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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShocking reason behind the Toronto van attack - I found this mind boggling
"The deadly van attack in Toronto is shining a spotlight on the controversial, often misogynistic world of "incels."
The term incel is short for "involuntarily celibate," and the community that uses the label is typically dominated by men voicing frustration online about their lack of sexual relationships, sometimes blaming women for their failures with the opposite sex."
"Toronto police said Tuesday that Alek Minassian, the 25-year-old suspected of driving the van that plowed into pedestrians on a busy stretch of Yonge Street in Toronto's north end Monday, killing 10 people, is alleged to have published "a cryptic post on Facebook minutes before he began driving the rented van."
More:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/what-is-an-incel-toronto-van-attack-explainer-alek-minassian-1.4633893
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There just seems to be no end to the hatred of women by some males in our society. It is truly frightening.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. In his case trying for a Handmaid's Tale society.
maxsolomon
(33,449 posts)And I see echoes of this resentment in many many Rampage Shootings, Familycides, etc. Maybe most. Nearly all are committed by men.
Toxic masculinity.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)It's a behavioral problem.
Volaris
(10,278 posts)These are the clowns who think they should show up at the college cheerleader convention and everybody's just gonna drop their panties and yell 'yeah, daddy, YEAH!!!'
you've gotta do SOME work. Sitting in mommy's basement and posting on subreddit threads about how unfair it all is because you don't wanna put in the work required to get up and go out and go meet members of the sex you're attracted to is just damn lazy on your part.
These people just piss me off, sorry.
roscoeroscoe
(1,370 posts)The rest will fall in naturally
ProfessorGAC
(65,334 posts)Act like a twit, get treated like a twit. Of course these idiotic guys have trouble with ladies. They haven't a clue how to behave like an adult male.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)Have fun, play the odds and be nice - be able to laugh at yourself
A = attitude - its all fun no big deal if it doesn't work with xxx, laugh at your self
B = balls - talk to someone in the first 30 seconds or go home! don't sit around waiting for it to happen
C = charm - have SOME kind of game and be able to carry on a conversation, be it funny, nice, sexy, etc
Locrian
(4,522 posts)They don't have the emotional ability to make that connection with someone - which means being fun, playful, sexy, nice whatever.
They're the "creeps" women talk about.
FakeNoose
(32,854 posts)It's sad that so many boys grow up without their fathers, for one reason or another. But an older man who cares and gives a good example (yeah I'm not talking about pedophiles either) can be the guide to good humanity. Boys need their fathers, or at least a caring guy who understands them and looks out for them. It's not that hard to understand.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)They used to be lone-wolf abusers or killers. Now, thanks to the Internet, they have a name and a peer group.
whathehell
(29,100 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)It's why right wing racist parties rise during economic uncertainty. Likewise domestic violence rises with economic uncertainty.
Guilded Lilly
(5,591 posts)But yes, fellow Ohiogal (buckeye hug) it is very frightening.
The tendency of violence has always been there among those men who cannot personally handle strong, independently thinking women, but quite often now, it seems like Pandoras Box has been ripped wide open.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,022 posts)Incels are an offshoot of the more formally organized Mens rights activists, which also has ties to white supremacist groups. It was no fun being a feminist here for a number of years.
I recommend following this guyhes been calling out those fuckers out for a long time
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com
DURHAM D
(32,617 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)and great link. Thanks for posting it.
Sid
SunSeeker
(51,784 posts)brer cat
(24,635 posts)catbyte
(34,514 posts)because they're so creepy women won't get near them? It's always someone else's fault with these types. I wonder if the website's host knows the violence that site is nurturing. The site you posted is providing a valuable service by outing these creeps. Thanks for posting. I love the name, lol.
IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)where these guys create profiles describing their frustrations with feminism and women. Law enforcement can monitor it very closely.
GoneOffShore
(17,342 posts)I would have liked very much not to have looked under that rock.
Here's yet another perspective.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/25/incels-violent-misogyny-toronto-facebook
Codeine
(25,586 posts)someone lamented that men, including himself, who use internet dating services sometimes have to date women two or more steps below their own Sexual Market Value.
Aint that some shit?
So fucking creepy
Iggo
(47,586 posts)What kind of person thinks that way?
Squinch
(51,075 posts)trolling women here for ages.
I don't miss those days, but I often wonder how redqueen and seabeyond are doing.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)to be around you, which is often a precursor to intimacy and or sex.
File under: Duh
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)When I grew up, EVERY guy knew that if you wanted to score with the ladies, you had to have game. You cleaned up. You worked out. You learned MANNERS and COURTESY and exercised them religiously. You demonstrated consideration and interest in what girls had to say. All around, you brought your absolute best to the table.
These guys are just a bunch of whiny slob losers. It figures, since their President and primary role model is the God King of whiny slob losers.
Aristus
(66,509 posts)I was pretty unpopular with girls when I was in high school. (And unpopular with everyone else, too.) I was a nice guy. I thought that was all it took, and it upset me that no one I liked seemed to respond to that.
