I've read a lot of dumb stupid misogynist shit on this website over the years.

[boston bean]

I forgive anyone who has grown and learned how wrong they were for posting such crap. Hell this place
was MRA central for quite a long time and we lost many good feminist voices because of it being accepted here. I will never forget it.

No one is perfect and if we can’t accept people who have held wrong views and have changed and grown and accept them as allies we will have less strength to convince others who still to this day hold those bigotries.

We have to be able to forgive those who in their actions and words show they have changed.

[hlthe2b]

1. Exactly BB...

(BTW, I've seen some of those former MRA-embracing former posters on JPR when someone posted a link about something else recently)... At least they moved on.

[boston bean]

2. Still doing their thing over there eh??

[hlthe2b]

3. Don't know what they post over there, just recognized some screen names...

I hope they've not moved on to the so-called "incel" movement...

[boston bean]

4. Seems the American MRA exported their shit to Canada.

Remeber all the denials here that the Elliot Rodgers manifesto was misogynistic and that he had some points.

Yeah that shit was posted here.

[hlthe2b]

5. I most certainly DO remember that...

Not the best times on DU, for sure.

[Alwaysna]

27. What is "MRA" & "JPR" ?

[BigmanPigman]

29. I have tried to figure that out for 5 min and can't.

I wish people wouldn't assume we know abbreviations. I don't text and whenever I try to look up a simple 3 letter abbreviation there are 50 choices in the Urban Dictionary. It wastes my time and is frustrating.

[CTyankee]

31. i think the ME part is "Men's rights" but I forget what the "A" stands for...

could it stand for "amendment" as a reaction to the ERA?

[Sampan]

32. Agree!

[hlthe2b]

38. Deceased DU member, JackPine Radical had NOTHING

to do with establishing that site. He was, in fact, the antithesis of what one sees frequently posted there.

[Callmecrazy]

43. If you say so...

I don't go there much. I don't have an account there.

[hlthe2b]

45. I KNOW SO... as do a lot of long term DUers who knew him well

[Callmecrazy]

47. WHATEVER YOU SAY......

I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just answered a question.

So BACK OFF, eh.

FUCK! Nobody can answer someone's questions around here without somebody wanting to start shit.

[hlthe2b]

48. Most people here are not fans of JPR, yet you come here and say it is "better than DU"

wrongly state a much beloved deceased DUer started the site and then demand I back off when I correct you? Um no.

From YOUR post: "Although not perfect, it's a board that is better than DU in some ways."

[Callmecrazy]

50. I SAID IT WAS NAMED AFTER HIM...

He was already dead.
Read my post again. Then go away.

[hlthe2b]

51. No one who states they think " JPR is better than DU in some ways" has ANY right to tell ANY DUer

me, or anyone else to "go away" However, if you really feel that way, perhaps you should take your own advice. I merely tried to warn you of the well-earned animosity towards JPR on DU. (Case in point, post #49)

[Callmecrazy]

52. This is a discussion board and I'll say whatever I want...

And you are now relegated to my dungeon. Don't bother replying, I won't see it.

[hlthe2b]

53. You have no right to tell me or any DUer to post or not post, especially when you espouse JPR

as " better than DU in some ways."

[whathehell]

68. So if ''most people around here don't like it", everyone has to agree?

Sorry, but last I looked, people here are allowed to express a minority opinion without being trashed or 'censored'. We're not sheep following "group think" here.

[hlthe2b]

69. So you go to your next door neighbor's house and remark on how much nicer is the neighbor's across

the street? Nice...

BtW, admins have made clear TOS here. You might want to review it before you start promoting that site.

[whathehell]

72. Huh?..I've no idea what you're talking about

I'm not "promotingJPR" so you might want to review the mechanics of responding to the right poster.

[hlthe2b]

73. No error here.

[whathehell]

74. Lol..Really? Then do show us where I "promoted" JPR

I don't even go there.

[hlthe2b]

75. Glad to hear that...

You support for the proponent suggested otherwise.

