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(6,916 posts)oasis
(49,466 posts)raging moderate
(4,317 posts)Good shot, brother.
Cha
(297,975 posts)history as the crooked ass slimeball who wanted to kill as many poor people as he could while sucking off the government.
FakeNoose
(32,866 posts)Chances are that Ryan's firing of the Chaplain hasn't been mentioned on Faux News.
Certainly they'll never say that he was fired for political reasons.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)not an Ayn Rand worshipping repuglinazi bircher.
Honest.
RainCaster
(10,944 posts)Jesuits believe and follow Jesus' teachings on humility and serving others. Ryan believes that that unfortunate are there to be his toilet paper.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)But there are some very good Jesuits, I agree. Brainy, vow of poverty, can do spirit, long term plans, etc.
dalton99a
(81,683 posts)and carried his own luggage
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)True Blue American
(17,995 posts)React to Ryan?
I left a Protestant Church that preached hate and bigotry.
Now attend one that preaches ❤️ and following in the footsteps of Jesus. No room there for hate.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Athiests, Nativist, groups and individuals too.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Been almost across the street from me for years, but the young Pastors are turning the teachings around.
Once a year they bring in Pastors from other Denominations to show wgphat we have in common, forget the differences that are man made.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)I think.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)the equivalent to Protestant's prosperity gospel? Not very familiar with Catholic theology, but Paul Ryan's Ayn Randian thinking would seem to contradict it's teachings.
Being raised an old-fashioned Southern Baptist in the 50s/60s, I'm still in total shock over the prosperity gospel thinking, as it's totally contradictory to what I was taught. In this day and age, I suppose any religion or human belief structure is subject to corruption.
The good people that raised me were Great Depression era folks, so humility and unselfishness was built into the culture.
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treestar
(82,383 posts)Raised Catholic and we had a "liberal" church, because they actually played guitar music (oh horror!) and for a while took the position they did not need a fancy building and met in a high school auditorium.
I don't recall anything of the kind, and would doubt you would hear anything about making it good in "this world." It surprises me that any preacher would talk about it.
And yes Ryan's Ayn Rand fixation is completely inconsistent. She argued selfishness made everyone do what was best for them, and no where in the gospel do you get close to that. I could see the free market thing and that is a part of it, but he could cite others rather than Ayn. And Ayn on abortion one would think would horrify him.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2018, 09:15 AM - Edit history (2)
the pre-John XXIII pre-Vatican 2 days. Too much of the music is old latin dirges.
My cross to bear.
I noticed that Ryan-Rand thing too. He 'loves' the unborn, so he forces the mom to bear them, though his hero Ayn was pro-choice. (And anti-religion, and pro selfishness.) (And anti-social safety net, until she got on to the US social safety net.) After the unborn is born, he wants the little welfare fraud to starve, time to toss out all his love for the baby and go full Ayn Rand budget evisceration on any thing that will keep the kid alive. He's a 'devout catholic', then switches with lighning speed to his devout Ayn Rand worshipper mode of existence. Freak.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Showed the Church in the 1300's, where the Inquisition was laying in wait to bring down the Franciscans for their vow of poverty, while the Dominicans wanted to show Jesus crucified with a money bag, in other words Jesus carried around a wallet. Brought in the Pope and Anti-Pope, Frederick the great, Avignon instead of Rome as the center of Catholicism. Really interesting.
Opus Dei is the worst sect, the nazi gang. The catholic section of the ratline that helped nazis get away after they lost WWII.
I think the prosperity gospel is a bircher concept, promoted by the Hunt family (dallas). But there are a ton of rich catholics who are dipshits that think god wants them to be super rich, because they're 'so virtuous'.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Was a young Pastor in training that spoke about how so many think of God in Silver and Gold terms, priceless images that are in no way showing God.
He spoke of the present and how Paul and others shared many of the concerns of today.
Man has turned God into those symbols that have nothing to do with who God is.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)predilection to spend a ton of money on expensive marble, gilt, wood, etc.
"I live in the shit, I don't have to go worship in it." But those contracts for all that expensive stuff are going to certain people. That's where all the money is going. Daily version of Roberto Calvi occurring.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)I may try the book instead, as I don't have a DVD player hooked up at this time. The description I see on Amazon sounds really interesting!
You're right - human hubris, selfishness and greed is not unique to any race, creed or religion. However, making greed an integral part of any theology is completely new and bizarre to me - based on my exposure around 50 years ago in my youth.
The shift in part of our culture seems to parallel the worship of the markets (and market people like CEOs) by everyday working folks that I saw change in the 80s and 90s. Prior to that shift - at least in my small circle of society - the attitude toward corporations and Wall Street was quite suspicious and generally negative.
It also parallels the shifts in the marketing of the Republican Party, as race bating, tax and government resentment took off like a rocket via Faux News and talk radio.
Although I'm not involved with religion any longer, I do feel our society would benefit greatly if the congregants in our churches could insist on reorienting their theology back toward the original unselfish principles. Not too encouraged that it will happen, though.
