the fund, as Mr. Trump claimed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/us/politics/fact-check-trump-medicare-social-security-.html
Response to Hortensis (Reply #34)
InAbLuEsTaTe This message was self-deleted by its author.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Brava Hortensis.
Truth.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)President Trump has shown an uncanny ability to project issues onto his perceived foes ascribing to them his own troublesome actions, especially when he tries to deflect bad news. Thats exactly what he did at a political rally in Montana Thursday night amidst a firestorm of White House controversies, unleashing a whopper about Americans earned benefits:
[The Democrats] are going to hurt your Social Security so badly, and they are killing you on Medicare. I am going to protect your Social Security. A few days before the Montana rally, President Trump told reporters, The Democrats wants to destroy Medicare. And we will save it.
These are classic examples of Trumpian projection because the exact opposite of what the president said is true. Far from protecting Social Security and Medicare, President Trump and Republicans in Congress have been actively working to undermine them. In fact, GOP Congressional leaders promised to reform (which really means cut) Social Security and Medicare to help pay for trillions of dollars in Trump tax cuts benefiting the wealthy and big corporations. ...
The majority party is already hard at work on those cuts. Republicans have released a plan that would raise the Social Security retirement age to 70 and impose stingier cost-of-living adjustments meaning massive benefit cuts for Americas seniors. The presidents 2019 budget slashes Social Security Disability (SSDI) benefits by a staggering $64 billion over ten years. His budget director once disingenuously claimed that SSDI is not part of Social Security even though the words Social Security are in its name.
The president and his partys efforts to cut Medicare are just as glaring. House Republicans propose to axe $537 billion over the next decade from the program that provides health coverage to nearly 60 million older and disabled Americans. And since when does saving Medicare mean privatizing it? The 2019 GOP budget proposals would convert Medicare into a voucher program which would make it harder for seniors to choose their own doctors, and eventually end traditional Medicare. (Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich famously gloated that traditional Medicare would wither on the vine if privatized).
Saving Medicare certainly does not mean compromising the programs solvency but thats exactly what the president and Republicans have tried to do. The Affordable Care Act had extended Medicares solvency, but the Republicans inexhaustible efforts to destroy Obamacare have had the opposite effect. According to the 2018 Medicare Trustees report, Medicare has lost three years of solvency since President Trump took office.
The presidents claim that Democrats will destroy Social Security and kill Medicare is patently absurd. Although they are currently in the Congressional minority, Democrats have committed themselves not only to protecting these programs for future generations but expanding them, as well.
During the 115th Congress, Democrats have introduced no fewer than seven bills to preserve and boost Social Security. These include Rep. John Larsons Social Security 2100 Act, which would keep the system solvent for the rest of the century while modestly expanding benefits and Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) like-minded Social Security Expansion Act.
Other Democratic bills would link cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs) to a more generous inflation index specially geared to the elderly known as the CPI-E Rep. John Garamendi by (D-Calif.), which Rep. Larsons bill also includes; offer Social Security beneficiaries a one-time emergency benefit payment equal to a 3.9 percent raise by Rep. Rick Nolan, (D-Minn.); and repeal a law that allows earned benefits to be garnished by the federal government by Sen. Ron Wyden, (D-Ore).
On the Medicare side, the minority party has been no less vigilant. Democrats defended the Affordable Care Act which strengthened Medicare against repeated attempts to repeal it and the Trump administrations efforts at sabotage. The party champions a policy of allowing Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices directly with pharmaceutical companies which could save the program billions of dollars every year. Bills introduced by Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.) and Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) would empower the Department of Health and Human Services to do just that.
But those are only two of the positive pro-Medicare measures percolating on Capitol Hill. Senator Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii) has introduced legislation protecting Medicare from benefit cuts by making it procedurally more difficult to increase the Medicare eligibility age and privatize the program. Bills from Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Calif.) and Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.) would together add much-needed vision, hearing and dental coverage to Medicare Senators Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Bob Casey (D-Penn.) along with Reps. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) and Lloyd Doggett (D-Tex.) have sponsored legislation that would permit the importation of drugs from Canada, reducing Medicares costs.
These are only a handful of more than ten Democratic bills to strengthen Medicare and help the seniors who rely on it. Unfortunately, none of their proposed improvements has made it to the floor of either house of Congress under Republican control. That may change after Novembers elections.
Of course, these efforts to improve earned benefits come as no surprise to advocates and policy analysts. Democrats enacted these legacy programs in 1935 (Social Security) and 1965 (Medicare) and have worked tirelessly against formidable opposition to strengthen and expand both programs. The presidents claims simply dont make sense.
There is not one shred of evidence that Democrats are attempting to destroy Social Security and Medicare. By the same token, Trumps suggestion that he and his party are trying to save these programs can only be described as fake news. President Trump can project as much as he wants to, but it is obvious who truly supports Americans earned benefits and who is working nonstop to undermine them.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/405809-trump-is-wrong-dems-are-fighting-to-save-medicare-and-social-security
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)It can never be assumed that "the big lie" is too outrageous to ever be believed. When it is not strongly countered is when some people start to think "there must be some truth in it" if they can keep repeating it without being totally refuted. What Sanders is doing here is both effective and essential .
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for that reason. This is a national emergency.
