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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDuckworth proposes rule allowing babies on Senate floor
The Illinois Democrat has submitted a resolution this week that would allow senators to bring a child under one year old to the Senate floor during votes, which they currently cannot do.
"After many positive, constructive conversations with her colleagues on both sides of the aisle, Sen. Duckworth is glad to be able to offer this legislation to ensure no senator with an infant is prevented from performing their constitutional responsibilities -- and send a message that working parents everywhere deserve family-friendly workplace policies," said Kaitlin Fahey, Duckworth's chief of staff, in a statement provided to CNN on Monday. "She is optimistic that this will be resolved quickly."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/politics/tammy-duckworth-senate-baby-pregnant/index.html
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)agree with this. Should they be accommodated close by under the care of a trusted aid so the Mother can nurse. Sure. But crying newborns on the Senate floor? Really? Ummm, NO Sorry...
thewhollytoast
(318 posts)What with Turtle-Boy, Lindsey Graham and the rest of them already behaving like children I doubt a new-born will hardly be noticed. Plus, having new-born constituent present might remind the Senate of just exactly who they should be working for.
Toast
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)Common sense needs to win out occasionally. We can accommodate new parents without disrupting EVERYTHING.
thewhollytoast
(318 posts)Toast
Volaris
(10,278 posts)But this will be about breastfeeding, and therefore, about what crusty, repressed, Old White Men think breasts are for (not that, in case you haven't been paying attention).
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)including cameras clicking away, lights, etc.
And usually nursing infants aren't crying - they can't cry and nurse at the same time. Old white men will adjust to the idea of being in the presence of a baby while getting things done.
I assume they would prefer that she pump while on the Senate floor?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)continues to send to Congress.
I would add that your point about bright lights, clicking cameras, and general commotion argues even further why infants and children have no business on the floor of the Senate--for THEIR sake. That's hardly a soothing environment for THEM.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)What kind of process is it?
It's not like there are going to ever be a gaggle of infants on the floor at once.
I've been in board meetings with a nursing mother, and it was a small conference room.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It didn't take long and the nanny took the baby shortly thereafter.
The Senate floor is HUGE.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)WE pay these Senators/Congressmen to do the people's business. Accommodating does not mean letting OUR BUSINESS stop when a nursing/infant room can/SHOULD be accommodated just off the Senate floor
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A baby can't nurse and cry at the same time.
As I said - once the nursing is done, the baby can be taken back to the office....
Again - do you think that the Senate would prefer she pump on the Senate floor?
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)And babies don't suddenly stop nursing so they can cry instead. They gradually take fewer and fewer sucks till they fall asleep.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Any "accomodation" that requires them to leave the floor, isn't an accomodation.
Is that clearer?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)for the few minutes needed to vote and then return to the child or have an expresssed breast milk bottle available
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Again.... anything that would take her from the Senate floor is not an "accomodation."
How long do you think it takes to nurse an infant?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)There is no pleasant, quiet, dimly lit little room off the Senate floor. Even the Senate cloakroom is subject to the same sexist rules. All they're offering her is a stinky bathroom.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)out of nothing and give her a private nursing room by the time she has the baby.
And she doesn't need one anyway. Nursing babies are highly portable. That's one of the great advantages of breastfeeding.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)the immediate demand. What is BEST FOR THE CHILD.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)In fact, those droning voices would put even a non-nursing baby to sleep.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)and having her child nearby in a safe accessible environment is the way it should work for both. Accommodation involves some compromise, but it should have as its premise and priority, the BEST course for the child, first and then the Mother.
Funny how I seem more concerned about that infant than many here including those promoting their own unearned self-sanctimony
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)is good or safe for her own infant.
She works in the Senate - why do you think you know more than she does about how "safe" it is?
irisblue
(33,047 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Like those that claim Tammy Duckworth has no clue as to what is and isn't good for her own infant?
Then switch gears and say that it's not about the infant, but the feelings rest of the Senate that's being talked about here...
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Nursing isn't the same as going to the bathroom, and the baby isn't a womans' bladder.
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)Thats what the Cloakroom is. Theres one for each party on each side of the floor. Its literally only as far away and pushing a door and youre on the floor to register your vote with the Clerk and back you go.
Theres also a Senators lounge behind the lobby (its behind the wall the rostrum is on).
There are plenty of places for anyone to go. The Senate has assigned seating. I cant imagine a time or place where anyone is forced to sit in their seat much less with an infant for an extended period of time. Thats just not how the Senate works.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Do you know how long it takes to nurse an infant?
I believe that excuse about why women just can't be happy with what they have was also given when the women in the Senate asked for another bathroom, when there was already one with two stalls closeby, geeze...
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/senate-women-secret-history-113908
The idea that women are being overly demanding in this primarily male institution is not new. But after decades, they are forced to deal with it.
Best to start this battle now, for the next Senator in this situation.
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)I also have three children. I fully understand the needs of infants.
