General Discussion
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HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)We should be talking about:
1. A living minimum wage,
2. Universal healthcare or at least single payer,
3. Employee rights,
4. Preservation of women's rights,
5. Preservation of civil rights (all minorities and LGBT),
6. Meaningful gun safety legislation and protection of our children,
7. Protecting public education.
8. Restoring worker's rights
And whatever other non-controversial, but universally popular liberal positions that we can. How do we help get the message out?
Instead, many want to revisit the 2016 blame game.
beaglelover
(3,393 posts)And yes, I do blame those democrats and independents who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary for one BS reason or another. They own our shared bleak future.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)revmclaren
(2,487 posts)and getting less and less every time one of our rights or freedoms are lost. But by all means, keep supporting those who handed out or drank the kool-aid.
And dont bother replying to me... your opinion is less than s$%t to me.
Only! 2018 - 2020.
P.S. ..Fuck civility to all enablers!
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)I just don't understand why we are fighting instead of trying to bring everyone we possibly can back into the party.
So F$%k your s$%t A%%&0le.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)ChiTownDenny
(747 posts)Chickensoup
(650 posts)Cha
(295,543 posts)You're getting nowhere.
revmclaren
(2,487 posts)Only!!! 2018 - 2020.
Response to beaglelover (Reply #3)
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seaglass
(8,170 posts)Response to seaglass (Reply #14)
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seaglass
(8,170 posts)as I am one (unenrolled).
The left that had the brains to vote for Hillary in the GE I am more than happy to unify with. The miserable unreliable fools who didn't know enough to do that can do whatever they please. I wouldn't count on them for votes.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)machoneman
(3,942 posts)Just think, 25-35 more years of a conservative SC. Thanks alot, you assholes!
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,103 posts)dbackjon
(6,578 posts)There is no one factor behind Trump's selection, but Stein/Sarandon et al are one factor.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Squinch
(50,673 posts)Response to Post removed (Original post)
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harry (Harry Enten, senior political writer): The case, as far as I see it, is twofold: First, the number of votes cast for Stein in the three states that proved to be pivotal (Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) exceeded Trumps margin of victory over Clinton.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/
uponit7771
(90,193 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)So I think you are incorrect on this.
However, voter suppression is a huge problem. No arguments there.
However, was "voter suppression" magically not an issue in 2008 and 2012 but for all other elections before or since? Check the curve in the graph if you don't know what I mean.
uponit7771
(90,193 posts)... was suppressed or not in 16.
How would they poll it?
The sampling would be all over the place
lapucelle
(18,017 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The numbers PROVE that the difference in three states were the IMBECILES that voted for Jill Stein because their repulsive purity didn't allow them to think of anyone but themselves. We TRIED to tell the morons the #1 issue was the courts but they felt whining about emails was too important. The numbers PROVE that these people turned out to vote and decided their fucking purity was more important than anything. I'll never stop ridiculing them for their disgusting fecklessness.
Response to leftynyc (Reply #7)
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leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Knock yourself out. I was accommodating last time and tried to understand. No more, I hope you suffer consequences that your short sighted nonsense hasn't even considered. Is that clear enough?
Response to leftynyc (Reply #15)
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nycbos
(6,030 posts)... and a deadly enemy.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)How exactly does a post lecturing people for failing to vote the right way increase party unity? I say that as someone who voted the right way in the general election but the wrong way in the primary.
Bryant
Response to el_bryanto (Reply #20)
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Cha
(295,543 posts)and Do the SAME LIES AGAIN. So you Admit the LIES are what helped the Russians Rig trump in.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)to Hillary?
What could have been done to insure that minority members got out and voted?
Hmmmmmm! Seems simple to me. But I am not allowed to answer my own questions.
I will just say that politics is the art of compromise.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Those were two dropped swing states.
That's consistent with what I posted above.
That's not consistent with "Jill Stein" voter theory.
That said, I do think there were Jill Stein voters and other third party voters but from the data I posted they pulled from both Clinton and Trump.
For example, % of whites for obama to clinton dropped 2%, but % of whites for romney to trump also dropped 2%....equally.
Yes, they probably went for Stein or another candidate, but didn't seem to tip it over to Trump.