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Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 29, 2018, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)
One thing from the movie, though, that is obscured in the book: in the effort to suppress pre christian book knowledge by the catholic hierarchy, they and the rank and file went towards superstition and the inquisition, tried to find the devil's hand in the violence and death that was occurring at the book creating monastery, and inadvertently began making the seven signs of the apocalypse manifest themselves, in the monastery.
About the congregants re-orienting themselves, they won't get away with anything truly appalling while I'm around as a public witness. And at least for that hour, the recalcitrant ones are off the streets and out of trouble.
That market worship skipped steel, auto, and textile areas in the '80's, when they were after all getting crushed by the market, but the rise of employee donation to stock driven mutual funds might have promoted the working peoples' more active rooting for the market later than that. Put an end to proxy voting activism, diluted the clout of stock boycotts, etc. Raygun wiped out the savings of the blue collar people, presided in changing the US from a creditor nation into the biggest debtor nation in the world. The hard times he forced on people resulted in a 500% increase in consumer credit debt. His admin pushed a huge increase in stock growth via speculation, and possibly people started getting into and concerned about the market because they saw all 3 of their retirement strategies getting pulled out from under them, and wanted to provide for their retirement future in a way that didn't involve the pre-depression model of 'go die in a ditch'. Raygun was attacking social security, wiping out everyone's savings, and presiding over huge defaults in employer held retirement plans.
I'm telling you, though, the birchers are the ones behind supply side jesus, prosperity gospel, old testament wrath revival, dominionists, etc. They couldn't use mainline protestantism for their goals, so they warped religion to be more to their liking, a more apt tool.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)The priest said something Ryan didn't like so he goes all tRump and fires him.
Fuck off Eddie Munster!
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)Ryan would have shown some of this "tough guy" fortitude on the bills they pushed through Congress that actually mattered to the poor and needy.
No, no "tough" Paul Ryan then. That's when the "where should I kiss your ass, Mr. Trump, and for how long?" Paul Ryan was in attendance.
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Fritz Walter
(4,292 posts)A couple of years ago, Celia Wexler described what that term means:
Back then, an archbishop used that term to denigrate Tim Kaine when he was candidate for Vice President. Wonder if that same cleric would use that term on Ryan now...
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)See: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/incoming-pro-life-chair-to-keynote-national-catholic-prayer-breakfast-67242?platform=hootsuite
(snip)
The archbishop has drawn attention for bold statements on cultural issues. Naumann has spearheaded efforts to restrict abortion in Kansas, and is well-known for challenging Catholic politicians espousing pro-choice positions.
Last year, he cut ties with the Girl Scouts, saying that the organization was no longer a compatible partner in helping us form young women with the virtues and values of the Gospel. Parishes were instead encouraged to start troops of American Heritage Girls, an alternative scouting organization.
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Why do we humans continue to support such relics as this guy? I suppose he's the exact opposite to a "Cafeteria Catholic".
Thanks for the post.......
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)I have to confess, I don't like what the leadership has done to cheapen the production of girl scout cookies.
But I buy them all the time, because seeing how mad the Girl Scouts make the nazis, just by existing and trying to live their lives fully, makes me want to support them all the more. Their very existence is a large f.u. to all the jag offs I hate anyway. They're saving me time and breath just by existing, so I back them.
MyOwnPeace
(16,951 posts)Now I KNOW you're from "Da Burg" - "jag offs!"
"Go, Stillers!"
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Jag-off is spreading around. I've heard Sam Bee use it, Bill Murray used it, Robert DeNiro used it. No doubt it started around here first, though.
In the past, decades ago, any time I called anybody it in New England, New York, Or CA, they'd just blink at me.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Half a garage full of things, both new and old for their garage sale in my
Church parking lot.
I know how much my Grandson learned about the honor Boy Scouts stand for and the influence they have on our young.
This helps them take trips, even survival techniques they learn. I am proud of those Scoutmasters and their helpers.
Reminds me of what our country really is.
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)That gang of successful 'scouts' that dRUmp had around him, when he decided to get his stink on the scouts, don't fall into the good category. Tillerson, Zinke, Perry, hoo boy.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)My personal favorite "burr-in-the-saddle" for the right wing is Planned Parenthood, and I send them some change as often as I can.
............
Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Not big money, but we're blue collar. Still, I'm with you on the pro-Choice issue upsetting the righties, who are using religion in a thinly veiled way to codify their fear and hate of women.
You and I could go broke giving to everybody that upsets those dumkopfs. Have to pick and choose.
The cookies I buy, then always lay off on someone else. But I act like they're great when the scouts are selling me them. It isn't their responsibility that the top leaders think in terms of cents/unit and maximizing profits. It's only $10 or $15 I buy, at any given time, so the price isn't bad. I'd personally just pay more for higher quality, like they used to have.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)Retired now with limited budget, but when I was making good money, I contributed to a lot of progressive and international causes, so they keep sending the forms (I think I have a million address stickers, LOL). I hurts me to not be able to do that now, and there's so many Democratic candidates that need help as well.
