Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

lindysalsagal

(20,791 posts)
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:28 PM Apr 2018

Um, Hello? Are you watching msnbc: They have the collusion: Richard Engle

http://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/watch/russian-lawyer-in-trump-tower-meeting-discloses-she-s-a-kremlin-informant-1221030467524

Former CIA CoS Jeremy Bash, The Atlantic’s Natasha Bertrand, NYT’s Jeremy Peters & MSNBC analyst John Heilemann on the bombshell revelation from Natalia Veselnitskaya: She's taking back her denial that she was not in collusion with 45's campaign.

Quid-pro-quo: Dirt on HRC in trade for dropping sanctions and other things. Yup: It was Flynn. The big trump tower meeting. Direct connections to putin.
63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Um, Hello? Are you watching msnbc: They have the collusion: Richard Engle (Original Post) lindysalsagal Apr 2018 OP
Also earlier meetings between Flynn and Russian ambassador grantcart Apr 2018 #1
And she did not do that without Putin's blessing. Putin wants to show world democracy is a sham. TheBlackAdder Apr 2018 #61
I hope she is watching her back - there are some bad guys out there. . Doodley Apr 2018 #2
Who? Veselnitskaya?? RandomAccess Apr 2018 #16
I have been following this for years, since I first came across Vladislav Surkov (Grey Cardinal of Exotica Apr 2018 #20
you have just scared me to the quick rurallib Apr 2018 #23
ditto. But on my first quick read, isn't that what the US is doing around the world? erronis Apr 2018 #25
it isn't a one-way street, you are correct Exotica Apr 2018 #29
USA got the copyright! TomVilmer Apr 2018 #55
Uh, you just became my favorite poster ever. byronius Apr 2018 #24
it is all about creating a fog of war environment without actual kinetic weapons being used. Exotica Apr 2018 #33
Make this an OP please. Good show. nt PufPuf23 Apr 2018 #30
done and expanded Exotica Apr 2018 #41
Yes please, give this its own OP. byronius Apr 2018 #32
done and expanded Exotica Apr 2018 #42
WOW+++++++++ RandomAccess Apr 2018 #34
OH HELL YEAH, Exotica!! SURKOV Leghorn21 Apr 2018 #38
Done, and expanded with additional info, and how to fight back Exotica Apr 2018 #39
So many thanks, E!!! nt Leghorn21 Apr 2018 #43
your welcome! Exotica Apr 2018 #44
Did Richard engel say how he got the emails?? kentuck Apr 2018 #53
Yours is the War & Peace of posts. Nt duhneece Apr 2018 #50
Lol, the OP I made of it is even longer Exotica Apr 2018 #51
Hybrid warfare is a signal-to-noise model that characterizes free file swapping and DDOS attacks, ancianita Apr 2018 #57
It is not a one-way street, agreed. That said I am merely pointing out the Russian model Exotica Apr 2018 #58
I'm aware. And one can't emphasize this too much. It's just hitting the country's awareness. ancianita Apr 2018 #59
Hybrid/non linear war. Thanks. oasis Apr 2018 #63
Putin would have told her to say this dawg day Apr 2018 #52
Confirming what has been obvious for a long time. She is now in GRAVE danger from PUTIN Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #3
They don't say why she's going rogue. ??? lindysalsagal Apr 2018 #6
Sen. Wyden has been saying since the election to follow the trail of dead Russians. Amaryllis Apr 2018 #13
K&R Scurrilous Apr 2018 #4
Why did she change her story? Sanity Claws Apr 2018 #5
Maybe she's looking for asylum here. Mr.Bill Apr 2018 #9
She'll need to go into the witness protection program Sanity Claws Apr 2018 #10
I heard that Putin is OK with her confession since this is the standard Russian game. BigmanPigman Apr 2018 #7
Maybe this is putin sticking it to 45 for bungling the mobil oil deal and the sanctions lindysalsagal Apr 2018 #8
Well that fleshes out my theory pretty well. RandomAccess Apr 2018 #17
Seeing that Putin/Russia immediately publicize meetings and calls with tRump rufus dog Apr 2018 #26
Yeah, and several years later she is offed because she knows too much. erronis Apr 2018 #27
I think, rather, that they have documents that show who she really was. Sophia4 Apr 2018 #45
I agree with you. It's just another turn in the same story, from the same players. NBachers Apr 2018 #56
Putin is laughing his ass off dalton99a Apr 2018 #11
If she is in Russia, there probably isn't much we can do for her. RDANGELO Apr 2018 #12
On what show? I'm watching Hardball right now. Never mind...I found clips. nt Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #14
It's pretty amazing madville Apr 2018 #15
Mayday! Mayday! Roland99 Apr 2018 #18
Time to enjoy this again! JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #19
I love him! BigmanPigman Apr 2018 #35
on now poboy2 Apr 2018 #21
Watching Engel now malaise Apr 2018 #22
DVR cilla4progress Apr 2018 #28
Pretty wow. byronius Apr 2018 #31
But really what about Hillary's emails? Botany Apr 2018 #36
Yeah, I heard she Bleeched them or something even worse!!!! LOL But the joke is on us folks... winstars Apr 2018 #40
#TreasonWeasels sarcasmo Apr 2018 #37
But there was no collusion. milestogo Apr 2018 #46
Here's the updated piece via Rachel: lindysalsagal Apr 2018 #47
I would be very careful with this misanthrope Apr 2018 #48
republican TRAITORS against America Achilleaze Apr 2018 #49
I'm hoping so hard for either some corroboration BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #54
Conspiracy duforsure Apr 2018 #60
K&R...Thanks for posting red dog 1 Apr 2018 #62
 

