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David__77

(23,602 posts)
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:28 PM Apr 2018

The Evidence Is Not With Joy Reid

The new round of posts contain a lot of cliche gay jokes about Charlie Crist and others, concerns that “adult gay men tend to be attracted to very young, post-pubescent types, bringing them ‘into the lifestyle,’” and commentary like “part of the intrinsic nature of ‘straightness’ is that the idea of homosexual sex is ... well ... gross ... even if you think that gay people are perfectly lovely individuals.”

...

Among the implausible factors is that for Reid’s story to be correct, someone would have had to hack her blog back in the ’00s, but no one, including Reid herself, noticed the invalid posts.

...

The Internet rots faster than anyone could have guessed. Almost every word written on the web gets flushed down the memory hole, sinking into obscurity; it’s basically impossible to find any reference to the original Reid Report just using Google.

But, as Joy Reid is finding out, all it takes is one person to chisel electronic words into a more permanent form.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/04/the-evidence-is-not-with-joy-reid/558935/

71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Evidence Is Not With Joy Reid (Original Post) David__77 Apr 2018 OP
Supporters of a certain non-Dem also ran are salty about Joy. LexVegas Apr 2018 #1
Yes, that is interesting isn't it? JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #3
Perhaps more interesting than disparaging anti-gay comments. David__77 Apr 2018 #5
Gay men might not like being called sexual predators. David__77 Apr 2018 #4
Definitely this. NurseJackie Apr 2018 #46
I trust Joan Walsh here Gothmog Apr 2018 #2
Except that it is with her - actually. TheSmarterDog Apr 2018 #6
Let the facts on the alleged tampering be aired. This article seems CentralMass Apr 2018 #7
The Joy Reid Saga: The Wayback Machine cannot guarantee authenticity Gothmog Apr 2018 #8
If she didn't say those things, I hope evidence to that effect comes out as soon as possible. David__77 Apr 2018 #10
Isn't part of the evidence the very odd fact that the homophobic statements pnwmom Apr 2018 #48
That could very well be. David__77 Apr 2018 #50
See the Joan Walsh twitter thread re comments, posted in post 2. emulatorloo Apr 2018 #52
Where do you see no one responded? Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2018 #53
Joan Walsh says they didn't. I believe her. pnwmom Apr 2018 #58
I figured as much. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2018 #59
Why are you so eager to believe she was posting homophobic comments over and over pnwmom Apr 2018 #61
She speaks out about a certain failed non-Dem. nt LexVegas Apr 2018 #63
Regardless of where she may have been yesterday, where is she today? marble falls Apr 2018 #9
This is total bullshit. trof Apr 2018 #11
Some claims about gay men may be total bullshit. David__77 Apr 2018 #13
The writer of the article, by his own admission, has not seen the evidence. lapucelle Apr 2018 #12
20 years ago I said as much, I regret the words but have you not said things that were ignorant? Demonaut Apr 2018 #14
This would be a false equivalency PDittie Apr 2018 #71
This isn't about anything other than silencing the voice of a powerful black woman. NightWatcher Apr 2018 #15
It's not about the statements made about gay men and homosexuality? David__77 Apr 2018 #16
Post removed Post removed Apr 2018 #17
Yeah we gay guys (including Glenn Greenwald) better STFU right?nt m-lekktor Apr 2018 #19
You just want a pony!!! QC Apr 2018 #38
If you don't they will send it to a jury. bahrbearian Apr 2018 #41
I don't care where she was so many peabody Apr 2018 #18
If she didn't make those comments, great! David__77 Apr 2018 #21
What story? And why would it matter now? peabody Apr 2018 #26
No it isn't. nt m-lekktor Apr 2018 #20
I'm sorry, I'm missing the point of your OP. Not being negative, just not sure where you're going. George II Apr 2018 #22
It is an article in a publication. David__77 Apr 2018 #23
Then I guess you agree with the article then? George II Apr 2018 #25
I do wonder who made the comments David__77 Apr 2018 #27
Where are her negative posts followed by responses calling her out? pnwmom Apr 2018 #24
From what I've read about this all day, not one comment calling her out pre-2006. That alone... George II Apr 2018 #28
Quite suspicious, George mcar Apr 2018 #33
"In December I learned that an unknown, external party accessed and manipulated material.." melman Apr 2018 #29
There were two completely different incidents. The one in December and now this one. George II Apr 2018 #31
No kidding melman Apr 2018 #40
No, apparently two different blogs but not sure. George II Apr 2018 #42
Given that she admitted the Crist posts were hers mythology Apr 2018 #55
Yes melman Apr 2018 #57
I generally believe where there's smoke, there's fire MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #30
The Joy bashers are being trolled. TomSlick Apr 2018 #32
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2018 #35
NOBODY has read the supposed posts in real time, nor was there pushback in real time..... George II Apr 2018 #43
*** THERE ARE NO COMMENTS ON THESE POST IN QUESTION!!! *** uponit7771 Apr 2018 #34
From what I understand, according to the researcher representing Ms. Reid blogslut Apr 2018 #36
Yes they would and the LoC, any of the scrapers would archive the altered entries uponit7771 Apr 2018 #68
I confess that in my youth I was intolerant or worse Cary Apr 2018 #37
I was a Bill Buckley supporter back in the early 1960s when he ran for Mayor of NYC. George II Apr 2018 #44
My Civil Rights professor was Jules Gerard Cary Apr 2018 #47
And so it goes........... George II Apr 2018 #56
So true of many of us... Docreed2003 Apr 2018 #60
I can remember when President Obama was being labeled a homophobe. Scurrilous Apr 2018 #39
Breitbart is reposting this article from The Atlantic... musette_sf Apr 2018 #45
You're right, the evidence is not with her janterry Apr 2018 #49
To clarify, that is the article's position - not mine. David__77 Apr 2018 #51
Well, then I agree with the the IT folks janterry Apr 2018 #54
I've seen the altered post and there's no doubt ghosting around the text and the fact uponit7771 Apr 2018 #70
I know you hate her, but the issue has been investigated by MSNBC, and she was telling the truth ecstatic Apr 2018 #62
Well, Im not fond of the comments. David__77 Apr 2018 #64
When did MSNBC say that? melman Apr 2018 #65
Today. Here: ecstatic Apr 2018 #66
So, nowhere did MSNBC actually say melman Apr 2018 #67
They don't have to, all these people missing all of thoseg comments his highly improbable uponit7771 Apr 2018 #69