Certainly not as much as the overall shifts you seen in other demographics that I've linked.
questionseverything
(9,631 posts)or if it just went uncounted
supposedly there were 44,000 ballets in Milwaukee neighborhoods with no choice for pres
stein tried to make them hand count but lost in court
racine county had a really high undervote in the presidential race also
election integrity activists are still trying to get hand counts done
I do not believe hc actually lost
and since the ptb will not count votes in a transparent manner, I assume they are hiding something
xmas74
(29,635 posts)Was given the runaround on where to vote in Racine County. He's AA and was proud to vote in his first election. She said a few of his friends were also given runarounds, even though they were all registered voters.
KPN
(15,578 posts)many of whom were independents.
Blame is a loser's game. We don't want to be losers.
machoneman
(3,942 posts)n/m
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It seems rather absurd and dull-witted to instruct people which concern to hold fast to at the expense of any other concerns.
Granted, a dull mind may truly and honestly believe ignoring A to concentrate wholly on B is the only available option, but the rational mind, the critical mind can hold two (or more) concerns simultaneously (no, really!).
On the other hand, if you yourself need to wholly and completely ignore one premise to better understand another one, that's on you.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)Ron Baiman (Ph. D.): U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies.... (Affadavit)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210343625
Updated, Expanded and Corrected Affidavit Version: U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies Fit Chronic Republican Vote Count Rigging, not Random Statistical, Patterns https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319205877_Updated_Expanded_and_Corrected_Affidavit_Version_US_2016_Unadjusted_Exit_Poll_Discrepancies_Fit_Chronic_Republican_Vote_-_Count_Rigging_not_Random_Statistical_Patterns
Shy Voters Probably Arent Why The Polls Missed Trump
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/shy-voters-probably-arent-why-the-polls-missed-trump/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.
The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.
We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691
Here is how they stole the election, well this and KGB operatives V Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
23:00 6/25/2017
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/
The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trumps shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation despite each working independently and using differing methodologies somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.
Ask any statistician and theyll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.
According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. Thats not how numbers tend to work in the real world.
On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.
MikeFarb @mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit
Link to tweet
Ron Baiman (Ph. D.): U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies.... (Affadavit)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210343625
Updated, Expanded and Corrected Affidavit Version: U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies Fit Chronic Republican Vote Count Rigging, not Random Statistical, Patterns https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319205877_Updated_Expanded_and_Corrected_Affidavit_Version_US_2016_Unadjusted_Exit_Poll_Discrepancies_Fit_Chronic_Republican_Vote_-_Count_Rigging_not_Random_Statistical_Patterns
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Hope it helps to quell this beast....
.
RandomAccess
(5,210 posts)worth a try.
Jakes Progress
(11,121 posts)And it doesn't matter what I want. Those that voted for trump will go to hell. But because of stein, sarandon, and their ilk, the rest of us will have to live in hell too.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)ecstatic
(32,532 posts)and if we're going to finger point, that should be the starting place. Unbelievable!
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)I remember the 2008 election. I was working election protection.
One voter, an African-American, proudly wanted a photo of him in front of his polling place with an image of his vote for Obama.
Hillary lost because of the vice president she chose. He is a great guy, but he did not catch the imagination of voters and did not win the election for her.
I may be very wrong, but I thought maybe she was hoping to get more votes in the South with her vice presidential choice, and he would have made a good vice president.
But getting elected is what should have been the top priority.
Several choices were open to her -- a member of a minority, maybe a Texas Democrat of Spanish-speaking heritage, and African-American (lots of possibilities) or obviously, Bernie.
Any one of those and her chance of winning would have been enhanced because she would have attracted an existing set of voters in crucial states.
Good lesson for the future assuming we are still a democracy in the future.
ecstatic
(32,532 posts)1) Bernie Sanders & his most vocal/celebrity supporters created a huge echo chamber (Susan, Cornel, Nina, Killer Mike, etc) They couldn't see that they were being used as tools by Russian trolls in the run up to the election. I personally know several black guys who were so disgusted and pissed off with Hillary based on the smears put out by Sanders' supporters combined with Russian trolls. Not only that, but the trolls etc., were making them turn on Pres. Obama as well. I tried, possibly in vain, to get them to see that they were being misled. For the record, my friends say they voted for Hillary, but it's hard for me to believe that based on the anger and disgust they had expressed prior to the election. Then when you add voter suppression and purging, the odds were even less in Hillary's favor. Nevertheless, AA make up 12% of the US population, so placing blame on AAs is foolish.
