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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRE: Starbucks: I was a juror at a Trespassing Trial.
I was a juror for a trespassing trial. Heres what happened: Local known jerk was in a tavern, sitting at the bar, not ordering anything and watching pool game. No testimony of talking, yelling, fighting or any other un-social behavior. Owner doesnt like him. Called police and told them he was trespassing. Cops arrested him and threw him in jail. We went to the jurors room. I told everyone I wasnt going convict the guy no matter what. I said that if a business opens up, asking the public to come in and spend their time and money at their place, they had to accept everyone regardless of their reputation unless that person misbehaved or was notified with a posted sign they werent allowed and for what reason. (This was done at other local establishments, listing fighters, bad check writers etc.) As it turned out, everyone there agreed, even the one juror that seemed to know about prior problems the jerk had with local businesses etc. We returned to the court to deliver our not guilty verdict. The judge was somewhat visibly surprised and immediately called the DA and Attorneys to the bench. We were dismissed and that was that. Oh, and by the way, the Jerk was African American as was the one person who had knowledge of prior behavior. I mentioned to that juror that she needed to tell the courts officer that she had knowledge of the defendant and that she really shouldnt be talking about prior behavior to the jurors, but no body seemed much concerned about that.
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)malaise
(269,278 posts)Rec
mythology
(9,527 posts)perhaps you should make sure you aren't violating the oath you took as a juror to deliver a verdict based on the law, not your own personal feelings on what the law should be.
By totally disregarding the law and ruling in the exact opposite of what the law said you pretty much ignored the oath you took.
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)I didn't lecture anyone about their responsibility, I simply stated how I would vote and why. They could have voted opposite and caused the trial to be declared a mistrial. I think it would be hard to convict of trespassing without a posted limit, showing where the trespasser passes into an area prohibited. How is one to know if he is not a member of the special club that is allowed while others, seeming also to be members of the public, unknown to the owner, are not arrested? Is it possible that at one minute one is a welcome member of the public and the next, a trespasser without any change in behavior and without exhibiting any behavior different from the public members not charged with trespassing? Clearly its up to the jury to determine what this so called trespassing charge really is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification_in_the_United_States
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Jurors have the absolute right to invoke the totality of their being and not convict for any reason, including a belief that the charge is a miscarriage of justice despite being a violation of the letter of the law.
It's -why- we have a jury of peers system.
Google jury nullification.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I cant believe the extent to which Democrats are defending the indefensible.
We have so far to go in this country.
NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)Part of the reason for Jury trials is so that jurors can serve as another check on unjust laws. If a jury feels that a law is unjust, it can acquit anyone accused of it and effectively render it unenforceable.
kcr
(15,326 posts)The OP did exactly what they were supposed to for the reasons juries were set up in the first place.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,512 posts)The system is designed to oppress.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Had the owner asked them to leave and they'd refused? Or did the owner just immediately jump to calling the cops simply because the guy was sitting there without ordering?
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)Once again: No posting about having to buy anything, no testimony that he did anything anyone else was not doing. No posting that he wasn't allowed in the place because of previous issues.
Even places that post "no shirt, no shoes, no service" don't usually call cops unless there is some behavior that offends other customers or something
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)The owner is running a business not a social club surely? Those are seats that could be used by paying customers.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)You, yourself, said:
"I said that if a business opens up, asking the public to come in and spend their time and money at their place, they had to accept everyone regardless of their reputation unless that person misbehaved or was notified with a posted sign they werent allowed and for what reason."
You said the guy wasn't ordering anything, so obviously he wasn't spending his time and money in the business, like he was supposed to.
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)owner's permission. I think it was up to me to determine if he had permission to be on the property and I think if a business opens the doors to the public, then he has to take whatever comes in. I'm not defending miss behavior and there was none in this case. Many people go to taverns, pubs, coffee shops simply to go. If businesses don't want that, they have to initiate a cover charge or something.
kcr
(15,326 posts)They are clueless as usual. There's nothing wrong with the way you voted. It's the whole reason we have a jury system.
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)Is entering a property without permission.
You open your doors you are giving permission for people to enter.
Absent a "no loitering" or other signage indicating an expectation of a commercial transaction in exchange for entry I agree with you.
I enter businesses all the time and leave without buying anything.
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)Was just in looking around the local Lowe's...walked out with spending a cent....OMG!
bluecollar2
(3,622 posts)While you were there.
I'd bet the mortgage nobody would have said anything.
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)But I thought I heard sirens and I got the hell outta there! My two minutes were up! LOL!