[whathehell]

77. Lol..I knew you couldn't prove your accusation

and all that was 'suggested" was a tolerance for minority views.
JPR is not a Right Wing site, so saying "they may have a few good ideas" is hardly a TOS violation - Maybe you need to review them.

[hlthe2b]

78. Again, if you think the TOS allow for promoting that or any other conspiracy anti-Democratic website

YOU need to re-read those TOS. A website that routinely promoted Pizza-gate and every other anti-Hillary and general anti-Democratic conspiracy from the RW? Ok, if you think that is appropriate, roll the dice.

[whathehell]

80. Again, you've failed to show my ''promoting" anything

JPR promoted "Pizzagate"?...Can you back up THAT allegation or is it like the one you levelled at me?

As far dice rolling, I have no need to do that..You, on the other hand, may want to "roll the dice" on your theory of my post violating the TOS.

[hlthe2b]

81. You need only search DU archives. I will not do your homework for you.

Funny, thought you weren't promoting JPR. Yet, it does appear...

TOS does not allow for promoting Anti-Democratic websites.

[whathehell]

82. Again, I don't need to do anything..If you're so sure I violated TOS,

why haven't you alerted on me?

I'll give you a minute to respond before I give you the two probable reasons.

[stevenleser]

97. I wouldn't worry about that person, they intentionally misstate the position of the person they

'discuss' issues with all the time.

[hlthe2b]

98. thanks Steve... I had come to that conclusion...

[Alwaysna]

57. Thanks for answering.

[BigmanPigman]

41. Thanks, that's it.

I just read about it after I googled it. They are anti-Hillary and mention DU a lot.
https://www.discussionist.com/10151023494

[apkhgp]

94. First of all thanks for the link

Secondly I visited and with the way they talk this party is going to self destruct. Anti this and anti that. As well as talking about DU rejects. That kind of stuff is what helped 45 get into the White House.

[Codeine]

49. Oh fuck that nonsense.

That is a website that gleefully posted images of Hillary with a shit stain photoshopped onto her pants. That gleefully pushed the Pizzagate scandal bullshit.

Those people are pure fucking filth.

[hlthe2b]

70. Hey Codeine

I guess we have some JPR fans here (68)

Interesting, huh?

[Cha]

58. No it isn't better than anything.. JPR is full of CT

and hate on Reality.. pumping up trump over voting for Hillary. Real batshit.. the 3rd party Lying asshole jill stein is their level of competence.

Their ilk enabled the Russians to get trump rigged in... so no they're NOT "better than DU".

[pnwmom]

65. It is a nasty board that often supported Trump over Hillary.

It was formed before Bernie started running.

The real JackPine Radical would be horrified by what goes on over there in his name.

[Freddie]

56. Men's Rights Activist

In other words, misogynistic asshole.

[Volaris]

93. Men's Rights Activists and JackPine Radical

[haele]

112. MRA - Men's Rights Association. JPR - Jackpine Radicals.

Spouse was an MRA for half a second, until he realized that it wasn't about Men's Rights in situations like Family Court (he and his daughter got burned big by his ex over her lies in court, breaking joint custody, attempts at alienation, and the amount of SSDI that was supposed to be going to his daughter that she used on herself), but it was about "sticking it to those uppity wimmin taking our jobs and not respecting us enough"...

Jackpine Radical is a spin-off site from DU; originally "in honor" after a member who was a die-hard New Deal Democrat who passed in early 2016, it quickly turned into RT/Bernie-Bro central.
Mind you, I'm not dissing B. Sanders supporters during the primary, and think he has some decent ideas - it's just that there are some who are distinctly agitators for the "F*** any innocents or poor folk who may be hurt during the social upheaval, We Want Our Revolution Now - and we think have the resources to get what we want" types and refuse to understand how long term politics work. And those are the people one tends to find in JPR.

My opinion - the DU Jackpine Radical of memory would be disappointed by the blind political vitriol and egos searching for a cause that litter a site supposedly named in his honor.

Haele

[hlthe2b]

36. ...

