why is it ok to call me a redneck?

[RedRocco]

when its not ok to use slurs to refer to other other groups?

[BeyondGeography]

1. Why is it ok for you to accuse the whole world of calling you a redneck?

(Some context would help.)

[Bake]

61. I don't think he did that.

In fact, I'm pretty sure he didn't. Stop being defensive.

Bake

[BeyondGeography]

62. Who knows what Mr. Hit and Run really meant

Try not to get sucked in.

[RedRocco]

65. sorry, I had to step out

some of do have a life beyond the net you know...

my point is this

how is calling me, or any other lower class white person from the south, redneck, any different than calling a black person nigger or a Hispanic wetback or beaner?

[BeyondGeography]

78. To me it's a lot more narrow a reference than those slurs

See Art from Ark., reply #40, e.g.

Not buying the equivalency, esp. in terms of the human suffering that has resulted from hate directed at these three groups. There's a whole lot of history that tells us that.

That said, it's a stereotype that I, and most others here, avoid.

[dogknob]

156. What do all of these have in common?

Spik, wop, nigger, kike, chink, paki, beaner, jigaboo, porch-monkey...

These are all derogatory terms used to belittle a person based entirely upon their ethnic background.

Redneck is not on the list because that term is primarily used to belittle a person based upon their actions and beliefs. When a person displays racist, anti-intellectual, willfully ignorant, xenophobic, jingoistic behavior on a regular basis, I am going to refer to them in a derogatory fashion because they fucking deserve it; they are truly a lesser form of human life.

[Go Vols]

241. Well,Bless your heart

I have been referred to as a redneck or hillbilly solely based on my accent.

What should I refer to you as due to your extreme ignorance?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

157. Because rednecks like to use the n word

like you just, Mr. Redneck.

[arely staircase]

167. what should i call this guy?

[Tsiyu]

220. Fred Phelps calls himself a Christian

Do all Christian DUers also believe in a hate-filled Gawd?

Should I judge all Christian DUers on the lowest common denominator aka Phelps as you judge all "rednecks" based on this one guy?

[arely staircase]

222. i will put this as politely as possible

I am guessing you were not born and raised in the deep south and therefore do not understand that the guy in the picture is more representative of people who use the word redneck to describe themselves than Phelps is of Christianity -which is not at all.

[Tsiyu]

224. I'm guessing I've spent the past 40 years

living in the guts of the South. There was a time that I would have been the LAST person on earth to defend anything about the South. Then I grew up.

I have also traveled a fair amount, in and out of the US.

People is people. There are folks in Detroit and New Hampshire more Johnny Reb than my neighbors.

But if it feeds some innate human need, continue to feel superior to poor Appalachians and rural working class folks. You know, they're all the same. They all look the same, act the same, can't tell one from the other...

This is somehow comforting to some, and I find it absolutely a fascinating facet of human nature: no matter the level of education some have, they must have an "enemy."

I am no better, I just look down on everyone who is clueless....so I don't like anyone lol

[arely staircase]

226. if you think redneck is a

Slur to southern whites, poor or otherwise, in most of the south then, with all due respect, you weren't paying attention. Appalachia is a different story. Apparently there it is a put down. But it is not in the greater part of the old Confederacy it just simply isn't considered an insult by southern whites. I too have lived in the deep south for over forty years and what you are saying simply isn't the truth.

You know Jeff foxworthy is.right? Who do you think bought all of his CDs and DVDs? Where do you think his tours sold the most tickets? White working class Southerners made that guy a millionaire for telling redneck jokes. Your position is simply untenable.

[Tsiyu]

230. I never said it was taken as an insult by all rednecks

However, I do have an objection to the classification of poor and working class rural people as all "voting against their self-interest," and I have an objection to pretending that they are the source of the progressive's problems, that they are all racist, rightwingers, etc.

It's like saying all upper class people are elitist Republicans, or that all people living in the projects belong to gangs.

Someone can be near toothless, living in a trailer, driving a junker and also be someone who reads good literature and votes for Democrats. Amazing but true!

Whatever moniker you choose, lumping all of any one type of people together is going to be counter-productive and will make a mockery of whatever education one chooses to claim.

People are far more multi-faceted than our stereotypes would let on.

[Go Vols]

234. white trash?

[Enrique]

2. because it's funny

it would not be ok if it were used in a mean way. I haven't heard it used that way.

[Evasporque]

63. and...if one is a "Teabilly Fuckstick" then Redneck is appropriate....nt

[samsingh]

3. you can stop being a redneck

get some education, do some meaningful work, support society, don't vote repug.

[RedRocco]

66. I know many people that many here would classify as redneck

that are educated and do those things

[Bertha Venation]

77. Damn right. My wife is one.

I'm with you, RedRocco.

[samsingh]

85. it's only one aspect of it. it's also about how they form, argue, and stick to their opinions

i think there's something about a family tree with no branches

[antigone382]

123. So the assumption that poor Southerners..yes, even those with different political opinions...

Are inbred subhumans is somehow OK? Or the jokes about toothlessness and illiteracy? Those are OK?

Redneck is a classist, derogatory term with a classist, derogatory history. I don't claim it's at the same level as slurs against other disadvantaged groups, but it is a slur.

[RedRocco]

140. thats the point I was trying to make in my own ham handed way

[samsingh]

235. i think you're being too sensitive

no job positions or opportunities are withheld from red necks. there is no institutionalized limitations on redneck progress.

It's a choice to be a redneck.

[samsingh]

237. actually i don't think all southerners are rednecks

[BOG PERSON]

204. i don't think you've met many rednecks

[samsingh]

236. only what i see on tv

[antigone382]

134. No you can't.

(copied and pasted, to save myself time) The slur "redneck" was originally used against union coal miners in response to the red bandanas they wore to show solidarity. "Redneck" is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[whathehell]

163. Is that why the South is so anti-union?

[antigone382]

170. Use a slur long enough and it sticks.

There sure as hell was strong union activism here as late as the 1980's, and it sure as hell was the subject of an intense propaganda war that has won for now. Don't doubt that there are still fighters here.

[whathehell]

183. Sorry, but that's a lame excuse.

They used MORE than "slurs" on the union fighters of the north -- They effing KILLED them*.

and it didn't stop the the North from becoming a unionized industrial powerhouse from the

Post War Forties, until the early Eighties when Reagan started a long war on unions.

My father was a union organizer, and so poor when he was young, he had to quit school

at 14 years of age to help support his family....He worked his butt off at TWO jobs for most of his life,

was a shop steward and was a solid FDR Democrat, for all of his life.



*See the film "Hoffa" sometime.

[antigone382]

188. They killed a lot of Southerners, too.

A LOT of Southerners died fighting for Unionization. Have you never heard of the Battle for Blair Mountain?

[whathehell]

192. Yes.

But why then, did they stop when the North kept on

[antigone382]

197. They didn't, for a long time.

For one thing, it's a lot easier to kill off the union folks in the backwoods than it is in the inner city. It's a lot easier to intimidate people who are already largely illiterate, and it's a lot easier to pay of local officials (and keep them paid off) in poor small towns than it is in big cities. Another issue is that when the Appalachian mountains were settled a lot of the original settlers did not get official titles to the land. Railroad and coal companies had a much easier time getting to the courts of those states and even the U.S. to have titles drawn up. They then deceived a lot of farmers in the region, many of whom were illiterate, into signing over their mineral rights in order to get an official title that would let them keep the land (not pointing out that the party with the mineral rights had the authority to access those minerals however they wished). Farmers who wouldn't sign were killed, had their signatures forged after their death, or lost their land anyway because the "official" title took precedence over their claim. This gave the companies access to the land. After that it was all over.

And besides all that, it wasn't until about the 1980's that RTW laws started to get passed and that the companies were finally able to break the back of the unions.

[mia]

4. Good question.

I've wondered about that myself.

[Romulox]

5. Because it's ultimately *class-based abuse*. And that's considered "OK" here. nt

[whathehell]

57. I disagree...Redneck is based more on political opinions, IMO, than "class"

I grew up in a blue collar family, and we were liberal democrats.

[Romulox]

88. It's both. Nobody calls Mitt Romney a "redneck". nt

[whathehell]

104. Well, he's rich as hell...I have referred to middle class conservatives as "rednecks". n/t

[Romulox]

106. "he's rich as hell..." Right. Which is why it speaks to *class*. nt

[whathehell]

108. Only if you include the One Percent

which the overwhelming majority of Americans are NOT among.