David__77

(23,602 posts)
4. Gay men might not like being called sexual predators.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:36 PM
Apr 2018

Claim: "adult gay men tend to be attracted to very young, post-pubescent types, bringing them 'into the lifestyle.'"

Gothmog

(145,812 posts)
2. I trust Joan Walsh here
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:34 PM
Apr 2018

I was very sad to see Joan Walsh leave MSNBC. I have been following Joan Walsh for a very long time and I have a great deal of confidence in her judgment. Joan Walsh has been following Joy Reid for a long time and has published Joy Reid. Based on her long experience with Joy Reid, Joan Walsh does not believe the reports on Reid's alleged homophobic remarks



















Walsh is honest to admit that she has not read everything that Joy Reid has posted but she does have a good feel for who Joy Reid is.

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
7. Let the facts on the alleged tampering be aired. This article seems
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:42 PM
Apr 2018

to make a strong case that tampering was not done.
I am not passing judgment until the dust clears.

Gothmog

(145,812 posts)
8. The Joy Reid Saga: The Wayback Machine cannot guarantee authenticity
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:44 PM
Apr 2018

The wayback machine does not guarantee anything https://burningbird.net/the-joy-reid-saga-the-wayback-machine-cannot-guarantee-authenticity/#.WuDw69w6PTy.twitter

The same cannot be said for the actual Wayback Machine archives.

The Wayback Machine is an invaluable historical record of the web. Through it, I’ve been able to recover past writings lost because of all the many changes I’ve made to my web site. It’s a wonderful way of exploring the web’s history.

However, the Wayback Machine is not, and never has been, a definitive source of the authenticity of what it captures on the web. It has access to a web page at a specific location at a specific time…but no special privilege that allows it to determine the authenticity of the author of the content in the page.

As noted by Chris Butler at the Internet Archives, home organization for the Wayback Machine:

When we reviewed the archives, we found nothing to indicate tampering or hacking of the Wayback Machine versions. At least some of the examples of allegedly fraudulent posts provided to us had been archived at different dates and by different entities.

Pages archived at different dates and by different entities... This statement is key to understanding the difference between Wayback Machine’s archival functionality as separate from the media’s assumption of Wayback Machine as Super Authenticator, able to leap tall metadata with a single bound!

David__77

(23,602 posts)
10. If she didn't say those things, I hope evidence to that effect comes out as soon as possible.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 07:49 PM
Apr 2018

If, on the other hand, she did say those things and then subsequently denied saying them, then I hope she acknowledges that.

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
48. Isn't part of the evidence the very odd fact that the homophobic statements
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:13 PM
Apr 2018

weren't followed by any posts condemning the statements?

No one responded to these posts in real time. That seems very unlikely to me.