MRA (Men's Rights Movement) https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement
The men's rights movement (MRM, also known as men's rights activism (MRA), masculism, or "The Men's Human Rights Movement"[2]) is a fringe movement which espouses the view that social, legal and economic discrimination against males is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves an organized effort mirroring that of feminism, and crucially, that any and all variants of feminism do society and the individual far more harm than good.

There are two distinct age ranges for Men's Rights Activists: group one consists of adolescent boys aged 12-16, and group two is mainly inhabited by young adult males in the early 20s to late 30s range. The most prominent MRA media and literature consist of memes circulated on sites such as iFunny or 4chan, as well as YouTube channels run by fundamentalists or, unfortunately, New Atheists.

Based on their insistence that men are held back by women at least as much as women are by men (if not more so), combined with a general adherence to neo-reactionary strains of anti-progressivism within the movement, MRAs hold the entirety of modern feminism to be an inherently unequal attempt to worsen the "already equally unfair" balance of rights and responsibilities between the sexes by selfishly putting women even further ahead.

JPR is Jackpine Radicals (website to which I won't link), full of, let's just say "former" (banned) or "disenchanted" grudge-holding former DUers, and probably various like minded initiates of various types, but with a lot of pro-Russian propagandists from time to time. I'm sure you can find site, if so inclined.

[sarah FAILIN]

42. I thought it was about mens rights in child custody cases

I've been called an MRA here while discussing fathers not being allowed equal legal rights to their kids but having to pay full support. Personally I think it should be equal as much as possible financially and custody wise, but nobody asked me.

[hlthe2b]

46. much more than that.

[RandomAccess]

55. Problem

Personally I think it should be equal as much as possible financially and custody wise,

That's SO dangerous -- to the women, and the children -- if adopted as a standard policy or guideline. There are SO MANY abusive men out there. And sometimes it's the other way around, not appropriate for the men.

It's such a big deal I hate to see a sentiment like that even posted anywhere, and usually worry about the background and OTHER beliefs such a poster has. Usually they're MRA types. Or sympathizers.

[sarah FAILIN]

66. Here we go again

What part of "as much as possible" makes you think I want kids with abusive parents ?

More importantly, what gives you the right to judge me for daring to think that 2 parents should be equals in parenting or even act like my other beliefs are in any area that you get to judge?

Don't answer. I'm tired of being attacked for expecting equality. It's only allowed for some apparently.

[True Blue American]

84. I agree on equal rights

There are both good and bad in either gender.

[Wounded Bear]

59. I think it started there...

because there used to be a huge disparity in who got the children in such cases, and was massively favored to letting the woman have the kids, whether she was qualified or not. Nowadays, I think things are a lot more fair about such decisions.

The current MRA has gone way over the top into being a bunch of whiny snowflakes complaining of reverse discrimination.

[sarah FAILIN]

67. I'm just talking about equal parenting

I don't even have a dog in the fight, but I see co-workers having to deal with becoming every other week-end dads when it wasn't their choice to split up. I've always been lucky to not have to face that, but I have empathy for all involved.

[BigmanPigman]

44. What????

Uh....interesting but not going there, thank you very much.... just reading your description/definition was enough to make me really pissed off that such a thing exists.

[busterbrown]

6. My First Reaction..

Is to tell them when they realized they f upped to go f themselves..

But i always end up telling them...Boy can we use your help now.. Thanks..

Some of the best push back on Trump is now coming from Repubs.. They have deserted Trump lock, stock and barrel.. I think they are more passionate than some of our regular supporters.

[boston bean]

20. I a mostly try to explain, then when met with hostiility become hostile myself! LOL

Sometime is is a lost cause in that moment. Others we sometimes see a change or acknowledgement.

[BobTheSubgenius]

7. The notion of "outside looking in" is one I had never considered before.

But you are absolutely right - many of these changes, evolutions, whatever you'd like to call them, don't happen in a vacuum. People wrestling with a major paradigm shift don't always have an epiphanic moment, where the scales fall away from their eyes and they see the world differently in the space of a moment.

A supportive environment, however passive or unintentionally focused, is very necessary for some people. The "evolution" part even speaks to that.

Nice OP!