Most Americans are "middle class" or think of themselves as such,

so for practical purposes, this is not a "class issue"

[Romulox]

111. I've never bought into the "1%" meme to begin with. Guys making $500k don't get called "redneck",

either.

[whathehell]

114. Well, I don't know anyone making $500K so I wouldn't know if that's true

or not.

The couple living next door to me -- They weren't poor, judging by the house

they lived in, worth now, I'd guess, about 300k, and neither am I, but I doubt they made

half a mil a year. In any case, the wife was from Indiana and when we started talking politics

and she said, sarcastically, that she "could tell" I was a democrat,

I had no problem calling her a redneck.

Sorry, but I don't think one has to be a "redneck" if they choose not to be.

I come from a working class, blue collar family and NONE of us have ever been

anything but Democrat.

[tosh]

152. No, those are "good ol' boys".

on edit: reply was meant for Romulux

[LanternWaste]

136. They do quite often in OK & TX.

'Guys making $500k don't get called "redneck"...'


They do quite often in OK & TX.

[arely staircase]

171. and i can confirm that. nt

[arely staircase]

6. don't know. ask jeff foxworthy

Or his fans who seem to love being called that.

[alp227]

229. Exactly! I've seen "Blue Collar TV". That show uses "redneck" as a BADGE OF HONOR.

Including the "you might be a redneck if" segment as well as "redneck dictionary" and "redneck yards".

[JustAnotherGen]

7. I don't think it is . . .

That said - your user name is Red . . . do you blush a great deal? Just teasing.

I don't like that - because a branch of my father's family hails from Alabama and Mississippi - and they were/are white. Not every white person from the deep South is a redneck. Some of "them" have them smarts, common sense, and solid progressive values "real good". It's not their fault they are surrounded by eejits of the worst kind.

On that same note -I hate the terminology 'white trash'. It's language ignorant, bigoted white folks would use against my mom because she married a black man (of interesting ethnic heritage).

Cracker/redneck both have a really interesting history. That's why we ought to be careful throwing them (and white trash) around.

Just my two cents - your regular African American forum poster signing off!

[democrat_patriot]

8. Why is Redneck a slur?

[loyalsister]

59. I've wondered whether it is or not too

I thought the origin was a reference to the sunburn\tan a person gets from farm work when they are looking down. The farmer tan and\or literally a red neck.

I think there are people who use southerner with some of the same disdain.

[ncgrits]

101. Yep. It's often not fun being a southerner in DU. nt

[loyalsister]

113. Being a "different" minority is never fun

Particularly when people don't see you that way and would rather just draw sweep a broad brush across a minority population.
I am not from the south but have developed an affinity for the south. Particularly some of the cultural expressions and differences that I am unfamiliar with.

[arely staircase]

169. i am a southerner

and the only people i ever here use the word redneck are rednecks

[uponit7771]

72. +1

[2pooped2pop]

9. because it's impolite to call rednecks stupid mother fucking racist assholes.

However, not knowing you, I am just anwering the question as "why is it ok to call someone redneck" rather than you personally.

[lame54]

94. I thought it was short for that

[seabeyond]

10. in my part of the country being called a redneck gets a grin and slap on the back

they even put it on the front windshield in big bold letters.

a redneck.... owns being a redneck, with pride.

is it a slur? if you are not a redneck, then, ok.

[OneGrassRoot]

79. That's my experience. People own that label with pride and don't see it as a slur. n/t

[RZM]

124. That usually depends on context and who's using the word

Tupac Shakur addressed this when he was criticized for using the n-word. He claimed that putting 'er' at the end of the word channeled lynching, while using an 'a' indicated the modern black experience.

He even titled an album 'Strictly for My N.I.G.G.A.Z.'

He explained that the acronym meant: 'Never ignorant getting goals achieved' (not sure what the 'z' was for). Obviously he was happy to use the term to describe himself and the people around him, but he probably wouldn't have appreciated the word being used in an insulting member by somebody outside of the black community.

Same thing with redneck and many other slurs. They often do double duty as a term of endearment and an insult.

[The Straight Story]

11. Cause rednecks are advanced - they can't be intimidated or controlled by a term they don't like

Unlike others who want phrases/words they don't like abolished because the mere mention of them sets them all aflutter.

At least, this is what it appears to be - if you are offended by something, like being called a redneck, the same people here that would come to your defense if you called many other things don't see how you could possibly be offended by just a word. They recognize that in some odd way you have evolved to a point that you don't need others to hide words or defend you. Only some can be so affected.

You, like me I suppose, are different. Celebrate your differences from others and the sudden realization that you cannot be offended (and if you are...well you just need to buck it up and quit whining).

[xmas74]

12. I've wondered that.

In some cases, redneck was a term used with pride. It was used regularly with those in the Battle of Blair Mountain, who fought and fought hard against the mine owners. What many here don't realize is that real "rednecks" are huge union supporters. Quite a few gave up their lives to unionize the mines. A redneck used to be an old country boy, usually a mine worker, strong on guns, strong on labor, and very Dem.

Now, the term has been sucked up by people who have no idea what it is. They've taken a proud, proud thing and turned it into a joke. It's disgusting and both those who've bastardized the term and those who use it as a nasty slur need to be reeducated.

[snooper2]

16. You think the reverse has happened, is happening with the N word?

can't post it here though I heard "what's up my n@#####r" yesterday from a guy that works at a vendor we deal with....

[xmas74]

19. I hate hearing that too

but yes, to an extent.

Red neck should be said with a sense of pride and many of the "good ol boys" cannot call themselves rednecks. It's been taken over and not in a good way.

[rrneck]

35. I am rrneck, and I approve this message. nt

[tech3149]

46. Thank you for pointing out that bit of history

I may be from up north but I'd wear the label of redneck with pride. The origins of the term may have vastly different meanings but they both would serve me proud. Whether it's union supporter and activist or someone who works all day in the sun, you call me a redneck and I'll say Thank You!

[xmas74]

68. It was once a proud label

that only a few could really claim. Now, it's become a joke and that's too bad.

[yesphan]

137. Yes, Pride.

I saw a toddler yesterday wearing a ball cap that said "When I grow up, I want to be just like daddy, REDNECK".
The word redneck was flanked on both sides with confederate battle flags.
The kid has yet to be inculcated with pride of any sort, but soon will be.
Obviously his parents are prideful of being "redneck" as is their understanding of the term and
want to pass that pride on to their son.

[panader0]

13. I think the term redneck used to mean someone with an actual red neck

from working long hours outdoors. As a liberal bricklayer for forty years, I would definately qualify. My neck has gone beyond red
to deep brown leather.

[xmas74]

20. Some think it's from the red

handkerchiefs worn around the necks of the men who fought the mine owner detectives at the Battle of Blair Mountain.

[wendylaroux]

38. That's what I always heard too.

They sound pretty great to me.

[snooper2]

14. Because I saw you cruising down J highway

In a 1984 2-door black Ford Escort with 60 series tires on just the front, blacked out back windows, a busted sunroof and a bra on the front heading toward the lake with fishing poles bungee corded to the top...

Blaring this song from Garth Brooks-

&feature=related


Oh wait, that was ME over 20 years ago


And a reason to post this

GO COWBOYS! LOL

[Starry Messenger]

15. Because mature adults don't use racist language in retaliation for imaginary insults.

[hfojvt]

17. because of Edward and Francis

the Bellamy brothers

In some places. it hain't no slur

[99Forever]

18. Why do you have the desire to use slurs on other people?

Do you feel somehow you are being deprived because you can't be an a**hole without social consequences?

[Quantess]

93. To be fair, that's not what he said.

You are making a leap.

[99Forever]

98. Perhaps not in so many words.

I think was inferred. In my experience, it's how dog whistle bigots roll. Could I be wrong? Heck yes. But the simple fact that he hasn't followed up and filled in the blanks, leads me to believe I'm not.

[Quantess]

99. Agreed.

You are probably on target, but there is room for doubt. That's all I am saying.
Usually what happens is that the person outs themselves fairly quickly, but since the OP hasn't been back...who knows.

[gollygee]

21. Is it OK to call you a redneck?

And are you wanting to use slurs against other people?

