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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums'Fahrenheit 11/9': Michael Moore Exposes Trump, The New York Times and Establishment Democrats
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fahrenheit-119-michael-moore-exposes-trump-the-new-york-times-and-establishment-democrats?ref=homeFahrenheit 11/9: Michael Moore Exposes Trump, The New York Times and Establishment Democrats
The new documentary, which premiered at TIFF, is a sprawling polemical collage thats less about Trump and more about how to build a progressive future.
Natalia Winkelman
09.07.18 4:41 AM ET
Michael Moores Fahrenheit 11/9 opens with the word Hillary. It ends in silence. The in-between includes Hitler and Rashida Tlaib, Michigan Governor Rick Snyder and West Virginia high school teachers, Bernie Sanders and The New York Times.
Its a surprise to report that a lot of the film, which had its world premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival last night, catches you by surprisenot only because of the deja vu didacticism of so many contemporary political docs, but also because, by now, we think we know Moores shtick. Even Trump seemed to have an inkling as to what he would look like under Moores microscope: Back in 1998, in the green room of The Roseanne Show, Trump allegedly praised Moores work before expressing his hope that Moore never make one on him.
More so than many of his previous films, Fahrenheit 11/9 is a sprawling collage of a polemic, careening from issue to issue with little regard for transitions. When segues do come, they spring out of Moores rascally voiceover, which canopies the film with his familiar brand of wit, fervor and infectious lefty idealism. Theres also a distinct sense of self-awareness to this one, along with what feel like deliberate measures to cut against pedagogy and moralizing. This feeling comes to a head in the movies final sequence, which hits so suddenly and unexpectedly youll be a little sore from the whiplash.
snip//
Yet overall, the documentary, in all its messy tangents, actually spends a minority of its time on Trump. Indeed, Moores best zingers and most penetrating indictments land on the Democratic Party, whom he implicates (along with dominant liberal news media) as part of an establishment system continually churning in place to maintain the status quo and impede forward movement. He even calls out Obama on a few occasions: for letting down the people of Flint, for accepting Goldman Sachs money, for deporting immigrants, for drone strikes. But best of all, Moore acknowledges and emphasizes that he himself is not totally free from that establishment either. The best thing my generation did was raise you all, he marvels to a Parkland teen in one scene. Her sharp reply: On the contrary: social media raised us.
Vagueness and clutter distract from the cogency of Moores points on several occasions, and the frenetic pace makes it constantly difficult to keep up. But by the end, hes stuffed so many tangled tangents in there that the documentarys impassioned spirit and impact as a whole outweigh the less convincing bits.
How the fuck did this happen? Moore demands in voiceover toward the beginning of the film, following a melodramatic election night montage. Its a question that he only partially gets around to addressing, but no matter. We know the real question hes striving to confront: What the fuck do we do now?
He might not have the answer, but he can introduce you to a few people who do.
johnp3907
(3,732 posts)Moore can shove his film up his ass.
Cha
(297,652 posts)not even much about trump? Should be called "Gaslight2".
Trueblue Texan
(2,440 posts)I get so damned ( boy am I holding back here!) sick of hearing about establishment Democrats and the Lefty media. Why do people on the Left join into the conspiracy against them? FOOLS! You cannot have everything you want. You must work toward the best you can do. You must work toward securing the tools you need to make progress. Get your asses back down to EARTH and your efforts will deliver better results! I love idealism but it doesn't get the work done. It only provides direction.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and only wonder if I should get my hair cut short?
Anyone doubt this is mainly meant to divert from little things like the many Trump crises foreign and domestic, treasonous behaviors in the WH and Republican caucuses, the Supreme Court crisis, the increasing numbers of Republicans prosecuted for corruption, and the blue wave?
RandiFan1290
(6,242 posts)Mike is doing a great job!!!
I can't wait to see this film!
Cha
(297,652 posts)BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)Sounds like another gem.
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)still_one
(92,394 posts)F**K you Michael Moore, you phony asshole. You were right out there during
2016 instead of motivating people to vote, undermining and demoralizing saying how the Democrats were going to lose, and no you are NOT FORGIVEN FOR 2000, or your speech along with Sarandon and others at Madison Square Garden telling your fans how a vote for Gore is a vote for bush.
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/15/us/the-2000-campaign-the-green-party-in-nader-supporters-math-gore-equals-bush.html
Then during the women's UNITY march after trump won, you tried to divide, but Ashley Judd was having none of your bullshit. IT WASN'T ABOUT YOU MICHAEL MOORE, that march was about WOMEN, and unity:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-womens-march-live-watch-ashley-judd-interrupt-michael-1485017688-htmlstory.html
You fooled me once a long time ago, but NEVER AGAIN
Cha
(297,652 posts)still_one. He ain't nothin' but a RF.
Now his new pos 11/9 is not so much about trump but dragging President Obama through the mud? That's just stupid.
The most important midterms of our lives are coming up and he's whining about the Democratic Party.. that is out there on the front lines for us.. And, winning! Too bad for Moore.. Great for America
Nance says it best..
a snip from her OP..