George II
(67,782 posts)... are talking about this and other important issues, TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, every chance they get.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)We are all a part of a joint effort to do so, and Bernie Sanders is an (not the only) important part of that "we". I applaud all who forcefully counter the lies of this administration. More attention should be paid to the content of this video (in terms of issue framing effectiveness) than on whether the OP was overly enthusiastic about the role Sanders plays in this combined effort. Likewise for the efforts of other members of Congress who confront Trump.
samnsara
(17,622 posts)..and are always speaking out against him.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)They'll go after the disabled first. Easy target Seniors next, could be a challenge, but many seniors are brain dead trumpers. I'm not sure what will be done with people who lose their only source of income, but I'm sure it won't be pretty.
maga
Lucky Luciano
(11,257 posts)Mariana
(14,857 posts)of retirement benefits. Cuts will take effect in the future, only affecting young people. This is how they'll retain the loyalty of the brain-dead Trumpers you mention. Most of them won't be bothered a bit if their children and grandchildren are harmed, as long as they get theirs.
mountain grammy
(26,623 posts)But I think all bets are off as the deficit and debt spiral out of control. One thing for sure, the rich won't pay.
enid602
(8,620 posts)But cutting benefits of boomers is where the money is. Theyll cut boomers. The recent tax cut to the very rich is proof. They cant reduce tax receipts by so much and continue current funding.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)The Republicans know perfectly well that most of their votes come from older people. They'd like to keep it that way.
SkyDancer
(561 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ap-fact-check-has-trump-made-medicare-and-social-security-stronger
diva77
(7,643 posts)Wingnut radio does the same thing -- saying the opposite of what is true; it's almost comical how contorted their "logic" has become in order to justify the talking points (LIES) they want to convey.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)Keep fighting him at every turn.
lark
(23,105 posts)Pisses me off when asses like Rick Scott put out commercials saying Democrats will reduce your Medicare but I will protect it.
LIAR
I scream at my tv that his company got fined hundreds of millions of dollars for cheating Medicare patients while he was still president! Also Paul Ryan's budgets have contained cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and SS every single year and were only not passed because of unified Democratic opposition. Dems need to run on healthcare and Social Security - it's critical!!
edited to remove bolding that went awry
dameatball
(7,398 posts)lark
(23,105 posts)he said he had no knowledge of this, that he was CEO and didn't set billing policies/practices. He had also sold the company before the trial and the rich judge let the rich person who ripped off Medicare & Medicare patients to the tune of $700,000,000. He absolutely should still be in jail, but this is not a fair world.
AZ8theist
(5,470 posts)At his rallies that believe him saying it's the Democrats wanting to kill Social Security???
The stupid, it burns....
Thank you Senator Sanders. Unfortunately, you'll never see that video on the Repuke Propaganda Network.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)for Bernie.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Here are some just-for-examples since there are far too many to post:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/08/oh-12-special-election-the-gops-new-midterm-message-pelosi-wants-to-cut-medicare.html
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/18/16741730/gop-agenda-medicare-social-security
A few new articles are linked earlier in this thread.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)Oh wait -- maybe no other Independent is saying this!
Jesus Christ in a Trailer Hitch, people. I know you love the old curmudgeon, but he did not invent the legislation in the Democratic Party playbook, and he is not the only person calling out Trump on his lies.
DavidDvorkin
(19,479 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Every Democratic Party member has called out the Trumpster for his lies on SS, Medicare/Medicaid, Healthcare, you name it.
Certainly glad Senator Sanders is singing from the same songbook. But the lyrics are certainly not new.
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)He is not an old curmudgeon nor is he claiming to be the only one calling out Trump. We don't need your negativity smothering a positive message.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Magoo48
(4,712 posts)Hell, its simply fantastic to live in a state where ones senator will speak up. This was about someones senator, right? Not about every other democrat.
George II
(67,782 posts)....(NY) have spoken up, many times. Both MA Senators have spoken up, many times.
If I were to do a search, I'd probably find that all 47 Democratic Senators and the other Independent Senator have spoken up, AND even several republican Senators.
It's fantastic to live in a state where both Senators will speak up.
PS - how it that a "gaslight"?
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)For a certain element on DU, it's basically an ironclad rule: Anything remotely favorable about Bernie Sanders must immediately be pissed on.
Say, did you know that Bernie isn't a Democrat?
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)SkyDancer
(561 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)MuseRider
(34,111 posts)he won't endorse his son? WTF kind of a father is he?
Saw Levi Sanders on CNN the other day.
Bernie refuses to endorse him. What I heard is Levi supports all that dad does. Why won't BS endorse his own son? Weird.
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)why anyone cares? I am sure they have talked about it and decided for one reason or the other that this was the best way to go. I was rolling my eyes and adding in jest to the "Bernie is not a Democrat" and all those constant and idiotic disruptions not actually questioning why he did not endorse. I figure that does not matter one tiny bit, just as much as the rest of the constant cries matter, not one tiny bit.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Levi Sanders chose to run in the primary in a district where he doesn't live.
So if Bernie endorses him, it proves Bernie is evil, because his nepotism is leading him to support a carpetbagger. But if Bernie doesn't endorse him, it proves Bernie is evil, because he's a bad father.
Hulk no like Bernie! HULK SMASH!!!!
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)All these carefully written and worded, often times almost tomes with links to all sorts of horrors, are like waving your arm around to remove a bothering fly. Bernie is going to Bernie and thank god for Bernie being Bernie. There are too many people who appreciate him and/or support him for all the waving arms on DU to matter. He is part of the whole and trying to keep it from tipping all the way over into RW territory. He is not alone he is just willing to go out there and talk about it and it sure annoys a lot of people on DU. Not so much elsewhere and that makes it easy to just let these people go. Does not matter. Their opinions certainly do matter, they are not to be dismissed as they are as much a part of the Democrats as any of us but the angry and petulant cries when Bernie eats a hot dog or ties his shoe are pretty funny to read.
I try really hard not to engage anymore but when someone thinks I made a comment like one of the "Bernie Sanders is a horror and NOT a Democrat" group I have to correct that.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)have been speaking out about Trump's plans to destroy SS and MC -- for as long as Trump himself has been a threat.
Also that the MSM have been on this all along.