If someone called me a redneck, it would not then occur to me to think it might be right for me to use slurs against others. I would just be upset someone had been nasty to me.

[Iggo]

22. So it's okay to call you a redneck?

We're just here to figure out why?

Is that what you're saying?

[cali]

23. whine on honeypie, whine on.

[Bluerthanblue]

24. a redneck isn't about race. You can be a red-neck and not be white.

redneck is more an attitude than anything else.

It describes a mindset/lifestyle not an ethnic or racial group.

[gollygee]

25. Hmm I don't know if I buy that

a) I think redneck does imply white (and poor) pretty strongly

b) I've heard people use the same excuse to use the N word. "It's about attitude, not race."

[Bluerthanblue]

34. I guess it's perspective-

I live in a rural area, know many poor white farmers, but there are very FEW I'd call 'rednecks' and those are the ones who espouse bigoted, ignorant- (usually willful) agressive and obnoxous ideas.

To me, Herman Cain is a redneck. So is GWBush.
Willie Nelson is anything but.






maybe my understanding and use of the word is different. I tend to come at life from a curious perspective.

[Skidmore]

69. Hi, Blue. Love your pic there.

I'm going to locate it and use it.

Hope all is well with you.

[Bluerthanblue]

81. Hi

back at ya Skidmore!

we're hangin in there. Hope all is well with you and yours as well.

Glad you liked the pic.

here is another place to find it: http://stillisstillmoving.com/willienelson/rednecks-hippies-misfits-weare-all-the-same-willie-nelson/

[Art_from_Ark]

40. When I was growing up, "redneck" referred to someone,

almost always a white male, who usually drove a pick-up truck with a gun rack in the back, would throw beer cans out the window, was semi-educated and didn't care a lot for schooling, was often hostile toward people who were different, and would get drunk at some bar and end up getting in a fight. This image was provided by classmates and others who were actually proud of being rednecks.

[gollygee]

44. That's the image I have too

But white (and at least relatively poor) are def. part of the stereotype.

[brewens]

135. Billy Carter said a redneck would throw the beer cans out the window, a good-ol' boy

tossed them in the bed of the truck.

[RedRocco]

67. exactly

[obamanut2012]

42. It is definitely changing to mean that

Agreed.

[uponit7771]

73. +1

[qb]

26. An epithet for the oppressor doesn't invoke the murderous history of an epithet for the oppressed.

[Tom Ripley]

58. +1,000,000

[Romulox]

89. News Flash: Slavery wasn't instituted by lower class whites. Nope. It was the LEADING FAMILIES

who owned slaves, and profited from slavery. They were never asked to give up a penny of their ill-gotten gains, either.

[ncgrits]

102. +1000

[treestar]

141. They went along with it, though

Not subject to slavery themselves, and willing to fight for the Confederacy - hoping they'd be slaveowners one day, too. In general, though.

[Romulox]

146. Yeah. They also "went along" with sharecropping while former slaveholders kept their riches.

And even today, the poor "go along" with the Powers-That-Be endless wars around the world too, right?

Blaming the poor for the riches inhumanity is ridiculous.

[FLyellowdog]

27. Well, first of all,

if you're bothered by the term, then you obviously aren't a real Redneck. Rednecks take pride in their heritage and wear the badge (not to mention their overalls) with pride. And secondly,... oh wait. I've already lost your attention. Maybe you are a Redneck after all. Nevermind.

[patrice]

28. It's the machine wars: This board is being swarmed by politically correct speech sentinels.

[AllyCat]

29. you can choose not to be a redneck

[patrice]

30. Good point, especially since the next assault is going to be on the matter of Racism & Sexism.

Thank you!

[antigone382]

125. No, you can't.

I live on a mountain in Tennessee with a bunch of poor people who don't have access to good education, who live in run down houses, have missing teeth and other evidence of the lack of access to decent healthcare, and are not inbred but deal with the assumption by outsiders that they are. They are singled out by police in wealthier communities for harrassment, they are denied decent paying jobs, and they are openly mocked and viewed as subhuman second-class citizens because they are "rednecks. hillbilly hicks."

Redneck is a classist term that identifies a certain group of people as inferior or even subhuman based on characteristics that stem from economic disparity and not from innate traits.

And for the record, they led some of the most famous union rebellions in the South when the coal companies were running rampant, and they mostly vote Democrat.

[antigone382]

190. They aren't.

But poor people in cities generally have the sympathy of people on this board.

Again, I haven't insulted you, other than to ask that you question a few prejudices, so I don't know why you're insulting me.

[antigone382]

198. Never said that. A lot of people care a lot, and understand the complexities of history.

If you want to have a respectful conversation I will be glad to. If you have nothing but insults that bear no relation to anything I have said I have no more time for you.

[abolugi]

31. every "red neck"

I've ever met proudly called themselves that.
It's like when I call myself a "lib"
Some people think its an insult. I don't.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. agree- "bleeding heart liberal"

is meant as a slur- I am not ashamed to be called one.

[TlalocW]

32. Well, you were asleep

And I had half a bucket of Sherwin-Williams' "Gypsy Red" that I was going to throw out, and I wanted to move up from Magic-Marker'ing your face so...

TlalocW

[Comrade_McKenzie]

33. As a Kentuckian, it doesn't bother me... but some of the arguments here for it...

Wow, they're weak and hypocritical. Try harder.

[Nye Bevan]

37. It's just a word. Sticks and stones may break my bones,

but words will never hurt me.

People who use slurs are trying to upset you. Instead of acting offended and outraged, simply ignore them or laugh it off. When they see that they are not getting the reaction they want, they will stop with the name-calling.

As an example, "queer" used to be a slur, but is now a word that has been proudly embraced by the LGBT community.

[BigAnth]

39. This kind of name-calling often gets a strong positive response, but does a disservice to..

progressive causes and civil discourse. Lots of folks think that it's okay and funny to paint their political opponents with a broad brush of "ignorant racist rednecks" or as a bunch of "stupid, toothless hillbillys". Personally, I think that name-calling and profanity have no place in political discussion. If you can't make your point without dropping a load of F-bombs or calling people a bunch of ignroant rednecks, douchebags, hillbillys or A-holes, I don't have much respect for your opinions. It really detracts from the message when people resort to these kinds of childish, personal attacks and potty-mouthed rants.

[mia]

117. At last.

I was hoping to see a post like yours.

[RZM]

155. Your post is the very definition of 'nailing it'

Name calling serves no real productive purpose. I guess it's good for backslapping among the like-minded, but other than that its consequences are all negative.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. DU's broad brush says "South" on the handle. n/t

[ncgrits]

103. This!

[Ikonoklast]

43. Yawn.

Must be tiring being an endless victim of imaginary insults.

And you can use any slur you like against any group you care to insult, just dont be surprised when they tell you to fuck off.

[patrice]

45. My nearly 7' tall, redneck, construction bull foreman, little brother 'd take exception at your slur

[AngryOldDem]

47. It shouldn't be okay.

It's a slur like any other, but I guess some slurs are more acceptable than others around here.

I've stopped trying to figure it out.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. is "hippy" a slur?

'peace-nick'? "feminist"? intent and context matter.

There are people who are proud to wear some of these "slurs" a Lot depends on circumstances imo.

[AngryOldDem]

96. Exactly -- context matters.

And here, most of the time, the context is not positive.

[RC]

64. Some people use 'old' as a slur...

Today I turn 68, should I be offended at your DU name?

[AngryOldDem]

92. I recant. I'll now go along with the groupthink.

Redneck is perfectly fine.

Happy birthday, by the way.

[Alduin]

82. It's not a slur.

It can be applied to all races.

[WilliamPitt]

48. Warning: Outrage Capacity Reached. Meltdown Imminent.

[SunsetDreams]

50. I must need a nap

my comprehension level needs energized.

[MADem]

51. Redneck is not always a "slur."

[SunsetDreams]

53. Do you

know what this is about? I don't, I'm confused.

[MADem]

151. Not a damn clue!

A cry for justice from the downtrodden white population, maybe?
Because, ya know, a white guy can't go anywhere without being profiled and what-have-you?


I have no earthly idea!

It's not--as Ron Zeigler would have said--"operative"--but it's certainly curious.

[booley]

52. If I were to take a guess

I have never been called a red neck.