[boston bean]

21. Looking in is a hard thing to do. It can create defensiveness

and sometimes anger. But if done honestly with an attempt to see another side a little less scary.

[NellieStarbuck]

8. Me, too.

Heck, I personally have to cop to having made Ann-Coulter-as-man cracks myself.

[boston bean]

22. Not an easy thing to admit cause one might feel shame. But in that honesty you are free!

Good post and as for me, I forgive and can see in just your two sentences you get it. Probably more than most and would make a good ally.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. You're one of the few people on this forum I actually give a fuck about

And by that, I mean you have a level head and have been here long enough to have a proper perspective as to how Democratic Underground dot com has evolved.

Well stated.


I have just been sitting here, watching this place implode over the last few years. Do the math on my years here vs post count and I am still around 3.25 per day...over the course of almost 5400 days of being a member, the point being I tend to read more than I post.



Shortly after I first joined, and we're talking back in 2003 or '04, I made a comment in a thread THAT I ADMITTED BEFORE I TYPED was inappropriate and "off color".

It seemed to set GD on fire, caused the deletion of a 50 response sub-thread and subsequently involving a few followup threads, etc. I figure I was lucky not to have been banned outright.

I still feel the occasional chill from that unfortunate afternoon's post.

People DO fucking change! Witness the love folks on here have for the likes of the Steve Schmidt's of the world. He brought us Sarah Palin, but now that he throws shade at Trump on MSNBC, he's a good guy.

The never ending "I hate this commentator (or insert person here) because he said something ONE FUCKING TIME I don't agree with" bullshit is just simply tedious and tiresome.

"No one is perfect and if we can’t accept people who have held wrong views and have changed and grown and accept them as allies we will have less strength to convince others who still to this day hold those bigotries".

No shit. No fucking god damned shit.

[boston bean]

11. I really appreciate that! I am no perfect angel and will probably never be.

But I do try to learn and have some perspective and do try to understand at all times that others are as human as I.

In that i try to forgive myself and cringe sometimes when I look back upon my own history.

I hope others do the same for me. I believe most would.

[A HERETIC I AM]

16. This is the lesson

But I do try to learn and have some perspective and do try to understand at all times that others are as human as I.

You MUST.

We all must.

That is the essence of being "progressive".

Moving forward.

I am, as my user name has suggested for a very long time, an atheist. But I try and live every single day, with every breath I take and every action I make or contemplate, the "golden rule"

How will what I am about to do, or am doing or have done affect others? Is this something I want done to me or said of me? Shall I give the benefit of the doubt? How would I feel if that person didn't give it to me?

Do unto others. Forgive. Move forward, always forward. Look to improve the human condition, not merely to find ways to condemn it.

This tiny little microcosm of the electorate, this DU.....is in the larger scheme meaningless. But it is a community and as such has responsibilities.

You're one, it has always struck me, that sees clear those responsibilities.

And FWIW, if I really wanted to blow smoke up your ass, I'd tell you how good looking you are, but that would just be Saturday afternoon Bourbon talking!!

[boston bean]

17. LOL!!

My love to you. Good egg you are!!

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. ...

[MaryMagdaline]

10. I agree absolutely. I was not always a feminist.

I see as I grow older they it was a character flaw. I despised weakness. I could not agree that I was a part of the loser sex. I didn't say these things but I came to realize how f'd up I was and how unfair I was to other women. Being here has enlightened me on race, gender and class. I don't want to throw anyone out or run them out so long as their starting point is one of love and not hate. But there MUST be a willingness to learn and change.

[Stonepounder]

12. +1000 For those of us who grew up in the 50's and 60's

we had a LOT of change going on that we had to try and adjust to. Remember 'women's jobs'? Remember having to send in the National Guard to integrate schools? Remember the 'days of rage' and Kent State? I'm old enough to have lived through all of that and at times felt like my head was going to explode as we tried to adjust to the change. I remember 'And the Band Played On' - not the book but as it happened.

