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vlyons

(10,252 posts)
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:40 AM Jun 2018

It is a violation of the 8th Amendment of the Constitution

Separating children from their parents is a violation of the 8th Amendment of the Constitution.

The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) of the United States Constitution prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that this amendment's Cruel and Unusual Punishment Clause also applies to the states.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It is a violation of the 8th Amendment of the Constitution (Original Post) vlyons Jun 2018 OP
Yes it is SHRED Jun 2018 #1
Silly. Jeff says Constitution only applies to citizens. snark OhNo-Really Jun 2018 #28
He can't Judy Googly it? SHRED Jun 2018 #29
If only we had Legislative and Judicial government branches leftstreet Jun 2018 #2
Sad, isn't it... pazzyanne Jun 2018 #8
When Trump first took office, Lindsay Jun 2018 #3
Isnt it amazing how changing one word changes the intent of pazzyanne Jun 2018 #9
Well then that means that the old Republican argument Volaris Jun 2018 #18
I plan to hit Blunt and Hartzler over the head with xmas74 Jun 2018 #26
The party of law and order thbobby Jun 2018 #4
Why are our representatives not screaming this? SHRED Jun 2018 #5
Here is a wild guess... pazzyanne Jun 2018 #11
If you get case law on this literally nobody with a child could ever be arrested Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #6
Yes, but this is a misdemeanor LeftInTX Jun 2018 #30
Lots of people are arrested for misdemeanors- DUI, Assault, Domestic Violence can all be examples Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #33
They need to be able to locate kids before their parents are deported LeftInTX Jun 2018 #34
From what I read they are reunited once the parents are deported Lee-Lee Jun 2018 #35
Lawsuits will help stop this duforsure Jun 2018 #7
The ACLU is filing lawsuits - and needs money to keep doing so csziggy Jun 2018 #12
Thank you!! Duppers Jun 2018 #16
I finally - after years of putting it off - signed up to make a monthly donation to the ACLU. scarletwoman Jun 2018 #19
I just did, as well. kimmylavin Jun 2018 #23
Hey! Thank YOU!! scarletwoman Jun 2018 #37
Harming children to punish parents. Because they are not fetuses & almost none are white. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2018 #10
Problem is spike91nz Jun 2018 #13
Yes, this is what I thought. question everything Jun 2018 #20
This Amendment Is Never Enforced DallasNE Jun 2018 #14
GOOD points. Duppers Jun 2018 #17
Waterboarding was done offshore to avoid legalities. LeftInTX Jun 2018 #31
That only applies to White Anglo-Saxon Protestant People [AKA "real Americans"] neeksgeek Jun 2018 #15
I agree but someone please tell me... yuiyoshida Jun 2018 #21
Why is Trump claiming that it's the Democrats' law that allows it? FakeNoose Jun 2018 #22
Because he owns the Bully Pulpit. Dems are so very polite when we have it. OhNo-Really Jun 2018 #32
Isn't any single parent criminal seperated from their child? Nt USALiberal Jun 2018 #24
That child isn't put into detention also. shraby Jun 2018 #25
At this point, probably 5-4 "no" Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2018 #27
Probably not. Stronger case is that it's a Fifth Amendment violation. onenote Jun 2018 #36

leftstreet

(36,078 posts)
2. If only we had Legislative and Judicial government branches
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:45 AM
Jun 2018

they could do some 'checking' and 'balancing' of the Orange Anus Mouth's administration

oh wait...

Lindsay

(3,276 posts)
3. When Trump first took office,
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:47 AM
Jun 2018

the White House web site featured the Bill of Rights. But in place of references to people or persons, the White House version referred to citizens.

Because apparently Trump and his minions believe that Constitutional rights only apply to citizens.

And so far they're mostly getting away with that.

pazzyanne

(6,518 posts)
9. Isnt it amazing how changing one word changes the intent of
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:06 PM
Jun 2018

a statement. repugs are experts in using this techniques and naïve people do not get it.

Volaris

(10,260 posts)
18. Well then that means that the old Republican argument
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 02:11 PM
Jun 2018

That Rights come from Gawd has been abandoned by their party. Good I'm gonna use that against them every damn chance I get--especially when the evangelicals start in about TehGayz and Teh 'Borshuns. I'm tired of their bullshit.

xmas74

(29,658 posts)
26. I plan to hit Blunt and Hartzler over the head with
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:33 PM
Jun 2018

WWJD every damn chance I get. I'll pull up passages if need be.