David__77

(23,602 posts)
50. That could very well be.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:18 PM
Apr 2018

I don't know the frequency of comments on posts that she made around that time.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,352 posts)
53. Where do you see no one responded?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:22 PM
Apr 2018

People keep saying that. Where are the rely pages reflecting no replies?

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
61. Why are you so eager to believe she was posting homophobic comments over and over
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:44 PM
Apr 2018

and yet there was never an uproar till NOW?

David__77

(23,602 posts)
13. Some claims about gay men may be total bullshit.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:16 PM
Apr 2018

There is a claim: "adult gay men tend to be attracted to very young, post-pubescent types, bringing them ‘into the lifestyle."

Now, I'm hopeful that whoever authored such a claim chooses to acknowledge such.

lapucelle

(18,378 posts)
12. The writer of the article, by his own admission, has not seen the evidence.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:07 PM
Apr 2018

Why are so many people in such a rush to condemn Joy? Cui bene?

PDittie

(8,322 posts)
71. This would be a false equivalency
Thu Apr 26, 2018, 05:50 PM
Apr 2018

Did you also claim someone hacked your blog and wrote those ignorant things when they were recently made public?

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
15. This isn't about anything other than silencing the voice of a powerful black woman.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:19 PM
Apr 2018

This is a setup for going after Kamala Harris or any Democratic woman.

Don't take the russian bot bait.

David__77

(23,602 posts)
16. It's not about the statements made about gay men and homosexuality?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:23 PM
Apr 2018

"adult gay men tend to be attracted to very young, post-pubescent types, bringing them ‘into the lifestyle,’"

"part of the intrinsic nature of ‘straightness’ is that the idea of homosexual sex is ... well ... gross ... even if you think that gay people are perfectly lovely individuals."

Response to David__77 (Reply #16)

peabody

(445 posts)
18. I don't care where she was so many
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:34 PM
Apr 2018

years ago. I'm just care about where she stands now and it's clearly on the side of progressives. So I'm sorry you have a problem with her; but right now she certainly isn't a problem but people trying to take down a strong progressive black woman is--like you.

David__77

(23,602 posts)
21. If she didn't make those comments, great!
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:42 PM
Apr 2018

If she did make the comments and doesn't agree with them now, great!

I do think that the comments are part of the story.

peabody

(445 posts)
26. What story? And why would it matter now?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:50 PM
Apr 2018

We need all the allies we can get--especially ones that fight back hard against the right. Instead of trying to divide us and take down a progressive, unite instead and focus on the people that really are doing harm to this country. Posts like this only acts to divide and weaken us. Stop helping the Russians do their job!

George II

(67,782 posts)
22. I'm sorry, I'm missing the point of your OP. Not being negative, just not sure where you're going.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:45 PM
Apr 2018

Thanks.

pnwmom

(109,021 posts)
24. Where are her negative posts followed by responses calling her out?
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:47 PM
Apr 2018

You'd think that would have happened in real time, if this were real.

At least someone would have objected.

George II

(67,782 posts)
28. From what I've read about this all day, not one comment calling her out pre-2006. That alone...
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:53 PM
Apr 2018

....is VERY suspicious.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
29. "In December I learned that an unknown, external party accessed and manipulated material.."
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:54 PM
Apr 2018

If she learned that in December why didn't she say so then? Why wait until now?

I guess it makes sense though, I mean it's not as if she was in the news in December for this exact same thing...oh wait she totally was!

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
40. No kidding
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:06 PM
Apr 2018

Two different incidents involving the same kinds of posts on the same blog. Thus...the same thing.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
57. Yes
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:33 PM
Apr 2018

She was in the new for homophobic blog posts back in December. And she is again in the news for homophobic blog posts. Same thing.


MaryMagdaline

(6,859 posts)
30. I generally believe where there's smoke, there's fire
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:55 PM
Apr 2018

However, the non-sequitur and dangling modifier within the sentence attributed to Joy Reid simply goes not ring true. Joy never makes grammatical or logical errors while talking on the fly. Would never happen in written form.

TomSlick

(11,126 posts)
32. The Joy bashers are being trolled.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 08:59 PM
Apr 2018

Is there anyone not working for Wikileaks or Breitbart that has claimed to have read the supposed post in real time? Can anyone credible say they read it before it was "discovered" ten years after the date of the alleged post?

George II

(67,782 posts)
43. NOBODY has read the supposed posts in real time, nor was there pushback in real time.....
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:08 PM
Apr 2018

....makes one wonder.

uponit7771

(90,370 posts)
34. *** THERE ARE NO COMMENTS ON THESE POST IN QUESTION!!! ***
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:01 PM
Apr 2018

Let someone say something out and out homophobic here, there would be a crap storm then a hide.