Remember when Obama was under investigation for obstructing justice and conspiring with the Russians? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama was proven to have lied to the American people an average of seven times a day? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama insulted our allies and praised people like Putin and Kin Jung-Un? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama stood on the world stage and declared that he would take the word of Vladimir Putin over the word of his own countrys intelligence community? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama directed his fixer lawyer to pay off a porn star in order to buy her silence just before an election? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama visited foreign countries and was met with tens of thousands of protesters? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama separated parents from their children at the border, and then lost those kids so that they might never see their parents again? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama tweeted mis-spelled, incoherent covfefe on a daily basis? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama refused to produce his tax returns? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama increased the national debt in order to give tax breaks to the wealthy, while screwing the middleclass? Yeah, me neither.
Remember when Obama had his name-branded merchandise manufactured in low-wage countries while promising to bring overseas jobs back to America? Yeah, me neither.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211105327
Cha
(297,652 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)lame54
(35,321 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Its about judgement and credibility. When you have poor judgment it calls into question your credibility. Moore got 2000 wrong, and he wasnt exactly enamored with Obama in 2008. So when youre on th wrong side or on the fence multiple times at key moments its fair to question. Doesnt make him a bad person, just an oaf.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)In 2004, Moore had styled himself as "the voice of the left," with the release of F911 and getting invited to the convention, etc
Then, in 2008, along comes Obama, who captivated the youth, and won the primary and the general without kissing Moore's ring.
Mike spent the next 8 years whining and trying his best to depress the vote. Everyone acts like he was so prescient in predicting a Trump win, but he also said McCain and Romney were headed to the WH. He simply got lucky with his demoralizing voice of doom act this once.
Moore's an egotist who's trying to make himself the center of attention.
And he's not that bright, either. He's already fallen for Richard Ojeda in WV, a fake populist who, just two years ago was endorsing Trump, demonizing immigrants and refugees and lying about Clinton and the EPA.
Moore presents him in the trailer as a voice of the working class left. The guy is far more likely to pull a Lieberman or a Traficant and ally with the GOP then ever consider being a Wellstone.
JI7
(89,264 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Particularly the not that bright part. Very accurate.
arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)still_one
(92,394 posts)before the midterms only proves the point
JI7
(89,264 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,291 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)the Susan Sarandons who only seek to divide us. I hope the film is a big flop. Pretty soon MM will be as welcome around here as Glenn Greenwald and Alex Jones.
betsuni
(25,614 posts)As he did in 2016 at the last minute, October 18th, when he did "Michael Moore in Trumpland" and admitted that voting for the Democrat was much better than the Republican. Too late. Can't figure out why he does this.
I am not entirely optimistic that people are smarter this time around. Some.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)<snip>
"According to the Washington Post, details of the feud between Michael Moore and Kathy have been leaking out since their march toward divorce hit the courts. Rumors of various disagreements, from career conflicts to when Michael actually left Kelly, were said to plague the unhappy couple.
But the source of real contention came with additions Kelly made on their Central Lake lake front home in Michigan. The McMansion type changes didnt sit well with the notoriously liberally crusading Michael Moore, who has fashioned a persona of being part of the 99 percent, not the evil money hoarding, mansion building 1 percenters.
The Detroit News reports that reaching the divorce settlement saved Michael Moore from having to go to trial which wouldve hung out all his finances, dirty laundry and lavish lifestyle for all to see. This wouldnt have jived with Moores chubby physique, ever-present baseball cap, guy next door look he portrays.
With nine properties in Michigan and New York and other holdings, Michael Moore and Kathy Glynn are said to be worth about $50 million dollars."
https://www.inquisitr.com/1367767/michael-moore-divorce-is-ugly-but-final-as-neighbors-dish-the-dirt/
...and some are stupid enough to fall for it.
babylonsister
(171,090 posts)much money he has or about his marital problems.
I hope to see the flick to make up my own mind.
mountain grammy
(26,648 posts)lame54
(35,321 posts)Not falling for anything
He can be rich and still care and still know his shit
Response to Scurrilous (Reply #10)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cha
(297,652 posts)a shite about those who do with the Sociopathic Monster rigged in by Russia.
Doesn't have much to say about trump but drags President Obama through the fucking mud?! The one who is out there encouraging us to GOTV and not Fucking whining about the Democratic Party.
Fuck Off Moore..
Link to tweet
still_one
(92,394 posts)to do with his making statements that have the potential to divide Democrats before a critical midterm election.
That is what is disturbing to me, and blaming it on his divorce doesn't cut it for me
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Putin and the GOP are no doubt happy that you are attacking the only party that can save America from Trump fascism, you mealy mouthed SOB!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)brettdale
(12,384 posts)To Tom Arnold to provide damaging intel on trump then.
JI7
(89,264 posts)JI7
(89,264 posts)<Moore continued: When the history is written of this era, this is how youll be remembered. He was the first black president. OK, not a bad accomplishment. But thats it. Thats it, Mr. Obama. A hundred years from now, (itll be noted that) he was the first black American that got elected president. And thats it eight years of your life and thats what people will remember.>
https://nypost.com/2014/09/11/michael-moore-calls-obama-a-huge-disappointment/
betsuni
(25,614 posts)So tired of this ignorance.