I dont fault or discount her desire for Floor accommodations, I just know that there is rarely ever a time or need for them to actually sit and stay on the Senate Floor. If she wants to make accommodations for that rare time, then I support her.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Considering also that one needs to be 30 to be a Senator, the likelyhood of it being turned into a nursery - as many here seem to be afraid of - is highly unlikely.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)already said the only place she could go under the rules was in the bathroom. He specifically excluded the cloak room. But you can't vote from the cloak room or the bathroom -- which is a disgusting place to nurse -- and that is the point.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)time for a change
I can not believe some of the comments opposing the idea...
And I am a 74 year old guy, who has never personally nursed a baby, if it even matters...
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)This quote particularly from someone who thinks that any woman who would bring a child onto the Senate floor is a bad parent:
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I'm on to the next thread..
Me.
(35,454 posts)and their needs, even here on DU.
Damn women for having babies, what are they thinking!
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A nursing mother would not have to leave the floor to nurse.
Yes, they are also talking about accomodating a parent who is bottle feeding as part of a greater movement in the workplace.
You didn't seem to know that babies who are nursing don't cry.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)a need only the parent can provide for, like nursing.
George II
(67,782 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)of nursing on the Senate floor for a long time. Kristin Gillibrand did, too. And no accommodation was ever made for her. When she had a nursing baby, she had to literally stick her head through the door to vote.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)I've already addressed is bullshit..
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)I find your tactics no longer worth my time.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)coffee time....
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)And there is no reason related to the baby's comfort that Duckworth can't carry the child to her seat on the Senate floor.
The only people with some discomfort might be some old fogies in the area.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)And voting takes minutes the baby can wait.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And if a vote is going on after she starts to nurse?
MichMan
(12,001 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)there will be a "nursing room" created just off the Senate floor.
Also, leaving the Senate floor disqualifies you from any votes during that period.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)The restroom closest to the Senate floor that was set aside for women senators had only two stalls. By 2013, with 20 women in the Senate, restroom traffic jams were commonplace, forcing some of the female senators to traipse to a first-floor restroom far from the chamber. Two additional stalls, an extra sink and more storage space were added in the fall of 2013, after several female senators raised the issue publicly.
Your point?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)One that is best for both mother and child.
You can't tell me they can't repurpose a room near the Senate floor until more appropriate permanent arrangements can be constructed. THAT IS WHAT businesses do all the time.
I care about the child. The Senate floor is not good for THEM.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I think that there's something else going on here than "caring about the child."
Otherwise you would support a new mother having the ability to nurse her child.
But you don't.
You certainly don't trust Tammy Duckworth, who has been on the actual Senate floor and doesn't see it as a danger.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)is beyond dishonest. SHAME ON YOU
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210508857#post45
You also say that those who don't agree with you that the Senate floor is no place for an infant are "not rational"
Classic examples of 'splaining.
xmas74
(29,676 posts)Because most who serve are older and don't have many babies at home.
This is mostly about nursing mothers but to be inclusive in the bill overall is lovely.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"dangerous" with all the noise and people and lights...
Not at all like an airport, outdoor concert, parade, public park...
pangaia
(24,324 posts)xmas74
(29,676 posts)Or any other place.
It's a silly argument. I just don't understand why others can't see if this passes it will set an example for employers across the country.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)where can't they be nursed?
THE HORROR!
xmas74
(29,676 posts)And nursing my baby in my car. A trooper was at the park and knocked on my window. He'd had a complaint about public nudity and indecency. He advised me to find a new place and said there was a bathroom stall if needed.
We've come a long way in seventeen years.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)xmas74
(29,676 posts)The husband stared and the wife screamed when I wasn't hauled off. That's the only reason why I knew who made the complaint.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)that in this case, you attempt to define womanhood as either a mother or like a male politician. There are no two ways. It's that binary thinking that has held back progress. Women will continue to press ALL of the personal and professional buttons with increasing frequency and with great success.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)and nursing is ridiculous as well.
Voting takes minutes the baby can wait.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Seriously?
She's talking about nursing, but she is addressing the larger concerns, long term.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A chamber full of predominately older white GOP men, no less.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-senate-babies-chamber-duckworth-20180418-story.html
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)on the other side.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)who clearly haven't been around one while they were nursing.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"For me to find out that there are issues with the United States Senate's rules where I may not be able to vote or bring my child on to the floor of the Senate when I need to vote because we ban children from the floor, I thought, 'Wow, I feel like I'm living in the 19th century instead of the 21st, and we need to make some of these changes,'"
If there is a need that can be met by a caretaker, then she can vote without the child on the floor.
If there is a need that cannot be met by a caretaker - such as nursing - then she needs to be able to be on the floor during that time.
Is that clearer?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)Nearby, but safe, secure, and calming. THAT IS WHAT TRUE accommodation would be.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Along with any parent that takes their child to a public park, a mall, an outdoor concert, an airport, a parade?
Really?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)one for ALL newborns--not just her own and well into the future. One that is BEST for both mother and child.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And nursing a child is what is best for the child.
All this talk about what is "best for the mother and child" when talking about restricting her is getting very paternalistic.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)if you had.