But I have been called a cracker and once a "white devil" ANd I guess I could have been offended.

But I wasn't. Because I'm a white male and the vast majority of power in this country has been in the hands of white guys. Unlike blacks and hispanics and women and gays, there is simply little to no negative baggage that comes with being white.

Yes cracker is a slur. But unlike so many others, it doesn't carry the baggage of being a persecuted or oppressed minority.

That's one of the privileges of being white. I don't have to be offended if I dont' want to be.

Besides didn't some comedian reclaim red neck?

[antigone382]

127. Redneck has its roots as a slur in the war against union miners.

It is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[booley]

153. but if we compare

But I think if we compare the history.. there's still a lot more oppression against minorities.

I mean even the power dynamic is different. The vast majority see red neck as a stereotype for a white southerner.

And white southerners were often the ones doing the oppressing.

And then we have comedians using red neck as a catch phrase.

It simply doesn't haver the power that other slurs do.

btw, I am not sure your origin is correct...

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=62717

[antigone382]

162. I would never argue that it has the same power as other slurs against other minorities...

...but whether it started as a response to a show of solidarity by union miners, or whether it started as a pejorative term for poor sharecropping farmers whose necks burned in the sun (or whether it had multiple origins, which most scholars agree on), the term still has classist roots, and it has a history of being used by those in the upper class to diminish and oppress those in the lower classes.

I see this every day in the horrendously poor, traditionally Democratic-leaning Southern community in which I live. There is an amazing capacity to ignore the suffering of the people here, very largely because they are viewed subhuman hillbillies or rednecks. There is a very specific kind of revulsion reserved for these folks, and it has done a whole lot over the last century or more to keep them down and take what's theirs.

[Tom Ripley]

54. I prefer to use "peckerwood"

[GodlessBiker]

55. One is not born a redneck, one becomes one.

[antigone382]

129. An explanation of the term redneck

(copied and pasted, to save myself time) The slur "redneck" was originally used against union coal miners in response to the red bandanas they wore to show solidarity. "Redneck" is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[morningfog]

56. Who called you a redneck? On DU?

Why is Red in your name?

[RedRocco]

76. it is the screen name I use everywhere

and refers to the color of the VW Scirocco I used to own

[Fresh_Start]

60. its not, unless you invite people to call you that nt

nt

[TwilightGardener]

70. Redneck = choice of lifestyle. Not color or race.

Being white and/or southern does not automatically make one a redneck. However, if you rebuild engines, your name is Earl, and you're the Charlie Daniels of the torquewrench...you're probably a redneck.

[uponit7771]

75. +1

[ieoeja]

83. Redneck global financial systems analyst here!

When I get off work I can't wait to get out of downtown and to the neighborhood bar mostly full of construction workers.

My best friend is a security guard.

When my kitchen roof sprung a leak that just happened to be directly over my kitchen sink, I thought, "problem solved."

When the corner of my kitchen collapsed - who could have saw that coming? - I rebuilt it myself. I built a temporary wall a foot or two in from the outer wall in the basement and 1st floor, tore down the old wall, mixed up a bag of concrete and squared off the foundation, built new walls, jacked up the 2nd floor over the other half of the house so I could replace kitchen roof trusses and finished her up. 100% of it by myself. People I work with for the most part would call an electrician to replace a light fixture and were astonished when I told them what I was doing.

And, of course, being a beer drinking redneck it took me months during which I would find the occasional squirrel being chased around the house by my cats. The electric meters came into the house right there and spent the months hanging on a 2x4 tied to a tree (I *did* hire an electrician to do that much for me). With the wall torn out, switches often shortened out in the rain, so I kept a long poll that I could reach out and flip them on and off from a safe distance in the rain.

By the way, contrary to popular opinion duct tape does *not* work for everything. It was absolute shit for holding together the forms when I tried filling in that gap in the foundation.

Don't get me wrong. I like and respect the people with whom I work. But even after a quarter century of being the consumate professional in the office, I am just not like these people. Heck, as a truly international organization, Americans make up a pretty small percent of our work force, but as a rule I have to say that the foreigners and Americans are more alike than am I. I am what I am. Socially, I am dirtier, louder and rowdier.

With very few exceptions, nobody cares. I just keep the two worlds apart for the most part. Oddly, the only people I have ever had a problem with were ... uber rightwing. Yet, when folks like the OP run into problems, I bet he just assumes "those people" are lefties. In my experience, to the Liberals, hillbilly is just one more ethnic group.

And as one that almost speaks english, more welcome than most!

[TwilightGardener]

84. LOL--your post reminded me of all the holes we had in our walls

during our years-long renovation of our old house. My husband also did 98% of the work himself...because he knew how (or taught himself), and we didn't have money for contractors. Yes, various critters getting in, cats and dogs going crazy, children ashamed to bring friends over--we were a little "downscale" for quite a while. But unlike most neighbors in our small rural town, we never got a trampoline or an ATV, or set an indoor recliner or sofa on the porch--IMO, the hallmarks of redneck recreation.

[Romulox]

91. Wow. I own *TWO* torque wrenches. What does that make me?

The marker of a "redneck"?

[kwassa]

112. Redneck squared?

[TwilightGardener]

121. I guess you never heard the country song

"Queen of my Double Wide" by Sammy Kershaw.

[Romulox]

122. No, I can't listen to that crap. It's funny once I read the lyrics, tho. nt

[antigone382]

130. Not true. What the term actually means:

(copied and pasted, to save myself time) The slur "redneck" was originally used against union coal miners in response to the red bandanas they wore to show solidarity. "Redneck" is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[Liberal_in_LA]

71. the CMT channel (Country Music) has a a reality show called "redneck Island" and lots of programming

referring to "rednecks". I also wondered why it's ok to use such a term. maybe it's like Black or Gay people attempting to claim certain slurs to take away the power.

[uponit7771]

74. redneck is NOT...NOT based of ethnicity, central cali has plenty black and latino rednecks

[Spirochete]

86. Maybe neck is a synonym for Rocco? I dunno.

[Jazzgirl]

87. Because it doesn't have a derogatory connotation.

The other terms you mention up thread like "nigger" and "beaner" have racist and very derogatory meanings. Redneck can almost be seen as endearing. Don't confuse the meaning of words.

[Romulox]

90. I think this is highly debatable. nt

[cordelia]

110. Wrong. n/t

[antigone382]

132. Not historically true.

(copied and pasted, to save myself time) The slur "redneck" was originally used against union coal miners in response to the red bandanas they wore to show solidarity. "Redneck" is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[JoePhilly]

95. Are the people calling you that, standing on your lawn, wearing white hoods, and burning a cross?

If so, call the police.

[antigone382]

138. No, but I have seen police more likely to pull people over and charge them with crimes...

...because of their "redneck" status.

And I have seen people denied employment and even kicked out of community events because they looked like "rednecks."

And I have seen higher class people take a whole lot of joy out of dressing up like the "local yokels" for Halloween, or even write letters to the editors about how making an effort to employ poor people in this area is a waste of time because it's just "feeding the rats."

and let's not even talk about how large scale land theft, worker exploitation, and the complete obliteration of Appalachian culture was allowed precisely because the Northern business interests in charge viewed us and our culture as backwards and without value.

[whathehell]

159. Uh huh..

"and the complete obliteration of Appalachian culture was allowed precisely because the Northern business interests in charge viewed us and our culture as backwards and without value"

So you're blaming it on those "Northern Business Interests"?

Is that because wealthy and middle class southerners treated you SO well?

[antigone382]

172. I never said that, but the fact is that the people who bought/stole land in the Appalachian South

...were railroad and coal companies, and most of them had their base of operations in the North.

This is not a vindication of the civil war or of Southern elites. My mother is from Syracuse, in fact. But I will not allow contempt for the Southern poor without acknowledging the very real hand that wealthy Northern industrialists had in parsing up the Appalachian mountains, driving people off their land, forcing them into coal camps, and contributing to environmental destruction on a scale anyone who hasn't seen mountaintop removal mining firsthand cannot really comprehend. That does not justify the fact that environmental and labor laws are crap here, but it is a major factor in the history of this region, and I will not tolerate slurs by those who are ignorant of that history, and refuse to acknowledge that the prosperity of the North was in many ways engendered by it.