Yes, there's something not right

blogslut

(38,021 posts)
36. From what I understand, according to the researcher representing Ms. Reid
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:02 PM
Apr 2018

Someone guessed her old Blogger password, logged in and altered old entries. I'm not sure that sort of manipulation would show up on the Wayback Machine.

Cary

(11,746 posts)
37. I confess that in my youth I was intolerant or worse
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:03 PM
Apr 2018

I didn't know any better but I have evolved as have most people whom I know.

If this makes me a bad person, that I had to evolve, then I am a bad person. The moving finger writes and having writ moves on. Nor all thy piety nor thy wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line. Nor all thy tears wash out.a word of it.

I don't want to lose Joy Reid. Let's not do that.

Scurrilous

(38,687 posts)
39. I can remember when President Obama was being labeled a homophobe.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:05 PM
Apr 2018

And Glen Greenwald was leading the charge then too. @#$% that guy.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
49. You're right, the evidence is not with her
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:17 PM
Apr 2018

I'll wait and see what her next move is. But the evidence is most definitely not with her.

uponit7771

(90,370 posts)
70. I've seen the altered post and there's no doubt ghosting around the text and the fact
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:59 PM
Apr 2018

... that a well known blogger on a progressive site doesn't have any comments associated with offensive postings is highly improbable.

There's more evidence that there's a hack than not

ecstatic

(32,781 posts)
62. I know you hate her, but the issue has been investigated by MSNBC, and she was telling the truth
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:55 PM
Apr 2018

about her blog being altered.

Furthermore, the Internet "archive" has several vulnerabilities that have not yet been fixed. Data can be altered, deleted, and corrupted.

https://repository.wellesley.edu/scholarship/158/

http://labs.rhizome.org/presentations/security.html#/

David__77

(23,602 posts)
64. Well, Im not fond of the comments.
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 09:58 PM
Apr 2018

If she didn’t make them, great!

Someone or some group did make disparaging comments about gay people.

ecstatic

(32,781 posts)
66. Today. Here:
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:18 PM
Apr 2018
on Tuesday night, a spokeswoman for MSNBC shared several documents with CNNMoney, including a statement from an independent security consultant named Jonathan Nichols, who said he has "significant evidence" that some of the recently circulated posts are bogus.

In his statement, Nichols said that he "discovered that login information used to access the blog was available on the Dark Web and that fraudulent entries -- featuring offensive statements -- were entered with suspicious formatting and time stamps."

"At no time has Ms. Reid claimed that the Wayback Machine was hacked, though early in our investigation, we were made aware of a breach at archive.org which may have correlated with the fraudulent blog posts we observed on their website," Nichols said. "We simply wanted to ascertain whether that breach was related to the compromising of Ms. Reid's blog."

The MSNBC spokesperson also provided letters sent in December from Reid's attorney to Alphabet, the parent company of Google, which owned the site on which Reid's blog was hosted at the time of the disputed posts, and Internet Archive, which runs the Wayback Machine, to alert the companies of the alleged hacking. CNNMoney has reached out to Alphabet for comment. The MSNBC spokesperson did not respond to a follow-up inquiry regarding Alphabet's response.

Nichols said that many of the posts in question were published at a time when Reid was hosting a radio show, and that the "text and visual styling was inconsistent with her original entries."

He added that "some of the recently circulated posts were not even on the site at any time, suggesting that these instances may be the result of screenshot manipulation."

Reid's attorney, John H. Reichman, highlighted what he said was another discrepancy in his letters to the companies, pointing out that Reid published posts on January 10, 2006 about the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito at 10:18 a.m., 11:34 a.m. and 11:41 a.m., but that the archive showed what Reichman described as a "lengthy, fraudulent entry" at 11:28 a.m.

"Ms. Reid did not have the superhuman blogging skills needed to do all of these posts simultaneously," Reichman wrote.


http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/25/media/joy-reid-msnbc-host-wayback-machine/index.html

Again, in my other post, the security holes specifically related to the Wayback Machine have already been documented (and demonstrated) by researchers at Wellesley. People are incorrectly assuming that the archive is foolproof evidence, and that is not the case. People should become educated on this type of attack so it doesn't interfere with our upcoming elections. https://repository.wellesley.edu/scholarship/158/
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
67. So, nowhere did MSNBC actually say
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:23 PM
Apr 2018

That they looked into it and found that it's true the blog was altered. That's what I thought.

uponit7771

(90,370 posts)
69. They don't have to, all these people missing all of thoseg comments his highly improbable
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:56 PM
Apr 2018

... Reid didn't come out of nowhere, she was highly known before going on MSNBC

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