RandomAccess

(5,210 posts)
16. Who? Veselnitskaya??
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:28 PM
Apr 2018

Nah. Or at least not necessarily. The Russians are playing along. Their goal isn't necessarily ALWAYS to help Trump, but to destroy our democracy. That route may take all kinds of circuitous routes.

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
20. I have been following this for years, since I first came across Vladislav Surkov (Grey Cardinal of
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:40 PM
Apr 2018

the Kremlin was his nickname)

How Putin Is Reinventing Warfare

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/05/05/how-putin-is-reinventing-warfare/

The Kremlin, according to Barack Obama, is stuck in the “old ways,” trapped in Cold War or even 19th century mindsets. But look closer at the Kremlin’s actions during the crisis in Ukraine and you begin to see a very 21st century mentality, manipulating transnational financial interconnections, spinning global media, and reconfiguring geo-political alliances. Could it be that the West is the one caught up in the “old ways,” while the Kremlin is the geopolitical avant-garde, informed by a dark, subversive reading of globalization?

The Kremlin’s approach might be called “non-linear war,” a term used in a short story written by one of Putin’s closest political advisors, Vladislav Surkov, which was published under his pseudonym, Nathan Dubovitsky, just a few days before the annexation of Crimea. Surkov is credited with inventing the system of “managed democracy” that has dominated Russia in the 21st century, and his new portfolio focuses on foreign policy. This time, he sets his new story in a dystopian future, after the “fifth world war.”

Surkov writes: “It was the first non-linear war. In the primitive wars of the 19th and 20th centuries it was common for just two sides to fight. Two countries, two blocks of allies. Now four coalitions collided. Not two against two, or three against one. All against all.”

This is a world where the old geo-political paradigms no longer hold. As the Kremlin faces down the West, it is indeed gambling that old alliances like the EU and NATO mean less in the 21st century than the new commercial ties it has established with nominally “Western” companies, such as BP, Exxon, Mercedes, and BASF. Meanwhile, many Western countries welcome corrupt financial flows from the post-Soviet space; it is part of their economic models, and not one many want disturbed. So far, the Kremlin’s gamble seems to be paying off, with financial considerations helping to curb sanctions. Part of the rationale for fast-tracking Russia’s inclusion into the global economy was that interconnection would be a check on aggression. But the Kremlin has figured out that this can be flipped: Interconnection also means that Russia can get away with aggression.


snip






Non-Linear Warfare and Reflexive Control - NATO Defense College

http://www.ndc.nato.int/download/downloads.php?icode=467



Redefining Hybrid Warfare: Russia’s Nonlinear War against the West

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1538&context=jss



What is Hybrid Warfare?

https://globalsecurityreview.com/hybrid-and-non-linear-warfare-systematically-erases-the-divide-between-war-peace/


Conventional Western concepts of war are incompatible and fundamentally misaligned with the realities of conflict in the twenty-first century. The emergence of a unipolar post-Cold War world order has resulted in a significant paradigm shift.