[whathehell]

179. What's next?...The War of Northern Aggression?

and I do NOT have "contempt" for the Southern poor...If you want to go ALL the way

back to the Civil War and Reconstruction times, be my guest, but the people who have

been giving you shit for the last One Hundred Forty Years or so are SOUTHERNERS, not those

"wealthy Northern Industrialists" who, if they DID steal things from you were most LIKELY doing so

in FULL partnership with the Wealthy Southern elite, who, no doubt, blamed it ALL on those "filthy yankees"

Oh PLEASE, if you want to talk "class consciousness" the term "white trash" which I've ALWAYS hated by the way,

was BORN in the South....It was basically UNHEARD of in the North until the late nineteen Eighties and certainly NOT

on public airwaves.

[antigone382]

185. I'm not going back to the Civil War

I'm going back to the land thefts in the Appalachian South in the late 1800's by railroad and coal companies. Appalachia was generally pro-union during the Civil War so those traditional divisions don't apply.

Again, my point is not that the South was just a wonderful place until the yankees came in and trashed the place, and there's no love lost between me and the Southern elite. Ask Don Blankenship about that. My point is just that if you're going to condemn people in the South, especially poor people, without examining the ways that all of our histories are connected to the current state of affairs there. What would we think of another country that held up some of its least-served members--people living in fallen-down houses, lacking medical care, decent education, or job opportunities, plagued by drug problems, etc.--for ridicule, subject to stereotypes of uncleanliness and moral depravity that put them on the same status as animals?

And white-trash has a much longer history than that. Poor, "defective" (and generally Southern) whites were major targets of eugenics during its heyday.

[whathehell]

201. Okay, not back that far but the late 1800's are not THAT much closer.

first of all -- I do NOT "condemn the South" and I don't think many here do, either,

but the fact is, the term "white trash" has been part of the South for AGES, and you'll

just have to believe me and any other Northerner here old enough to know, that

it was NOT part of the Northern lexicon until WELL into the NINETEEN Eighties

and that's just a fact. The South was and IS less union-friendly than the North

and I don't know who you can blame that on....The Repukes have "done a job"

on unions here in the North, but it seems they were all but a "non-starter" in

the South...I'm sure you've seen the film "Norma Rae", right?


P.S. Do you dislike Jeff Foxsworthy? -- because a lot of people like him and

his audience doesn't strike me as particularly "elite" either..I've even found him funny

at times, and in saying that, I must tell you that I DO draw a strong distinction between

the term "redneck" and "white trash" or "trailer trash" and I've made that point

clear on DU recently.

[antigone382]

202. I don't care for Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy...

for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that I do feel they perpetuate something that is harmful and allows certain audience members to see themselves as superior to an "other."

If you don't condemn the South or southerners then you are not the target. However there are certainly those in this very thread who find the idea that poor southerners may deserve a shred of understanding, rather than revulsion and contempt, so abhorrent that they've resorted to calling me a liar for no particular reason. No skin off my back, honestly, but it's interesting to observe.

In all honesty this isn't about this or that specific slur for me. It's about what that slur implies are the speaker's much larger stereotypes, and the damage those stereotypes do to individual lives, as I see every day. I personally feel that the "redneck" stereotype falls within that category. But as we all know, word meanings are fluid and multifacted, and as of yet, such words are not viewed as being beyond community standards on this board. So I invite you and anyone else to use such words as your personal ethics dictate.

[whathehell]

203. Where on DU has anyone called you a liar?

"Revulsion and contempt"?...Jeebus, that IS horrible and certainly quite

"non" progressive....I've never felt that about anyone, I don't think,

at least not on the basis of poverty...That is simply wrong and far

more "right wing classicist" than any progressive with a right to the name should be.

[antigone382]

206. downthread.

And a few other choice things. I'd rather not point to a specific post number as I've tried to make my exit from a conversation that ceased to be productive. I could alert but I'd rather let it stand.

For that reason I appreciate this conversation and your civility that much more.

[whathehell]

209. I'm so sorry about that

I would have alerted on them, and, with your permission I WILL alert on them, if you'd like.

Thank you for your kind words, and I appreciate YOUR civilty as well...A lot of my

converstations with people here do not end up so well either, so I know of what you speak.

Feel free to contact me by pm whenever you want.

[VOX]

97. A vintage classic SNL sketch w/ Richard Pryor & Chevy Chase answers your question...

It can be viewed here:

http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/12064/Famous_SNL_Skit_with_Chevy_Chase_and_Richard_Pryor/#.UBhIWzGe5y4

[LWolf]

100. I guess it depends on who's doing the calling.

My late father proudly called himself "redneck," and used it as his CB handle. His son, the half-sibling who doesn't acknowledge me, is a proud self-identified redneck, too.

My experience with rednecks is that they take pride in that term. They don't consider it a slur.

Redneck or not is also a choice; it's based on a lifestyle and pov, not on unchangeable things like race, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation.

The very qualities someone who might use the term as a putdown are the same qualities rednecks themselves take pride in.



ARE you a redneck? I notice that you relate to the term "red" in some way.

Perhaps we should check in with Jeff Foxworthy.

[braddy]

105. This book explains it. "Whatever they're called, America's poor whites have become easy targets for

"The Redneck Manifesto"

http://www.amazon.com/The-Redneck-Manifesto-Jim-Goad/dp/0684831139

Book Description
Publication Date: May 14, 1997
"A primal scream in defense of white working-class wage serfs....viciously funny...a politically unclassifiable polemic sure to humor, or offend, or enrage...in equal measure". -- Booklist
Rednecks...hillbillies...crackers...trailer trash. Whatever they're called, America's poor whites have become easy targets for ridicule and hostility in this country.

A much needed reassessment of the classic caricature, The Redneck Manifesto traces the history of the white underclass and exposes the real sources of its frustrations, anger, and follies. From a provocative reevaluation of "hatemongers, gun nuts, and paranoid, tax-resisting extremists" to an explanation of why Elvis, Bigfoot, and space aliens are objects of veneration, Goad elucidates redneck politics, religion, and values in his own uniquely unusual way.

"A furious, profane, smart, and hilariously smart-aleck defense of working-class white culture....Something important, necessary, and long overdue has been said". -- Rod Dreher, Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel

Show More

[mia]

118. Reminds me of the recent "white trash" reception on Capital Hill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002922113

Lobbying Group Holds ‘WHITE TRASH RECEPTION’ On Capitol Hill
" Washington may seem dead in the Summer, but there is one event happening on Capitol Hill next week that will cause at least a bit of a stir. The health care lobbying group Strategic Health Care will be holding a “White Trash Reception” on July 19th:

Strategic Health Care says that it regularly throws themed parties where lobbyists and people in the health industry can mingle with Capitol Hill staffers. This event’s theme, however, drives home an image of high-paid Washington lobbyists gathering to snicker at low-income, white Americans. And the event particularly stings because health care lobbyists at Strategic Health Care profit from pharmaceutical companies that make their money on expensive drugs that low income Americans of all races frequently have to turn their pockets inside out to pay for.

[Quantess]

119. I read it, years ago.

It is very entertaining.

[eridani]

107. It isn't

Unfortunately, people are less sensitive to class-based slurs than to slurs about race and/or ethnicity. Even Democrats.

[whathehell]

212. Agreed.

While "redneck" seems like it could lend itself to humor, "white trash", "trailer trash" defintiely does NOT.

As for sensitivity, I might add that people are less sensitive about GENDER slurs as well, and that is

frequently the case on DU.

[notadmblnd]

109. food fo thought.

Originally, the term came from the later 1800's in southern Georgia and Alabama to refer to sharecroppers who worked in the fields thus getting a sunburned neck. They were called 'rednecks' as a term meant for hard working people. Today, the term is used by comedians and commentators to refer to people who are uneducated, close-minded and racist individuals.


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_name_'redneck'_come_from#ixzz22FL7TOI3

[xfundy]

115. "Redneck" is a term of pride, for some.

Jeff Foxworthy's "You know you're a redneck if..." and Larry the Cable Guy come to mind, so what's the big deal? I don't spend all day here so may have missed the context. Some folks seem to wear it as a badge of honor.

Of course, like most broad-brush terms, it's a stereotype, once a slang term for farmers and those who worked outside in the sun but wore a shirt that left their neck exposed to its burning rays. Last I heard it meant someone who was uneducated, unhygienic, unwilling to change their simple black/white views of the world even when faced with facts indicating not only shades of gray but millions of colors. Rednecks, in the 70s or so, hated long-haired "hippies," but now many rednecks have long hair themselves.