2)Jill Stein and Gary Johnson: Ignorant, unqualified clowns who were not qualified to run for dog catcher, much less president. They were there to siphon votes and disrupt. Stein was possibly there due as part of Russian meddling.
3) Russian collusion/treason with trump/wikileaks/etc.
4) The media: Issue 3 wouldn't have been as problematic were it not for the media who couldn't get enough of attacking and bashing Hillary.
5) Comey
6) Racism. Racism obviously played a role, but it could have been overcome by the pragmatic majority were it not for issues 1 through 5.
Sophia4
(3,515 posts)Bernie very enthusiastically and actively campaigned for her.
Google it and you will find all the articles on his travels and campaigning for her.
Comey may have been a problem but only because of the transfer of e-mails to a private e-mail account at Huma Abedin's house. I'm sure that all involved thought it was a good idea at the time, but they should have asked a cyber expert for input on the idea before doing it.
Russian collusion was an element, a big one. But the Russians just played on divisions in our country -- unless they hacked the vote tallies in some way in key states, and I would not eliminate that possibility. We rely far too much on computers in our elections. I vote by absentee ballot and make a copy of my ballot before I send it out. Let's encourage every Democrat to do that where possible.
Racism???? Not in California. But then California voted by a large majority for Hillary. I live in a very racially mixed neighborhood, so I am not as aware of that as an element in the election. I do know that members of minorities did not vote in large enough numbers, so maybe racism was a factor.
ecstatic
(32,532 posts)NOT racism from minorities towards Hillary. Again, if you look at the percentages, every racial group with the exception of whites voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.
And I don't agree that Bernie as VP would have worked. It's true that many Bernie voters went on to vote trump, but I respect Hillary's decision to not go the gimmicky route and instead choose a compatible and qualified running mate.
LonePirate
(13,379 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190
And yes, clearly, Jill Stein and the rest of the far left doing all they can to dissuade people from voting for Hillary made an impact in the General Election. And people (like you in that post I linked to) who spent 2016 bashing Hillary Clinton with lies also bear responsibility.
You should take your own advice and learn from your mistakes, or you will be end up helping the GOP win again.
Response to DanTex (Reply #21)
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DanTex
(20,709 posts)Response to DanTex (Reply #30)
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DanTex
(20,709 posts)uponit7771
(90,193 posts)LonePirate
(13,379 posts)They helped elect the current president and as such they bear the same amount of responsibility for the mess we are now in today.
seaglass
(8,170 posts)since those who refused to vote for Hillary are not welcome here.
Hav
(5,969 posts)it's rather insulting to be honest.
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)Clearly someone doesnt like it that the chickens came home to roost and it wasnt a scare tactic.
Hav
(5,969 posts)Looks like the game starts again without lessons learned.
Stupid protest voters are a major part of the problem that gave us Trump. The deflections need to stop, you own it.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)The next step in your recovery from Steinism is to stop defending her.
Because defending Jill Stein is incompatible with supporting logic and truth.
Cha
(295,543 posts)RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)You voted for her. You admitted it.
Instead of issuing a mea culpa in your OP, you just don't want to hear from anyone that you screwed up, big time, and the bill came due today.
Adenoid_Hynkel
(14,093 posts)and they're still a problem - they just picked off a member of Democratic House leadership last night, by getting their fellow pal of rightwing Bernie or Bust and Seth Rich conspiracist Jimmy Dore in there
Exotica
(1,461 posts)Democratic woman of colour.
lpbk2713
(42,674 posts)Race or gender was not mentioned in the post you object to.
Exotica
(1,461 posts)And accusing a PoC of playing a race card or a woman of playing the gender card when they are sticking up for another PoC woman, especially in a majority/minority district is the epitome of RW tosh.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,144 posts)I can only laugh because i've done so much crying. We are literally shooting ourselves in the foot with all this infighting and purity tests.
So not only do we not need any primary Sanders supporters, or anyone that doesn't hate Susan Sarandon and Jill Stein, now its even Democratic nominees that don't pass your smell test?