This change now requires the U.S. and its allies to adopt a new legal, psychological, and strategic understanding of warfare and use of force, particularly by state actors. The term “hybrid war” (military institutions use the term “hybrid threat”) connotes the use of conventional military force supported by irregular and cyber warfare tactics. In practical application, the Russian concept of “nonlinear conflict” exemplifies hybrid warfare strategy.

Linear conflicts are defined by a sequential progression of a planned strategy by opposing sides, whereas nonlinear conflict is the simultaneous deployment of multiple, complementary military and non-military warfare tactics. A nonlinear war is fought when a state employs conventional and irregular military forces in conjunction with psychological, economic, political, and cyber assaults. Confusion and disorder ensue when weaponized information exacerbates the perception of insecurity in the populace as political, social, and cultural identities are pitted against one another.

This “blurring” divides influential interest groups and powerful political organizations by exploiting identity politics and allegiances. Additionally, nonlinear warfare tactics act as a deterrent towards a more powerful ally of the besieged state.

snip


The Hidden Author of Putinism
How Vladislav Surkov invented the new Russia


https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/11/hidden-author-putinism-russia-vladislav-surkov/382489/

“I am the author, or one of the authors, of the new Russian system,” Vladislav Surkov told us by way of introduction. On this spring day in 2013, he was wearing a white shirt and a leather jacket that was part Joy Division and part 1930s commissar. “My portfolio at the Kremlin and in government has included ideology, media, political parties, religion, modernization, innovation, foreign relations, and ...”—here he pauses and smiles—“modern art.” He offers to not make a speech, instead welcoming the Ph.D. students, professors, journalists, and politicians gathered in an auditorium at the London School of Economics to pose questions and have an open discussion. After the first question, he talks for almost 45 minutes, leaving hardly any time for questions after all.

It’s his political system in miniature: democratic rhetoric and undemocratic intent.

As the former deputy head of the presidential administration, later deputy prime minister and then assistant to the president on foreign affairs, Surkov has directed Russian society like one great reality show. He claps once and a new political party appears. He claps again and creates Nashi, the Russian equivalent of the Hitler Youth, who are trained for street battles with potential pro-democracy supporters and burn books by unpatriotic writers on Red Square. As deputy head of the administration he would meet once a week with the heads of the television channels in his Kremlin office, instructing them on whom to attack and whom to defend, who is allowed on TV and who is banned, how the president is to be presented, and the very language and categories the country thinks and feels in. Russia’s Ostankino TV presenters, instructed by Surkov, pluck a theme (oligarchs, America, the Middle East) and speak for 20 minutes, hinting, nudging, winking, insinuating, though rarely ever saying anything directly, repeating words like “them” and “the enemy” endlessly until they are imprinted on the mind.

They repeat the great mantras of the era: The president is the president of “stability,” the antithesis to the era of “confusion and twilight” in the 1990s. “Stability”—the word is repeated again and again in a myriad seemingly irrelevant contexts until it echoes and tolls like a great bell and seems to mean everything good; anyone who opposes the president is an enemy of the great God of “stability.” “Effective manager,” a term quarried from Western corporate speak, is transmuted into a term to venerate the president as the most “effective manager” of all. “Effective” becomes the raison d’être for everything: Stalin was an “effective manager” who had to make sacrifices for the sake of being “effective.” The words trickle into the streets: “Our relationship is not effective” lovers tell each other when they break up. “Effective,” “stability”: No one can quite define what they actually mean, and as the city transforms and surges, everyone senses things are the very opposite of stable, and certainly nothing is “effective,” but the way Surkov and his puppets use them the words have taken on a life of their own and act like falling axes over anyone who is in any way disloyal.