But it's been obvious from the beginning because your objections weren't reality based.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)That is despicable of you. For all you know, I or others may have lost children, miscarried, or suffered other tragedies. You need to think before you post such.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Like I said, they're not reality based.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)that hey could be close by to nurse, attended by loving staffers, but not subjected to bright lights, chaos, loud noise, tv cameras on the floor of the Senate.
Some loving, protective parent...
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You mean like a Mall is? Or a park?
And the Senate can function with all those disruptions, but not if an infant lets out a cry or two before nursing?
That's "rational?"
And you know the minute any staffer took care of an infant, the deplorables would be ranting about using taxpayer money for childsitting.
It's not the job of staffers, no matter how loving to do this.
You seem to have a very odd view of childcare.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)A few TV cameras in that huge room aren't going to be a big deal for a baby. Neither is the normal Senate lighting or the drone of Senators' voices.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)against what YOU want to subject them to.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Please specify.
And do you think Tammy Duckworth is an irresponsible parent? You seem to imply that.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)reporters with cameras, and people speaking.
I don't want Tammy Duckworth or any other Democratic woman to miss an important Senate vote because she needed to nurse her baby. She shouldn't have to choose, when the solution is as simple as lifting her shirt.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Apparently not.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)or at a park, or at fireworks, or a crowded restaurant, or a parade, or an outdoor concert, or an airport....
Only bad parents do that, apparently.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)Chemisse
(30,821 posts)I wouldn't hesitate to bring a newborn there. It can hardly be more chaotic and loud that walking down a city street. I've actually nursed my baby WHILE walking down a city street!
Most tiny infants are pretty quiet and can sleep through anything; it's the older babies that wake easily at times, and fuzz and coo and make a general racket.
I would assume she would have a nanny there with her to take the baby out of the room when appropriate.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)beneath you, given your total lack of knowledge of me or anyone else
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I can read them.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Calling out someone who takes a very paternalistic view that a woman cannot possibly be "rational" or "protective" of their infant if they think that their workplace is safe for a child.
That plight?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"You need to think before you post..."
And there's the self-inflicted irony of the whole damned week.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)history of childbirth/rearing.
Y
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)significant than anyone elses' here and more to the point matters no more than anyone else's opinion.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You are the one who thinks you know what is best for Tammy and her baby, and she clearly doesn't, even though she's in the Senate every day.
Tell me who's "disingenous as hell."
Cha
(297,935 posts)a baby would be a breath of fresh air
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)This is another example, and they need to get a big dose of reality
Cha
(297,935 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)to nurse, but having crying babies in the workplace is disruptive and annoying. Not a good idea.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)The worst they might do is burp.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)Accommodation does not mean giving up everyone else's rights. Nor does it mean making the infant suffer as a result--just to make a point.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)can nurse her baby under a cotton cover.
Or, if the baby won't nurse, she can hand it to the babysitter who can remove it from the Senate.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"For me to find out that there are issues with the United States Senate's rules where I may not be able to vote or bring my child on to the floor of the Senate when I need to vote because we ban children from the floor,"
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)THAT is a logical and PROTECTIVE Accomodation. You want to subject the infant to harm iMO
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)There used to be few or no bathrooms for women in Senate and House. That had to change, so too must this.
Not by inflicting stress on that poor infant. If you cared, that is what you would be demanding.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Disney Land, and Chuckie Cheezes --that are much less boring than the usual Senate chamber.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sounds like you don't think Duckworth is capable of caring for her infant.
What about those poor infants in airports? Or outdoor concerts? Or shopping malls?
It's amazing that the human race has survived what with all these women not knowing how to care for infants.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)She is merely not looking at the long term solution for OTHERS.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and how anyone who is "concerned" about a baby wouldn't bring it to the floor of the Senate.
Now you are trying to backpedal since you've been called out on your backhanded slamming of her as a mother, who would 'stress out her baby unneccessarily to make your point.
Moving the goalposts....
But still very paternalistic.
And no, you don't have to be a male to have a paternalistic viewpoint.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And you seem to also have gaps in your knowledge about how long it took to even get a WOMEN'S BATHROOM in the Senate...let alone two... 2013!!
"The restroom closest to the Senate floor that was set aside for women senators had only two stalls. By 2013, with 20 women in the Senate, restroom traffic jams were commonplace, forcing some of the female senators to traipse to a first-floor restroom far from the chamber. Two additional stalls, an extra sink and more storage space were added in the fall of 2013, after several female senators raised the issue publicly."
So why do you think that they are suddenly going to create space for "nursing mothers."
And any "accomodation" that requires they leave the floor is not an accomodation.
You seem not to have much understanding about lights and noise and nursing babies..
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)she has been offered is nursing her baby in the bathroom. Oh, that's a wonderful idea.
Anyone who thinks that is welcome to eat their dinner there.
http://www.newsweek.com/tammy-duckworth-may-have-breastfeed-bathroom-senate-floor-says-former-senate-807393
TAMMY DUCKWORTH MAY HAVE TO BREASTFEED IN A BATHROOM OFF THE SENATE FLOOR, SAYS FORMER SENATE PARLIAMENTARIAN
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Again... you seem to be unfamiliar with infants.
