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Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:47 PM

Judge Ellis is inserting himself into the Manafort trial in a very juvenile fashion.

Rachel just reading a transcript in which the judge is admonishing a prosecutor for looking down and rolling his eyes. The judge is becoming a distraction.

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Reply Judge Ellis is inserting himself into the Manafort trial in a very juvenile fashion. (Original post)
onecaliberal Aug 2018 OP
dhol82 Aug 2018 #1
WhiteTara Aug 2018 #9
PJMcK Aug 2018 #32
WhiteTara Aug 2018 #38
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #11
PJMcK Aug 2018 #33
LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #2
PJMcK Aug 2018 #35
spooky3 Aug 2018 #3
displacedtexan Aug 2018 #48
BigmanPigman Aug 2018 #4
PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #5
spooky3 Aug 2018 #6
wishstar Aug 2018 #13
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #20
Glimmer of Hope Aug 2018 #7
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #10
spooky3 Aug 2018 #15
magicarpet Aug 2018 #8
tblue37 Aug 2018 #31
magicarpet Aug 2018 #47
GusBob Aug 2018 #12
UTUSN Aug 2018 #14
PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #19
emulatorloo Aug 2018 #24
sprinkleeninow Aug 2018 #28
Princess Turandot Aug 2018 #16
PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #29
Princess Turandot Aug 2018 #17
matt819 Aug 2018 #18
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #21
PoliticAverse Aug 2018 #22
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #25
bettyellen Aug 2018 #30
LiberalFighter Aug 2018 #46
MurrayDelph Aug 2018 #23
no_hypocrisy Aug 2018 #26
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #27
no_hypocrisy Aug 2018 #44
TomSlick Aug 2018 #34
Name removed Aug 2018 #36
onecaliberal Aug 2018 #37
oasis Aug 2018 #39
sprinkleeninow Aug 2018 #42
MontanaMama Aug 2018 #40
customerserviceguy Aug 2018 #43
customerserviceguy Aug 2018 #41
oasis Aug 2018 #45

Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:49 PM

1. I asked before if he had been paid off

Still wonder who his friends might be.

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:55 PM

9. trump put in place. nt

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:23 PM

32. Really? Are you sure?

You might be wrong. According to Wikipedia:

Thomas Selby Ellis III (born May 15, 1940) is a Senior United States District Judge of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia, appointed by Ronald Reagan.


There's a bit more at his Wikipedia entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Ellis_III

While Judge Ellis may be a conservative Republican, there isn't any evidence that he has a bias towards Trump.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #32)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:25 AM

38. I reread his bio and no, I'm incorrect on this one.

I thought trump's admin moved him over to Eastern VA, but I didn't find that

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Response to dhol82 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:58 PM

11. Seems plausible.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:24 PM

33. Based on what? (n/t)

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:51 PM

2. Based on what I heard that judge needs to be sanctioned or whatever

they do to judges that are inappropriate.

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:25 PM

35. What did you hear?

Thanks for posting a link.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:51 PM

3. It sounds as if he wants to be offered a Judge Judy-type gig.

Very unprofessional unless the attorneys are truly making faces at him, which I doubt.

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #3)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 10:35 AM

48. That's exactly what I thought!

Bet he's got a demo reel ready togo after this trial.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:51 PM

4. The guy sounds like an ass, a grand stander or both.

Rachel said he acts like "an underfed alley cat caught in a rainstorm".

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:52 PM

5. If you want something to not be a distraction you can help by ignoring it. n/t

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:53 PM

6. Barbara McQuade (attorney, now on Rachel's show) is pointing out what is unusual about this

judge's behavior--"he is far too involved..."

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:59 PM

13. Judge stepped way over line in injecting his personal opinion comment about Gates

Barbara McQuade said that the Judge told Gates that Manafort must not have been that closely involved in the business for Gates to have been able to embezzle so much. Totally improper for a judge.