One of Surkov’s many nicknames is the “political technologist of all of Rus.” Political technologists are the new Russian name for a very old profession: viziers, gray cardinals, wizards of Oz. They first emerged in the mid-1990s, knocking on the gates of power like pied pipers, bowing low and offering their services to explain the world and whispering that they could reinvent it. They inherited a very Soviet tradition of top-down governance and tsarist practices of co-opting anti-state actors (anarchists in the 19th century, neo-Nazis and religious fanatics now), all fused with the latest thinking in television, advertising, and black PR. Their first clients were actually Russian modernizers: In 1996 the political technologists, coordinated by Boris Berezovsky, the oligarch nicknamed the “Godfather of the Kremlin” and the man who first understood the power of television in Russia, managed to win then-President Boris Yeltsin a seemingly lost election by persuading the nation that he was the only man who could save it from a return to revanchist Communism and new fascism. They produced TV scare-stories of looming pogroms and conjured fake Far Right parties, insinuating that the other candidate was a Stalinist (he was actually more a socialist democrat), to help create the mirage of a looming “red-brown” menace.

snip



The Literary Intrigues of Putin’s Puppet Master

http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/01/22/the-literary-intrigues-of-putins-puppet-master/

In the summer of 2009, a slender novel caused a literary sensation in Moscow. Centering on a poetry-loving gangster-cum-book publisher wracked by Hamletian perplexities over a possible snuff film, it unloaded a darkly absurdist, but caustically knowing, satire on the corruptions and machinations of post-Soviet Russia, with a whirligig of literary remixes and references.

What really triggered the sensation, though, over Okolonolya, or Almost Zero (subtitled gangsta fiction, in English, in the Russian edition), was the identity of its author, an unknown named Natan Dubovitsky. Dubovitsky was soon suspected, courtesy of an anonymous tip from the novel’s publisher to the St. Petersburg newspaper Vedomosti, of being a pseudonym for Vladislav Surkov, who was then the Russian presidential deputy chief of staff. At the time, this Kremlin ideologue was, arguably, the second- or third-most powerful man in the country. It was Surkov, variously called a “political technologist,” the “gray cardinal,” or a “puppet master,” who had created and orchestrated Putin’s so-called sovereign democracy—the stage-managed, sham-democratic Russia, the ruthlessly stabilized, still-rotten Russia that Almost Zero was savaging. Almost Zero is now available to English readers in a limited edition from an adventurous small publisher in Brooklyn, Inpatient Press. Inpatient takes the leap and credits Surkov as the author. (And, in the spirit of Almost Zero itself, it is publishing the novel without authorization.)

Plenty of politicos write novels; but not many write eviscerating self-satires. It was as though Karl Rove had taken the knife to his and George W. Bush’s America in, say, 2005. Surkov, however, wasn’t, and isn’t, simply a Rove. The documentary filmmaker Adam Curtis calls him “a hero of our time” (in praise and opprobrium) for turning Russia’s political reality into “a bewildering, constantly changing piece of theater.” For supplying an early model, if you will, for Donald Trump’s media-savvy tactics of chaos and confusion. And what a perversely fascinating, complex figure emerges from the details of Surkov’s biography: an arch-propagandist of power and an arty outsider, an authoritarian’s right hand and a bohemian aesthete whose education included studying theater at the Moscow Institute of Culture in the 1980s (he was expelled for fighting). As the USSR was collapsing, Surkov became the public-relations mastermind for oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s pioneering business, Menatep Bank, which was where Surkov met his wife, Natalya; soon, he was heading up Russia’s fledging association of ad men. Denied a partnership in business after Khodorkovsky’s ill-fated acquisition of the oil giant Yukos in the 1990s—Khodorkovsky ended up in prison during Putin’s taming of the oligarchs—Surkov left for a position with Alfa Bank (of Trump dossier notoriety, for alleged aid in Russian meddling in the 2016 election; the owners are suing for defamation). He then ran a major TV network, before devoting his image-making and lobbying talents, first, to then President Boris Yeltsin, and, subsequently, to Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Medvedev.