I cringe that if I had taken a wrong turn somewhere, I might have turned into one of these creeps.
As it is, I learned the things you pointed out above, dressing well, working out, observing good manners. I get a lot more positive attention from women now than I ever thought possible, despite not looking like George Clooney.
I suppose being happily married may have something to do with it, but at least now I have the confidence to approach and communicate with women on their terms.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)I was a pretty shy nerd in high school. Not the best looking guy. But eventually I started taking serious action in all those areas until I felt like I was Lee Majors. Then all kinds of good things started to happen for me.
Two BIG things that made the difference for me:
1) I stopped obsessing over the idea of "having a girlfriend" and just appreciated spending more time hanging out with my female friends, regardless of whether there were any romantic possibilities or not, and
2) Developed and deployed a healthy sense of humor, particularly in regards to being able to laugh at myself. I think this might be THE most important thing. Women love to laugh. Hell, everyone loves a good laugh.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I haven't had a roll in the hay for years, and even I've got the maturity and self-awareness to realize that the fault lies with me and nothing else...
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)that's a judgement call. If we're not "ladies" should we be treated horribly?
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Feel free to replace "ladies" with whichever term you feel applies. (Women, females, ....)
No disrespect intended or implied. I'm just a dude trying to be supportive.
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)Women is the preferred term.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I'm raising a kick ass daughter, am married to an powerful woman, and have become a feminist in my own right. I know that there is power in words and try vigilantly every day to make sure I'm using the right words.
Don't tell anyone but I used to refer to the two genders as "guys" and "girls". I dont do that anymore, even though no ill will was ever meant.
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)or generalizations about broads.
Side note. I've always thought it wrong that when someone is tough, we say they've got balls, but when they're weak we call them a pussy. I was in the delivery room with my wife and vaginas have my utmost respect after seeing what they can do. Once in baseball, I took a foul ball to the stones while wearing a cup and had to be carried out of the game because I passed out. I think we need to flip those sayings. Balls are fragile and vaginas have amazing adaptability.
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)When someone is very brave and strong, I say they have Ovarios.
And isn't language so interesting? You "took a foul ball to the stones"--another references to how strong they are, when your whole comment was attesting to their fragility.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)discounted it with an "Oh, now you're just being a snowflake" attitude. But you are right. There is power in words.
Your daughter is very lucky. She'll be just fine.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)be tricked into getting involved with them. They're clearly deadly dangerous, and if they ever DID get a girlfriend, it is inevitable they would abuse her.
mn9driver
(4,429 posts)On some level, these folks know they are way outside of normal and acceptable in their thinking, but they can find online friends who tell them they arent alone and they are right to think and feel the Crazy.
The Incel community is a perfect example. These men (yes, they are all men as far as I can tell) are nuts in a very twisted and nasty way. Theyve even been banned from some of the anything-goes forums, like reddit. But there are always other places.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)it magnifies mental illnesses and dysfunction. It reinforces self-pity, resentments and fear. The rise or racism and xenophobia is another example.
jimlup
(7,968 posts)that is truly terrorism. Horrible.
If you look a little bit at the psychology it is really about some males feeling inadequate about themselves but I'm sure they (those males) don't get that.
Maraya1969
(22,509 posts)people because he was upset that he remained a virgin through college.
I realize their problems are much bigger than just being able to get laid. And maybe they wouldn't use a prostitute because they look down on these women.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)They have a deluded opinion of themselves and how great they are, so they think they deserve mates way out of their league and think they shouldnt have to do anything but show up and get them.
They are the kind that will only go after the most attractive (by societies shallow standards) women. Anything else is beneath them.
They are the kind in high school that would ignore and even make fun of the cute but slightly chubby girl who had a crush on them while thinking they deserved to be with the popular cheerleaders. And when the girls they go after reject them then its everybodies fault but theirs. They will analyze and blame every single aspect of the situation but their own faults, they are without fault.
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)SunSeeker
(51,784 posts)What they want is a living sex doll. They don't see women as human beings with whom they can have a partnership or relationship as equals. This of course leads to horrid loneliness, isolation and bitterness.
Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)taken down a few months ago that they feel they have a right to sex and it's a man right to rape when they need to. Also that the the vagina is all too powerful and the one thing that men cannot resist, therefore we should have no control of it simply because nature made men physically stronger.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)or sexbot or whatever
I don't even think they want the sex - they want the achievement of being with someone without any work.
They seem to have some type of social disorder where women are objects undignified for any consideration of their feelings - only his matters. The word normal people use to describe this type of male in most dating situations is "creep"
askyagerz
(776 posts)Obviously they want the Stacy and jealous of the Chad.
3s trying to go for superficial 10s. If that's really what they want then they better up their game. Girls dont like whiners. In my experience its more about attitude then looks
ProfessorGAC
(65,334 posts)Too good to pay for it, but everyone else's fault if they're not really a good enough person.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)They are great and amazing and perfect and are just victims of how evil women and society is and thats why they cant get laid.
ProfessorGAC
(65,334 posts)Victims! Indeed.
