Perfect Howard Fineman tweet on Michelle Wolf

[bronxiteforever]

Link to tweet

?s=21



RE #MichelleWolf: 1. Yep: blunt, crude, pitiless. Remind you of, say, a president? 2. She torched EVERYONE, even #Dems, #Stormy, #media. 3. She wasn’t playing to all America or the room, but to her #Netflix deal. 4. She was INVITED. 5. It’s not her job to behave. 6. She’s funny.

[TNLib]

1. Exactly

nt

[mountain grammy]

2. Yes.

[oberliner]

3. A wise woman once said, "when someone is cruel or acts like a bully you don't stoop to their level"

[stevenleser]

5. Certain awful people throughout history have depended on that mindset

To give them cover until it was too late to stop them without unspeakable bloodshed.

[oberliner]

6. "Our motto is, when they go low, we go high" is not a sentiment you agree with then?

It seemed to get a very positive reaction at the Democratic National Convention.

[stevenleser]

7. Like everything else, it's not for every situation and one must understand

Those exceptions where applying it would make matters worse.

I am similarly anti war. But keeping out of World War II is an exception. There are others.

When they how low we go high is a good rule but it is not dogma.

[oberliner]

13. You are saying the Correspondent's Dinner is an exception?

In other circumstances, you would not think such remarks are appropriate?

[stevenleser]

15. Nope, not the correspondents dinner, Trump. He and his admin are the exception. nt

[MaryMagdaline]

23. Yes. When Michelle W is FLOTUS or POTUS I expect her to

Act like Michelle O. Until then, she's a free agent.

[gabeana]

25. I don't

but I do think Michelle is great

[LiberalLovinLug]

32. That motto would have been seen as sacrosanct had we won

But can turn quickly into hyperbole now that we lost. That's a sad thing, I'm not celebrating it. Its just a fact.

The other side has been waging against us with trench warfare, where anything goes. It does no good to stand above them in the open and wag our fingers as they pick us off one by one from their sheltered trenches, and then laugh as we fall one by one.

Unfortunately, we now must wrinkle our noses, look down once more at our nice clean hipster outfits, and jump down into those same trenches and get ourselves dirty. Its not fun, but its necessary.

[MicaelS]

44. No, I do not agree with it.

The RW has slandered Democrats ever since Reagan got elected. I was 23 when he was elected, and I am sick of hearing their bullshit with no corresponding pushback.

[RoBear]

45. Agreed...

I think we should push their faces into the bullshit they're strewing, and rub it around a bit.

Metaphorically speaking, of course!

[MicaelS]

47. I'm think of getting a T-Shirt made saying...

FUCK TRUMP and everyone who voted for him.

Ohh, they do make them. https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirts/fuck-trump-and-fuck-you-for-voting-for-him

[True Blue American]

87. For only $20!

That is a bargain!

[Oppaloopa]

60. True Thank You

[treestar]

51. Didn't work.

The election result shows what that has come to.

[forgotmylogin]

57. "Going high" is still punching. It implies you're already in a brawl.

What you don't do is crinkle into a corner and believe them when they say we deserved it and it won't happen again.

You sock the attacker in the jaw, then get out of the house.

[True Blue American]

86. Now you are talking!

Punch and walk away.

What offends me is the news media tut tutting about the insults, then showing Trump saying the most hateful things about others as if the Commedienne did something worse.

[sharedvalues]

64. Anyone who applies this always doesn't understand propaganda

If every democrat went high 100% of the time, the right wing propaganda machine would face no checks and run roughshod across America.

Those who understand propaganda and PR know that you need most people to go high while a few surrogates call the lies what they are. And the worse the lies, the more directly they must be countered.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

72. Agreed. "Going high" is the noble thing to do.

It should always be the tactic of first choice when dealing with "normal" humanity.

Right-wing authoritarians are not normal, they are sociopaths who see nobility, grace, compassion etc., as a weakness to be exploited. "Turn the other cheek" and they will smack it and laugh.

We as liberals/democrats have tried going high for decades and look what it has wrought us.

Fight back.

[ehrnst]

112. In a roast, where you have the opportunity to show power their own foibles

you do that.

[RhodeIslandOne]

101. That was before November 2016

It was nice cookie fortune wisdom when everyone thought Anal Cyst was not getting installed.