What Bernie says is good and it matters. And hopefully he'll reach some who unaccountably don't know what's happening.
But you really need to understand that he's hardly the only one trying to wake America to this grave danger. Let's wish him even more success "out there," along with all the others.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)You write, "But you really need to understand that [Bernie]'s hardly the only one trying to wake America to this grave danger."
OK, thanks for explaining that. (Truth be told, I already understood it, but A for effort.)
I don't know if you're right that all the Democrats in Congress have been speaking out about this, but certainly many of them have. They haven't all been true-blue; IIRC, some of them expressed willingness to consider chained CPI, a covert way to cut Social Security benefits. I don't know how many of them have supported raising or eliminating the earnings cap, an important subject that Bernie mentions in the video. Overall, though, enough of them have been vocal enough that stuff like chained CPI is probably political poison, although Trump may well get away with weakening Social Security indirectly by closing many local offices.
Now here's what you really need to understand: No one has said that Bernie is the only one. He took the trouble to prepare an effective video, so garybeck posted it. Where Bernie's "only one" status comes into play is that, among all the Democrats and all the Independents who align themselves with Democrats, there's only one who gets such incessant bashing on DU. Someone could do a laudatory OP like this about any of the others, and it wouldn't draw this (predictable) barrage of negativity.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,913 posts)MuseRider
(34,111 posts)I just accidentally erased a wonderful reply to you......sigh.
I am sure someone, sometime, somewhere said that Bernie was the only one and was incorrect. Sometimes he is the only one. Mostly I do not recall much of that except from those with the smilies who think they are actually doing something productive with their nastiness and smilies. THEY are the people who mostly say that or ask why you think he is the only one when nobody actually said that, unless he was.
Someone makes a Bernie post then gets accused of saying he is the only one with this added so we know exactly how ridiculous we really are, absolutely beyond taking seriously and the gang comes by for a look and the history is made. These people who do this are really beneath all the rest of the posters here who have the intelligence and courtesy to formulate a real reply and discuss. Usually I just ignore them and think how small they really look and move on.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,174 posts)Its always the same few loud Bernie bashers too. You'd think the admins could deal with these usurpers by now. Its so tiring having to wade through these dividers posts in every Sanders OP.
And even if they can't argue with anything Sanders has said or done, as this example, they insist its Sanders supporters that are.....loving him a little too much?
I swear this place is like a daycare center sometimes. Us adults have to come in and rebuke these children that insist on picking on the 'outsider' kid whenever he tries to do something good or say something good.....because....he's just trying to get attention, to be popular. Is it envy? Is it holding old grudges? Or some other childish reason? But they have to make cruel comments about him whenever they can. And then use ROTFL emoticons to dig in their attempted ridicule. And lord help you if you are one of the kids that actually LIKES him and wants to be his friend. Because if you are HIS friend, they you can't be theirs!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)a liar, and said all of the things Sanders has concerning that tax bill.
The OP's intentions are very clear to anyone who has been on DU for a while.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and rejection. There are plenty of decent Sanders supporters, but strife just comes with some of the subgroups who've gravitated to him. I do try to be understanding and try to empathize as much as I can with the difficulties of any who may come here.
You can't expect his social conservative faction, for instance, to just support the economic programs they want without taking a swipe at liberals and liberal Democrats (that's me! ).
Then there are his other populists whose reason for existence is hostility against "the Democratic establishment" (by definition everyone who thinks we're rather wonderful even if we have been around for over 225 years and fully intend to keep on doing our thing, so that's me too).
The misogynistic white males among the former probably should be mentioned on their own because I'm female (those shouldn't still resent me now that I no longer take a job they'd want, but I'm still female, so here I be also). And of course his righteous zealots will always be with us under whatever label they're trying out (yeah, I'm a nonbeliever, burn me, babies, burn me!).
I often think it must be hard to be them. And I am totally serious about that.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)To some it seems more important than pissing on repukes. I find it very odd, myself.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Bernie:
"And I think what Trump was able to do was pick up on the failures of the Democratic Party that did not talk about the fact that hard working decent people saw their jobs going to Mexico or China, or people cannot afford to send their kids to college or afford health care or afford housing that they desperately need."
"It wasn't that Donald Trump won the election, it was that the Democratic Party lost."
"It's not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I come from."
"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last fifteen years or so has been a failure."
"Over the last 30 or 40 years the Democratic Party has transformed itself from the party of the working class ... to a party of significantly controlled by a liberal elite which has moved very far away from the needs of ... working families in this country."
"The Democratic Party has been dominated by wealthy campaign contributors. They gotta open the doors to people who work with their hands, people who take showers at the end of the day, not the beginning."
What is the purpose of saying these things before the primaries when Democrats might have a chance to gain back at least a little power? I find it very odd, myself.
shanny
(6,709 posts)If it is ignored. We didn't lose 1000 state legislators, 2/3 of the governorships, the House, the Senate and the WH since 2008 for no reason.
JI7
(89,251 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)While we were losing all those other elections. Clearly.
JI7
(89,251 posts)Vermont has a REpublican Governor . Sanders hasn't done much to change that in his own state.
shanny
(6,709 posts)JI7
(89,251 posts)from someone with a lack of accomplishments of their own.
SkyDancer
(561 posts)For speaking the truth.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)For more than four decades they've built a network of grassroots organizations and think tanks that formulate and promote conservative ideas, a long term investment that's paying off. Built their own media of talk radio and Fox News and have promoted the careers of conservatives within the mainstream media. Built ideological alliances between industry, government and regulatory agencies. They've suppressed voter turnout in minority communities and with gerrymandering. From 1991 tp 1994, Republicans received 62 percent of the tobacco industry's political contributions, from 1995 to 2000, they received 82 percent. Agribusiness gave 56 percent to Republicans and by 2002 it was 72 percent. Other industries follow this trend. The idea that Democrats are ones in corporate pockets is silly.