As my father claimed a teenager explained it to him many years ago, it's "anyone we don't like." That, of course, is the current meaning of "librul" to anyone on the cancervative side of the spectrum.

[antigone382]

133. Because that is not all that redneck means.

(copied and pasted, to save myself time) The slur "redneck" was originally used against union coal miners in response to the red bandanas they wore to show solidarity. "Redneck" is very strongly associated with being lower class, and the signs of that class status, like lack of education, poor healthcare (missing teeth, teenage pregnancy, etc.), and the ownership of substandard housing and clothing (living in shacks or rundown trailers and not having shoes). Along with it go assumptions of moral depravity, such as inbreeding, that puts those described by the slur nearly on a level with animals. And those who fit the stereotypical appearance, speech patterns, and other characteristics of "rednecks" are actively discriminated against in wealthy communities, including police harrassment and curtailed employment opportunities.

[antigone382]

143. Yes, that is even more tied to the history of Appalachian oppression than the term redneck.

People lost their homes, their cultures, their livelihoods, and their lives (not to mention the environmental health of their communities) to railroad companies and coal camps very largely because they were viewed as disposable backwards mountain people.

It is a very ugly history and it continues to destroy lives today.

I would say it's best to call racists racists, homophobes homophobes, and regressives regressives, without engaging in terms that diminish their humanity based on traits that have nothing to do with the beliefs or actions that inspire our anger.

[antigone382]

149. You aren't just using that pejorative against those people.

You are using it against a whole lot of people who don't deserve it, whether you want to admit that or not. Moreover, you are going along with the terms used by oppressive one-percenters to justify their destruction of this region and their oppression of laborers. Look up the history of coal mining if you don't believe me.

The traditionally staunch Democrats in my town, who live in trailers and lose their teeth because they don't have medical care, are the ones who suffer because the stereotypes that allow people to think of them as subhuman are perpetuated. If you are OK with that, it is their problem, not mine.

[antigone382]

154. On second thought: let me tell you whose problem it is:

I live in one of the poorest counties in the South. Before someone saws on about how the immense suffering and lack of access to basic human necessities that these people suffer is all hunky-dory because they "vote against their own interests," know that they are traditionally and staunchly Democratic--so much so that Al Gore came here to thank these people for their support after the 2000 campaign. But we are adjacent to some wealthier areas, including an upper crust private university. I see people discriminated against EVERY DAY because they fit the "redneck" stereotype. I see lives thrown away EVERY DAY because of hopelessness and lack of opportunity, lives gobbled up first by poverty, then by drugs, and finally by police harassment and lifelong entrance into the criminal-justice-industrial-complex. Most of the young men I know here have received lifelong felonies, mostly for drug offenses; meaning the higher education that was already almost unobtainable is now totally out of reach for them; meaning that they will never again have the ability to influence the political process.

And all of this is enabled by the attitude these people face from a very young age; that their status as classless hillbillies makes their lives devoid of value. You see it in letters to the editor written by the wealthy about how giving local people jobs is just "feeding the rats" (that's word for word), you see it in sideways glances and under-the-breath comments, and you see it in the way that police are far more likely to pull a car over if its appearance and that of its occupants signify that they are "hicks," how they are more likely to get the poor boys in trouble for a little pot than they are one of those young and promising college students.

I see the very real effects of prejudice against poor Southern people every single day, and it is not in any way, shape, or form constrained by political persuasion. If you want to pretend that perpetuating those stereotypes and the harm they do is OK because the people you are reducing to subhuman status *might* politically oppose you, then those are your priorities. But it reveals a pretty ignorant and counterproductive understanding of class issues in the United States, and it sure as anything does not help the progressive cause.

[antigone382]

187. Bullshit backed by statistics and longitudinal studies....

http://www.arc.gov/program_areas/MapofARCDesignatedDistressedCountiesFiscalYear2012.asp

I have not personally insulted you or accused you of "bullshit." I am just asking you to question a few basic assumptions. Whether you take me at my word is up to you.

[antigone382]

193. You sound like you know so many of them.

This is not about you as a person. It is a discussion of experiences and ideas. If your attachment to such stereotypes are so strong that you feel the need to react this irrationally and viciously, then I think I may have hit the appropriate nerve.

[antigone382]

199. No, presenting my perspective as honestly and respectfully as I can does.

I hope your day gets better.

[Tsiyu]

208. Thanks for adding your well-thought out posts

Last edited Wed Aug 1, 2012, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

We spoke about this yesterday: The human trait of wanting to feel superior to others.

Many on this board claim to "abhor" rednecks and hillbillies because they "use race and politics to feel superior to others."

And in their haste to condemn the "redneck and the hillbilly" they are using socio-economic and regional factors to HORRORS!!! feel superior to people they've never met themselves! Proving that even supposedly educated, liberal people STILL retain that human need to "feel superior" to something, anything, even people they have never met.

In the same breath that they demonize someone for racism - for blaming a whole population of black or hispanic people for all the problems of the world ( thus having a tangible target on which to focus their rage ) the Oh-So-Progressives will turn around and disparage an entire population of poor Appalachian or Southern whites ( thus having a tangible target on which to focus their rage. ) They appear to hate in others the very traits they are eager to model themselves.

The fallacy in their slurs against the poor Appalachian and Southern White are two-fold

A) The people who should be the target of their rage are upper and middle class whites ( Southern and otherwise )
These are the people who are bankrolling Republican politics, institutionalized racism and anti-union issues. These upper and middle class whites are the ones with the supply side economic plan and the conservative bias.

Why the hell blame freakin' hillbillies who are barely hanging on to what little they have? To call them a "threat" is so ridiculous, it's like people in Podunk Pennsylvania worried about Al Quaida. Yet here on DU, those dadblamed hillbillies are ruining everything!

B) Rednecks and hillbillies, to me, are people who live outside the mainstream. As you said, our hillbilly community here in TN has always trended Democratic. What's changing that trend? Upper class Northerners and FLoridians moving in and getting involved in politics and trying to take over the same. The people whom you need to watch are the ones who look just like you, in their happy suburban homes in their good shoes and driving their shiny new acceptable cars.

But, like the racist, many would rather just lump all "hillbillies" and "rednecks" aka poor Southern Whites into some vast demographic that is out to destroy their way of life. It makes me embarrassed to be part of such hypocrisy, and why I plan to curtail DU visits til after the election.

HIllbillies and rednecks are not wanted, even if we're radical leftists.

Clue has been caught!


Thanks again for trying to open eyes on those who wish to keep their eyes and their understanding ignorantly shut tight.

The take away: It's okay to be a bigot, as long as you're bigoted against the "right" sort of people.

[gkhouston]

120. taterguy said we could. n/t

[noiretextatique]

126. fallacy

a fallacy is usually an error in reasoning often due to a misconception or a presumption. Some so-called fallacies are not rhetorically intended to appeal to reason but rather to emotion, or a more nuanced disposition

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

128. How about "Yuppies"? "City Slickers"? "Latte Liberals?"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. It's Not

Except in the very narrowest of circumstances.

[benld74]

139. Yur neck is sun burned?

[Catherine Vincent]

144. I know a guy

His last name is Neck and his nickname is Red. No lie.

(sorry it doesn't answer your question)

[arely staircase]

145. so who do you think buys stuff like this? pointy-headed liberals from the northeast?

the nation of islam?

[Tsiyu]

215. Fred Phelps' Gawd Hates Librulls

Fred Phelpy self-identifies as a Christian.

Does this mean all DU Christians believe in a hatefilled Gawd?


I guess it must, because guys like Fred Phelps should be the standard by which all DU Christians are judged.

[arely staircase]

217. that is a terrible analogy

For it to work people who call themselves rednecks would have to be offended by others giving rednecks a bad name by doing very un-rednecky things.

[Tsiyu]

221. "Rednecks" do just that

One of my friends was trying to describe another friend to a visitor and was at a loss for words.

Finally, he said: "He's a redneck, liberal lawyer."

And it was the perfect description, so that even the redneck, liberal lawyer got a kick out of it. And I would say he does a fair share of bitching about racists and bigotry of all sorts. While maintaining a steady supply of junk cars in his yard as an FU to the spoilt upper class jerks who live near him.