And if there are so many other distractions, why do you think that a few cries from an infant will shut everything down?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And going on about "what is best for mother and infant" while talking about restricting her from normal activities with her child is more than a bit paternalistic.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And she works there.
What is so threatening to you about her nursing her child on the floor of the Senate?
Why don't you trust her as a mother?
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's the point of being able to bring her child "to the floor."
Is that clearer?
Chemisse
(30,821 posts)Babies can sleep anywhere.
I'm curious what rights you think that other people are giving up in order to accommodate a mother and baby.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)even if temporary until a more permanent construction is the appropriate accommodation if you care about the child's welfare as well as Tammy's rights to nurse.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)bring their babies almost anywhere?
They have to, because nursing babies want to nurse around the clock. And most mothers don't want to be trapped in their houses 24/7. That apparently is where you think they should be, so they'd be nice and safe.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)Accommodations should benefit both mother and child and that is what I proposed. Further it takes into account future needs which you apparently want to cede/ignore.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You apparently seem to ignore that she works there. Why do you know more than she does about the Senate, and what is good for her infant? Her opinion is far, far more informed than yours is on the issue.
That's a bit paternalistic, isn't it?
I have has similar discussions with pro-lifer's who say that they know what is best for the woman, more so that she does....
Response to ehrnst (Reply #132)
Post removed
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A paternalistic point of view on this issue can be promoted by male or female.
Is that clearer?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)There are things called breast pumps for the times you just cant nurse.
Everywhere is not baby appropriate.
Heres an idea if you are thinking of having a baby how about you think of these issues and plan for them in advance instead of making everyone around you conform to your decision.
Raised three babies and I find the idea everyone should be inconvenienced by your decision ridiculous.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Nonsense.
Women have always been told that their silly whims concerning the children are "inconveniencing" the men be it nursing, affordable, accessible childcare, or flex time.
That's how they kept women out of the workplace completely for centuries.
Men will always find some reason that their "inconveniences" are tanatamount to being deprived of oxygen... and a woman feeding her child is such a disruption.
That cannot be allowed!!!!!!!!!!
In other news, teenaged girls are being sent home from school because their bodies are "distracting" teenage boys...
Same shit, different verse.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)a child to her breast? Is it the danger caused by the stampede of offended men running away from said person? Is it the pain of averting ones eyes? The horror of icky thoughts? Where is the inconvenience?
Chemisse
(30,821 posts)Throwing out every argument you can think of, however unrealistic, except the real one that bothers you so much.
Perhaps your only experience with babies has been seated next a screaming one on a five-hour flight and that's all you think they do?
I knew several men who were acutely uncomfortable to be in the same room with me while I was (very discretely) nursing one of my babies. Sitting rigidly, eyes veered away, breaking out in a cold sweat (I made that up, but it does describe the level of discomfort). There probably would have been more, but they couldn't tell I was breastfeeding. Perhaps you have a terror of glimpsing a breast portion that is involved in an asexual activity?
mcar
(42,439 posts)I know the Senate is dysfunctional but what do you even mean by this? You do realize you are insinuating that Senator Duckworth is a bad parent for proposing this right?
greatauntoftriplets
(175,766 posts)My niece's six-month-old can sleep just fine in the middle of a brightly lit room filled with people talking in loud voices and children running indoors and out.
You might say that she sleeps like a baby.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)in the mouth makes almost any baby stop crying.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Other countries manage a stable government with nursing mothers....
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98699747/new-zealands-new-babyfriendly-parliament
MichMan
(12,001 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)she doesn't want to deprive others of feeding their babies. And it really doesn't matter. A baby with a bottle or nipple in its mouth isn't crying.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)However, other countries don't seem to have a problems with nursing mothers doing the work of government:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98699747/new-zealands-new-babyfriendly-parliament
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/icelandic-mp-breastfeeds-baby-debate-parliament-al-ingi-a7358681.html
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)nursing/child-birthing history and thus can't possibly know. You were NOT so disingenuous as others here and I respect your difference of opinion. What others are doing is just the most debased form of debate, since they think they can't hold their own opinion without trying to diminish others and their experiences. Kudos to you.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)and said they cold arrest me and my three kids if they chose...the police said there is not law against nursing so security backed down. I am pretty militant about this because often is used as tool to discriminate.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I'd rather have the rare but occasional crying baby than the constantly bitching, lying, traitorous republicans.
The Senate floor is usually empty anyway. I see no problem with it.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)just as it would at any business. Maybe the Senate could have a nursery in the building, so the babies would be accessible easily. That's what some businesses provide.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)When she was done, her nanny took the sleeping baby.
How would that interfere with the "function of the Senate" in that huge room where many wouldn't even really see the baby?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)be false memories.
That's just what I think. But I don't have a vote. I would vote against babies in the Senate, or any place like that where the state's business is being conducted. It would be disruptive.
But a nursery in the building should be fine. The Senator could leave & go check on the baby.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Somehow I doubt that.
Was there someone who could take the baby once they were done nursing? Probably not - a church service isn't something one leaves and re-enters, much like a workplace.