Grover Norquist in 2003: "We are trying to change the tones in state capitals and turn them toward nastiness and partisanship."
It has nothing to do with Democrats. Trying to make it about "Heh, the Democrats have no message and stand for nothing" and "Heh, the Democrats have abandoned FDR policies and are liberal elites who have ignored the working and middle classes" is absurd.
shanny
(6,709 posts)Meantime Democrats have been doing what, exactly, about all that?
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Those horrible meanie liberal elites!!1111 Why didn't they stop (fill in the blank). THANKS, OBAMA.
JI7
(89,251 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)So you deflect. Buh-bye
betsuni
(25,537 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)free college?
luvtheGWN
(1,336 posts)and then discovered that they couldn't afford it because of too low a population?
Several years ago California had single-payer on the ballot. My American cousin, whose winter home was in Calif., contacted all his Canadian relatives for information on our healthcare system, and worked very hard to try to get the proposition passed (can't remember the number).
I think California should try it again. All it takes is for one very large state to show that it works, for the rest to (eventually) fall in line. I doubt anyone thinks of California as a "dreaded socialist state" the way many think of Canada, UK, Australia etc.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)of explaining what happened in his state instead of blaming Democrats.
The Florida governor candidate, Gillum, was asked about this on Cuomos CNN show last week or so, and even he was able to answer that it was impossible financially unless there was a consortium of states pooled together. There is no reason why Bernie cant be more honest about the failure in his state because others face the same problems. Its a shame a new candidate like Gillum gets stuck with the hard part of answering hard questions about it while others get a pass.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)He will find it is actually diverse in more ways than one. We send Dana Rohrabacher, Darrell Issa, and Duncan Hunter to Congress, for gods' sake, not just Ted Lieu, Eric Swallwell, and the quieter Salud Carbajal and Julia Brownley.
The population of California surpasses that of Canada, and it is a very complicated place.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I have not seen threads thanking so eagerly "corporatist" "establishment" Democrat for doing the same damn thing.
We've been DUers long enough to know the intent of the OP.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"For a certain element on DU, it's basically an ironclad rule: Anything remotely critical of a sacred cow must immediately be questioned as anti-progressive."
Say, did you know that six of one equals half a dozen of the other?
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Bernie:
"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last fifteen years or so has been a failure."
"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."
"Over the last thirty or forty years the Democratic Party has transformed itself from the party of the working class ... to a party significantly controlled by a liberal elite which has moved very far away from the needs of ... working families in this country."
"The Democratic Party has been dominated by wealthy campaign contributors. They gotta open the door to people who work with their hands, people who take showers at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day."
"And I think what Trump was able to do was pick up on the failures of the Democratic Party that did not talk about the fact that hard working decent people saw their jobs going to Mexico or China, or people cannot afford to send their kids to college or afford child care or afford housing that they desperately need."
"And what we're trying to do is reform the Democratic Party, make it a party of working people, make it a party of young people."
"It wasn't that Donald Trump won the election, it was that the Democratic Party lost the election. We need a Democratic Party that is not a liberal elite but of the working class of this country, we need a party that is a grassroots party, where candidates are talking to working people, not spending their time raising money for the wealthy and powerful."
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)One prescription for success is to think especially hard about past failures. This would entail an open and honest discussion about what went wrong, with different points of view being welcomed. The goal is to arrive at a good understanding about what the problems were, as the first step toward fixing them.
Apparently the other prescription for success is to say that any criticism constitutes disloyalty. That dismissal is augmented by focusing on the minor point of party identification among the different members of the Democratic caucus in the Senate.
I'm on board with the first approach.
sammythecat
(3,568 posts)First thing I did after opening this thread was look at the responses to see if they showed up. They did, of course. They're in every discussion having anything at all to do with Bernie Sanders. Same people all the time, every time. As certain as death and taxes, just not as pleasant or welcome.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)Some people love it, you know they do. My husband does -- Bernie reminds him of the alta cacas of his boyhood in New York City. (Loosely translated, "old farts." Loosely translated, but exactly quoted.)
So it's Bernie's well-practised schtick -- embrace it; Bernie has.
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)I shall instead embrace the ignore function.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)To do that lets you hear only half of the discussion on a Democratic board.
SkyDancer
(561 posts)Ignore works wonders and does away with the negativity thus improving ones experience here on this Democratic message board.
If we wanted to hear "Bernie is the debil!!!!111" we'd look at at conservative websites. Hard pass.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)If anything, Bernie should be educating people on Democrats history with Social Security. To say or imply he is the only one speaking out on Trumps lies is just wrong and thats why the pushback.
The conservatives like Bernie watch the current news about how Russia helped Trump, Bernie and Stein attack our Democratic nominee.
nini
(16,672 posts)So they haven't heard it from anyone else.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)campaign 20 years ago. And hes just one Democrat who has been saying this for decades. Actually, Bernie shouldnt have waited so long.
Thanks. Democrats are such slackers.
still_one
(92,216 posts)not only calling trump out on his lies, but warning people what would happen
Hekate
(90,708 posts)She did this out loud and in plain English (albeit with intelligent syntax and grammar) as well as in writing. Hard to see how anybody missed that.
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)I can Kick and Recommend posts about Clinton and Sanders. And other progressives, too!
Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #78)
betsuni This message was self-deleted by its author.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)HERE!
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)There were too many to dig up now two years after the fact. Anyone who followed the campaign saw them.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)But I was assured many many many times here on DU that the only message of her campaign was "I'm not Trump" because Trump was so terrible (NEVER mentioning the economy and jobs or health care or inequality or the environment or education or foreign policy) and all her ads were negative ads about Trump.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)I'll K&R them, too. The more the better.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)But you knew that
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)I'll K&R them, especially if they tear Trump a new one. There is more than enough real estate on his posterior for everyone to get their kicks in.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)have a progressive viewpoint and call out Trump?