If we are decent human beings we have to learn and change. Some things are easier to adapt to than others. Which things are easy and which things are hard is based on the individual. If we wrestle with the change and learn from it that's all that counts.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face.
1 Corinthians 13

3 If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luke 17

[boston bean]

18. Nice post! So true. These times we are living are some if the greatest

and the worst.

The struggle to hold onto the progress is uplifting albeit frustrating as hell.

The progress we may see from this is heartening. Ie the kids protesting guns, the womens march are two which inspire.

I was alive for the changes you speak of but too young to remember any of it. Nice perspective you have!!

[Adrahil]

13. Yup. And more....

People STILL freely make fat jokes about people like Trump and Christie, despite being told multiple times that at least some fat members are offended.

[boston bean]

14. I have done that. I am sorry.

With trump it is so easy to sink to his level. And I have afforded myself the lee way to do that because of well.... trump.

I should not do that. Thank you for bringing that up. I am hurting people.

[Adrahil]

15. Thank you! I appreciate it! NT

[rzemanfl]

23. Now that the FBI provided the Catastrophuck nickname for Orange Julius Caesar

I may be able to refrain from talking about the BMI his doctor lies about.

[Turbineguy]

24. One could say that for some

it's a matter of overcoming a lifetime of prejudice, inter-generational programming going back hundreds, if not thousands of years.

And this goes for other bigotry as well.

With some things, instant gratification cannot take place.

[smirkymonkey]

25. There are some voices that I really miss.

It's sad that they have been chased away. Hopefully they will come back someday, seeing that DU has changed a bit.

[mcar]

26. K&R

[Honeycombe8]

28. I agree. I'm getting tired of this career execution of people because of prior things...

unless they were crimes. I'm weary of it all.

At the very least, wait until it all shakes out and we see what's what. The Joy posts are being investigated.

[BlueJac]

30. K&R from Florida...

[rzemanfl]

102. +1 n/t.

[R B Garr]

34. Well said. I have noticed the blog/entertainment

turned journalist types rely a lot on the shock jock (for lack of a better term...) type presentations and might be susceptible to overdoing things, maybe to establish themselves, etc. Once they have a following, they may look back and realize they could have and should have been more measured and sensitive to others.

Great post, agreed.

[Mosby]

35. I like Joy Reid, for an msm tool she's OK.

But she was in her late thirties when she made those posts and did not have any problem with stating her vile attitudes towards LGBT folks just 10 short years ago, during that same time frame dozens of mra types, homophobes, antisemites, misogynists, islamaphobes have been TSed here at DU.

If they say sorry should we let them all back in?

[boston bean]

39. A simple apology is a simple apology. An apology given from the heart with an explanation as to why

they now know their behavior to be wrong and a real attempt to change has been shown is another more meaningful barometer.

Joy reid has shown herself to be a good person with regrets from her past that she is attempting to make amends.

So, I am willing to forgive those who understand they were wrong and who make the real effort in changing.

[fleabiscuit]

54. Pffft, this is an anonymous site, they could be back in already.

Takes a bit of guts to step up such as Joy. Nothing is required here.

[PatrickforO]

62. Depends. If they committed crimes based on those vile attitudes, then no.

However, I've got to say people change over time. Values change over time.

Long ago...well, maybe the 70s to around 1987, I was actually a Reagan Republican. Why? Well, my parents were, and my grandparents. Which was funny because in the 1920s my grandfather was a union organizer - basically a socialist then an FDR New Dealer. I think it was his second wife, my Grandma M, whom I loved very much, who was a right winger.

That said, one time I took this social change class (back then, undergrad), and the prof came in and said, "Hi, I'm a Marxist and I'm going to be teaching this class from that perspective."

I went bonkers. Probably ruined the whole class for everybody in it, because I challenged every...single...thing...the...prof...said.

Everything.

Now, I'm a Democrat in good standing in my county, on the Platform Committee, participate in local, county, US district and state assemblies. If you've seen many of my posts on here, you'll know (if you care, which I'm not asking you to) that I am now a socialist, New Deal kind of Democrat.

So you gonna kick me out because I was an asshole right-wing ideologue back in my 20s when I really didn't know anything much?

By the way, what is 'being TSed?'