[ehrnst]

104. You think that Larry Wilmore using the N word at the same dinner with Obama was "going high?"

She laughed at that.

I don't think that she was talking about comedians - especially those who are speaking truth to power.

[Sailor65x1]

31. That's not a parallel

Those in history who required bloodshed to remedy were never concerned with the words of comedians in the first place.

[True Blue American]

36. You can go low

Without cruelty. You can use sarcasm, humor at times. But those who were offended last night do not know the meaning of humor.going personal is crude and rude.

Discussing Sanders looks was rude. But KellyAnnes lies are facts.

[pangaia]

68. From what I heard West did not insult Sander's looks.

I think a lot of people misheard 'facts' as fat, and "ash" as ass.

[True Blue American]

85. :)

[sharedvalues]

63. +1,000,000

[tenderfoot]

9. LOL

[oberliner]

14. Michelle Obama is a role model for many of us

I think we should all aspire to her grace and dignity.

[tenderfoot]

16. LOL

[Kingofalldems]

42. +1

[TheBlackAdder]

61. So, the comedienne at the WHCD should be like Michelle Obama? JFC, how provincial are some people?

[tenderfoot]

62. Who are you responding to?

[BootinUp]

75. infectious laugh.

[pangaia]

18. I understand your position, and respect it.

it is a controversial subject.

As for Michelle O.. She is not a comedienne. Michelle W is.

If 'we' keep bending over, we will continue to be fucked. It is well past time to fight back. When a bully senses weakness, he/she will attack. When one fights back, the bully will retreat like the coward he/she is.

In this case I am with Michelle W.

(Of course I am also with Michelle O.)

[fierywoman]

41. You put it perfectly. It was a roast, not a state dinner.

[dumdrum]

71. our options:

fuck, fight, or hold the light

[oberliner]

93. Thanks

Generally speaking I think it's good advice not to stoop to their level.

This dinner is meant to be in the spirit of camaraderie and good humor (at least according to the organization's president) - so I think a few gentle jabs, a la Jay Leno vis-a-vis Barack Obama, is more in the spirit of the event.

I'd love for Democrats and other progressive folks to have the reputation of being too kind and courteous - let that be our main flaw.

[SCVDem]

22. I agree, but,

First we must win the war for America.

Only then can we return to grace.

[oberliner]

94. I support fighting hard for what we believe in

I do also think civility can be as effective as being mean-spirited (even if its warranted).

[ehrnst]

110. Larry Wilmore dropped the N word at that dinner in 2016.

Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2018, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)

http://time.com/4313607/white-house-correspondents-dinner-2016-larry-wilmore-n-word/

I think that at a roast, the rules are different.

Willmore knew that only the conservatives would blanch at that word, and the rest of us understood what he was doing.

He was acting as though he and Obama, two men of color, were setting the tone in the room, not white people.

He deployed a word that was usually only used acceptably among people of color with each other. He gave white people the experience of being "outsiders" at a traditionally very white, very elite event.

I think that what Wolf did (at the same event years later) was similar - she gave them an idea of what it was like to listen to someone who didn't care about shattering the norms that everyone expected.

It was performance art, and it was Brechtian.

[MurrayDelph]

17. And a wise man once said

He who turns the other cheek will get hit with the other first.

[paleotn]

19. Oh, please....

like that's worked so well in the recent past.

[lunatica]

21. I doubt she said it about comedians or roasts

Because if they weren’t allowed to push the edge then there wouldn’t be any roasts.

[lunasun]

78. +++Exactly - a dinner roast - thank you

[Sailor65x1]

29. DU has the regrettable habit

Of constantly becoming what it claims to hate, and somehow internally justifying it.

[LakeArenal]

39. Yes

[John Fante]

54. We're crafting racist, misogynist, homophobic policies now?

When did this happen?

[D23MIURG23]

35. A wise man once said "I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."

That's basically what happened. It might be "petty" to say McConnell is getting his neck circumcised, but I don't think that kind of joke is what people are grousing about. The "cruel" ones were about Sanders being a lying sack of shit, Bill O'Reilly being a sexual harasser, the GOP running pedophile candidates, and Paul Ryan being a coward. None of that is bullying, it's all true and it deserves to be pointed out. These people get far too much respect - its all for the sake of decorum and not because they deserve it.