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Response to wishstar (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:30 PM

20. I heard that too. Unbelievable.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:54 PM

7. His behavior is very weird. It makes me nervous.



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Response to Glimmer of Hope (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:56 PM

10. It worries me too because that fucker could skate.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:07 PM

15. I'm hoping that the jury will view this as we do. Alexandria is a blue county,

but more importantly, residents have high average education levels. I don't know whether this jury is representative, but my guess would be that at least some of them will not be impressed or intimidated by the judge's behavior, and will pay more attention to the evidence.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:54 PM

8. Age may have caught up with him.

Courtroom decorum tossed out the window. He treats the courtroom like his private playroom fiefdom.

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Response to magicarpet (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:21 PM

31. At 78, he could easily be suffering from early stage dementia. Becoming irritable &

aggressive over minor or irrelevant details is a common symptom.

Or he could just be an arrogant, egotistical ass.

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #31)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 09:19 AM

47. Either or something ain't quite right there.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:58 PM

12. One of the defense lawyers (I think) said of him:

He wants to be treated like the smartest person in the room

Only an asshole with shit poor judgement would have that mindset

This guy sounds like a jerk-off

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:59 PM

14. The guest just nailed my fear: "the effect on the jury". Yea, his rulings might be correct but

what are a bunch of non-lawyers (the jury) supposed to think when they see a judge berating and screaming almost always at ONE side?!1

The guest said that misbehavior by a judge can be fixed by a writ of mandamus, "but I doubt we'll get into that territory."







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Response to UTUSN (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:30 PM

19. "they see a judge berating and screaming almost always at ONE side?!1" - much of that...

(comments of the judge to the prosecutors) happens when the jury is out of the court room.

Also note that the prosecution is making its case right now, so most of his comments at the present time
would be to the prosecution.


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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:01 PM

24. This was said in front of the jury during cross examination of gates by Manafort's attorney.

“Manafort in my opinion kept fairly frequent updates,” Gates said, after a discussion of movement between their consulting firm’s offshore accounts. “Mr. Manafort was very good at knowing where the money was and where it was going.”

Judge Ellis, as he has repeatedly, interjected.

“He didn’t know about the money you were stealing,” Ellis said, “so he didn’t do it that closely.”

——————————

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:10 PM

28. Yesterday I got troubled by this judge's judicial 'behaviour' in the courtroom.

Now today I'm reading this.

What kind of 'decorum' coming from him...

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:11 PM

16. From the WaPo folks covering the trial:

They think that he is accosting the prosecution far more than usual, despite what some other observers are insisting about his style. They are attributing it to his publicly stated view that special prosecutors are a bad idea.


From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/07/paul-manafort-trial-day-6-live-coverage
The section is near the end of the article:

9:37 a.m.: Behind judge’s clash with prosecutors, sharp opinions about special counsels

Judge Ellis has clashed repeatedly with prosecutors for Robert S. Mueller III’s special counsel throughout Paul Manafort’s trial, chastising them for introducing evidence he deems irrelevant, spending too much time on some issues and even for showing their frustration in their faces.

Ellis is never shy about telling lawyers what he thinks, but it is rare for him to so aggressively criticize prosecutors in trial. More often, his caustic remarks about wasted time and his interruptions mid-testimony come at a defendant’s expense. More than one defense lawyer has appealed to the Fourth Circuit on those grounds.
...
While he ruled that Mueller did have the authority to bring the charges against Manafort, he added in his opinion that “the wisdom of allowing all links between individuals associated with President Trump’s campaign and the Russian government to be subject to investigation, irrespective of how stale those connections might be, is seriously in doubt.”

The latitude given to special prosecutors is an issue that has long concerned Ellis. In his opinion allowing the Manafort prosecution to go forward, despite his misgivings, he cited a 1997 judicial symposium he helped moderate called, “The Independent Counsel Process: Is It Broken and How Should It Be Fixed?”


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Response to Princess Turandot (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:18 PM

29. We'll know better when we see how he treats the defense when they start presenting their case. n/t

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:21 PM

17. BTW, today he said this, *just before the jury left for the day*...

“Mr. Manafort in my opinion kept fairly frequent updates,” Gates said, after a discussion of movement between their consulting firm’s offshore accounts. “Mr. Manafort was very good at knowing where the money was and where it was going.”

Judge Ellis, as he has repeatedly, interjected.

“He didn’t know about the money you were stealing,” Ellis said, “so he didn’t do it that closely.”