The Senator must be on the floor for all votes. Any accomodation that requires her to leave the floor is not an accomodation.
She's not talking about turning the Senate into a nursery full of crying babies, she just wants the ban on kids lifted for her situation, and to start a conversation about family friendly workplaces.
How does NZ do it, you think?
New Zealand's new baby-friendly Parliament
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98699747/new-zealands-new-babyfriendly-parliament
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)is provide their milk, stored, for use later. You don't need to nurse at particular times, anymore. This is hte 21st century.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Anyone who has pumped would know that.
This is the 21st century and we should be gearing our workplaces to be parent friendly.
The era where you had a full time homemaker doing all that parenting stuff while you work is over.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....and Duckworth is the first Senator to give birth, I would think this isn't going to happen too often.
It's not like the Senate chambers will be converted into a nursery.
FSogol
(45,579 posts)mainer
(12,037 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Babies have no business being in a workplace. She wants to bring the baby to work? Fine. She can keep it in her office with a babysitter. But in an actual workplace a baby would only cause disturbances.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)But they do fine in offices, as long as there is another caretaker who can take the baby to a private place if needed.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)places--including stressful environs with bright lights, loud noises, and disruption.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)it's pretty boring.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)except if there is an infant present?
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)They won't even be able to see it from parts of the floor.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)Babies don't do what you want them to do. You can't reason with babies. If they feel disturbed, they cry.
There is a Youtube-video where a baby is so horrified by ITS OWN FART that it starts to cry.
Now imagine a baby in a room with 100 talking people and cameras and lights.
Have you ever tried to concentrate while a baby cries?
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)It's actually simple: You put a baby into a giant room with 100 talking people and a gavel and cameras and lights and when the baby makes trouble, you simply switch it off!!!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)A baby usually falls asleep after nursing.
A baby can nurse peacefully in a noisy situation, and indeed often fall asleep with a full belly in a noisy situation.
The baby can be taken away once the nursing is done.
Is that clearer?
Tarc
(10,478 posts)I'm sure all the women here are smacking their foreheads in relief and thanking you for your well-honed insight.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)even if they've just breastfeed a few minutes earlier. Done. The baby's now quiet.
It IS like magic, to an experienced mother. And Duckworth has done this before.
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Since they're so inconvenient. Or maybe women folk just shouldn't be in congress.
Pro lifers want it both ways. All pregnancies MUST come to term. And then they never want to hear from them again.
Time for fucking reality, people who want to control women's bodies.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Amazing the paternalistic attitudes that show themselves even amongst liberals when babies enter the discussion.
The discomfort that some people have with presence of babies often manifests itself in "concern for the welfare of the child."
Just like "I'm just concerned about the welfare of the child" is still whipped out whenever women want affordable childcare to return to work.
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Suddenly its all about The Children!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)After years of putting their education last on the list in budgeting.
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Hypocrites.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)and the mom is holding them, they quietly move their faces back and forth, rubbing their faces on the mother's chest till the mother puts them on the nipple again. There is no reason to cry if the mother is right there. The baby "roots" around -- it doesn't cry because the mother responds to its signals.
Unlike with a bottle fed baby, whose mother might have to leave to go into the kitchen, prepare and warm a bottle, etc.
Have you ever breastfeed a single baby? I doubt it.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Sorry, I gotta disagree. Babies are just as disruptive in offices as they are anywhere else.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Unless, of course, you've discovered a means to keep them from yowling bloody murder between the hours of 7:30 AM and 6:30 PM, Mon - Fri.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Unless something has changed in the last day or so.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)As if babies nurse 24/7 and never cry
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)As if anyone nurses 24 hours a day, and it's such a disruption to the work of men.
Strawman much?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Unless something has changed in the last day or so.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and is in the care of a provider the rest of the time.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Wheels of state? We're not talking about the Senate floor, here. We're talking about workplaces. No working stiff in my socio-economic bracket is going to be picking their infant up from daycare every time it needs to feed.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Do you object because she is highly paid? Is that what your "working stiff" comment is about?
And no, she's not talking about all workplaces, or turning the Senate into a nursery, for pete's sake.
The amount of slippery slope teeth gnashing about an infant is amazing here on DU.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)obamanut2012
(26,181 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)(Cue - but when I'm on an airplane, shrieking babies in the cabin on the whole flight make me miserable, and that's how it's gonna be all day in an office with one of them nursing!" )
Soxfan58
(3,479 posts)Drooling, spiting, and pooping in its diaper. They will think jeff sessions is back.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Seriously, I would like to know. Because kids come into my workplace, and they are not a problem. Perhaps my workplace has policies that address them as sometimes being present by necessity.
Is someone nursing there? Is that's what is disruptive?
Is the fact that they are allowed into the workplace what is disruptive?
Because they are banned from the Senate floor, and Duckworth is trying to address the ban, not turn the Senate floor into a nursery or playground.
There is a long continuum between the two.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)People stop working and start talking. Kids run around and make noise, and get into places they shouldn't. They are bored and need to be supervised. I am trying to have a business phone call in my cube and there are child-parent conversations going on in the background. Babies cry and scream, because that's what babies do.