Clinton (or any other progressive politician) could even make some if she chooses. that would be great. No need to throw shade on Sanders for doing it.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)How is this new?
Me.
(35,454 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)still_one
(92,216 posts)and she was loud and clear.
She was out there on the stump all the time doing it.
The media of course had its own obsession, and focused on the events it thought would bring in more viewers.
Of course there were the debates, but you knew that
http://time.com/4355797/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-foreign-policy-speech-transcript/
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/25/12647810/hillary-clinton-speech-alt-right
http://fortune.com/2016/08/26/hillary-clinton-speech-alt-right/
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-foreign-policy-speech/index.html
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....through to Election Day? If you did you wouldn't need to have someone provide them to you.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)I have a video. I have a video.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211121576#post98
Putin Puppet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
George II
(67,782 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Must be why the professor hasn't responded.
Dayum. She was magnificent there!
betsuni
(25,537 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)People will just keep kicking goals....
Link to tweet
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/top-dem-says-president-a-known-liar-cnntv/index.html
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/01/14/calling-trump-a-racist-and-liar-frederica-wilson-says-shell-boycott-his-speech/
https://www.liberaladvocate.com/2018/01/12/durbin-president-trump-you-lied-liar/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/91217917-157.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/mar/14/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-violence-cnn-town-hall-video
Gothmog
(145,291 posts)garybeck
(9,942 posts)the difference is that most of the others that are willing to really call it out completely are talk show hosts, not Senators.
if you are saying there are other senators who are making videos like this, let's see them.
regardless my point for posting this was not to debate who else calls out Trump on his lies. it was just that the video is good and should be shared.
peace
Hekate
(90,708 posts)...last year for some reason we had a coterie of DUers whinging daily that "no Democrats" were challenging Trump's lies and deeds. I started a long thread naming names and encouraged others to add to it -- basically, the entire Democratic caucus knows Trump for what he is and says so, even if not every one of them grabs a mic and gets in front of a camera daily.
So posting an OP with Caps Lock and Extra Exclamation Points saying how refreshing it is that Bernie is speaking out when no one else will is kind of a head-scratcher.
As a couple of posters have mentioned already in this thread: your OP and its implications are nothing new here. We don't "hate" your hero, Bernie Sanders (I) of Vermont, but it is very telling that he has spent his entire political career finding fault with the Democratic Party specifically and the GOP only incidentally. It's his schtick, like the finger wagging and yelling. He's not always wrong -- but by no means is he always right, either, and being scolded all the time gets tedious. It is not "hatred" or "bashing" to say so at Democratic Underground.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)I missed that in the OP. Granted, I didn't check for edits...
TYY
ZeroSomeBrains
(638 posts)Republicans have never supported social security, Medicare or medicaid. Republicans lie to the hills about these earned benefit programs when they call them entitlements. The real entitlements are all the wasteful military spending, tax cuts on oil and gas and all of 45's golf course spending on our dime.
Response to ZeroSomeBrains (Reply #16)
Post removed
George II
(67,782 posts)ZeroSomeBrains
(638 posts)I was proud of my vote for bernie and hillary. You didn't respond to what I said with a critique. There are people who enjoy listening to bernie and listening to president obama. Can't you be more constructive? You seem to relish in the realm of insults.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ZeroSomeBrains
(638 posts)I implored bernie to tell those republicans to keep them from cutting earned benefit programs. Would you rather he join republicans in their next cut social security bill from paul ryan? Do you attack angus king and want him to join the republicans? Do you want bernie to be in the senate when we hopefully gain the senate and keep 45 from having more supeeme court justices appointed?
Is he wrong on some things? Yes. His gun control policy doesn't go nearly far enough and some of his votes in this matter are not acceptable. Bernie should've endorsed hillary much earlier in the process. I wish Hillary clinton or another member of the democratic caucus were president right now more than anything. I stayed up all night on election night thinking of all the horrors 45 would bring. We can all be part of the democratic big tent. I am going to vote democratic up and down the ballot like I always have in November. Let's all do what we can to get over the bitterness of the primary election in 2016. We will all be better if we do.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)SkyDancer
(561 posts)Hekate
(90,708 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)You are a hoot.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Ding!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You may not know any, but the rest of us do.
Buhbye.
Cha
(297,275 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)24. What is the point of your trolling here?
Unnecessary personal attack. You just got here and are attacking long term members. Wow.
still_one
(92,216 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Interesting.
still_one
(92,216 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Sounds familiar, lol.
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Vaguely familiar. Will await the links.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)it went to Fox News...
No way! Not Faux Snooze.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Response to sheshe2 (Reply #45)
G_j This message was self-deleted by its author.
Attack you? Why are you coming after me here? I never attacked anyone, G_j. I responded to a new member that called a long time member of DU a troll.
THEY SAID
24. What is the point of your trolling here?
I was proud of my vote for bernie and hillary. You didn't respond to what I said with a critique. There are people who enjoy listening to bernie and listening to president obama. Can't you be more constructive? You seem to relish in the realm of insults.
I said
45. Who are you to call a member of Democratic Undergroud a troll?
.
ZeroSomeBrains
24. What is the point of your trolling here?
Can't you be more constructive? You seem to relish in the realm of insults.
.
Unnecessary personal attack. You just got here and are attacking long term members. Wow.
Then You said
130. Yea well
attack me then, I agree with them
this OP had a topic, but some people cant resist lowering the level of discussion. There is a name for that.