One example of many I could give you of rednecks condemning idiocy.

Rednecks were traditionally blue collar or farming, union supporters. If ignorant people wish to now make it an all-encompassing pejorative so they can say they have "named the enemy" ( just as racists have slurs for their perceived "enemies" ) more power to those bigoted, ignorant people.

We need all votes, but maybe not the redneck hillbilly vote, huh?

Fuck them, right? We don't need 'em! And we know ALL about every single one of them! And we are so SUPERIOR we could eat ur own progressive faces off.....it makes us feel all better.

[arely staircase]

223. i know a lot of liberal rednecks

Around here a redneck is a white person who loves hunting and fishing mudhoghin' and and country music/southern rock. It isn't derogatory in the least. The point of the pictures I posted was to show the foolishness of the op who implicitly claims to be put upon by people calling him a redneck. Perhaps your showing a little cultural ignorance yourself.

With all.due respect, you ain't from around here as my redneck friends would say, including, make that especially, my liberal redneck friends. imho

[Tsiyu]

225. Sure honey

Rock that redneck cred!

You're all over the place, but wherever you end up, hope the weather is pleasant and the levees hold.

[arely staircase]

227. and bless your little heart

You try.

[Tsiyu]

231. Someone should try

to break through the fog.

It never hurts to see things more clearly.

Bless your heart for caring so much.

I mean that.....

[antigone382]

150. About as long as supposed progressives have justified the use of classist slurs...

...when they feel comfortable *assuming* that the subjects of those slurs disagree with them politically.

[arely staircase]

160. so those people i see in pick-ups with rebel flags that say redneck on them are progressives

using classist slurs?

all this time i thought they were rednecks.

[antigone382]

164. I didn't say every use of the world was by a progressive.

I didn't say there aren't groups and individuals that take pride in the word. I didn't say there aren't plenty of people with shitty views in the South.

I said that the word has classist origins that are invoked against more than just the target when it is used as an insult, and that progressives are working against social and economic justice when they invoke ugly class-based stereotypes.

[arely staircase]

177. look, progressives working against social and economic justice by using ugly class-based stereotypes

[arely staircase]

165. is this one of those classist progressives?

[antigone382]

168. I already replied to this argument in post #164.

Rich people in my community write letters to the editor that the local hillbillies don't deserve jobs. It's just "feeding the rats." Police go after them like they're dogs that need to be driven out of the rich parts of town. People spend their lives circulating in and out of the prison system, spending their time out of jail watching their homes and their health decline because there is no opportunity. Because no one sees a value in giving them opportunity. Because they are just rednecks.

I have lost friends because of this. Don't tell me it doesn't matter.

On edit: and yes, FFS, this town is "traditionally Democratic." As if they would deserve the suffering if they happened to have been duped by decades of right-wing propaganda.

[arely staircase]

173. you missed the point, my friend

i live in the deep deep south and the only time i every here the word redneck is when it is being self-applied, by rednecks.

[antigone382]

174. I'm glad that's the case in your part of the South.

The South is an immensely large region, and in *my* part, people are actively suffering because of negative stereotypes.

[arely staircase]

175. well that picture is from georgia

i live in east texas (nearly a thousand miles away) we have similar "redneck games" in a community not too far away. please tell me what part of the south it is where only the pointy headed elitist liberals use the word redneck?

look, more elitist liberals!

[antigone382]

176. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself

I refer you again to post #164, where I deal with the claim that I ever made any statement that only elitists or progressives use the term.

I prefer to maintain some thin facade of anonymity on DU, so I'd rather not give you my precise county. I will, however, provide a link to the map of the Appalachian Regional Commission's "distressed" counties for the year 2012 (that would be those counties that fall in the bottom 10% nationwide in overall indicators of economic health). My county is one of those.

http://www.arc.gov/program_areas/MapofARCDesignatedDistressedCountiesFiscalYear2012.asp

[arely staircase]

181. ok, fair enough

but i still maintain, having grown up and lived all but a few years of my life in the deep deep south, and having travelled extensively from georgia to texas, 99.99999999999999 percent of the times i have heard or read that word it has been from people proudly proclaiming themselves to be such. sometimes they do it verbally but more often they have festooned their vehicles bumper or or back window with stickers to let the whole wide world know that by-gum they are rednecks and proud of it.

like this:



so yeah, you say i'm having fun with these pictures and i plead guilty. why? because they totally discredit the notion that redneck is a word that is primarily used by liberals to look down their noses at poor white southerners. it just simply isn't true. it just isn't.

[antigone382]

200. Well sure, and I wouldn't claim it's primarily a word used for any one purpose.

But when it *is* used for that purpose, I will say it is. It honestly isn't this or that word in and of itself that bothers me. It's a very real and visceral kind of disgust that is felt for poor people who fit a certain description based on their accent, the house they live in, and all the other characteristics I've already talked about in this thread a thousand times over, and the impact that disgust has on those peoples' lives and livelihoods. I'm really not trying to be the PC police, this is just something that I see and deal with every day.

[arely staircase]

205. ok, here is why we are talking past each other, i think

you are from somewhere in the appalachians and that is a unique place with its own set of issues. im not saying it is any better or worse than the rest of the south, or the country as a whole. and in fact i know a woman from w. va. who finds te term hillbilly to be very offensive. so i think you and i are talking past each other because of cultural differences. southern culture isn't homogeneous and i guess i can see how the appalachian south and the non-appalachian south could view the term very differently.

but around here it doesn't even mean poor. it would be any white person who is hardcore into their trucks, guns, four-wheelin', bass fishin', etc. in fact the more money you have the more of these redneck toys you can buy.

[antigone382]

207. Understood, and that's part of the reason it can be a difficult conversation.

I will say that a large part of the reason this matters so much to me (not the only reason), is that I had my own "Romney" episode as a young girl living in North Georgia (though unlike Romney I remember it very clearly and feel a lot of remorse for it). There was a boy who used to come visit my house when I was 11 or so, maybe two years older than me. He was skinny and had a thick drawl and big eyes and a VERY big crush on me, but I found everything about him disgusting; his accent, his clothes, and as I remember from one time when my Mom dropped him off at his house, the old singlewide trailer with the green algae stains running down the sides, the 5+ dogs in his front yard, etc.

He represented something that my brothers and I had somehow come to detest--a dirty Southern redneck--and I treated him really awfully. I guess it came from hearing about my mother's experience; she came to the South from New York when she was 12, and dealt with a lot of cruelty from Southerners for her foreignness, so it was natural that she had a lot of contempt for the place. She didn't have that contempt for poor kids like Jerry (and really, she only hated the people who hated her), but I was too young to understand the difference, and I was totally brutal to that poor kid. The bottom line is that it's remembering being so mean to Jerry for something that was totally beyond his control, combined with growing up and moving to an even poorer part of the South in Appalachia, and seeing the results of so much oppression and brainwashing, that has made me so sensitive to such stereotypes today.

There's another level that I love hanging out with my "hillbilly" friends while we write up anti-MTR protest signs and they play the best bluegrass in the country, and we have a fabulous time joking about our identities, and yes, even our stereotypes. We are hardly blind to the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other problems that exist in the South, but we can't deny that many of the people that hold those views are often our own loved ones. What do you do as a progressive southerner? It's not an easy road to walk.

But it's a whole different thing when those stereotypes are used by people who don't know us, don't understand us, and want to condemn an entire region and class of people because of what they assume are our political beliefs.


Anyway I realize this has kind of gotten rambling and I don't know why I'm pouring my heart out to you, lol. I need to get off of here, so I hope you have a great day.

[arely staircase]

214. that was a moving story, thanks for sharing it

And I learned something. Redneck means a completely different thing in Appalachia than it does in the coastal south (Texas, Georgia and the states between the two.) In the former it is a class based put down and in the latter it is actually a boast. Southern culture is not monolithic.

And as far asAppalachian culture.goes I only know from the music, which I love.

Y'all have a good'n and say hello to ya momma and them, as my dad used to say.