JHB
(37,163 posts)I read Roger's "manifesto" after his rampage. He evidently thought it would show the "injustice" against him, but something else was plain as day: any time he was even mildly prodded outside his comfort zone (e.g., told to go outside and play with the other kids on the block, or a trip to another country to visit relatives) he completely freaked out.
I couldn't find an instance where he so much as talked to a girl, much less got rejected by anyone. Apparently beautiful women were supposed to just fall at his feet unbidden, which is on par for a guy who was convinced he'd win the lottery because he really wanted it.
He was FUCKED UP. Period. So is anyone deluded enough to think he was some kind of martyr, like the Toronto guy, or anyone who doesn't run full-tilt away from an idiotic self-identification like "incel".
ck4829
(35,096 posts)Cruising the streets, paying the prostitute, taking her somewhere, etc.
These men seem to think they should just sit down somewhere and the first "perfect 10" woman who sees them would 'service' them in every possible way he could think of.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)It is the other way around. Women do not want to have sex with them because they are creeps.
argyl
(3,064 posts)meow2u3
(24,775 posts)Spare me the "incel" and "MRA" bullshit. This guy is nothing but a misogynistic terrorist and should be treated as such!
SunSeeker
(51,784 posts)IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)The people killed probably had nothing to do with this asshole or his whiny first world problems.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)Women are afraid men will kill them. As true as ever.
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)+1
question everything
(47,568 posts)for the same reason.
Cannot remember the specifics.
handmade34
(22,759 posts)question everything
(47,568 posts)cungar2000
(98 posts)Who can't believe they're not asked out by Elite models.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)niyad
(113,771 posts)these bastards think they are OWED sex and attention from women?? and they can take, rape, violate, whomever they please in retaliation?
where in the ******* hell do they think they are?
RockRaven
(15,062 posts)these "incels" spend on analyzing their situation, creating their own vocabulary, writing posts, etc. and they still miss the direction of causation. They're not like that because they're lonely, they're lonely because they are like that.
Their introspection blind spot would almost be funny if they weren't so f-ing harmful/dangerous.
struggle4progress
(118,379 posts)brooklynite
(94,911 posts)Corvo Bianco
(1,148 posts)Johnny2X2X
(19,253 posts)This group is sick and it's Conservative ideology at work. They view women as less than men and lash out because they aren't getting the one thing they think women owe them, sex.
I cannot begin to describe my disgust for these people.
And hint, maybe a big part of the reason you aren't getting laid is that you don't respect women.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)Doodley
(9,163 posts)as women. This isn't just about hatred of women. The guy is obviously mentally ill and that he might have anger issues for not getting laid says more about his state of mind as a functioning human being than as a woman hater.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Dude, no woman wants to have sex with you because you act like an asshole.
Afromania
(2,771 posts)catbyte
(34,514 posts)Misogyny and entitlement all wrapped up in one despicable little ball. Of course, it's OUR fault, never theirs.
Runningdawg
(4,527 posts)Who knows how many dead serial killers also felt this way...
IronLionZion
(45,615 posts)should bother people more than it does. If other demographics felt frustrated with their lives and decided to go on spree killings, we would have a very different type of response and conversation about this problem.
Feminists are perpetually frustrated with men. If feminists went on mass murder sprees of random men, we would have a very different response to this problem.
But entitled white males? thoughts and prayers.
ansible
(1,718 posts)Guys getting a reality check when they find out that women aren't like the porn stars they saw on the internet go mad. This guy isn't even particularly exceptional aside from his van attack, there are entire online communities dedicated to the inability to get laid and being extremely mad as a result.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)This is not the first time, or even second time this has happened.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/pennsylvania.gym.shooting/
Squinch
(51,075 posts)mass shooters? They all have previous histories as violent sexual or domestic abusers. Even the young ones in high schools tend to have some history of abuse of females or at least a very developed and overt fantasy scape of abusing women.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Of mass shooters. They feel entitled to a certain lifestyle, and when they don't get it, they go an kill people.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)calimary
(81,565 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 28, 2018, 03:15 AM - Edit history (1)
Were receptacles for the Almighty Penis, and then receptacles for their seed. Thats our main value.
Uppity women who are in charge of their own lives and who find their own worth as WAY more than just passive, open, convenient containers - have no value in that backward-thinking cultural metric.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)BE LESS CREEPY
Every woman I have ever known (myself included) has a built in creep detector..
FSogol
(45,579 posts)They never learned to interact with others, especially members of the opposite sex.
Amaryllis
(9,526 posts)It's women's fault they don't get sex because women won't give it to them.
pansypoo53219
(21,005 posts)AwakeAtLast
(14,134 posts)If you volunteer to be an asshole, you are volunteering to forego sex. That shouldn't be hard to figure out.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)If you're super creepy or show the slightest bit of control. No one will date you.
I'll admit I'm still a virgin and haven't had the best success in relationships, but I don't blame women like these idiots do. It's just how you are and how you come off.
Iggo
(47,586 posts)Sorry, guys. You don't have an inalienable right to stick your penis in someone else.