[SidDithers]

40. Your concern is, once again, noted...

Sid

[oberliner]

96. Thanks

We long-timers have to stick together - it can get rough sometimes!

[John Fante]

52. Is Michelle Wolf crafting racist, misogynist policies as we speak?

Did she attempt to take away healthcare from millions of Americans?

Is she splitting up families with gleeful abandon?

Has she attempted to ban an entire religion from entering the country?

Did she attempt to ban transgenders from serving in the armed forces?

What's that? No, she didn't? She only told dirty jokes? Then your point is ridiculous and invalid.

[The Polack MSgt]

67. ++++

[ehrnst]

100. +1000 (nt)

[DRoseDARs]

84. A wise Norwegian once said...

Alle nordmenn oppfordres til å vise ro og besindighet i denne for vårt land så vanskelige situasjon. Ved felles anstrengelser og alles godvilje skal vi berge Norge fritt og frelst gjennom denne svære krise.

Jeg tilføyer at slik som situasjonen har utviklet seg, er enhver fortsatt motstand ikke bare nytteløs, men direkte ensbetydende med kriminell ødeleggelse av liv og eiendom. Enhver embedsmann og andre stats- og kommunale tjenestemenn og i særdeleshet alle våre lands offiserer i hær, marine, kystartilleri og luftvåpen er forpliktet til å lyde ordre utelukkende fra den nye, nasjonale regjering. Enhver avvikelse herfra vil medføre det alvorligste personlige ansvar for vedkommende. Forøvrig vil det bli gått rettferdig og hensynsfullt frem mot alle landsmenn.

---

All Norwegians are encouraged to show calm and prudence in this so difficult situation for our country. Through common efforts and everyone's will, we will save Norway freely and saved through this difficult crisis.

I add that as the situation has evolved, any remaining resistance is not just useless, but directly meaning criminal destruction of life and property. Any civil servant and other state and municipal officials and in particular all our country's officers in the army, navy, coastal artillery and air force are obliged to obey orders exclusively from the new national government. Any deviation from this will cause the most serious personal responsibility for the person. Besides, it will be fair and considerate towards all the countrymen.

---

That man's name? Vidkun Quisling.

[UTUSN]

4. K&R

Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2018, 11:09 PM - Edit history (3)

[PatrickforO]

8. Boy, did THAT cause a storm.

But, you know, this isn't the first time the press has been called out.

I can remember Jon Stewart appearing on Meet the Press. They were almost genuflecting to him, because he really is a genius as a comedian, and he turned on them. Or, perhaps, like Wolf, made them feel darned uncomfortable. He told them they suck and that it is pathetic when people get their news from a comedian rather than supposedly credible shows like MtP.

We're so going the wrong direction...why? because the snake Reagan allowed the Fairness Doctrine to die and we need a new one. Look at Sinclair Media Group - a reporter working at one of the stations they own was silenced for not giving 'balanced' reporting on climate change. What bullshit!

So, yeah, once again a comedian has to tell the press they suck, but it isn't really the press, is it? It is that the lack of a Fairness Doctrine has made what should be the news dependent on ratings. The news should be above ratings. Because when they are dependent on ratings, how can we tell if what they are reporting is true, or is what they are spouting the 'truth' their corporate sponsors feel we should have?

We have left the shore of truth and are now being washed down the river of lies.

[pamela]

26. Re: Jon Stewart. That was Crossfire

And it was fucking awesome!

Only reason I'm correcting you on that is so people who have never seen that can find it if they want to. Crossfire was taken off the air not long after the Stewart incident so the young ones may not even know what it was.

[Pluvious]

30. See post 28 :)

[FakeNoose]

27. So right regarding the Fairness Doctrine

The absence of the Fairness Doctrine has changed everything.

I really wish Bill Clinton had reinstated Fairness when he became Potus in 1992. There was still time to nip it in the bud because Rush Limbaugh had barely gone national at that point. Faux News didn't even exist yet. To reinstate it now (post-Cheeto) will be a very big deal.

[mwooldri]

65. Why I get my news outside USA about the USA.

Well I am a British ex-pat so I'm biased. UK broadcasters have to abide by a fairness doctrine of sorts. I know that when I turn to BBC, ITV or Sky that the news will be relativey fair and balanced. BBC has more resources in the US than ITV or Sky (tieups with PBS and CBS), so they do cover more US stuff than the other two. ITV despite its cutbacks are still better for UK domestic news IMO.