Demsrule86
(68,217 posts)we have now lost two SCOTUS appointment and their very stupid voters gave the GOP victory too...also Nina Turner the head of OR needs to be added to that group. Oh so it's the minority voters fault..sure it is ...not. The Greens gave us United, and two stupid wars, economic collapse and now they have delivered two SCOTUS seats to the Republicans and most likely another economic collapse.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)oasis
(49,108 posts)It isn't as though skimming off a few thousand votes here and there was no big deal.
If we have to live with the decisions of Trump's SCOTUS for the next two decades, those who aided Trump, in any way, should feel the full measure of our wrath.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)The numbers show a huge drop of of AA vote.
Do you want to scorn them too?
The numbers show a huge drop of Asian vote.
Do you want to scorn them too?
...
How about we stop scorning people and starting looking at some facts and listening to people and see why the voted or didn't vote at all?
SunSeeker
(51,302 posts)The minority vote did not have a huge dropoff. It simply went back to where it traditionally was for Democrats before the first ever African American presidential was on the ballot. Blaming Hillary's loss or Trump's win on minority voters is wrong and offensive.
get the red out
(13,456 posts)What other candidate had ever been continuously vilified by all RW media sources since 1992? That stuff leaks out into the mainstream and eats into people's minds, even non-conservative people.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)that the share of the black vote falling from 12.9% of the electorate to about 11.9% (about 765,000 votes over all) is reason why tRump is in office and not Hillary, then we are truly in trouble. Let's look at the facts.....all of them. Gary Johnson got over 4 million votes and Jill received about 1.2 million. Each one of them received enough votes to impact the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, and Michigan. Considering where the majority of black folks live and are registered to vote (for example, there's not that many of us in Wisconsin but there are a ton of us in Louisiana and all throughout the south) and given the fact that the vast majority of white people of all ages and social standing voted for the Orangeman, I would say that you beef is with them. By "them", I mean white folks. Not black people. Have you seen a tRump rally? Ever?
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484
uponit7771
(90,193 posts)THANK YOU !!!
When they try to baffle us with bulls$%t, hit them with facts. Time to call them out at every chance...
Only!!! 2018 - 2020.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)Apparently OP will say anything to avoid responsibility for his poor choices and the destructiveness his vote enabled.
spicysista
(1,663 posts)Demsrule86
(68,217 posts)suppression....particularly minority voters but they came out strong for us...few posts have ever disturbed me as much as yours...you defend Stein while attacking an important Democratic constituency unfairly. I will despise Jill Stein and Nader for that matter until the day I die...I dream of seeing the Russian colluding Green liar in an orange jumpsuit for her roll in helping to steal the election for Trump and her buddy Putin.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)You restating your premises do not make them correct.
The voter suppression argument is refuted by the Pew poll as it references "eligible voters" as the denominator.
stonecutter357
(12,678 posts)Cha
(295,543 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190
MariaCSR
(642 posts)Bradical79
(4,490 posts)boston bean
(36,181 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)No thanks.
Im am glad to see someone being so honest. Its no different than Trump. A fascist minority making demands or they will work against progress. The most pathetic part is that these Stein/Sarandon people are in an extreme minority even when compared to Trump voters. Thats how fucked in the head they are.
elleng
(129,800 posts)And something about a few states that didn't get the attention they needed.
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Renew Deal
(81,774 posts)standingtall
(2,785 posts)This is America not France. We have an electoral college process to deal with. If we had a run off system voting for 3rd parties would be fine,but we don't. Either it's the voters fault who were allowed to vote including 3rd party voters who wasted their vote on a candidate that couldn't win for government we got or voting doesn't matter it can't be both.
NY_20th
(1,028 posts)this administration, then yes, they get the blame for this crisis we are in.
The Democratic Party is not something you can place threats on in order to push an agenda that has been rejected time and time again.
If these voters aren't out there actively getting out the vote to remove Republicans and Trump, then they are simply enablers and not worth a damn bit of my time or pity.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)You mean the people who won us these rights that youre now so concerned about losing?