Well, I was not responding to the Op. I responded to a new person that called a long time DUer a troll. You are not okay with that are you Gj?
George II
(67,782 posts)ZeroSomeBrains
(638 posts)I know I'm new here but we all have important perspectives. I love all my fellow brothers and sisters here and in our party. It's important we learn from the mistakes of not voting for gore and hillary. It's also ok to push within the party for the most that we can within obvious limits. Let's all keep at it.
George II
(67,782 posts)sheshe2
(83,785 posts)?
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Gee whiz I am dreaming my life away
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Don't you know that all Bernie supporters are misogynistic white males? Don't you read DU?
Seriously, I assume the point of your post is that you snarkily consider anyone who supports Bernie to be a "cultist" or the like (a term I've seen used on DU). I personally voted for Bernie in the primary without ever saying that he was the most qualified candidate in the history of the country, so maybe your GIF is of people supporting a different candidate....
SkyDancer
(561 posts)Meanwhile....
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)results, though. They just show a commitment to disinformation. There is actual info out there about our base.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)these bastards are doing, and failing to do so far. Thank you, LA Times for your excellent ongoing coverage of this subject.
As you can see, media coverage of these subjects is very broad and ongoing. So far, both programs are in far better shape than Republicans like to claim, but damage is being done.
The publication of the annual trustees reports for Social Security and Medicare has become the occasion for some of the most consistently uninformed reporting on government programs of the year. The release of both reports Tuesday was no exception. Within moments of their appearance, the Associated Press was tweeting, and later reported, that Medicare was projected to become insolvent in 2026, three years earlier than was projected last year.
Actually, no: The Medicare report projected that its hospital insurance trust fund, which applies to Medicare Part A, will be depleted in 2026. But since even then the program would be able to keep paying out more than 90% of scheduled benefits, its not anything like insolvent. As economist Dean Baker observes, at most it would be correct to say Medicare will face a shortfall in 2026, not insolvency. The 2018 Trustees Report shows that the current program is fully affordable. Indeed, the United States can fully afford an expanded Social Security.
The more glaring oversight in Tuesdays reporting on both programs is that the trustees made crystal clear that policies of congressional Republicans and the Trump White House have damaged the financial prospects of both programs. Theres a bitter irony in that, since the GOP continually claims that its imperative to make both programs healthier to serve the 62 million people dependent on Social Security and 58.4 million covered by Medicare; the truth is that the Republicans are doing their best to cut the legs out from under both.
Here are the highlights from the reports.
First, Social Security is stable, and in some respects, improving fiscally. Its trustees expect its combined retirement and disability trust funds to become depleted in 2034, the same as was projected last year. Even then, the program would be able to continue paying out 77% of currently scheduled benefits. Since by then the scheduled benefit would be about 20% higher than it is today, the result would be close to a wash. If Congress wants to avert the cutback, nothings stopping it from raising the payroll tax, say by eliminating the wage cap on taxes, currently set at $128,400.
The 2018 Trustees Report shows that the current program is fully affordable, said Nancy Altman, a veteran Social Security advocate who is president of the group Social Security Works. Indeed, the United States can fully afford an expanded Social Security. The trustees note that the fiscal condition of Social Security disability has markedly improved in the last year. Its trust fund is now expected to last until 2032, a four-year improvement over last years projection of depletion in 2028. The trustees attribute that improvement to a steady decline in disability caseload and new applications dating back to 2010. That gives the lie to a recurrent Republican meme that disability is little more than a haven for layabouts and malingerers.
The trustees, meanwhile, give details on how congressional and White House initiatives have harmed Social Security. First, they mention that Trumps rescission of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the program that allowed children brought to the United States illegally by their parents to stay and become productive members of society, will reduce the number of workers paying into the program. That will reduce payroll receipts slightly but significantly in the near term; because those people wont be receiving benefits decades from now, the system costs will be lower, but the impact of Trumps decision still will be negative.
The tax cuts enacted by Republicans and signed into law by Trump in December also will have a negative effect on Social Security in the near term, chiefly by reducing the programs income from the taxation of benefits. As a whole, the law has a significant net negative effect on the financial status of the OASDI program [that is, the retirement and disability components together] over the short-range projection period and a negligible net positive effect over the long-range projection period, the trustees said.
GOP policies are projected to have a more significant effect on Medicare, according to its trustees report. A key factor is the elimination of the Affordable Care Acts individual mandate, which was effectively canceled as of 2019 ... when the tax cut bill reduced ...
The Republican-controlled Congress also eliminated the Independent Payment Advisory Board, which had been established by the Affordable Care Act to develop and submit proposals aimed at extending the solvency of Medicare, slowing Medicare cost growth, and improving the quality of care delivered to Medicare beneficiaries. The elimination leaves no mechanism in place to achieve those ends, the trustees reported. Finally, the tax cuts will also reduce income for Medicare, as they do for Social Security.
Social Security and Medicare have proved remarkably resilient in the face of decades of efforts by conservatives to undermine them. The reports issued Tuesday document that theyre still in reasonably good health but that those attacks are beginning to have their effect. If Republicans really are committed to strengthening them for the future, as they claim, the time to stop attacking them is now.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-social-security-20180605-story.html
Hekate
(90,708 posts)...doing great work.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Imagine my shock when we moved to Georgia and the Atlanta Journal Constitution I'd subscribed to before we arrived was what we sat down to our first breakfast with. The greatest new understanding we got from it was of what a great paper we'd left behind, and how fond we were of it. My husband subscribes to the on-line version these days, can't be bothered with my NYT and WaPo.
hunter
(38,317 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)No one man can keep up on all the important issues, after all, and Senator Sanders is extremely busy.