I think that's the way right-wingers want it because the weakest will just silently die, and they know progressives will give more to charities. Also ties right in to what you said about the birchers. I can't think of any better evidence that power and money corrupts the human spirit, except perhaps the many dictators and autocrats we've seen throughout history.
As worsening austerity takes hold in the USA (as it has in the UK), the needs are going to be much higher. And, we ain't seen anything yet compared to when heavy-duty climate change is more evident, causing mass hunger, displacement and migration. A tear comes to my eye often when I think of what my granddaughter will experience in her lifetime.
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Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Right up my alley, I was an Environmental Studies / Political Sociology student at UC santa cruz.
Big election years do make me shift donations toward overt political candidates over causes, but we're not on a fixed income yet.
I've been using the bumper stickers the different groups send to cover up unsightly bircher jones infowars stickers on the stop signs in the city wards around me. I have a bag full of them in my car, for that.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)Nothing wrong with covering up evil.
Just wanted to thank you for reminding me about the JBS, as I had no idea it was still active. I traveled in my work for so many years, I lost track of a lot of the crazy stuff. From reading a bit on Wikipedia, I see the Koch boys are involved, so that helps to explain come of their thinking.
After working for years in (and retiring from) air pollution control as a field engineer, you can imagine my disgust with what's happening with the EPA. My heart aches every day over this and it will take a long time to rebuild because so much wonderful talent and experience will be lost.
We are indeed in a civil war of sorts, and most people don't seem to know it.
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Mc Mike
(9,115 posts)Last edited Wed May 2, 2018, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)
book that I read would have some mention of the Hunt family's moves, that furthered their fascist aims. I started dog-earing and marking the books for their Hunt family references. Dozens of mentions, they were real movers behind the scenes. The 'fight' between Buckley/Poppy bush and the birchers was a b.s. staged puppet show, punch and judy.
They were the people behind the weaponization of 'Roe v Wade' and the NRA, after Nixon went down. It was a way to stay on the attack from the right, when the right was so thoroughly humiliated and discredited, by '64 Goldwater and '68-'72 Nixon's nazi self-destruction.
In the '90's through the '00's, the Kochs took point, and didn't love the spotlight, threatened and sued everybody they could to stay covert. Maddow covered the fact that the birchers were allowed back into the RNC tent in '08, were allowed inside the Convention to give out their 'literature'. They backed standard issue TX repuglinazi disguised as fake 'libertarian', Ron Paul. Used their old literature, substituted Ron Paul's pic for Robert Welch's.
Now, unhappy with the spotlight, the Kochs are pleased that Robert Mercer is on point.
You deserve a lot of credit for work on keeping the world's air safe. Right livelihood, and good for the kids and the rest of the world.
I was more oriented toward outside gov watchdog orgs than inside gov hard work getting things done. I did some policy courses, but didn't ever take a course that centered on air. I wrote one term paper on the possible climatic change ramifications coming from Ozone depletion over the Artic. My professor was a skeptic about it, but even in the '80's, there was evidence that less ozone more uv was changing the higher atmospheric levels' wind currents, in both directional sense and measurable km/hr terms. Even ignoring my main idea that more uv down in the biosphere itself was an actual climate change.
One argument I use with anti-science people is that millions of metric tons of pollutants are legally allowed to be pumped into the air, for cost externalization purposes, how can that NOT cause a problem with our atmosphere. Like the old REM song, 'buy the sky and sell the sky and ask the sky and tell the sky don't fall on me.'
The stickers act is a ball, it's great to see so many other people are out there doing it, I run into ones that were covered up by other people all the time. Nobody even knows the other people doing it. Just like turning the 'Enquirer' around on the shelves by the supermarket check out. I see it's already been done, a ton of the time, and the Enquirer shut up about their pro-dRump anti-American feelings, for many weeks at a time, because they saw how many of their shitty bird cage liners came back to the depo due to the action.
Shows you their 'fans' aren't even looking forward to the next weekly issue. If the fan doesn't see the front page, they don't look for it to purchase it. It hurts the Enquirer financially, and they showed it, with all their non-political front pages since the 'turnaround' began.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Is demanding you think just like him.
The reason Religion is fading fast.
Do as I say not what I do.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,500 posts)During my old-time religious upbringing (Southern Baptist, 50s-60s), the very thought of people worship or following anyone blindly was contrary to the teachings. Humility was the key to most everything. Today, humility and encouraging people to be open minded (and think for themselves) is in opposition to building megachurches and large archdiocese.
LOL, how else would they get the money if they didn't demand mind control?
Those things and a new, extreme level of hypocrisy is why I separated myself from religion many, many years ago.
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treestar
(82,383 posts)That's the idea - think not, just follow what you are told. Very authoritarian and not likely to work in this century.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,575 posts)this seems particularly sleazy, unseemly and unlikely. How can this possibly sit well with Christians of actual faith, or just people with a decent sense of right and wrong?
rocktivity
(44,583 posts)By yours truly, with music by Bon Jovi and divine inspiration from DUer Scuba.
rocktivity
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Certainly Democrats have been barred from the sacraments for not being against abortion. Here's a Catholic who's going against not only dogma but the Bible as well. Will the diocese punish Ryan similarly?