Thanks so much for your concern.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Response to Post removed (Original post)
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marble falls
(56,031 posts)StevieM
(10,499 posts)that fact.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-pedraza-latino-vote-20170111-story.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/no-trump-didn-surprisingly-latino-voters-article-1.2944772
And it isn't reasonable to expect HRC to do as well with African-American voters as Barack Obama did. Turnout was likely to be higher for the first black president. But her performance was about the same as John Kerry. And that is impressive given that voter suppression laws have been implemented since then. She outperformed Kerry in states that did not set out to suppress the vote with photo ID laws.
And why would we believe that Bernie Sanders would have done better. The whole reason he wasn't the nominee is because she crushed him among minority voters.
SubjectTrip
(79 posts)And I've seen many Hillary voters who are more affable towards Comey than Bernie fans, which kind of boggles the mind
standingtall
(2,785 posts)or 3rd party progressive voters throwing away their votes it's a combination off all those things. Any one of those things not happening probably would've swung the election back to her.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)are doomed to repeat it.
Nader voters gave the election to Bush in 2000. Rather than learn their lesson many refused to get off their ideological high horse to do the right thing for their country. They think voting is all about them. They are self centered and spoiled little brats who rather get nothing that 80-90% of what they want so they can self righteously pound their chests to proclaim they never compromised their precious principles.
xeodtech
(79 posts)Cha
(295,543 posts)You believed stein's and ssarandon's LIES that Hillary would be worse.. what are you even doing here?
This is your damn quote..
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190
You got Suckered.. how you like it now.. jill stein voter? your trying to assuage your guilt is NOT working.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Cha
(295,543 posts)with it.
Scurrilous
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)the OP is and how comfortable with blaming solid Dem voters while turning a blind eye to Putin's dinner date. Will never forget that or forgive it as long as I live.
Cha
(295,543 posts)Millions SUCKERED in Swing states and now we have a documented stein voter here who Didn't Vote for Hillary.. trying to tell us it's not stein's fault Leave jill stein alone BOOFUCKNGHOO.
Skidmore
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Much love.
Cha
(295,543 posts)Skidmore
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Its offensive.
Cha
(295,543 posts)came back to tell us to Leave Jill Stein ALONE.
Only Not a Secret anymore.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)slightly gravitated a little closer to Trump than Romney.
In an election where you actually count numbers, numbers matter.
I tried to tell you guys this before the election:
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/12511400972
I predicted the outcome, but y'all didn't wanna listen.
What I hadn't imagined was that
a.) AA vote turnout would tank
b.) a portion of the minority vote would actually flip for Trump.
Which is what seemed to have happened.
What I also didn't predict was that white vote % would GO DOWN from Romney to Trump
What I did predict and probably did matter was that white turnout would go up. But like I said y'all didn't wanna listen.
So now you have Trump.
And yet, you go ad hominem on me.
Shame on you.
Hav
(5,969 posts)And now you have the gall to come here and lecture the posters here? To ask not to talk bad about the stupid rubes who got persuaded by idiots like Sarandon and Stein? Seriously?
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)If you want to keep on living in a fantasy world rather than looking at real numbers go ahead.
BumRushDaShow
(126,630 posts)These are the results of my state, Pennsylvania, in 2016, which has 20 electoral votes -
(DEM)
47.85%
Votes: 2,926,441
Running mate: TIM KAINE
TRUMP, DONALD J
(REP)
48.58%
Votes: 2,970,733
Running mate: MICHAEL R PENCE
DIFFERENCE = 44,292 <---
https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/SummaryResults?ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0
THIRD PARTY
(CON)
0.35%
Votes: 21,572
Running mate: SCOTT N BRADLEY
STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.82%
Votes: 49,941 <---
Running mate: AJAMU BARAKA
JOHNSON, GARY E
(LIB)
2.40%
Votes: 146,715
Running mate: WILLIAM WELD
TOTAL 3RD PARTY = 218,228
https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/SummaryResults?ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0
Jill Stein's numbers here in PA alone were MORE than the difference between Drumpf and Clinton.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)We are diluting things by voting for people who will never win yet have good ideas. We should take those ideas and incorporate them into a single candidate. However that's done. It does help the political process to get those political ideas out there but a vote thrown away is just that. Why we're bellyaching our country is being consumed by a monster authoritarian asshole. This ain't just politics folks. People are going to die because of this prick. People have already died because of this prick. North Korea has not stopped refining uranium. Putin still has Trump by the balls and this country is within his grasp. When you have Republicans saying they admire Russia and maybe we should adopt a more authoritarian form of government, which they are saying, the American dream is up shit creek. The election is in the past. This is now. The past is coming back to haunt us. So let it be a lesson learned and not use that lesson to bash each other.
still_one
(91,807 posts)Steins influenced with their bullshit, that either had them voting third party or not voting.