Even in government, Surkov found time to write essays praising Bollywood movies and Joan Miró in the pages of Russian Pioneer, a glitzy intellectual magazine—which went on to publish Almost Zero in a special edition. He composed lyrics for the Russian rock band Agata Kristi (whose lead singer later sued a critic for calling him “a trained poodle for Surkov”). Famously an admirer of Tupac Shakur, Surkov can also quote Allen Ginsberg’s poetry by heart, albeit in heavily-accented English (there’s a cringe-making recording online of him reciting Ginsberg’s “Supermarket Sutra” in full). In his spacious Kremlin office, photos of Putin and Medvedev hung beside the likenesses of Jorge Luis Borges and John Lennon, Che Guevara and a young Joseph Brodsky, together with Tupac in a hoodie, Obama looking pensive, and Bismarck looking “Iron Cross.”

snip

erronis

(15,460 posts)
25. ditto. But on my first quick read, isn't that what the US is doing around the world?
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:19 PM
Apr 2018

Installments of small unannounced bases with non-identifiable military/contractor personnel; cyber-warfare and testing of defenses against every country, every corporation worldwide - even our allies and ourselves.

Even in the old wars with massive armies facing off against each other there were the infiltrations and behind-the-lines disruption of communications and destruction of property.

byronius

(7,410 posts)
24. Uh, you just became my favorite poster ever.
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:17 PM
Apr 2018

Holy %$#&. I knew some of this, but you've provided the full library. THANK YOU.

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
33. it is all about creating a fog of war environment without actual kinetic weapons being used.
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:36 PM
Apr 2018

You churn up all the inherent pre-existing divisions within a society and get them to turn on each other.


Leghorn21

(13,527 posts)
38. OH HELL YEAH, Exotica!! SURKOV
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:55 PM
Apr 2018

I demand you make this an OP even though we’ve never met, because I am bossy!!

Right after the selection and the DU hack, a poster appeared here...the poster lives in California and had moved here from Russia a few years earlier.

The poster knew EXACTLY WTF was going on here, and especially when Kellyanne Conway started on her “alternative facts” tour? - the poster was chilled to the bone, having PERSONALLY lived through all Putin’s and SURHOV’S mindfucking techniques in Russia.

Please post this as a separate OP!!! And thank you also for the effort it took to put this post together!!!

(begging emo here)

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
39. Done, and expanded with additional info, and how to fight back
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 10:04 PM
Apr 2018
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210549623



I currently live right across the Baltic from Russia, so it is a constant topic here

ancianita

(36,216 posts)
57. Hybrid warfare is a signal-to-noise model that characterizes free file swapping and DDOS attacks,
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 02:49 PM
Apr 2018

Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2018, 03:48 PM - Edit history (1)

while hiding the perpetrators.

It's a model supported by the centuries-old class war of attrition by rich authoritarians against the common human.

The U.S. Military hybrid warfare strategists took British military war tactics, class warfare, the spy toolbox, and went on to write the book on how most human concerns are expendable, including countries' constitutions, rule of law, and rules of engagement.

America created hybrid warfare.

 

Exotica

(1,461 posts)
58. It is not a one-way street, agreed. That said I am merely pointing out the Russian model
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 03:34 PM
Apr 2018

and their particular twists on it. I do not think a dissection of the US/UK/NATO projections of non-linear, asymmetrical global systemic interventions would be well-received here. Such are the times we live in.

ancianita

(36,216 posts)
59. I'm aware. And one can't emphasize this too much. It's just hitting the country's awareness.
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 03:46 PM
Apr 2018

It's arguable that the Russians learned much from the West about asymmetrical interventions, and Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan's The Red Web is a credible report on how far back were Soviet attempts to catch up.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
52. Putin would have told her to say this
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 11:09 AM
Apr 2018

He's toying with Trump. Trump is so over his head. He's stupid-- he doesn't understand someone who rose to Evil Power by his wits, not his daddy's millions.

Putin used Trump and curried favor with him. Now he's going to take nasty little bites out of him.

And here we are, the country that Trump is president of.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,134 posts)
3. Confirming what has been obvious for a long time. She is now in GRAVE danger from PUTIN
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:34 PM
Apr 2018

and I hope to god she has protection.

Sanity Claws

(21,866 posts)
5. Why did she change her story?
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:37 PM
Apr 2018

There are so many double agents, people playing each other, etc. that I find it hard to figure out who is zooming whom.

Mr.Bill

(24,363 posts)
9. Maybe she's looking for asylum here.
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:53 PM
Apr 2018

Trump will call her a liar 300 times in the next week and by next Friday, one third of the country will believe it.