I don't think the fairness doctrine can be reinstated in the US at this point. The only thing I can think of is if there was some outside organisation that media organisations would clamour to earn some sort of certification from to prove they do fair and balanced reporting. Maybe an Emmy award?

[Pluvious]

28. That moment when Jon Stewart called Tuckface a Dick

Edited down to a 1 minute clip, to minimize the torment
( wait for it... It's the last three seconds of this clip )

[True Blue American]

37. I remember Jon Stewart

Going on, “ Crossfire,” telling tucker and Paul they were destroying the country.

The next week Crossfire was cancelled. Jon did not dream he had that power.

His humor was funny not hateful.

[ollie10]

43. I miss John Stewart

[ehrnst]

106. Like when he had a gospel choir sing "go fuck yourself"

Did you find that equally offensive?

Did that set back progress for people of color, like you think Wolf has done with women's reproductive rights?

And did you see the 2004 Democratic Convention coverage, where abortion and LGBTQs were described in terms that conservatives use?

You certainly don't know much about the Daily Show now, if you think "nobody heard of Michelle Wolf."

[marble falls]

10. She was perfectly funny. It is a roast, after all.

[tblue37]

11. Good. nt

[SunSeeker]

12. She used curse words! Only men are allowed to curse!

[BobTheSubgenius]

20. Another great take on Wolf!

The Tempest in a Teacup scandal.

[TeamPooka]

24. A vulgar President deserves a vulgar performance. Michelle rocked it.

[loyalsister]

116. And the most vulgar wins!!!

Is successful opposition to Trumpism a matter of winning a race to the bottom of the comedic sewer? The jokes about Sanders' appearance are no funnier than the ones about Democrats. Joining this party legitimizes them.

[CrispyQ]

33. I watched it this morning & loved it!

The end, where she said, "Flint still doesn't have clean water," should have gotten her a standing ovation & this morning every news show should be talking about that. I don't have the tube on, but I'll bet Flint isn't even on the MSM radar, except in reference to Wolf.

Michelle Wolf

[ollie10]

34. So being Trumplike is a standard we should aspire to?

Michelle was whiney. Shock value and cheap shots aren't humor. She would have been better served to focus more on the issues and less on petty personal attacks. At the end of the day she helped Trump WAY more than she hurt him

[zeusdogmom]

38. I tend to agree

I’m not offended by crude or off color language but she she used so much of it that she lost the shock value of it. I was listening to an audio feed - she wasn’t especially funny or entertaining. Defiantly whiny - and have been around whiny 3 year olds all weekend. “Nana doesn’t understand you when you whine”😃

[tonedevil]

50. I now know not...

to come to you for comedy recommendations. To me she was funny and spot on. Your description isn't the performance I saw and as far as helping donald I don't see it.
Do you know and enjoy the "Roast" format? I ask because this was a pretty standard roast and some people don't care for that style at all. Anyway, we clearly have different taste in comedy that much is certain.

[ollie10]

74. Yes i know what the roast format is

I also know that making fun of a handicapped journalist was HORRIBLE. It is distressing that similar stuff happened last night.


We are supposed to be better than that....

Obviously Michelle was not

[tonedevil]

79. If you see Ms. Wolf's routine...

as somehow equivalent to donald mocking the disabled reporter we lack enough commonality to have a meaningful discussion. Regardless of how crude and mean her routine was it was a routine that is supposed to be a roast. Her remarks were delivered in the proper venue. What donald did was not proper for the venue or the role he was playing. Not to mention his remarks were considerably more offensive.

[ollie10]

90. Not everyone, nor even all the reporters, agree with you

The late night comedians roast Trump and Co every night. They do a much better job and don't resort to Michelle's tactics. She wasn't even funny. Just whiny and mistaking shock value with humor. Not exactly a big response to her "jokes" from the audience. Many were embarrassed.

[kwassa]

83. I thought Michelle was hilarious and on point.

It was a well-written, and well-delivered routine. You apparently don't understand the tradition.

[ehrnst]

109. I guess Larry Willmore "set POC back" when he dropped the N word at the same dinner with Obama?

http://time.com/4313607/white-house-correspondents-dinner-2016-larry-wilmore-n-word/

Michelle Obama is laughing there, so I guess her "we go high" was about legislating and political discourse, and not comedians at a roast.