[Mosby]

64. she apologized and I think that's great

I just wish she had done it sooner. I believe her when she says her attitudes towards LGBT folks has changed, but it's still kind of pathetic that it took her almost 50 years to come around.

"Tombstoning" is the same thing as "posting privileges revoked", with du1 and du2.

[leanforward]

37. No one is perfect from cradle to grave.

We evolve, I have. I have benefited from diversity. I have learned from diversity around me. Basically, some of the things I said and the way I acted between 15 and say 50 were thoughtless. Some of the guys I've worked with have passed because of medical reasons.

I fully support Joy Reid by writing this. I'm part of the silent generation.

[lunatica]

40. Purists of any stripe ruin respectful debate

I’m sick of them too. They highjack entire threads only for the purpose of raging at other DUers who they don’t agree with.

Many have develop heavy handed passive aggressive diatribes that bypass the rules and therefore get away with very insulting posts and they get a pass. I’m beginning to think about simply not posting anymore.

[PatrickforO]

60. Thank you for this.

You are a voice of sanity in the face of a movement that admittedly is overdue. Due process = good. Railroading on innuendo = bad. And if someone way back when, once, did something creepy, there has to be a road back (only if the creepy thing wasn't criminal).

[stevenleser]

61. I am disappointed with Joy. But I am much more angry at the "why"

and on behalf of whom this “discovery” was clearly done.

I remember when some unknown Democrat in Vermont announced they would challenge Bernie for the senate seat and within hours, That person’s Social Media accounts were datamined and some either racist or homophobic posts were found and disseminated.

Again, done in the name of the same candidate.

We should not allow this kind of disgusting behavior to happen without consequences for the person they are attempting to help by this action. Sanders needs to come out and denounce these tactics.

If Reid hadnt been opposed to Sanders candidacy, this information doesn’t get unearthed and publicized. And to your point, if she has since evolved, what good does it do the LGBT community to unearth this now? If someone posted misogynistic or anti Semitic or racist stuff 12 years ago but no longer believes any of that and has done a 180, does it help women or the Jewish or Black communities to unearth that information? No of course not.

This wasnt about helping the LGBT community and that’s my point.

[Tarheel_Dem]

71. +1. Anyone who opposes said candidate, must be destroyed, at ANY cost.

[David__77]

79. Yes, unearthing anti-gay statements can help.

That’s my opinion.

I understand that this can be a form of opposition research. I also am interested in leaders’ past and present viewpoint and their personal integrity.

[stevenleser]

83. Pretty unconvincing rationalization that ignores the "why" of this situation

I’ve watched this stuff unfold for the last 3 years since Sanders originally announced his candidacy. The folks making most of these accusation on Sanders’ behalf are not interested in issues of equality.

Folks making antisemitism accusations here on Sanders’ behalf are folks I’ve never seen in the Jewish forum here and are folks who, once engaged, clearly know nothing about antisemitism or Jewish issues. Folks making accusations of homophobia are folks I’ve never seen in the LGBT forum here.

Again, these accusations are not being made to help those communities, and it is very troubling behavior. One wonders what would happen if Sanders or someone from his position in the political spectrum were actually in power here. Would his administration make a point of attempting to destroy his opponents this way once they had control of the security apparatus of the country?

[David__77]

85. I don't see opposition research as a new thing.

What position in the political spectrum do you refer to? Sanders votes very similarly in the Senate to a number of Democratic senators.

[stevenleser]

86. Thank you for confirming that this is how a slice of Sanders supporters view this

This is just standard opposition research to you guys.

[David__77]

87. I am an Obama supporter.

...

[stevenleser]

88. Yes and the sky is blue. Are there any other irrelevant pieces of information

We should throw out to distract from the fact that you can’t find a way to excuse the behavior?

[David__77]

89. The behavior of searching someone's publicly available blogs?

The behavior of publicizing what is found on someone's publicly available blogs?

[Voltaire2]

92. The horrors.

[Voltaire2]

91. The alleged democratic challenger was a nut job

and a blatant homophobe. No “data mining” was required as his bizarre opinions and bigoted bullshit were all out there on display. The only thing funny going on was people trying to defend him here.