They were given airtime to preach their bullshit, and God knows how people they influenced with their lies and deception.
Hillary is worse than trump was their mantra.
They sure influenced people here, or are you that unaware how many people here left because they refused to vote for the Democratic nominee.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104210
It didn't take many to be influenced by the way
Every Democratic running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the establishment, incumbent, republican, and those Democrat were liberal by any standard.
In all those critical swing states Jill Stein attained approximately 1% of the vote, just enough to cause Hillary to lose.
Sorry, but just like Nader in 2000, they can't run away from this, and as far as I am concerned they have blood on their hands.
They own this
Cha
(295,543 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Jill Stein was not going to win. It was a throwaway vote at the time the country could ill afford a throwaway vote.
As for Susan Sarandon, she better have her sneakers ready. When Roe is overturned in the near future, she will have to march to save women from their future as breeding cows.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and yours is steaming like a shitpile on a November morning... Are you really trying to blame black voters for Trump?
I'm more than happy to address your non-points, but I'm not in a good place right now so I'd probably say something I'll regret...
I still can't tell if you're serious of if you're taking the piss, but either way I'll have to deal with you later.
spooky3
(34,231 posts)the Democratic nominee. For all other groups you cite, the %s are considerably lower. So while every individual who could have but failed to vote for the Democratic nominee deserves to take responsibility and to be criticized, when you are talking about groups of people, Stein voters have a much worse % record than any other group.
pnwmom
(108,915 posts)That's why people are angry with her -- that and her dinner with Putin.
And we will stay angry.
mwooldri
(10,291 posts)... people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 who then voted for Trump in 2016.
ismnotwasm
(41,885 posts)Gonna blame them until the day I die.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)but they - and you - are damned sure part of it. Is your pathetic little purity test bullshit worth what is going on now?
Im quite certain you think it is. You still think you did the right thing. Youll find some stupid-ass excuse to not vote for our candidate next time as well.
Youre just Trumpers with different slogans, and Im sick of the lot of you.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)They only think of themselves and their "pride" at wanting to be wooed and "convinced" that their vote has been "earned". Their "fuck everyone" strategy doesn't affect them... only the most vulnerable among us... only the ones who are marginalized and at-risk.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)By most especially those that said Hillary would be worse than Trump.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,611 posts)It is fallacious fantasy to assign single causes to large events.
It's a bit like the weakest link in a chain analogy. They were a weak link. Maybe not the weakest link, but a weak link that should not have been weak at all. Any weak link could break, as they did and several other weak links broke too (collusion, selling out or being blackmailed, weak election security, voter suppression, dirty tricks with social media and many others).
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,474 posts)who happens to be an over-privileged ass carrot with a highly inflated sense of self. But in the scheme of things neither one of them are responsible for the collective stupidity, narcissism and apathy that has blanketed this country for decades. I hate repeating myself but as stated earlier:
Stolen 200 election, 09/11/2001, the Iraq fiasco, the great recession, the Great Russian heist of 2016, etc, et etc. Nothing changes. What do these narcissistic pricks need to have happen, for them to get off their stupid asses and get involved? In the end what will fuck this country for good is the endless supply of apathy from a staggering portion of our citizenry.
JustAnotherGen
(31,631 posts)For my journal -
Minorities 'increased' GOP votes for Trump.
Ties to recent post about blacks being the reason for Trumps treatment of asylum seekers.
BumRushDaShow
(126,630 posts)Fuck that shit.
WHITES ARE THE MAJORITY. Blacks are 13% of the population. You can't keep hanging your damn hats on everyone else but yourselves. We vote 90+% of the time for the party under the most adverse of conditions, including voter purges, closures of polls forcing some people to vote at a county seat, and more recently, some states that had the option - elimination or restriction of "early voting".
Some of you folks need to smack your Drumpf-humping brother-in-laws or parents upside the head and get their asses in gear so they can get woke.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)BumRushDaShow
(126,630 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Better try next time.
7962
(11,841 posts)If more stayed home, their likely HRC votes that didnt get cast. And in Michigan, only 11k votes were needed
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Or we can blame....how about the weather? Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's blame the weather.
Let's blame everyone but Russian-connected people like the Trump team and Jill Stein. We don't want to blame THEM, for gosh sakes. Not when the evil Comey is still lurking in the country.
It's time to quit re-hashing the old election, unless it's in an analytical article or post, discussing ALL aspects of the election, and includes facts, figures, polls, election result data, and the like.
SunSeeker
(51,302 posts)Her numbers dropped several points nationally, which was enough to flip tight swing states.
emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)Voting is a civic responsibility, and one of the things we do when we vote is strive to protect the most vulnerable people in our country.
You gobbled up recycled/repurposed right-wing garbage from the likes of Stein and made your precious useless vanity vote without considering the consequences for your fellow citizens. You enabled a fascist.
You have the opportunity to redeem yourself in the future. The road to redemption is voting for politicians who can win and make a positive change in peoples lives, not self-justification and serving as a Stein apologist.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)that of whites and blacks, at least in Presidential elections.
And I'm not talking for 2016, I'm talking generally and consistently over time.
Are you saying Asians and Latinos are shirking their civic responsibility?
emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)Stop attempting to shift the goal posts and stopped putting words in my mouth.
You fucked up. The good news is you can do better in the future.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)emulatorloo
(43,922 posts)Dont piss on my shoes and tell me its raining.
You fucked up. Own it and try to do better in the future.
NY_20th
(1,028 posts)Thank you.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,041 posts)wagging. Making sense wont make you many friends here though. It is so much more fun for many to jump on that easy rolling bandwagon of blaming. Thank you for doing your research!!!
Also, we should be working harder on trying to stop the suppression AND the russian interference INSTEAD of blaming.
I have no statistics to back this up, but my feeling is that the orange dicktator would have won regardless because of the rigged ballots. Which makes the blame game even more senseless.
Paladin
(28,173 posts)liberalmuse
(18,670 posts)...that you can choose to withhold your vote or not vote at all. It does affect a lot of other people, though, but hey, fuck them, right?
There are plenty of GOP voters, and they share the most blame for choosing the lowest common denominator by eagerly lapping up 40 years of right wing propaganda. Hell, they can't even form a logical argument, but those who knew better and could have tipped the scales and prevented this horrific administration share a lot of the blame, too.
Some people just don't give a shit about others because their precious principles are more important to them than other human beings, how it loots the public treasury and tears up our beautiful commons for profit.
Anyone who has lived more than a couple decades should be all too familiar with how the GOP treats certain human beings. And then there is the fact that Trump ran on taking this a step further. We knew by his words what he would do to LGBT, Muslims, Mexicans and other Central American asylum seekers and immigrants.
I say to everyone who values their alleged principles to the point where they will throw the planet and its sentient beings under the bus in order to uphold them, enjoy your fucking principles because they are meaningless when in the end, millions of people will end up suffering and the harm done may be irreparable.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Are you going to lecture them?
Just check the Pew Center poll and follow the curve, how can you not notice that Asia and Latino voter turnout has been quite low?
Are they "privileged, safe and utterly self-involved"?
I have voted for Democrat and Green (but only when I though the Dem was safe) Candidates up and down the ballot for every election since I was age 18.
But I am "privileged, safe and utterly self-involved"?
Hmmm.... something's not quite right.
videohead5
(2,146 posts)With someone on this web site before the election...they said they could not be sure Hillary would pick a supreme court justice that would be pro choice.they were mad at Hillary I guess thinking she stole the nomination from Bernie.it should be said that the primaries is run by the AG of each state not the DNC.
DinahMoeHum
(21,704 posts)Tarc
(10,471 posts)to be made, by you, to contradict that.
There was a rabid, unhinged attack on Hillary from the Far Left, and it is directly responsible for the Supreme Court on the verge of being lost for a generation.
chesterslick
(33 posts)Don't you understand that Susan Sarandon is the most powerful woman in the universe?
zentrum
(9,865 posts)The Dems can blame Stein and Sarandon, avoid the self examination, not do anything different and do the usual things and be the usual entity, unchanged and fight Trump is 2020 with that and see how it goes.
God help us.