Wouldn't it have been the defense's role to make that remark?

And as others have said, even if he does this kind of shit nonstop during every trial, the jurors only know what he is doing in this one. I only hope that he's irritating them as well.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:27 PM

18. Setting the stage?

If Gates is convicted, maybe the judge’s behavior, even though it seems directed against the prosecution, can be used in the appeal.

As with Justice Kennedy, a) follow the money and b) what do Ellis’s Wife and kids do?

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Response to matt819 (Reply #18)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:34 PM

21. Gates isn't on trial, Manafort is and if he's found innocent he clearly cannot be retried.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #18)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:35 PM

22. He's specifically been preventing the prosecution from doing things that might have been appeal-able.

The defense isn't going to appeal a conviction based on the fact he restricted the prosecution from engaging
in certain behavior.

It's there's an appeal it would be based on how the judge treats the defense and their case and arguments
when they start presenting them.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:02 PM

25. NO, He's inserting his own answers after the witness speaks.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:18 PM

30. But the point is only the defense can appeal on these grounds- if he hobbled the defense...

 

Unfortunately the prosecution can’t get an appeal if they feel the judge damaged their case. He can’t be tried again.
They can follow up w some sort of writ about judicial misbehavior (very rare) , but the prosecution loses anyway.
Hopefully the jury disregards this because it does seem well documented that Manafort well knew and approved of the illegal money transfers, etc. Exactly how close doesn’t matter.

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Response to matt819 (Reply #18)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 08:29 AM

46. I would want to know what his kids or other relatives do.

Or his financial status.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 10:44 PM

23. It's like a scene from The Verdict

"Your honor, with all due respect: if you're going to try my case for me, I wish you wouldn't lose it."

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:04 PM

26. My law partner got admonished by our judge when she rolled her eyes too.

He threatened her with contempt and expulsion from the courtroom.

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Response to no_hypocrisy (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:06 PM

27. His head was down, not sure how he was able to see an eye roll.

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Response to onecaliberal (Reply #27)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 05:55 AM

44. So was hers. But in our case, she also slightly shook her head.

That could have been the give-away.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:24 PM

34. Old Lawyer joke. Yes, I'm an old lawyer.

Judge: "Counsel, are you attempting to show your contempt for this court?"

Lawyer: "No, your honor. I am working very hard to hide it."

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)


Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Tue Aug 7, 2018, 11:54 PM

37. This is not what judges do, according to other state attorneys. I will take their word for it.

Judge Ellis, as he has repeatedly, interjected.

“He didn’t know about the money you were stealing,” Ellis said, “so he didn’t do it that closely.”

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:26 AM

39. Judge Ellis is making an ass of himself. Period.

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Response to oasis (Reply #39)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:43 AM

42. You made me laugh. Short and sweet.

I don't know what to think at this point. Oy.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:39 AM

40. I posted this on another thread

and I’m almost embarrassed to say it but I fear that all the optimistic talk that Manafort is screwed etc etc may be misplaced. The fix was in for tRump and the fix could very well be in for this too. Manafort is steadfast that he won’t flip almost like he knows he’ll get off. I know it sounds crazy but after 2016, I will never be overconfident again...about anything.

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Response to MontanaMama (Reply #40)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:45 AM

43. Agreed

A couple weeks in real jail didn't get Manafort to flip, and if he can drag out both trials until after November (sentencing can surely be postponed that long) then he's counting on a pardon the day after the midterms are over. I'd venture to say that his hope is not in vain, Trump needed his help to get where he is today, and he hasn't done a Cohen to earn the ire of the Donald. He'll be rewarded like the loyal soldier that he has been playing the part of.

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Response to onecaliberal (Original post)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 12:42 AM

41. My fear is

he'll be worse than that. Yes, there is a jury trial, but there are situations where a judge can declare that a guilty verdict was an improper one to reach, and the judge can void the jury's decision.

That's what I'm afraid of. This assclown is a Repuke appointee, he may well have an agenda.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #41)

Wed Aug 8, 2018, 06:42 AM

45. A Judge Zobel, in the highly publicized "Au Pair" trial in 1997, let

the defendant off with "time served" for the shaking death of an infant. She had served less than a year while awaiting trial.

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