[stevenleser]

96. The nut job and prejudice are probably true. But again, a certain segment of Sanders supporters

datamined their social media posts to try to destroy him because he opposed Bernie.

You can try to split hairs over whether that constitutes data mining or not, but it is a pattern.

Nor are Joy and his erstwhile senate opponent the only examples. There are MANY more. Again, this is a pattern of behavior and it is not acceptable.

[tonedevil]

100. So what?

Someone announced their intention to run for public office and other people "data mine" things the announced candidate put on public forums. Are we supposed to see this as miscreant behavior? I don't.

[stevenleser]

101. Yes, it's miscreant behavior, particularly when it is directed at Joy and various other people as

well.

I want to be clear, you think this is OK, right?

[tonedevil]

104. I certainly think that...

searching for and disseminating things that an announced candidate for public office has publicly posted, published, or said is legitimate.
As for Ms. Reid, I suspect the revelations were unearthed to harm her and they seem gratuitous. That said, I am unable to fathom her saying her blog was hacked without solid proof. Having that claim hanging out there is damaging her credibility.

[David__77]

105. How is it gratuitous?

...

[Voltaire2]

106. I love how you just shifted right away from the homophobic nutjob to Joy.

You raised 'data mining' this creep as an example of wrong behavior, please defend that.

[stevenleser]

108. Shifted from Joy? How about you try rereading the OP again to remind yourself what all this is about

Then come back to me.

[Voltaire2]

110. Um Steve, you brought up Jon Svitasky.

Now you seem to want to run away from your odd interjection of this indefensible bigot into this thread. Not surprising, it doesn’t help Reid a all.

[stevenleser]

111. Um yes, as another example of what was done to Joy. There are other examples

they are all part of the conversation here.

[Voltaire2]

113. So we are back to my issue.

Are you seriously objecting to the exposure of Jon’s public and extensive bigotry?

[David__77]

95. Do you not like finding and disseminating candidates' "racist or homophobic posts?"

According to this Burlington Free Press article, a challenger to Bernie Sanders said specific things about an "in your face" gay rights movement - what is wrong with finding and disseminating that?:

https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/02/sanders-challenger-ends-u-s-senate-campaign/532515001/

I imagine that the posters here who were supportive of this challenger may have liked to know the statements the candidate made: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029301163

I'm sure people might take it as a public service to be made aware of candidates' statements.

[stevenleser]

99. No, I don't like discovering that people are bigots. And I am not happy when thats a part of a

campaign. I would much rather discuss the merits of positions. It is a necessary evil to discover if someone is a bigot. I think there is something wrong with people who like finding that out. I would be quite happy if I never found out that another candidate was a bigot again because none of them were.

That is clearly not how those who datamined Joy's posts and Sanders erstwhile senate opponent feel about it. It is something they relish doing to destroy the opponents of Sanders, and they view it as a legitimate campaign tactic to find whatever they can to destroy anyone who criticize him.

So let's be clear, you are defending that and you like that?

[David__77]

103. Unearthing anti-gay statements can help.

...

[Voltaire2]

107. what?

Somebody decides to run in our party's primary and we should not care about the fact that the person is a bigot?

[stevenleser]

109. Reread my post again and see if you can respond to what I actually wrote instead of a straw man. nt

[backtoblue]

63. Kick and rec

[greymattermom]

76. Years ago

folks would smoke, right in front of you, without asking, and even at work in places you couldn't leave. They all need to be called out on that. It's wrong, it's gross, how could they have ever done that?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

90. Totally. If the person demonstrates growth, yes.

Boy I remember those good ol’ times. Yeesh!


I was fizzfuzz, if you remember? I got tombstoned for calling out Sexism too often, too. Like a bunch of other smart women. Real progressives, since we could see way ahead of the curve, which has been rising more slowly, on average. And now the sudden spike in awareness. Really fantastic, to me. Amazing when a big shift happens.

Ha, this shift in awareness of Women’s human rights will probably be minimized itself, for a long time... heh. 😏