[ehrnst]

111. Are you saying that her comments were as bad as what DT said about the disabled reporter?

I really think you are looking for ways to demean her now.

What is your issue with her?

You don't have it with Jon Stewart.

You don't have it with Colbert.

Just saying.

[ollie10]

113. I think you must have forgotten.....

I am not interested in talking with someone who misrepresents what I have said.

Need I remind you?

I mean, if it turns you on, keep on trying to provoke a reaction from me.

My only reaction, however, will be to remind you I am not interested in speaking with you.

Maybe in the future you will have cooled off or something, but let's call it a day today

[ehrnst]

115. You know that people can read your posts, don't you?

Yes i know what the roast format is

I also know that making fun of a handicapped journalist was HORRIBLE. It is distressing that similar stuff happened last night.


We are supposed to be better than that....

Obviously Michelle was not

You said that Wolf was no better than DT when he made fun of a handicapped journalist. Or were you talking about another Michelle?

The fact that you keep trying to deny it shows how upset you are being called out on it.

And you keep saying that you "are not interested in speaking with" me, and keep saying bye, but you still come back when I make a point that isn't very flattering about what you yourself said.

Maybe in the future you will have cooled off enough to just own what you are saying, but I'm sure you'll be back just as soon as I hit a nerve again.

Have a nice day!

[ollie10]

117. So what you are saying is that you are trolling me trying to get a reaction

Nice.....

Another reason not to take you seriously

[ehrnst]

118. You really are hostile at being called out, aren't you?

No one is forcing you to post here, are they?

Now go ahead and tell me yet again, that you aren't going to continue this conversation.

If you didn't take me seriously, you wouldn't bother to reply. Repeatedly. After you say that you "are finished."

Who can take someone seriously when they say, "I'm done here," "Let's call it a day" "bye" then come back repeatedly to tell the subject of their wrath that they "can't be taken seriously."

The trolling going here on isn't in my posts. The fact that you can't make someone else stop calling your posts what they are is your own issue. "Let's call it a day" is another way of saying, "STOP IT NOW!!" Trying to appear non-chalant isn't really working - especially when you accuse someone of trolling.

See you soon.

[ollie10]

89. I am aware that you don't see it

[ehrnst]

119. What is it that they "don't see"

that you seem to discern.

Please enlighten us.

[tonedevil]

120. You are going to stand by...

your comment that the routine by Michelle Wolf at the White House Correspondence Dinner was as bad as donald mocking the disabled journalist? Truly our perspectives are so different that there is no hope of meaningful discussion.

[ollie10]

95. Roasts can be brutal, but this one crossed the line

The bit about don't knock abortions unless you have tried one.....was tone deaf, counter productive and not at all funny, unless you think abortions are funny things.

[ehrnst]

97. Since you are unfamiliar with the Daily Show, you don't remember the week of the 2004 Dem Convention

when episodes opened by saying they were coming to you live from Boston, featuring: “black people; trial lawyers; abortions for everybody; organized labor; godless sodomites; and a parking lot full of egg shaped hybrid cars.”

The pro-choice movement wasn't "set back," nor that of the LGBTQ community. People understood that it was a mocking of conservative caricatures of liberals. Genuine progressives and feminists did, anyway.

The mindset you need to be in to find Wolf's deliberately throwaway comments Abortion funny was the pro-choice understanding that she is mocking what conservatives say about women who have abortions. You seem to feel as though you are the butt of her joke, strangely.

You seem to have a mindset that she was targeting, those that she knew would clutch their pearls to hear a woman talk about abortion not only unapologetically, but brazenly mocking their hateful, narrow misconception of the "abortion of convenience" harpy who lurks in their misogynist minds.

You reacted just like they did, and not like those feminists and progressives here on DU. That's pretty significant.

[ollie10]

99. If you would like to discuss with me, please stop misrepresenting what I have said or believe

[ehrnst]

102. Oh, so you aren't done and "bye"

Somehow I thought so.

You don't know about who is on the Daily Show, yes?

The Daily Show didn't tank progress for women with their abortion joke, as you say you believe Wolf's will do, did it?