I don't mind people bringing their children by for a few minutes. But they should not be regulars in an office where adults are doing business on the phone and don't need to be interrupted/distracted.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)How often do co-workers talk in the background where you can hear them?
Is it just "child parent" conversations going on? Are others silent?
Are screaming babies "regulars?"
What is the policy in your workplace of noise in general - is there one in writing? Are people in cubicles expected to be silent?
Is your workplace considered "family friendly?" Are there policies in place that allow people to bring children to work?
Were these policies known to you when you were hired - are they in writing?
Do you have children?
All of these things factor into your workplace situation, and your place within it.
Seriously - if there were no policies in place concerning noise in cubicle areas, then you should take it to HR.
You also need to understand that there are some things that HR can and cannot do, and much depends on written policies. This is one example of a comprehensive policy:
https://www.swarthmore.edu/human-resources/children-workplace
Blaming parents who have no policies or guidance or worse, children who are being children, for ineffective HR management is misplaced and futile. If employees are violating policy, then you have an avenue of recourse by going to HR. If HR is ineffective, then you have recourse by appealing to upper management.
If the situation is unaddressed by management and HR, you have the decision to stay and tolerate it, or leave.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)But there are rules that have to be followed:
They have to have a separate workspace that is dedicated to doing their job.
If there are children under 12 in the home, there must be adult supervision of the child. And it is understood that the worker cannot be working and caring for the child. If you do not have a supervising adult for your child and need to do it yourself, you cannot also be considered working. You are either taking care of a child or you are working. You cannot be doing both.
If its that way at home, its much more so in the office, where other adults are also trying to work.
Family friendly means understanding that parents sometimes need the flexibility to stay home with sick family members or take time off if they do not have child care. It does not mean that you should be allowed to care for your children while you are actually at work.
People do not bring their children to the workplace when they are working, although they may bring them in for a few minutes when they are not working.
Whether or not I have children is utterly irrelevant to whether I can do my job when there are children in my workplace.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But then you said this:
Or is it only a few minutes of disruption?
Mariana
(14,861 posts)Vinca
(50,323 posts)Once born they're noisy, expensive and generally things to be avoided. Mitch will probably tell her to resign and go home and be a mother to her child . . . seriously. I can hear him saying it.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)that was my immediate thought....
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)which is to stay home until the child goes to school, or she's a bad mother.
And she must also, at the same time make enough money to not require public assistance, or she's a bad mother.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)says former Senate Parliamentarian.
http://www.newsweek.com/tammy-duckworth-may-have-breastfeed-bathroom-senate-floor-says-former-senate-807393
If expectant mother and Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth needs to breastfeed her newborn on the job, she's out of luckand her best options include a bathroom just off the Senate floor, according to a former Senate parliamentarian.
"The Standing Rules govern who has floor privileges," Alan Frumin, who served as Senate parliamentarian for 19 years, told Newsweek. "Family members do not have floor privileges."
That includes nursing infants.
SNIP
"The lack of any sort of policy or accommodation for new mothers suggests that the U.S. Congress remains a bastion of patriarchy on its face," Jennifer Lawless, the director of Women & Politics told Newsweek.
SNIP
There are two Senate rules in particular that can make things difficult for new parents, and nursing mothers especially: Senate Rule 23, which excludes family members from the list of people admitted to the Senate floor, and Senate Rule 12, which requires senators to be present to vote.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Ilsa
(61,710 posts)The Russell SOB is closer, but not by far.
I think a nursing room should be installed centrally in the Capitol Building. It would be useful for visitors as well as other govt employees.
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)Its the Congressional Womens Lounge.
Ilsa
(61,710 posts)even a rocker? That would be really great, IMO.
I don't know how this will turn out, but I appreciate what she is trying to do. She is trying to invoke the most pro-family health position, but I doubt the Senate will let her. Sadly, I think it is still a good ol' boys club.
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)But theres a couch and chairs
Its the ante room of the old House Floor. Historically, its where John Quincy Adams died.
Ilsa
(61,710 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No?
Then it's not an accomodation.
The workplace is traditionally set up for men who have a full time domestic at home to handle childcare and other womanly distaff.
If a woman seeks an actual accomodation, then she's trying to DESTROY THE WORKPLACE FOR MEN!!!
Action_Patrol
(845 posts)Im not arguing with you.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)unblock
(52,440 posts)That's at least half of the republican caucus.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,487 posts)TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)If you allow this, next thing you know is that all the Republicans will be bringing babies on floor as props for every anti-abortion debate.
thewhollytoast
(318 posts)....to make them look like desperate buffoons they are. I say let the babies in.
Toast
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Not so hard, was that?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)sandensea
(21,711 posts)They're nothing if not shameless - and theatrical.
Ilsa
(61,710 posts)It would be useful to visitors and other employees. It could be a quiet room for moms with napping babies and toddlers.
A bathroom is not a good place to nurse. It's difficult to stimulate a let-down reflex in a room that smells like human waste.
hlthe2b
(102,494 posts)(which has been in my profile since 2001) had there been a doubt.