Hartzler is over the phone only since her staff have repeatedly told people to leave. Blunt, otoh-well,maybe it's time for another visit to his Springfield office.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
4. The party of law and order
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:53 AM
Jun 2018

loves the constitution when they can use it to justify their vile policies. Loves the bible when they can use it to justify crimes against humanity. But, you know, FUCK the constitution or bible when it gets in the way of their evil. Hypocrites to the bone. Nazis in their soul.

pazzyanne

(6,518 posts)
11. Here is a wild guess...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:11 PM
Jun 2018

Ummm, they are not doing the job they were elected to do. In fact, they are in violation of their oath to uphold the constitution. Therefore they are negligent in their duty to the people of the United States no matter what "side" those people might be on. Believe it or not, the constitution is for all people in the United States, not just the majority party at the time.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
6. If you get case law on this literally nobody with a child could ever be arrested
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 12:33 PM
Jun 2018

I don’t think this avenue of attack will work.

LeftInTX

(24,549 posts)
30. Yes, but this is a misdemeanor
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:59 PM
Jun 2018

They also are not reuniting parents with kids once they have been deported.

What is going to happen to these unclaimed kids?

At least a child can be placed in CPS if a parent is incarcerated and legalities about the child can be determined via the courts. Here is it just mass detention of kids.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
33. Lots of people are arrested for misdemeanors- DUI, Assault, Domestic Violence can all be examples
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 06:12 AM
Jun 2018

And if you read up on what is actually happening with these kids- and not the hype- there are essentially being placed with the equivalent of CPS, but in a Federal system.

LeftInTX

(24,549 posts)
34. They need to be able to locate kids before their parents are deported
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 08:03 AM
Jun 2018

When a kid is in CPS every effort is made for them to stay in contact with their parents. DUI, Assault, DV put kids in harms way. Border crossing is more like shoplifting or writing a bad check.

Years ago, I worked as a nurse in newborn nursery. (County hospital)
We implemented a zero tolerance policy also.
Moms were given tox screen. If positive, their child was placed with CPS, but parents still had contact with their children. Almost all of the time a grandparent was given temporary custody. Every effort was made to reunite the parents.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
35. From what I read they are reunited once the parents are deported
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 02:05 PM
Jun 2018

What I am finding (and it’s difficult to find reliable sources) is that the parents are arrested and the kids go into care of HHS since they can’t go to jail with the parents.

The parents are processed through the system, given due process, and almost always at their hearing plea guilty to misdemeanor illegal entry. They are warned that the next illegal entry is a felony with long jail time, sentence given is time served, then they are reunited with the kids and deported.

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
12. The ACLU is filing lawsuits - and needs money to keep doing so
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jun 2018
Border Patrol Commissioner Kevin McAleenan’s Family Separation Denial
By Jenny Samuels, Editorial Staff, ACLU
June 14, 2018 | 5:45 PM

In an interview with the LA Times published early Monday morning, U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan set out to clarify CBP’s systematic practice of separating children from their parents at the border. Rather than provide real clarification, however, McAleenan’s comments continued the trend of Trump administration officials attempting to justify this unprecedented and horrific policy by spinning the truth and, worse, by making specious claims with little to no basis in fact.

When asked how CBP was handling family separations, McAleenan at first forcefully denied that an official policy regarding separating children from parents even exists: “We do not have a policy of administrative separation.” But, this is misleading. While the statement is technically true — the administration’s new “zero-tolerance” policy does not explicitly mention family separation — in practice, it is meaningless. Prosecuting every person who crosses the border somewhere other than a port of entry necessitates criminal detention. If a person has children with her, that necessitates taking the children away. As the AP has noted, “while separating families might not be official U.S. policy, it is a direct consequence of Sessions’ zero-tolerance approach.”

<SNIP>

There is our client, Ms. L, for example, who, despite following the government’s own instructions for seeking asylum — crossing at an official port of entry — had her 7-year-old daughter taken from her with no explanation. The two were not reunited until 4 months later, and only after the ACLU filed a lawsuit and a federal judge ordered a DNA test, which proved maternity. Then there is Mirian G., who also sought asylum at a port of entry, and yet still had her 18-month-old son taken from her for over two months. In that case, Border Patrol agents ordered Mirian to strap her baby into a car seat while refusing to answer her repeated questions about why they were being separated. When McAleenan cites hundreds of cases in which there was suspected smuggling, it undoubtedly includes stories like those of our clients.