You are "getting the vapahs" from Michelle Wolf's satire the same way that conservatives are, who tolerate much worse in real life from a real life president who is actually setting back women's rights. Yes?

Did Wolf mock a disabled person ? Did she ask about "blood coming out Megan Kelly's whatever" ? How about "Grabbing Pussy" ?

Your equivalency of her "going low" with DT misses her point as much as if you had been one of the right wingers clutching their pearls.

Yes?

[ollie10]

103. Have a nice day

[ehrnst]

105. See you in a few posts.

Have a nice day.

[oberliner]

92. Exactly

I've tried to make this same point and it has not gone over well here.

[ehrnst]

108. Did she actually brag about sexual assault? If not, then no

She's not being "Trumplike." And no she didn't "help DT" more than she hurt him.

You also don't seem to understand that difference between a roast and a political speech....

I guess Jon Stewart was equally using shock value and a petty personal attack, and helped Bernie Goldberg.

Do you still "miss him?"

[spanone]

46. K&R...

[raven mad]

48. I saved it. She was awesome. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

49. He's correct. My nephew thought she was hilarious.

As far as I can see, unlike her marks, she told no lies.

[grumpyduck]

53. I dunno... I thought the clips I saw

bordered on not funny, regardless of how on the spot she was. I think she could have still been on the spot, and more biting, with slightly different material.

Obviously I don't know if she or her writers watched clips of other roasts (not just WHCD) while preparing her material, but I'm going to guess that they did not. If nothing else, she did make a lot of people very uncomfortable and got a lot of press attention out of it.

I'll see if I can find a video of Colbert's routine at the WHCD in '06 and maybe a couple of others.

[John Fante]

55. Calling out racist fascist assholes with blunt language doesn't make you a

racist fascist asshole yourself.

Comical false equivalences from the usual suspects.

[arthritisR_US]

56. BINGO!

[DFW]

58. Agree with all points except #6

I watched the whole speech, and didn't laugh once.

[pangaia]

69. I was cracking up.. So.. different strokes, etc....

[DFW]

82. True that! eom

[gibraltar72]

59. She didn't lie!

[Pepsidog]

66. Brilliant roast. Thin skinned R's should shut the F up.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

70. Don't shoot the messenger. She did what she was paid to do.

At least she showed up, which is more than Donnie Two Scoops did.

If people want to complain about her act, they should talk to the person who booked her. And then that person should ignore them and book Michelle again next year...

[oberliner]

81. White House Correspondents' Association president booked Wolf

Margaret Talev is the person who booked her.

How did you decide on Michelle Wolf to entertain at this year’s dinner?

I liked the idea of someone who is not known as a political comedian, someone who is known more as a cultural comedian. Her brand traditionally has not been American politics. Many of her jokes are about the differences between men and women, but as you might have noticed, 2017 was a pretty important year to raise awareness and questions about the standing of American women in society, and in the media as well as politics and Wall Street and entertainment. I think she is an interesting person, too. She had all of these other careers before she fell into comedy.

http://variety.com/2018/politics/news/margaret-talev-white-house-correspondents-association-1202784143/

[colorado_ufo]

73. Didn't Trump say more than once that you should hit back 10 times harder?

[True Blue American]

88. So Wolf did!

What is the problem? News media bitching about Wolf!

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

76. So true..

They think it's knee slappingly funny when dt is doing it, but, get all appalled when they hear it from a comedian. These guys have zero credibility regarding taste. Buncha dt butt kissers. Trying HARD to look shocked and unamused.

[oasis]

77. I'm associating myself with "What He Said".

[pansypoo53219]

80. joan rivers would have been proud of her.

[Lunabell]

91. Joan was a rethuglican.

I'm not so sure she would be proud.

[Paladin]

107. Thank you, Howard Fineman.

Glad to see there's at least one DC journalist I can still respect and with whom I can agree.

[Timmygoat]

114. I think the WHPC were pretty weak

Compared to this piece of s**t president, if anyone has listened to just one of his rallies, everyones stupid liars, he calls every person he does not agree with stupid, and the name-calling, he needs his mouth washed out with soap. A kid who dropped to his level would get punished.

[Paladin]

121. The WHPC could have dealt with any problems in private.

There was absolutely no need for them to go public and grovel for trump's benefit.

[Gothmog]

122. I agree with Howard Fineman