Cha
(297,652 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 8, 2018, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)
the drones, too.. said it "did some good..". Any fucking word from MM on BS' drone approval?
Gaslighters like Moore never take anything into account except their own demagogic agenda.
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)But I guess being elected the first black president beats being an uber wealthy fake man of the people layabout who puts down the caviar once every four years to tell us all were doing it wrong. Fuck you, Mike. As always.
Cha
(297,652 posts)he made 11/9 more about bullshit than the reality of trump the fucking Russian asset.
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)He likely wont have much to whine about after the mid terms, but we all know that unless we nominate the candidate he supported in the 2016 primary, he will piss all over whovever we nominate. Whoever it is he will find a problem. Some unforgivable transgression. You can practically set your watch to it.
And yeah he supported Hillary in the general, albeit half heartedly, I think its safe to say had the GOP not nominated an obvious lunatic in 2016 theres a good chance Moore would have been extolling Jill Steins virtues. see: 2000.
Cha
(297,652 posts)care that he's doing the goPutin's work for them..
Moore reduced his legacy to BullShit claiming all President Obama is good for is being "the first Black President".
I leave you with this..
Link to tweet
It only requires some basic intelligence and a smidgen of empathy to see what a great President Barack Obama was.
Cha
(297,652 posts)Moore is. Idiot.
Damn.. Thank you for that, JI7. I thought he was disgusting before I read that.
https://nypost.com/2014/09/11/michael-moore-calls-obama-a-huge-disappointment/
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)He made F911, a film that didn't swing the 2004 election as he'd hoped.
At least Obama managed to win 2008.
Cha
(297,652 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)Release it the day after the mid-terms, Mike. By the way, you suck for dissing President Obama and "establishment" Democrats. You are very badly out of touch, almost as bad as Susan Sarandon. You need to get out of your bubble and go talk to real voters of all stripes.
YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)Thanks to Moore and the both parties are the same coalition, we got W and Trump.
Yes, the Russians helped Trump but so did Moore and people like him. How many votes did the both parties are the same meme cost Hillary? More than enough to win the election.
W gave us the Iraq war; a destabilized Middle East, ISIS and an economic collapse that almost caused a depression.
Trump has already given us two years of chaos and Facism Lite, not to mention a bazillion right wing ideologue judges and an outrageous tax cut for the rich-and hes just getting started.
Moore does more harm than good and has for years.
Asshole asks How the fuck did this happen? His dogging of the Democratic Party has cost us a lot of close elections for years, thats how the fuck this happened.
People like him.screw the Democratic Party by depressing turnout and convincing lefties to vote for candidates who cant win for the sake of some ideological purity bullshit.
If you enjoy his work, fine, but Moore just as much our enemy as Trump is. He just acts like a friendly dog until he bites our hand again.
JHan
(10,173 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,879 posts)Why stop there Mr. Moore?
Establishment Oligarch Plutocrats Capitalist Blood Sucking Banksters. He's becoming a broken record.
Here's an idea - Shut up and let the Democratic Party activists do what you have been incapable of doing . . . Flip indietearepublican women.
MuseRider
(34,119 posts)Can't wait. Who says just because you have a D after your name you are perfect? Chances are I will agree with most of what he says. Love his films, his efforts and his heart to do all this. Oops, I forgot, he has gotten rich off this. Man oh man, maybe I should forget going..........ha ha. Go Michael, it is your film, your opinion and if some cannot take it they will try to destroy you. I don't think that is actually possible. Can't wait to see what it actually is that he says instead of excoriating him with preconcieved notions.
RandySF
(59,221 posts)RandySF
(59,221 posts)shanny
(6,709 posts)I remember when he was sounding the alarm bells about Rump long before the election. His hair was on fire, and he was trying to light up the rest of the left. I remember some here claiming he had gone to the dark side and wanted Rump to win...
Cha
(297,652 posts)OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)I think Moore has been characterized unfairly on DU. A lot of people bring up 2000 but don't point out how he recognized his mistake and in 2004 begged Ralph Nader not to run and take votes away from Kerry.
And, while I absolutely LOVE Pres O and think he is the best of my lifetime, I also can recognize that no person is perfect. I do remember a friend's husband that was deported under O and I felt it was unfair. We have to be able to reflect honestly.
As far as Moore as a film maker, I remember one of the last scenes in "Capitalism, a Love Story" (and btw - I do disagree with him on some things in the film), where he unearthed a clip of FDR dictating a second Bill of Rights. I cried at that scene. The Second Bill of Rights would have made such a difference in our Country had it been adopted. I wish our national dialogue included FDR's second Bill of Rights very prominently. It would be a guiding principle, an ethical and moral compass and would have changed the trajectory of our National conversation.
Nothing in Michael Moore's past leads me to think he is an enemy or someone to be scorned by the Dem Party. There are decisions and statements we may disagree and a shitload of stuff taken out of context, but he is an ally even if many don't see it. As far as this film, I will wait to make a judgement until I see it for myself.