[arely staircase]

216. one last thing

What you said about being a progressive in the south and having bigots for relatives, coworkers and neighbors. You got that right. My I had to get off Facebook very early this morning as it filled up with posts about going to chick-fil-a today to show solidarity. It wasn't a surprise in most cases but I was very dissapointed im some of them. What are you going to do? is right. I am teacher so I don't do politics on Facebook. I have to get a long with everyone. My one little act of rebellion was to change my profile pick to the Popeye's chicken logo. And I did comment to one friend that I love cfa's sandwiches but last time I was there I found a big hair in my.sandwich.

[antigone382]

240. I know a lot of people make the distinction between "white trash," etc., and "redneck," etc.

However, in my experience and in the experience of a lot of people I know, those terms are used interchangeably a lot of the time as well. And at the back of those usages is a sense of contempt for a certain "type" of person--I know because I have felt the same sort of disgust for the same people, and eventually was forced to acknowledge how wrong it was. Maybe everyone who uses the word redneck does not connect the word to its more classist uses in American history, but a lot of us who hear the word do make those connections; we can't help it.

I don't think that DUers intentionally look down on poor people, but I do see offensive caricatures of poor Southerners on here on a semi-regular basis; if you are from this region and if you are familiar with the social, economic, and ecological realities here, pictures of mullet-wearing, toothless people having shotgun weddings in front of their single-wides, references to Deliverance or "Deuling Banjos", and casually tossed around words like hillbilly and yes, redneck, are going to hit a nerve. Yet at this point in my experience on DU, such posts are generally allowed to stand, because the bigotry and classism implicit in them is not realized, or is not taken seriously.

Again, I don't think that's because DUers are classist or that they don't care--if I thought that was the case, I wouldn't waste my time. I just think that many are not aware of the implications that this particular form of classism has on real people's lives. That's why I took the opportunity presented by the OP--whatever its intentions--to bring my own experience and the few facts at my disposal to other DUers, so that maybe a few of them will think about it in a different way than they have before.

[antigone382]

191. Then don't reply to it. n/t

[ncgrits]

213. +1

[JI7]

158. redneck is not always a bad thing in itself, Bill Clinton calls himself a redneck

there were many "rednecks for Obama" signs in 2008.

the bad thing is that it is often used in a racist way when people call an ignorant white person a redneck as if redneck is someone who is ignorant.

[Systematic Chaos]

161. Redneck is a way of behaving and living. It is NOT a race or ethnicity.

Only you can know if you're truly a redneck. If you don't behave like a total ignorant fucking twit then there is no crime in simply being from the south.

My mother-in-law is in Pensacola, FL, and while I may not agree with her 100% on everything she's really a lovely person and despite her southern accent I'd NEVER call her a redneck.

On edit -- I just remembered, they use the term "redneck" in Australia as well, and in pretty much the exact same context.

Midnight Oil, a highly popular and long-running Australian band, released an album called Redneck Wonderland. Here's the cover.

[IMG][/IMG]

[antigone382]

166. But it IS classist, and here is the impact that such a stereotype has:

I live in one of the poorest counties in the South. Before someone saws on about how the immense suffering and lack of access to basic human necessities that these people suffer is all hunky-dory because they "vote against their own interests," know that they are traditionally and staunchly Democratic--so much so that Al Gore came here to thank these people for their support after the 2000 campaign. But we are adjacent to some wealthier areas, including an upper crust private university. I see people discriminated against EVERY DAY because they fit the "redneck" stereotype. I see lives thrown away EVERY DAY because of hopelessness and lack of opportunity, lives gobbled up first by poverty, then by drugs, and finally by police harassment and lifelong entrance into the criminal-justice-industrial-complex. Most of the young men I know here have received lifelong felonies, mostly for drug offenses; meaning the higher education that was already almost unobtainable is now totally out of reach for them; meaning that they will never again have the ability to influence the political process.

And all of this is enabled by the attitude these people face from a very young age; that their status as classless hillbillies makes their lives devoid of value. To outsiders they are dirty, inbred, toothless, illiterate hillbillies worthy only of scorn. You see it in letters to the editor written by the wealthy about how giving local people jobs is just "feeding the rats" (that's word for word), you see it in sideways glances and under-the-breath comments, and you see it in the way that police are far more likely to pull a car over if its appearance and that of its occupants signify that they are "hicks," how they are more likely to get the poor boys in trouble for a little pot than they are one of those young and promising college students.

I see the very real effects of prejudice against poor Southern people every single day, and it is not in any way, shape, or form constrained by political persuasion. If you want to pretend that perpetuating those stereotypes and the harm they do is OK because the people you are reducing to subhuman status *might* politically oppose you, then those are your priorities. But it reveals a pretty ignorant and counterproductive understanding of class issues in the United States, and it sure as anything does not help the progressive cause.

[ncgrits]

210. Thanks for sharing this, Antigone!

We should rail against bigotry of all kinds. I grew up with kids that many here might call hillbillies or rednecks--and some of them are the finest people I know. A few are out there fighting the good fight and it ain't easy! They are to be thanked and congratulated, not insulted.

When the anti-Southern or classist language starts up, it catches me off guard. It's disappointing.

End of sermon.

[hay rick]

195. Change your name to BlueRocco. Problem solved. nt

[ibegurpard]

218. are you?

[F. Kafka]

228. Forgive a silly question, but

why are you asking? Did somebody here call you a redneck? Because the question seems leading, designed to get someone to defend the use of the term. In other words, seems designed to enflame.

By the way, I'm from the Deep South. And I don't EVER think of Redneck as a synonym for poor...many rednecks are poor, but certainly not all, and absolutely not all poor are rednecks. Lots of Good Ole Boys have big new trucks and speedboats and so on. I think of Redneck almost purely as a political term, denoting a worldview of willful ignorance (social issues, manners, distrust of education, minorities, etc) and a pride in a kind of small-mindedness (hiding behind the Bible, or just behind good old Southern culture, to justify their small-mindedness) and not as classist.

I know the difference between rednecks and poor people. The latter evokes sympathy in me, and they're often meek, kindhearted people...kind of forced into a sad meekness by how low they are on the social ladder. I knew a lot of poor kids growing up, though we were middle class. But rednecks make a choice to put themselves out there in a certain way. It's a style of living, or dress, or whatever, that also has strong, strong ties to all that small-minded bullshit I mentioned a second ago. The same way that all of us tend to dress and behave and present ourselves in such a way as to reveal something about our attitudes and who we are.

In the town where I grew up--notoriously racist and closed-off, in the foothills of SC--there was one of two businesses in the state known as "The Redneck Shoppe." It was your official carrier of racist bumper stickers, God knows what else, and, oh yes, actual Klan gear. Actual robes. They were on display in the front window.

I would never think of a Southerner as a redneck automatically, since, you know, I am one. Nor would I ever think of a poor Southerner as a redneck automatically, because poor doesn't in any way equal redneck.

I do think of rednecks as rednecks, though. But I think of them as little as possible.

[alp227]

232. Because "redneck" doesn't have the same historical context as the N-word or other slurs.

Think about this. Have you ever seen the show Blue Collar TV? I watched it in '05 and '06 when the WB had that show. It had segments with Redneck in the title: You Might Be A Redneck If..., Redneck Dictionary, and viewer-submitted photos of "Redneck Yards".

Furthermore, country music stations don't bleep out redneck from songs, including "Redneck Woman" by Gretchen Wilson. In contrast, radio stations bleep out rappers' uses of "nigga" (a hip modern version of the dreaded ethnic slur re-appropriated by black rappers and entertainers).

Unfortunately, I as a big-city Left Coaster acknowledge that some in this country who are very unfamiliar with rural America enjoy tossing around "redneck" to describe pretty much anyone who lives in the heartland or has a southern accent. Even educated, cosmopolitan people who grew up in the southern states still have their accents. Take Mike Papantonio, the lawyer and Ring of Fire radio host. Or Dave "Mudcat" Saunders. Or James Carville.

[NashvilleLefty]

233. When rednecks have been

subjected to being slaves, and not even being considered as Human Beings for hundreds of years, THEN I might feel sorry for anyone called a "redneck".

BTW, I have been called a redneck. But to my knowledge, even as a redneck I was still considered to be a Human Being.

If I called you a monkey and said you didn't have the right to live, how would you feel about that?

[Go Vols]

238. Redneck gals going to the beach

[nadinbrzezinski]

239. You know the history of the term?

It's full of irony that's it become a slurr...it was a term of pride for union miners.

They don't teach that history anymore.