We're not helpless. We can all read. We really shouldn't be waiting around for him to find time to bring us all up to date.
indeed!
sheshe2
(83,785 posts)bdamomma
(63,868 posts)they want it all for themselves stealing from us to pay for the rich tax cuts, they have to find that money somewhere they are stealing it from us. Bastards, they can choke on it. Entitlements my a$$, we should be in the streets, they are cowards anyway they would probably barricade themselves.
That's backwards socialism wouldn't you say??
bdamomma
(63,868 posts)thanks Bernie.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)on these programs is very appreciated by the way over 100 million voters who are very concerned. Here's yet another report, InA. There are too many to bring them all, of course, but I hope you'll be very reassured to know this is anything but an unreported issue.
Its time to set the record straight. Far from keeping his word, Trump and his administration have spent every day since taking power working to destroy Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
Here are 10 of the Trump administrations worst attacks on the American peoples Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid:
Trump nominated Congressman Mick Mulvaney to be the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) director. Mulvaney has a long history of working to destroy Social Security and Medicare. In 2011, he said, We have to end Medicare as we know it.
Every single Republican senator voted to confirm Mulvaney, while every Democrat voted against.
Trump nominated Tom Price to lead the Department of Health and Human Services, which oversees Medicare. Price has stated that We will not rest until we make certain that government-run health care [e.g., Medicare] is ended and decried the federal governments intrusion into medicine through Medicare.
Every single Republican senator voted to confirm Price, while every Democrat present voted against. After less than a year on the job, Price was forced to resign in disgrace, and Trump replaced him with Alex Azar, a former pharmaceutical executive who tripled the price of insulin.
As soon as Trump took office, the Republican Partys top priority was to take health care away from tens of millions of Americans. If Trumpcare had become law, it would have cut $880 billion from Medicaid, creating a disaster for seniors who rely on Medicaid for long-term care. It would also have created a Medicare time bomb by starving the program of essential funding.
Trumps 2018 budget proposal sought cuts of $800 billion to Medicaid and Social Security Disability Insurance over 10 years. When OMB Director Mulvaney was asked if these cuts would lead to fewer people receiving their earned Social Security disability benefits, he replied, I hope so.
Republicans passed a massive tax giveaway to billionaires and corporations, which they are now using as an excuse to demand cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
Nearly every House Republican voted for a so-called Balanced Budget Amendment, which would make it unconstitutional for Social Security to use its own $2.9 trillion trust fund to pay promised benefits. (Fortunately, the Amendment did not attain the two-thirds majority required for passage.)
The Trump administration floated a proposal to eliminate the payroll tax, which would have served as a Trojan horse to undermine Social Security.
Trump issued an executive order opening the door to the politicization of Administrative Law Judges, who are supposed to impartially resolve disputes between Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries and the people in government who run those programs.
The Trump administration announced plans to get rid of a rule that allowed nursing home residents and their families, in facilities that accept Medicare or Medicaid funding, the right to take those facilities to court for alleged neglect, abuse or sexual assault.
The Trump administration began allowing states to impose work requirements on Medicaid beneficiaries.
This article was produced by the Independent Media Institute.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/09/11/donald-trump-and-republicans-work-every-day-destroy-social-security-medicare-and
Hekate
(90,708 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)SkyDancer
(561 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)I've heard similar from dozens of Democrats for several years.
lapucelle
(18,268 posts)Democrats are proud to be the party that created Social Security, one of the nations most successful and effective programs. Without Social Security, nearly half of Americas seniors would be living in poverty. Social Security is more than just a retirement program. It also provides important life insurance to young survivors of deceased workers and provides disability insurance protection. We will fight every effort to cut, privatize, or weaken Social Security, including attempts to raise the retirement age, diminish benefits by cutting cost-of-living adjustments, or reducing earned benefits. Democrats will expand Social Security so that every American can retire with dignity and respect, including women who are widowed or took time out of the workforce to care for their children, aging parents, or ailing family members. The Democratic Party recognizes that the way Social Security cost-of- living adjustments are calculated may not always reflect the spending patterns of seniors, particularly the disproportionate amount they spend on health care expenses. We are committed to exploring alternatives that could better and more equitably serve seniors.
We will make sure Social Securitys guaranteed benefits continue for generations to come by asking those at the top to pay more, and will achieve this goal by taxing some of the income of people above $250,000. The Democratic Party is also committed to providing all necessary financial support for the Social Security Administration so that it can provide timely benefits and high-quality service for those it serves. Our plan contrasts starkly with Donald Trump. He has referred to Social Security as a Ponzi scheme and has called for privatizing it as well as increasing the retirement age.
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#social-security
George II
(67,782 posts)lapucelle
(18,268 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)wasted on those who, like Trump, refuse to know everything they don't want to, being as dishonest as required to maintain it. This OP dishonors Sanders' worthy actions by using them as cover for a denial delivery vehicle of everything the Democratic Party is doing to protect Social Security and Medicare.
We call Trump a liar, btw, and for sure he is, but Woodward's book, like the others, makes clear that no nonsense is too blatantly false for him to truly believe if he wants to. Back to Trump's response to the full-scale crisis of North Korea's first ICBM test...
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)and facts about Social Security. Trump is just one clown in the GOP show who has been lying about SS. Thats one of the things I loved about Al Gores SS lockbox campaign from almost 20 years ago now. He campaigned on protecting SS.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)This is NOTHING new from real Democrats. We have always known the GOP was after this and what they are doing. Anyone who didn't have their head up their ass could see it since it started way back under FDR.
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)why don't you post some of your favorite clips and quotes from all of the progressive politicians you like? I'd love to see them
betsuni
(25,537 posts)and began shifting Right. Bernie reintroduced New Deal policies that were considered radical a few years ago: health care for all, a higher minimum wage, making public colleges and universities free, and demanding the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. Thanks to Bernie these ideas are becoming mainstream, even though Democrats have to be dragged kicking and screaming to accept progressive ideas.
PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS.
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)ago under Bill Clinton and Al Gore. Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich and left with a surplus. Al Gores campaign was about protecting Social Security and with Clintons surplus, no telling what could have been done about infrastructure and green jobs for Gores global warming agenda. It was all right there for us. It was a trip watching someone completely ignore all those accomplishments.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)I don't understand it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Cha
(297,275 posts)trump out and many never said they "..would work with trump..", either.
I'm glad BS said that but don't be trying to give him sole credit.. it's Divisive.. and not true.
At least BS is not insulting the Democratic party this minute. Calling it "weak" "elite" "the party of the 1% and Not of working people..".
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)jalan48
(13,869 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Thanks for sharing this.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Everybody else is. Comedy shows are nothing but making fun of Trump's lies.
garybeck
(9,942 posts)true but
how many other Senators are speaking up like Bernie?
betsuni
(25,537 posts)Thank you Bernie for everything you do.
chwaliszewski
(1,514 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Cause this is all I have heard from all Democratic candidates.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Thanks for the thread garybeck.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)It is a dramatic presentation of the difference between Trumps lies versus the clarity if Truth.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Donald Trump wrongly says Social Security and Medicare are stronger
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/sep/06/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrongly-says-social-security-and-medi/
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)https://www.heraldnet.com/business/republican-plan-would-slash-medicare-social-security/
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When Democrats were speaking out on it right away.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)I feel more comforted knowing this thanks to your post.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)about SS and Medicare which is a passive smear.
No, Sanders is not the only one, or even the first one of many who have called this particular lie out that "Democrats want to "destroy your Social Security" and are "going to ruin your Medicare" in the Montana speech.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/us/politics/fact-check-trump-medicare-social-security-.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/12/anatomy-trump-rally-percent-claims-are-false-misleading-or-lacking-evidence/?utm_term=.1edce019e13b
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/raucous-trump-rally-filled-with-familiar-attacks-false-statements
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/405809-trump-is-wrong-dems-are-fighting-to-save-medicare-and-social-security
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/sep/06/donald-trump/donald-trump-wrongly-says-social-security-and-medi/
Nor is Sanders the first or only one of many who have called out Paul Ryan's statements from December on "entitlement reform" or stated the things that Sanders is saying about the GOP tax cuts for the wealthy:
This is part of the starve the beast value system that the Republicans have, Pelosi said on Dec. 21. They do not believe in governance, so any public role in the health and well-being of the American people is on their hit list.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/congress-s-divisions-between-parties-chambers-crimp-2018-agenda
Pelosi: GOP Tax Plan Is "Simply Theft," Unrepentant Greed Of "Permanent Plutocracy" Is A Moral Obscenity (From last December)
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/12/19/pelosi_gop_tax_plan_is_simply_theft_their_unrepentant_greed_is_a_moral_obscenity.html
https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/32818/
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/12/20/schumer_when_middle-class_see_their_taxes_go_up_theyll_know_republicans_are_to_blame.html
https://www.kaine.senate.gov/press-releases/kaine-statement-on-passage-of-republican-tax-bill
honest.abe
(8,678 posts)Give it up.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)The Bernie fluffers crack me up sometimes.
That's the "blatant truth," Adrahil.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Your imaginative coinage "Bernie fluffers" has inspired me to implement a sig line, which I usually haven't bothered with.
I admire Bernie Sanders. I don't mind being called one of the "Bernie fluffers" by the Bernie bashers. At this point, they're just preaching to the choir.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But why didn't Bernie ever release his taxes like he promised to do? Should he release his taxes if he runs in 2020?
I think the man has behaved badly, and if I get called a basher for calling out what I see as his bad behavior, so be it.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)If I were to ask "Why didn't Hillary _______? Should she _______?" the post would be removed. I speak from experience here.
And certainly any reference to "Hillary fluffers" would be gone in a flash, and rightly so.
As to specifics, my statement "I admire Bernie Sanders" is not the equivalent of "I consider Bernie Sanders to be perfect." I voted for him in the 2016 primary for the same reason that I voted for Hillary in the general election: There was no perfect candidate on the ballot (never has been), so I chose the fallible human being whom I thought best. I don't regret either vote.
Releasing tax returns is a plus but, given the external evidence of their personal histories and circumstances, Trump tax returns are clearly more important than Sanders tax returns or Clinton tax returns. Some of the anti-Semites among the Bernie-bashers apparently think that he's getting bribe money from the Israeli government or Jewish business interests. No sensible person believes that, however, and even if he is being paid off, he probably didn't report the bribes on his tax returns. My guess is that, if he runs in 2020, he'll release his tax returns. Nevertheless, it's not a deal-breaker for me. I voted for Clinton despite her opposition to single-payer health care, which was a much better candidate for being a deal-breaker.
Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)R B Garr
(16,954 posts)bribe money??
Has the idea of transparency changed for select politicians so that those accusing others of corruption are exempt from being transparent themselves?
Is Bernie against universal health care?? Your distortion about Clinton indicates you are willing to embrace polarizing falsehoods, so obviously these extremes indicate politicians can only be for or against ideations with no supporting context required.
icaria
(97 posts)I saw/heard this from Trump while watching a "plaid shirt guy" clip and have been wondering why there wasn't a big response to these lies (maybe I just missed it).
So it's great (!!) to hear a vigorous response to these horrible and damaging lies.
It is disappointing that the thread became a Bernie vs whatever thing. Divided==Conquered. The point is what Trump is doing and don't be surprised when you run into people who believe this stuff. Some people are actually going to vote for republicans because they believe they will protect social security and medicare. That's what's happening out there.
Response to garybeck (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed