Post removed

[HopeAgain]

1. Get ready to be flamed for making sense

We should be talking about:

1. A living minimum wage,

2. Universal healthcare or at least single payer,

3. Employee rights,

4. Preservation of women's rights,

5. Preservation of civil rights (all minorities and LGBT),

6. Meaningful gun safety legislation and protection of our children,

7. Protecting public education.

8. Restoring worker's rights

And whatever other non-controversial, but universally popular liberal positions that we can. How do we help get the message out?

Instead, many want to revisit the 2016 blame game.

[beaglelover]

3. Everything on your list is now in jeopardy for decades due to today's USSC retirement news.

And yes, I do blame those democrats and independents who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary for one BS reason or another. They own our shared bleak future.

[HopeAgain]

4. Spin your wheels however you want...

[revmclaren]

26. Spin yours... you're views are in the minority

and getting less and less every time one of our rights or freedoms are lost. But by all means, keep supporting those who handed out or drank the kool-aid.



And dont bother replying to me... your opinion is less than s$%t to me.

Only! 2018 - 2020.

P.S. ..Fuck civility to all enablers!

[HopeAgain]

33. I voted for Hillary

I just don't understand why we are fighting instead of trying to bring everyone we possibly can back into the party.

So F$%k your s$%t A%%&0le.

[SammyWinstonJack]

76. !1000000!

[ChiTownDenny]

155. Let people grieve. n/t

[Chickensoup]

91. More power to u and all of us.

[Cha]

55. You're the one who's " Spin your wheels however you want..."

You're getting nowhere.

[revmclaren]

128. +1000000...

Only!!! 2018 - 2020.

[seaglass]

14. Independents are not a bloc. n/t

[seaglass]

29. Only 10% of Independents do not vote along party lines. I didn't say ignore Independents

as I am one (unenrolled).

The left that had the brains to vote for Hillary in the GE I am more than happy to unify with. The miserable unreliable fools who didn't know enough to do that can do whatever they please. I wouldn't count on them for votes.

[Scurrilous]

38. ....

[emulatorloo]

130. Some independents lean Republican, some lean Democratic. They aren't a monolithic block n/t

[machoneman]

99. Agreed! Sanders and idiot Stein screwed us all!

Just think, 25-35 more years of a conservative SC. Thanks alot, you assholes!

[Sophia4]

19. Thank you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. You're so right! Way past time to end the 2016 blame game...we need to unite & look to the future!

[dbackjon]

98. Clinton DID Talk about those things

There is no one factor behind Trump's selection, but Stein/Sarandon et al are one factor.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

107. Pretty sure we talked about all that in 2016. nt

[Squinch]

2. No.

[Me.]

86. Really?

‘harry (Harry Enten, senior political writer): The case, as far as I see it, is twofold: First, the number of votes cast for Stein in the three states that proved to be pivotal (Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) exceeded Trump’s margin of victory over Clinton.”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

[uponit7771]

6. You mean voter suppression works right? thx in advance

[Bread and Circus]

36. Of eligible voters is referenced in the Pew Research report, so that has been addressed I think.

So I think you are incorrect on this.

However, voter suppression is a huge problem. No arguments there.

However, was "voter suppression" magically not an issue in 2008 and 2012 but for all other elections before or since? Check the curve in the graph if you don't know what I mean.

[uponit7771]

45. VSM's in 08 & 12 did not match what went into law by 16. I've found no PEW polling on how

... was suppressed or not in 16.

How would they poll it?

The sampling would be all over the place

[lapucelle]

132. 2016 was the first presidential election following the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. N/T

[leftynyc]

7. Fuck that

The numbers PROVE that the difference in three states were the IMBECILES that voted for Jill Stein because their repulsive purity didn't allow them to think of anyone but themselves. We TRIED to tell the morons the #1 issue was the courts but they felt whining about emails was too important. The numbers PROVE that these people turned out to vote and decided their fucking purity was more important than anything. I'll never stop ridiculing them for their disgusting fecklessness.

[leftynyc]

15. Want to have another hissy fit?

Knock yourself out. I was accommodating last time and tried to understand. No more, I hope you suffer consequences that your short sighted nonsense hasn't even considered. Is that clear enough?

[nycbos]

17. I think the point is that people need to learn to tell the difference between an imperfect friend...

... and a deadly enemy.

[el_bryanto]

20. Welcome to DU

How exactly does a post lecturing people for failing to vote the right way increase party unity? I say that as someone who voted the right way in the general election but the wrong way in the primary.

Bryant

[Cha]

65. Fucking 3rd Party LIARS stein and sarandon Are Going TO LIE

and Do the SAME LIES AGAIN. So you Admit the LIES are what helped the Russians Rig trump in.

[Sophia4]

23. And what do you suppose could have been done to switch Stein and Trump voters

to Hillary?

What could have been done to insure that minority members got out and voted?

Hmmmmmm! Seems simple to me. But I am not allowed to answer my own questions.

I will just say that politics is the art of compromise.

[Bread and Circus]

42. Links please, because what I read is black people in Milwaukee and Detroit didn't turn out to vote.

Those were two dropped swing states.

That's consistent with what I posted above.

That's not consistent with "Jill Stein" voter theory.

That said, I do think there were Jill Stein voters and other third party voters but from the data I posted they pulled from both Clinton and Trump.

For example, % of whites for obama to clinton dropped 2%, but % of whites for romney to trump also dropped 2%....equally.

Yes, they probably went for Stein or another candidate, but didn't seem to tip it over to Trump.

Certainly not as much as the overall shifts you seen in other demographics that I've linked.

[questionseverything]

105. to be accurate...we don't know if the black vote didn't turn out

or if it just went uncounted


supposedly there were 44,000 ballets in Milwaukee neighborhoods with no choice for pres

stein tried to make them hand count but lost in court

racine county had a really high undervote in the presidential race also

election integrity activists are still trying to get hand counts done

I do not believe hc actually lost

and since the ptb will not count votes in a transparent manner, I assume they are hiding something

[xmas74]

129. A friend from elementary school said her son

Was given the runaround on where to vote in Racine County. He's AA and was proud to vote in his first election. She said a few of his friends were also given runarounds, even though they were all registered voters.

[KPN]

78. Hogwash. What you are saying is it had nothing to do with the number of people who voted for Trump,

many of whom were independents.

Blame is a loser's game. We don't want to be losers.

[machoneman]

101. Great and accurate post! I agree 100%! Morons indeed! n/m

n/m

[LanternWaste]

8. It seems absurd and dull-witted

It seems rather absurd and dull-witted to instruct people which concern to hold fast to at the expense of any other concerns.

Granted, a dull mind may truly and honestly believe ignoring A to concentrate wholly on B is the only available option, but the rational mind, the critical mind can hold two (or more) concerns simultaneously (no, really!).

On the other hand, if you yourself need to wholly and completely ignore one premise to better understand another one, that's on you.

[RandomAccess]

11. More -

Ron Baiman (Ph. D.): U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies.... (Affadavit)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210343625
Updated, Expanded and Corrected Affidavit Version: U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies Fit Chronic Republican Vote – Count Rigging, not Random Statistical, Patterns https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319205877_Updated_Expanded_and_Corrected_Affidavit_Version_US_2016_Unadjusted_Exit_Poll_Discrepancies_Fit_Chronic_Republican_Vote_-_Count_Rigging_not_Random_Statistical_Patterns

‘Shy’ Voters Probably Aren’t Why The Polls Missed Trump
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/shy-voters-probably-arent-why-the-polls-missed-trump/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.

The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.

We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691



Here is how they stole the election, well this and KGB operatives V Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/



23:00 6/25/2017
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/

The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trump’s shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation – despite each working independently and using differing methodologies – somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.

Ask any statistician and they’ll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.

According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. That’s not how numbers tend to work in the real world.

On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.


MikeFarb @mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit

Link to tweet

Ron Baiman (Ph. D.): U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies.... (Affadavit)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210343625
Updated, Expanded and Corrected Affidavit Version: U.S. 2016 Unadjusted Exit Poll Discrepancies Fit Chronic Republican Vote – Count Rigging, not Random Statistical, Patterns https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319205877_Updated_Expanded_and_Corrected_Affidavit_Version_US_2016_Unadjusted_Exit_Poll_Discrepancies_Fit_Chronic_Republican_Vote_-_Count_Rigging_not_Random_Statistical_Patterns

[CanSocDem]

28. Good additional material.

Hope it helps to quell this beast....

.

[RandomAccess]

41. It won't, but -

worth a try.

[Jakes Progress]

12. Pardon me, but that is some stupid shit.

And it doesn't matter what I want. Those that voted for trump will go to hell. But because of stein, sarandon, and their ilk, the rest of us will have to live in hell too.

[Bread and Circus]

43. Numbers and facts are stupid?

[ecstatic]

13. Wow! Whites are the majority of this country

and if we're going to finger point, that should be the starting place. Unbelievable!

[Sophia4]

40. But Trump "won" in certain states only by a small margin.

I remember the 2008 election. I was working election protection.

One voter, an African-American, proudly wanted a photo of him in front of his polling place with an image of his vote for Obama.

Hillary lost because of the vice president she chose. He is a great guy, but he did not catch the imagination of voters and did not win the election for her.

I may be very wrong, but I thought maybe she was hoping to get more votes in the South with her vice presidential choice, and he would have made a good vice president.

But getting elected is what should have been the top priority.

Several choices were open to her -- a member of a minority, maybe a Texas Democrat of Spanish-speaking heritage, and African-American (lots of possibilities) or obviously, Bernie.

Any one of those and her chance of winning would have been enhanced because she would have attracted an existing set of voters in crucial states.

Good lesson for the future assuming we are still a democracy in the future.

[ecstatic]

66. It's possible that she chose the wrong mate. But here is how I allocate the blame:

1) Bernie Sanders & his most vocal/celebrity supporters created a huge echo chamber (Susan, Cornel, Nina, Killer Mike, etc) They couldn't see that they were being used as tools by Russian trolls in the run up to the election. I personally know several black guys who were so disgusted and pissed off with Hillary based on the smears put out by Sanders' supporters combined with Russian trolls. Not only that, but the trolls etc., were making them turn on Pres. Obama as well. I tried, possibly in vain, to get them to see that they were being misled. For the record, my friends say they voted for Hillary, but it's hard for me to believe that based on the anger and disgust they had expressed prior to the election. Then when you add voter suppression and purging, the odds were even less in Hillary's favor. Nevertheless, AA make up 12% of the US population, so placing blame on AAs is foolish.

2)Jill Stein and Gary Johnson: Ignorant, unqualified clowns who were not qualified to run for dog catcher, much less president. They were there to siphon votes and disrupt. Stein was possibly there due as part of Russian meddling.

3) Russian collusion/treason with trump/wikileaks/etc.

4) The media: Issue 3 wouldn't have been as problematic were it not for the media who couldn't get enough of attacking and bashing Hillary.

5) Comey

6) Racism. Racism obviously played a role, but it could have been overcome by the pragmatic majority were it not for issues 1 through 5.

[Sophia4]

82. She would have won if she had selected Bernie as her running mate.

Bernie very enthusiastically and actively campaigned for her.

Google it and you will find all the articles on his travels and campaigning for her.

Comey may have been a problem but only because of the transfer of e-mails to a private e-mail account at Huma Abedin's house. I'm sure that all involved thought it was a good idea at the time, but they should have asked a cyber expert for input on the idea before doing it.

Russian collusion was an element, a big one. But the Russians just played on divisions in our country -- unless they hacked the vote tallies in some way in key states, and I would not eliminate that possibility. We rely far too much on computers in our elections. I vote by absentee ballot and make a copy of my ballot before I send it out. Let's encourage every Democrat to do that where possible.

Racism???? Not in California. But then California voted by a large majority for Hillary. I live in a very racially mixed neighborhood, so I am not as aware of that as an element in the election. I do know that members of minorities did not vote in large enough numbers, so maybe racism was a factor.

[ecstatic]

93. Um... racism as in trump energizing the alt right and KKK members...

NOT racism from minorities towards Hillary. Again, if you look at the percentages, every racial group with the exception of whites voted overwhelmingly for Clinton.

And I don't agree that Bernie as VP would have worked. It's true that many Bernie voters went on to vote trump, but I respect Hillary's decision to not go the gimmicky route and instead choose a compatible and qualified running mate.

[LonePirate]

16. Fuck Jill Stein voters and Susan Sarandon supporters. They did not vote Dem and can go to hell.

[DanTex]

21. Sorry, but your support of Jill Stein was and continues to be a horrible mistake.

I have say this, as I cannot stomach voting for a candidate who will lead us into another war of choice, I am NOT going to vote for Hillary Clinton. Not this fall, not ever. In fact, I will give money to and vote for Jill Stein as a protest vote against wars of choice, an increased police state, and the selling out of average Americans. I do not recommend you follow suit. I only recommend you vote your conscious and for what you think is best.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190

And yes, clearly, Jill Stein and the rest of the far left doing all they can to dissuade people from voting for Hillary made an impact in the General Election. And people (like you in that post I linked to) who spent 2016 bashing Hillary Clinton with lies also bear responsibility.

You should take your own advice and learn from your mistakes, or you will be end up helping the GOP win again.

[DanTex]

30. LOL. That's what you got from the OP's bashing of Hillary Clinton?

[DanTex]

39. You think Jill Stein is "looking to unite"? Really? Where do you get that idea?

[uponit7771]

48. Not this "independents" bullshit, we're more versed on that M$M meme here

[LonePirate]

51. The time for unity was on November 8, 2016. As of today, Stein voters are essentially Republicans.

They helped elect the current president and as such they bear the same amount of responsibility for the mess we are now in today.

[seaglass]

46. Thanks for the enlightenment Dan. The OP must have had a change of heart as some do

since those who refused to vote for Hillary are not welcome here.

[Hav]

75. I see no change of heart, so...

it's rather insulting to be honest.

[RhodeIslandOne]

61. Wish we could rec individual posts

Clearly someone doesn’t like it that the chickens came home to roost and it wasn’t a “scare tactic”.

[Hav]

67. Thank you, those who wrote that deserve the spotlight now.

Looks like the game starts again without lessons learned.
Stupid protest voters are a major part of the problem that gave us Trump. The deflections need to stop, you own it.

[Bread and Circus]

79. I don't support Jill Stein. I support logic, truth, and respect.

[DanTex]

81. Not anymore? That's good to hear. You're well on your way.

The next step in your recovery from Steinism is to stop defending her.

Because defending Jill Stein is incompatible with supporting logic and truth.

[Cha]

85. Then you blew it.

[RhodeIslandOne]

119. You did at one time

You voted for her. You admitted it.

Instead of issuing a mea culpa in your OP, you just don't want to hear from anyone that you screwed up, big time, and the bill came due today.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

25. No - fuck those faux-gressive rightwing activists

and they're still a problem - they just picked off a member of Democratic House leadership last night, by getting their fellow pal of rightwing Bernie or Bust and Seth Rich conspiracist Jimmy Dore in there

[Exotica]

110. Oh ffs, Ocasio-Cortez is not a RWer. Outrageous attack on a soon to be elected

Democratic woman of colour.

[lpbk2713]

135. Play a different card.

Race or gender was not mentioned in the post you object to.

[Exotica]

158. How about the 'do not bash general election Democratic candidates' card?

And accusing a PoC of playing a race card or a woman of playing the gender card when they are sticking up for another PoC woman, especially in a majority/minority district is the epitome of RW tosh.

[LiberalLovinLug]

162. How small a tent is TOO small?

I can only laugh because i've done so much crying. We are literally shooting ourselves in the foot with all this infighting and purity tests.

So not only do we not need any primary Sanders supporters, or anyone that doesn't hate Susan Sarandon and Jill Stein, now its even Democratic nominees that don't pass your smell test?

[Demsrule86]

31. No, not listening to half wits like Stein and Sarandon is the lesson. It is on their head that

we have now lost two SCOTUS appointment and their very stupid voters gave the GOP victory too...also Nina Turner the head of OR needs to be added to that group. Oh so it's the minority voters fault..sure it is ...not. The Greens gave us United, and two stupid wars, economic collapse and now they have delivered two SCOTUS seats to the Republicans and most likely another economic collapse.

[dhol82]

32. And she still won by three million votes!

[oasis]

34. Not complicated. Sarandon, Stein, Corny West and their ilk cost us votes.

It isn't as though skimming off a few thousand votes here and there was no big deal.

If we have to live with the decisions of Trump's SCOTUS for the next two decades, those who aided Trump, in any way, should feel the full measure of our wrath.

[Bread and Circus]

74. Maybe. But that's not what cost Clinton the election as least by a read of the numbers I linked.

The numbers show a huge drop of of AA vote.

Do you want to scorn them too?

The numbers show a huge drop of Asian vote.

Do you want to scorn them too?

...

How about we stop scorning people and starting looking at some facts and listening to people and see why the voted or didn't vote at all?

[SunSeeker]

137. Wrong.

The minority vote did not have a huge dropoff. It simply went back to where it traditionally was for Democrats before the first ever African American presidential was on the ballot. Blaming Hillary's loss or Trump's win on minority voters is wrong and offensive.

[get the red out]

37. Simple

What other candidate had ever been continuously vilified by all RW media sources since 1992? That stuff leaks out into the mainstream and eats into people's minds, even non-conservative people.

[spicysista]

44. If you honestly believe....

that the share of the black vote falling from 12.9% of the electorate to about 11.9% (about 765,000 votes over all) is reason why tRump is in office and not Hillary, then we are truly in trouble. Let's look at the facts.....all of them. Gary Johnson got over 4 million votes and Jill received about 1.2 million. Each one of them received enough votes to impact the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, and Michigan. Considering where the majority of black folks live and are registered to vote (for example, there's not that many of us in Wisconsin but there are a ton of us in Louisiana and all throughout the south) and given the fact that the vast majority of white people of all ages and social standing voted for the Orangeman, I would say that you beef is with them. By "them", I mean white folks. Not black people. Have you seen a tRump rally? Ever?

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

[uponit7771]

53. +1, "received enough votes to impact the states of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, and Michigan. "

THANK YOU !!!

[revmclaren]

59. .

When they try to baffle us with bulls$%t, hit them with facts. Time to call them out at every chance...



Only!!! 2018 - 2020.

[spicysista]

142. At this point, that's all we can do. Keep an arsenal of the facts handy and ready to deploy. nt.

[emulatorloo]

127. Thank you.

Apparently OP will say anything to avoid responsibility for his poor choices and the destructiveness his vote enabled.

[spicysista]

134. Yes, this is a terrible op. I'm not sure what he was trying to do here. nt.

[Demsrule86]

47. First of all I think this is a terrible post...and secondly many voters were targeted for voter

suppression....particularly minority voters but they came out strong for us...few posts have ever disturbed me as much as yours...you defend Stein while attacking an important Democratic constituency unfairly. I will despise Jill Stein and Nader for that matter until the day I die...I dream of seeing the Russian colluding Green liar in an orange jumpsuit for her roll in helping to steal the election for Trump and her buddy Putin.

[Bread and Circus]

69. Actually the point of the post is to show that your premises are incorrect.

You restating your premises do not make them correct.

The voter suppression argument is refuted by the Pew poll as it references "eligible voters" as the denominator.

[stonecutter357]

49. cool story bro !

[Cha]

143. Yeah, so cool.. and there's more to the story..

"I have say this, as I cannot stomach voting for a candidate who will lead us into another war of choice,I am NOT going to vote for Hillary Clinton. Not this fall, not ever. In fact, I will give money to and vote for Jill Stein as a protest vote against wars of choice, an increased police state, and the selling out of average Americans. I do not recommend you follow suit. I only recommend you vote your conscious and for what you think is best.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190

[MariaCSR]

50. NO.

[Bradical79]

52. No.

[boston bean]

54. NO

[NCTraveler]

56. Stop blaming the people who gave us Trump.

No thanks.

I’m am glad to see someone being so honest. It’s no different than Trump. A fascist minority making demands or they will work against progress. The most pathetic part is that these Stein/Sarandon people are in an extreme minority even when compared to Trump voters. That’s how fucked in the head they are.

[elleng]

57. Thanks.

And something about a few states that didn't get the attention they needed.

[Renew Deal]

62. Good point. I blame you

[standingtall]

63. I wish people would stop trying to defend 3rd party voters

This is America not France. We have an electoral college process to deal with. If we had a run off system voting for 3rd parties would be fine,but we don't. Either it's the voters fault who were allowed to vote including 3rd party voters who wasted their vote on a candidate that couldn't win for government we got or voting doesn't matter it can't be both.

[NY_20th]

64. If Trump enablers do not understand the dire straights we're all facing under

this administration, then yes, they get the blame for this crisis we are in.

The Democratic Party is not something you can place threats on in order to push an agenda that has been rejected time and time again.

If these voters aren't out there actively getting out the vote to remove Republicans and Trump, then they are simply enablers and not worth a damn bit of my time or pity.

[MadDAsHell]

68. What's more amazing is those blaming the "far left"

You mean the people who won us these rights that you’re now so “concerned” about losing?

Thanks so much for your “concern.”

[cynatnite]

70. There's plenty of blame to go around. Don't worry, they get a share of it. n/t

[marble falls]

72. Say bye bye!

[StevieM]

73. The exit polls misstated Trump's performance among Latinos. Here are some articles that demonstrate

that fact.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-pedraza-latino-vote-20170111-story.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/no-trump-didn-surprisingly-latino-voters-article-1.2944772

And it isn't reasonable to expect HRC to do as well with African-American voters as Barack Obama did. Turnout was likely to be higher for the first black president. But her performance was about the same as John Kerry. And that is impressive given that voter suppression laws have been implemented since then. She outperformed Kerry in states that did not set out to suppress the vote with photo ID laws.

And why would we believe that Bernie Sanders would have done better. The whole reason he wasn't the nominee is because she crushed him among minority voters.

[SubjectTrip]

77. She lost because of James Comey

And I've seen many Hillary voters who are more affable towards Comey than Bernie fans, which kind of boggles the mind

[standingtall]

87. It is not simply she lost because of Comey or Russians

or 3rd party progressive voters throwing away their votes it's a combination off all those things. Any one of those things not happening probably would've swung the election back to her.

[Trumpocalypse]

80. Those who fail to learn from history...

are doomed to repeat it.

Nader voters gave the election to Bush in 2000. Rather than learn their lesson many refused to get off their ideological high horse to do the right thing for their country. They think voting is all about them. They are self centered and spoiled little brats who rather get nothing that 80-90% of what they want so they can self righteously pound their chests to proclaim they never compromised their precious principles.

[xeodtech]

83. Can you say Kris Kobach

[Cha]

84. You're part of the problem.. You got sucked into voting for Stein..

You believed stein's and ssarandon's LIES that Hillary would be worse.. what are you even doing here?

This is your damn quote..

"I have say this, as I cannot stomach voting for a candidate who will lead us into another war of choice,I am NOT going to vote for Hillary Clinton. Not this fall, not ever. In fact, I will give money to and vote for Jill Stein as a protest vote against wars of choice, an increased police state, and the selling out of average Americans. I do not recommend you follow suit. I only recommend you vote your conscious and for what you think is best.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190

You got Suckered.. how you like it now.. jill stein voter? your trying to assuage your guilt is NOT working.

[BannonsLiver]

89. Amen

[Scurrilous]

90. Good catch Cha.

[Cha]

97. It's all DanTex.. I'm just running

with it.

Scurrilous

[Scurrilous]

116. ...

[Skidmore]

94. Explains how sanguine

the OP is and how comfortable with blaming solid Dem voters while turning a blind eye to Putin's dinner date. Will never forget that or forgive it as long as I live.

[Cha]

112. stein and ssarandon LIED their DAMN heads OFF and got

Millions SUCKERED in Swing states and now we have a documented stein voter here who Didn't Vote for Hillary.. trying to tell us it's not stein's fault Leave jill stein alone BOOFUCKNGHOO.

Skidmore

[Skidmore]

121. Indeed, Cha.

Much love.

[Cha]

126. Much Love to you

Skidmore

[Bread and Circus]

95. Like I said, the numbers show Jill Stein Voters weren't the issue. Numbers don't lie. Sorry.

[Codeine]

109. The OP should not have posting privileges here.

It’s offensive.

[Cha]

122. I know, Codeine.. an in you face Jill Stein Voter who

came back to tell us to Leave Jill Stein ALONE.



Only Not a Secret anymore.

[Bread and Circus]

113. What the numbers show is African American Voter went down and minorities

slightly gravitated a little closer to Trump than Romney.

In an election where you actually count numbers, numbers matter.

I tried to tell you guys this before the election:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/12511400972

I predicted the outcome, but y'all didn't wanna listen.

What I hadn't imagined was that

a.) AA vote turnout would tank

b.) a portion of the minority vote would actually flip for Trump.

Which is what seemed to have happened.

What I also didn't predict was that white vote % would GO DOWN from Romney to Trump

What I did predict and probably did matter was that white turnout would go up. But like I said y'all didn't wanna listen.

So now you have Trump.

And yet, you go ad hominem on me.

Shame on you.

[Hav]

120. You voted for Stein and proudly used DU as the platform to make that public

And now you have the gall to come here and lecture the posters here? To ask not to talk bad about the stupid rubes who got persuaded by idiots like Sarandon and Stein? Seriously?

[Bread and Circus]

131. You don't know how I voted and it doesn't matter either way.

If you want to keep on living in a fantasy world rather than looking at real numbers go ahead.

[BumRushDaShow]

144. HERE are some numbers that say "you lie"

These are the results of my state, Pennsylvania, in 2016, which has 20 electoral votes -

CLINTON, HILLARY
(DEM)
47.85%
Votes: 2,926,441
Running mate: TIM KAINE

TRUMP, DONALD J
(REP)
48.58%
Votes: 2,970,733
Running mate: MICHAEL R PENCE

DIFFERENCE = 44,292 <---

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/SummaryResults?ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

THIRD PARTY

CASTLE, DARRELL L
(CON)
0.35%
Votes: 21,572
Running mate: SCOTT N BRADLEY

STEIN, JILL
(GRN)
0.82%
Votes: 49,941 <---
Running mate: AJAMU BARAKA

JOHNSON, GARY E
(LIB)
2.40%
Votes: 146,715
Running mate: WILLIAM WELD

TOTAL 3RD PARTY = 218,228

https://electionreturns.pa.gov/General/SummaryResults?ElectionID=54&ElectionType=G&IsActive=0

Jill Stein's numbers here in PA alone were MORE than the difference between Drumpf and Clinton.

[Lint Head]

88. We need to stop blaming each other. We need each other to end this scourge.

We are diluting things by voting for people who will never win yet have good ideas. We should take those ideas and incorporate them into a single candidate. However that's done. It does help the political process to get those political ideas out there but a vote thrown away is just that. Why we're bellyaching our country is being consumed by a monster authoritarian asshole. This ain't just politics folks. People are going to die because of this prick. People have already died because of this prick. North Korea has not stopped refining uranium. Putin still has Trump by the balls and this country is within his grasp. When you have Republicans saying they admire Russia and maybe we should adopt a more authoritarian form of government, which they are saying, the American dream is up shit creek. The election is in the past. This is now. The past is coming back to haunt us. So let it be a lesson learned and not use that lesson to bash each other.

[still_one]

92. I'll tell you what those polls DON'T reflect. They don't reflect how many people the Sarandon's and

Steins influenced with their bullshit, that either had them voting third party or not voting.


They were given airtime to preach their bullshit, and God knows how people they influenced with their lies and deception.


Hillary is worse than trump was their mantra.


They sure influenced people here, or are you that unaware how many people here left because they refused to vote for the Democratic nominee.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104210


It didn't take many to be influenced by the way

Every Democratic running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the establishment, incumbent, republican, and those Democrat were liberal by any standard.

In all those critical swing states Jill Stein attained approximately 1% of the vote, just enough to cause Hillary to lose.


Sorry, but just like Nader in 2000, they can't run away from this, and as far as I am concerned they have blood on their hands.


They own this

[Cha]

136. Mahalo for that, still_one.. And the OP Owns This..

"I have say this, as I cannot stomach voting for a candidate who will lead us into another war of choice,I am NOT going to vote for Hillary Clinton. Not this fall, not ever. In fact, I will give money to and vote for Jill Stein as a protest vote against wars of choice, an increased police state, and the selling out of average Americans. I do not recommend you follow suit. I only recommend you vote your conscious and for what you think is best.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190

[NurseJackie]

138. Here's Sarandon telling us that Hillary is worse than Trump...

[bronxiteforever]

96. In November 2016 the choice was between a fascist and Hillary Clinton

Jill Stein was not going to win. It was a throwaway vote at the time the country could ill afford a throwaway vote.

As for Susan Sarandon, she better have her sneakers ready. When Roe is overturned in the near future, she will have to march to save women from their future as breeding cows.

[Blue_Tires]

100. I knew there would be some hot takes sooner or later

and yours is steaming like a shitpile on a November morning... Are you really trying to blame black voters for Trump?

I'm more than happy to address your non-points, but I'm not in a good place right now so I'd probably say something I'll regret...

I still can't tell if you're serious of if you're taking the piss, but either way I'll have to deal with you later.

[spooky3]

102. I'm not following your logic. 100% of Stein voters and Sarandon (AFAIK) did not vote for

the Democratic nominee. For all other groups you cite, the %s are considerably lower. So while every individual who could have but failed to vote for the Democratic nominee deserves to take responsibility and to be criticized, when you are talking about groups of people, Stein voters have a much worse % record than any other group.

[pnwmom]

103. The fact is that Jill Stein took enough votes in the 3 critical states to swing the election.

That's why people are angry with her -- that and her dinner with Putin.

And we will stay angry.

[mwooldri]

152. Should be more angry at...

... people who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 who then voted for Trump in 2016.

[ismnotwasm]

104. Fuck that.

Gonna blame them until the day I die.

[Codeine]

106. People like you aren't the whole problem,

but they - and you - are damned sure part of it. Is your pathetic little purity test bullshit worth what is going on now?

I’m quite certain you think it is. You still think you did the right thing. You’ll find some stupid-ass excuse to not vote for our candidate next time as well.

You’re just Trumpers with different slogans, and I’m sick of the lot of you.

[NurseJackie]

151. Allow me to respond to that. If they're being honest...

Is your pathetic little purity test bullshit worth what is going on now?

Allow me to respond to that. If they're being honest, their answer would be an emphatic YES! It's their own VANITY that sense of "power" that motivates them... no matter what the cost.

You still think you did the right thing.

Of course they do. They revel in it. They're STILL here defending Sarandon, Stein, and anyone else who smeared our party's nominee. They WANTED this to happen. This is the "burn it down to rebuild it" strategy in action.

They only think of themselves and their "pride" at wanting to be wooed and "convinced" that their vote has been "earned". Their "fuck everyone" strategy doesn't affect them... only the most vulnerable among us... only the ones who are marginalized and at-risk.

You’re just Trumpers with different slogans, and I’m sick of the lot of you.

You're not alone in that sentiment, my friend.

[tammywammy]

108. I blame everyone's that didn't vote for Hillary.

By most especially those that said Hillary would be worse than Trump.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

111. Yes, definitely complicated. But if they had not played their role Hillary might be President.

It is fallacious fantasy to assign single causes to large events.

It's a bit like the weakest link in a chain analogy. They were a weak link. Maybe not the weakest link, but a weak link that should not have been weak at all. Any weak link could break, as they did and several other weak links broke too (collusion, selling out or being blackmailed, weak election security, voter suppression, dirty tricks with social media and many others).

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

114. Jill Stein is a mediocre, pretty limited buffoon and Susan is a pretty good actress

who happens to be an over-privileged ass carrot with a highly inflated sense of self. But in the scheme of things neither one of them are responsible for the collective stupidity, narcissism and apathy that has blanketed this country for decades. I hate repeating myself but as stated earlier:

Stolen 200 election, 09/11/2001, the Iraq fiasco, the great recession, the Great Russian heist of 2016, etc, et etc. Nothing changes. What do these narcissistic pricks need to have happen, for them to get off their stupid asses and get involved? In the end what will fuck this country for good is the endless supply of apathy from a staggering portion of our citizenry.

[JustAnotherGen]

115. Black Voters for Trump/Immigration

For my journal -

Minorities 'increased' GOP votes for Trump.

Ties to recent post about blacks being the reason for Trumps treatment of asylum seekers.

[BumRushDaShow]

117. "if there is any demographic that "dropped off"...it would be the African American vote."

Fuck that shit.

WHITES ARE THE MAJORITY. Blacks are 13% of the population. You can't keep hanging your damn hats on everyone else but yourselves. We vote 90+% of the time for the party under the most adverse of conditions, including voter purges, closures of polls forcing some people to vote at a county seat, and more recently, some states that had the option - elimination or restriction of "early voting".

Some of you folks need to smack your Drumpf-humping brother-in-laws or parents upside the head and get their asses in gear so they can get woke.

[Bread and Circus]

133. Look at the numbers.

[BumRushDaShow]

146. Look at the numbers in post #144

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10799132

[Bread and Circus]

157. But you don't know where those 3rd party numbers came from or where they would have went.

Better try next time.

[7962]

163. Black voter turnout was higher, as a %, than whites in '12. Lower in '16

If more stayed home, their likely HRC votes that didnt get cast. And in Michigan, only 11k votes were needed

[Honeycombe8]

118. Yes...let's blame Comey! Even tho the polls show he didn't cost the election.

Or we can blame....how about the weather? Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's blame the weather.

Let's blame everyone but Russian-connected people like the Trump team and Jill Stein. We don't want to blame THEM, for gosh sakes. Not when the evil Comey is still lurking in the country.

It's time to quit re-hashing the old election, unless it's in an analytical article or post, discussing ALL aspects of the election, and includes facts, figures, polls, election result data, and the like.

[SunSeeker]

149. The polls absolutely DO show Comey's letter cost Hillary the election.

Her numbers dropped several points nationally, which was enough to flip tight swing states.

[emulatorloo]

123. Stop making excuses and take responsibility for what you did.

Voting is a civic responsibility, and one of the things we do when we vote is strive to protect the most vulnerable people in our country.

You gobbled up recycled/repurposed right-wing garbage from the likes of Stein and made your precious useless vanity vote without considering the consequences for your fellow citizens. You enabled a fascist.

You have the opportunity to redeem yourself in the future. The road to redemption is voting for politicians who can win and make a positive change in people’s lives, not self-justification and serving as a Stein apologist.

[Bread and Circus]

139. "Voting is a civic responsibility" and yet Asian and Latino voting turnout is way way under...

that of whites and blacks, at least in Presidential elections.

And I'm not talking for 2016, I'm talking generally and consistently over time.

Are you saying Asians and Latinos are shirking their civic responsibility?

[emulatorloo]

147. I am saying - YOU - shrirked your responsibility. End of story.

Stop attempting to shift the goal posts and stopped putting words in my mouth.

You fucked up. The good news is you can do better in the future.

[Bread and Circus]

153. You don't know how I voted so you have no basis to say such a thing.

[emulatorloo]

160. You deny writing this?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280209190

Don’t piss on my shoes and tell me it’s raining.

You fucked up. Own it and try to do better in the future.

[NY_20th]

140. + 1

Thank you.

[Ferrets are Cool]

124. I am SOOOOOOO very with you on this. I'm so sick of the looking back and finger

wagging. Making sense wont make you many friends here though. It is so much more fun for many to jump on that easy rolling bandwagon of blaming. Thank you for doing your research!!!

Also, we should be working harder on trying to stop the suppression AND the russian interference INSTEAD of blaming.
I have no statistics to back this up, but my feeling is that the orange dicktator would have won regardless because of the rigged ballots. Which makes the blame game even more senseless.

[Paladin]

125. Fuck no. (nt)

[liberalmuse]

141. It must be nice to be so privileged, safe and utterly self-involved...

...that you can choose to withhold your vote or not vote at all. It does affect a lot of other people, though, but hey, fuck them, right?

There are plenty of GOP voters, and they share the most blame for choosing the lowest common denominator by eagerly lapping up 40 years of right wing propaganda. Hell, they can't even form a logical argument, but those who knew better and could have tipped the scales and prevented this horrific administration share a lot of the blame, too.

Some people just don't give a shit about others because their precious principles are more important to them than other human beings, how it loots the public treasury and tears up our beautiful commons for profit.

Anyone who has lived more than a couple decades should be all too familiar with how the GOP treats certain human beings. And then there is the fact that Trump ran on taking this a step further. We knew by his words what he would do to LGBT, Muslims, Mexicans and other Central American asylum seekers and immigrants.

I say to everyone who values their alleged principles to the point where they will throw the planet and its sentient beings under the bus in order to uphold them, enjoy your fucking principles because they are meaningless when in the end, millions of people will end up suffering and the harm done may be irreparable.

[Bread and Circus]

150. Voter turnout for Presidential elections is worse in Latino and Asian populations.

Are you going to lecture them?

Just check the Pew Center poll and follow the curve, how can you not notice that Asia and Latino voter turnout has been quite low?

Are they "privileged, safe and utterly self-involved"?

I have voted for Democrat and Green (but only when I though the Dem was safe) Candidates up and down the ballot for every election since I was age 18.

But I am "privileged, safe and utterly self-involved"?

Hmmm.... something's not quite right.

[videohead5]

145. I had an argument

With someone on this web site before the election...they said they could not be sure Hillary would pick a supreme court justice that would be pro choice.they were mad at Hillary I guess thinking she stole the nomination from Bernie.it should be said that the primaries is run by the AG of each state not the DNC.

[DinahMoeHum]

148. TRASHED.

[Tarc]

154. I will, rightly, blame Stein and Sarandon for Trump every day, and there's no valid argument

to be made, by you, to contradict that.

There was a rabid, unhinged attack on Hillary from the Far Left, and it is directly responsible for the Supreme Court on the verge of being lost for a generation.

[chesterslick]

156. Oh Please ...

Don't you understand that Susan Sarandon is the most powerful woman in the universe?

[zentrum]

159. Thanks for posting this.

The Dems can blame Stein and Sarandon, avoid the self examination, not do anything different and do the usual things and be the usual entity, unchanged and fight Trump is 2020 with that and see how it goes.

God help us.

[Mr.Bill]

161. Actually I blame Trump voters for Trump being elected. n/t