The point is we need to support Senate/Congressional new mothers and their need to breastfeed and have reasonable leave policies, including the ability to come in and out of votes, if needed. Why that can't be the starting premise for consensus dismays me. Not all settings (or infants) are amenable to the same solutions.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Some people forget that....
Mariana
(14,861 posts)She has to be physically present on the Senate floor to do her job. Fortunately, the Senate have voted to allow her baby into the room.
dsc
(52,172 posts)since then a Senator could bring Trump on the floor.
Best post on this (sure to be epic) thread
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Trust me, the infant/toddler rooms are far from quiet, calm, darkened rooms. They're chaotic and unpredictable, and because of state regulations, highly lit. We, child care workers, try our best to take a mothers (or fathers) "place" but there is nothing more soothing for an infant than to be in the arms of his/her mother. The senate floor is not going to harm that child, they are highly resilient, especially in infancy. Pretty sure there will be alternative in place just in case that child should make any males in that large room uncomfortable or cause a "disturbance". Toddlers, however, have no place in that environment imo, they're much too active and inquisitive. Senator Duckworth is not a first time mother, she'll know when it's time for her child's care to be passed to capable hands. At present that infant needs to be with her, and not in a nasty bathroom.
As a two time nursing mother....I stand with Tammy!
marieo1
(1,402 posts)They let criminals in congress why not let babies that are nursing in congress. Makes sense to me!! More working new Mothers now than ever before, we should accommodate them.
Sneederbunk
(14,319 posts)flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Please tell me that was sarcasm
Sneederbunk
(14,319 posts)S.E. TN Liberal
(508 posts)...to let republican'ts on the floor also.
Afromania
(2,771 posts)and place it in an out of the way spot off to the side and call it the day. There should be no need for some damn resolution for it to be done, but since there is a need because people are stupid. They need to put this on the hyper speed track and vote it through.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Sorry babies do not belong on the senate floor.
Voting takes minutes the baby can wait.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Feeding infants is woman's distaff and has no place among the affairs of men....
And do you know how long it takes to nurse a baby? And if a vote is taken when she starts?
Men cannot be bothered with such trivial matters - even if they claim such trivial things will bring the work of statecraft to a screeching halt.
Fuck that. Women are in the workplace, and men need to grow the fuck up.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)and she isn't asking for feeding she is asking children be allowed on the floor. Meanwhile I have three kids of my own I know full well what babies are and aren't and the idea they need to be fed on demand immediately is nonsense.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)All of my children were breast fed and we also (gasp) owned a breast pump. Children do not need to be fed instantly ever. The time it takes to vote is not long enough to require special consideration beyond holing the vote open.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)I had one, too, and rarely used it.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)it certainly is not the preferred way of doing it.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)It takes a while to nurse, and to pump when you are away from the baby.
The point, which you seem to miss, is that women can breastfeed without bringing government, or a place of business to a halt, which seems to be the fear here.
Progressive justice, particularly on the part of what is best for women, is usually met with howls of protest that society will be forever damaged - be it the vote, working outside the home, being allowed contraception, having their own bank accounts, participating in the military, running for office...
One more in a long line of temper tantrums on the part of men.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)children do not belong on the floor of the senate.
And there is no need for them to be there.
Babies are anoying as hell they don't belong in the workplace. If you are bringing your child to the workplace you are either cheating your child or your work as you can't do both effectively at the same time. not to mention the disruption to the other employees.
And you don't pump on demand you pump in advance for situations that arise so you are prepared for them. Things like say a surprise vote.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)If you are not on the floor, you don't vote.
She is asking in general terms that this be the start of workplaces accepting that sometimes there will be children's needs to attend to.
Do you really think that she's asking to bring her other child in as well?
You people sound like Duckworth is trying to turn the Senate floor into a nursery.
It's rather easy for those who haven't breast fed to splain to those who are, and are trying to pave the way for family friendly workplaces.
Clearly.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Hard to believe, I know, but not everyone wants to spend their workday hanging out with your larva.
The arrogance and presumption of parents knows no fucking bounds.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)and that they were once annoying babies themselves -- knows no fucking bounds.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Well, you've clearly put a lot of thought into this.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)full participation in the Senate, in a way that harms no one except in the most trivial sense.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)It is about the "workplace", where the presence of children is decidedly less trivial.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)from voting. And the precedent will help other breastfeeding Senators.
The affect on the other Senators' experiences will be minimal.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I was not replying to the OP. I was replying to a poster talking about "the workplace".
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)As indicated. Already. Several times.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Yes?
Like the Senate.
Yes?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Are all workplaces Senates or Parliaments?
It's OK. I'll wait.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Again, Parliament is a workplace. As is the Senate - which is the topic of this thread, and where Duckworth works. We are not talking about operating rooms or factory floors, but the Senate. Parliament is similar to the Senate.
What is the "fallacy of composition?"
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Are all workplaces legislative assemblies?