Sanity Claws

(21,866 posts)
10. She'll need to go into the witness protection program
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:00 PM
Apr 2018

She is also very recognizable so she will need some plastic surgery.

BigmanPigman

(51,650 posts)
7. I heard that Putin is OK with her confession since this is the standard Russian game.
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:41 PM
Apr 2018

Last edited Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

First they deny everything...wide eyed innocence and indignation. Then it is followed by the true story where they sit back and laugh at us for being so naive. Then they celebrate with vodka shots at how clever they are at making the US a laughing stock with no self respect or respect from former allies. This IS the cold war version 2018...it is an ongoing cyber war and we are screwed.

She is not in danger at all. In fact Putin probably told her to say it.

lindysalsagal

(20,791 posts)
8. Maybe this is putin sticking it to 45 for bungling the mobil oil deal and the sanctions
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 07:51 PM
Apr 2018

Sure sounds right.

 

rufus dog

(8,419 posts)
26. Seeing that Putin/Russia immediately publicize meetings and calls with tRump
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:20 PM
Apr 2018

And we find out via Russian TV rather than our elected officials, I agree with you. They know the Repubs are complicit and won't do a thing, the true patriots will be pissed off, and the clueless won't pay attention. A perfect way to tear apart a Country. Hell it works on my, my Repub friends, I could give jack shit about their opinion on anything based upon the tRump support.

erronis

(15,460 posts)
27. Yeah, and several years later she is offed because she knows too much.
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 09:22 PM
Apr 2018

There is no safety when you start dealing with mobsters - even if you are "one of them".

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
45. I think, rather, that they have documents that show who she really was.
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 12:47 AM
Apr 2018

Even the e-mail to Donald, Jr. stated something about the Russian prosecutor, etc.

This was never a secret.

NBachers

(17,184 posts)
56. I agree with you. It's just another turn in the same story, from the same players.
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 02:25 PM
Apr 2018

Set up the pins, and once they're arranged, roll at them from a different lane.

The team gets knocked helter-skelter; the other team closes in, and the agents of chaos plan their next angle of attack from above, behind, and within the lines.

madville

(7,413 posts)
15. It's pretty amazing
Fri Apr 27, 2018, 08:25 PM
Apr 2018

I didn't realize the "dirt" she had on Hillary and other Democrats was given to her by Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS from another investigation they were conducting involving a lawsuit. They were involved with all sides somehow.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526

milestogo

(16,829 posts)
46. But there was no collusion.
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 12:50 AM
Apr 2018

no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion...no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion...no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion...no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion...no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion... no collusion...

misanthrope

(7,436 posts)
48. I would be very careful with this
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 02:50 AM
Apr 2018

The key phrase I heard was "NBC was unable to authenticate..." the emails, meaning this could be another variation on George W. Bush's National Guard records that cost Dan Rather his job.

Unless Veselnitskaya is in the mood for polonium borscht, this smacks of something tricky.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,578 posts)
54. I'm hoping so hard for either some corroboration
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 12:01 PM
Apr 2018

or that her testimony is VERY compelling.

This investigation seemed to be moving so slowly, at one time. I guess that was all the groundwork, too preliminary and nowhere near air-tight enough to make it to the public. Now, it seems to be moving like its ass is on fire.

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
60. Conspiracy
Sat Apr 28, 2018, 04:10 PM
Apr 2018

To affect the results of a national election by an enemy stealing a candidates information to then give to the public to damage her chances of winning, and to undermine our Democracy with. That's treasonous people, and no wonder why trump is in panic mode to stop this investigation now. He's caught, and they have the proof to show he and many others are involved, and will be also held accountable, especially those helping him obstruct justice. Russia committed a horrible crime against us, using trump to do it . Trump is well aware of what he did, that's why he's so desperate to fire anyone associated with the investigations going on against them now, and exposing them more each day. Makes the GOP in the House look pretty corrupt now too, and making it more probable both the House and the Senate will flip over to the Democrats now. Trump's time in office could be shorter than most think now. Eventually he'll be pleading for a deal. Lets just hope he doesn't get one, and is held to pay for his treasonous crimes against this country.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Um, Hello? Are you watchi...