<SNIP>

If the Trump administration’s real priority was to ensure the wellbeing of children, then it would not have ended the Family Case Management Program, which allowed families to be released together, but into a program that would ensure that they appeared for court proceedings. Again, this is not a loophole, but rather an alternative to family separation that prevented needless and expensive detention. Moreover, it was hugely effective: The initiative boasted a 99.6 percent appearance rate at immigration court hearings for those enrolled in the program.

More: https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/immigrants-rights-and-detention/border-patrol-commissioner-kevin-mcaleenans



Donate: https://www.aclu.org/donate-aclu

scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
19. I finally - after years of putting it off - signed up to make a monthly donation to the ACLU.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 02:15 PM
Jun 2018

So, I want to thank you for your post, because for whatever reason, it just hit me at the right time, in the right mood, and in the right financial condition.

And it's a great feeling of relief to have finally done something I've felt guilty about not doing for years.

kimmylavin

(2,284 posts)
23. I just did, as well.
Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:10 PM
Jun 2018

After reading your post, I realized that the same was true for me, and now would definitely be the time.
So thank you for that.

spike91nz

(180 posts)
13. Problem is
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:25 PM
Jun 2018

The immigrants are not citizens and in many cases they have not made it into the country. The right has argued that the constitutional rights do not apply to non-citizens. This is one of the reasons they are considering removing US from U.N. human rights agreement. Granted, Israel’s behavior factors in, but they want rights granted by authority rather than assumed natural rights. If no international authority and constitution only applies to citizens then they apparently expect to get away with inhumane treatment.

question everything

(47,264 posts)
20. Yes, this is what I thought.
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 02:24 PM
Jun 2018

Not a legal maven but I think that there have been cases when such arguments won - certainly in the right leaning court

DallasNE

(7,392 posts)
14. This Amendment Is Never Enforced
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:38 PM
Jun 2018

It should have abolished slavery, prohibited waterboarding and even the police tactics NFL players call to attention by taking a knee. Indeed, money has pretty much gutted the Bill of Rights.

LeftInTX

(24,549 posts)
31. Waterboarding was done offshore to avoid legalities.
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 12:08 AM
Jun 2018

Even then a defendant won a case against the govt.

Police tactics are a tough issue. Police can always claim they felt their life was threatened. They go to court and often the cop wins. Not that it is right, but it is difficult. In the immigration cases, they are deliberately doing this. No one in ICE is having their life threatened. It is not an emergency. It is cruel and unusual because it just too extreme for the crime.

As for slavery....yeah..I agree..

neeksgeek

(1,214 posts)
15. That only applies to White Anglo-Saxon Protestant People [AKA "real Americans"]
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 01:40 PM
Jun 2018

The president* has clearly stated that Hispanics are not people [tm]. Therefore they can be rounded up and split into groups like cattle. Besides, as long as the Second Amendment is left unsullied by librul corropshun, who cares about the other amendments? I mean, how many of those are there, really? Ten? Like the Commandments?

in case anybody doubted my satirical intentions here.

yuiyoshida

(41,759 posts)
21. I agree but someone please tell me...
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 02:25 PM
Jun 2018

Who is going to enforce it? how ... how?? FBI? DOJ? Trump believes he is above the law...and maybe he is.. I just don't know..does anyone??

FakeNoose

(32,345 posts)
22. Why is Trump claiming that it's the Democrats' law that allows it?
Sat Jun 16, 2018, 03:27 PM
Jun 2018

What can he possibly mean by that?

I mean, besides his standard deflection of blaming his enemies for everything he does.
Is there any US law that allows separating children from their parents, when the parents don't have US citizenship?

OhNo-Really

(3,985 posts)
32. Because he owns the Bully Pulpit. Dems are so very polite when we have it.
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 12:09 AM
Jun 2018

What consequences has Don been meted for lying to the world?

onenote

(42,374 posts)
36. Probably not. Stronger case is that it's a Fifth Amendment violation.
Mon Jun 18, 2018, 02:55 PM
Jun 2018

Civil detention without due process of law.

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