The answer is no. Not all workplaces are legislative assemblies. So, when you say people should be bringing their infants to the workplace, you are talking about bringing infants to 1) legislative assemblies, and 2) all other workplaces that are not legislative assemblies.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Strawman - I made no claims about "all workplaces" or "all parents with infants."
*You* were talking about "workplaces" in general, not me. I was comparing the Senate to New Zealand's Parliament.
I was supporting Tammy Duckworth, who was successful in getting a *ban* lifted, in a specific type of workplace - like Parliament.
Is that clearer?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)This implies that the presence of women in the workplace is reasonably entailed by the presence of infants.
I apologize if that's not what you meant, but that is how it came across.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Many men in the past have decried that women should not be in the workplace as peers, because "they will just leave when they get married" or they are "a distraction."
Often, things like "OMG they'll turn the place into a nursery, see how unreasonable they are?" are a modern excuse for their discomfort of women in the workplace.
Is that clearer?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Apologies.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)what a gem
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)or in any place of business for that matter.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)And aside from being bored to death, the Senate floor is not a dangerous place.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Take your kid to work day is a thing for a reason.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)First, in our entire 240 year history only ONE member of the Senate has given birth - ONE! From probably thousands of Senators over the years.
Next, the possibilities of additional members of the Senate giving birth are slight to say the least. One can't serve in the Senate until 30 years of age, well into the childbearing years, and most women (and men) don't even try to get elected to the Senate until they're in their 40s or 50s, possibly long after they're interested in having children.
So, just how many infants will there be in the Senate? Not many at all. There's no danger of the Senate being converted into a nursery or day care center.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)I wouldn't have expected this reaction from progressives.
George II
(67,782 posts)From 1787 through 2014, there have been 1,950 senators TOTAL. Of them, only 51 have been women. That's 51 Senators who have had the possibility of giving birth over TWO HUNDRED THIRTY YEARS!!!!
I won't even get into the age that some were when they were elected, but this is no big deal.
By the way, this was the first woman to serve in the Senate, she wasn't exactly to have a baby and nurse it in the Senate!
Squinch
(51,075 posts)And corn flake fried chicken, and Olive Garden.
Response to mucifer (Original post)
Egnever This message was self-deleted by its author.
50 Shades Of Blue
(10,085 posts)mokawanis
(4,455 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)The operating room? But at least the patient would have the advantage of general anesthesia, but then might not wake up.
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)I just did!
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)to underscore my annoyance at what struck me as an impractical and posturing move.
If you disagree I hope it doesnt mean we cant be friends because I do appreciate many of your posts on DU.
Peace,
MD
pnwmom
(109,021 posts)I usually forget who I've had disagreements with, don't you?
Mme. Defarge
(8,058 posts)pnwmom
(109,021 posts)I remember appreciating it sometimes with my mother-in-law. The older she got, the more she seemed to retain the happier memories instead of the bad ones.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)From wanting to lift a ban on bringing a child into the Senate, and then into an operating room in one sentence...
Squinch
(51,075 posts)Squinch
(51,075 posts)to the Senate floor. How many Senators have children under one?
This isn't a slippery slope. Just let her feed the kid and vote for our policies!
MichMan
(12,001 posts)Nothing in the OP says anything other than 1 year old babies should be allowed on the Senate floor.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)floor, it would be weird, and it would only be done to say, "Look, I can do it too and see what you have caused here?" But so he carries his grandchild to the floor and then - what?
Nothing. He looks stupid and that's the end of it
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Not that that is my objection to it.
I think it is nothing more than pandering to be honest. There is no need for her baby to be with her while voting. Nor is it really appropriate for the baby to be there during voting. Your concentration at that point should be singularly on your vote a baby is a distraction.
Breast pumps exist for situations where you just cant be there to breast feed. I just don't see the need as legitimate. More convenient to be sure but even remotely necessary I am not seeing it.
Anywhere else in the building I am in but on the floor itself.. nope.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)their belief that it is not legitimate, and their desire that it not be done where they can see it, whether that be in Olive Garden or on the Senate floor.
But most of us, judging by the vote result, see that fear for what it is.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Breast feeding does not bother me a bit. It's the screaming baby part in a place where work is being done.
If they just breast fed the whole time there would be no issue since they would be quiet and wouldn't bother a soul.
But the reality is they don't just feed they scream and wail disturbing everyone.
Anywhere else in the building I am good with. Not on the floor.
All of my kids were breast fed exclusively the idea breast feeding bothers me is laughable.
Would not have it any other way.
It's because all my children were breast fed that this bullshit they need to be on the floor does not fly.
I am well aware of what comes with breast feeding and the issues you face.
Squinch
(51,075 posts)It's a sure path to chaos and anarchy. And, as you said upthread, such an inconvenience to YOU!
Response to Squinch (Reply #323)
Post removed
Squinch
(51,075 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)issue than many here.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-senate-babies-chamber-duckworth-20180418-story.html
mcar
(42,439 posts)How embarrassing for some in this thread.
LAS14
(13,790 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)haele
(12,688 posts)a Brazilian MP breastfed during debates and in the chamber as early as 2015, why do our US male politicians seem so squeamish?
Haele