Mentioning the unspeakable: suicide

[Eyeball_Kid]

Don't laugh. Don't cry. Don't dismiss.

Trumpy's been manic about his influence over the nation ever since he opened his campaign. We know it was for all the wrong reasons.

We know that Trumpy can best be described as narcissistic in a malignant sense. He's dangerous and self-righteous.

We can assume that Trumpy is evil, misdirected, mentally deficient, foaming-at-the-mouth mad, supremely vain, or anything else that makes sense. It doesn't matter. Trumpy ACTS as if he doesn't know the extent to which he's caused pain and suffering for those who were left in the wake of his dishonesty, deceit, and destruction. He acts as if he is so enraptured by his election win, he can't pay attention to anything else, including all of the damage he's done.

As the pressure mounts to hold Trumpy accountable for all of his crimes and misdeeds, he resists. He always resists. He knows the charges. He knows which are true. But he doesn't care because he truly believes he knows how to win against all odds. He can commit atrocities, and ruin the lives of countless victims, but he believes that the legacy of his life, that of an unrelenting winner against all legal limits, moral boundaries, and even common sense, is a glorious human triumph of exceptionalism over the mundane.

But the closer his perceived and real adversaries get to pulling away his cloak of exceptionalism and superiority, the less Trumpy will have to mentally and emotionally stay intact.

As a mental health worker for several decades, I once came upon an expert in what was then called "The Criminal Personality." In one of the lectures he gave, he commented on the likelihood of suicide by someone described as sociopathic. In essence, he spoke of the potential in sociopaths of having a "clear moment" in which the person has a truthful and impactful insight regarding all of the people who were hurt by the sociopath-- a moment when the defenses against responsibility and accountability temporarily disintegrate, leaving the person overwhelmed with guilt, sadness, and unworthiness. The tidal wave of emotions can be so devastating that the person may conclude that there is no positive aspect to living beyond any given moment, and decides that the only way to stop the pain (both in others and within) is to stop living.

I relate this comment made over thirty years ago to what I'm inferring is happening to Trumpy. He may very well be on the same path of eventually realizing the massive suffering he's caused not only the individual people in his life, but, as a political leader, also to the millions of people whom he's never seen or heard. And from there, it's quite possible that the overwhelming emotions, compounded by impending political, personal, and financial doom, may be what takes him over the edge.

I'm not interested in seeing him off himself, whether in or out of office. But I think that those around him ought to be thinking of this possibility. Trumpy is only human and will always react to situations in a human manner. No one in the media or in everyday conversation is accustomed to thinking about this possibility, but it may be time to do so. It may soon be time to put Trumpy on a suicide watch.

[elocs]

1. Bottom line: Trump loves himself too much to ever kill himself. n/t

[patricia92243]

9. Took the words out of my mouth.

[Eyeball_Kid]

15. We can think of history's megalomaniacs...

and trace the logic of their suicides.

Our favorite, Adolph.

Jim Jones...

Crime annals are filled with people who were over-the-top manics and who knew that they could no longer stay in control of their lives, so they ended it quickly.

But, yes, we don't know if any of them were overwhelmed by guilt/shame/worthlessness. Perhaps Trumpy wouldn't go through those feelings at all, but still might want to end it quickly, instead of feeling the pain of loss until he looses everything.

Another point worth mentioning: Trumpy knows he's going to be 72 this year. He knows that his life is finite. He hasn't much time left. Does he want to spend it in abject misery? Given his deep legal troubles, what are his alternatives?

[cbdo2007]

2. I don't think he thinks he can die

I think he's narcissistic enough to think he will live forever.

No, this is only going to end one of two ways....either he will get impeached and physically removed from office and hopefully put in prison...or he will run to Russia or somewhere and live out the rest of his days there still complaining about how mean everyone was to him and he was right and it was everyone else's fault and Hillary's emails.

[Rorey]

8. I don't think Russia would take him

He would no longer be useful to them.

[Eyeball_Kid]

16. That's a difficult call.

After all, the guy's got to be getting up every morning feeling tired. At 72 and getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night, not doing any exercise, and eating shit everyday, his human side is going to conclude unequivocally that he's older than dirt and he won't get any younger.

He could get impeached, but I'd guess that he'll die some time between eviction from the White House and getting criminally convicted after his removal. If that's the route, then what will kill him is the loss of materials and fame. He'll die before going to jail. But his kids will serve time. Jared's a no-brainer.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. Probably really believes his doctor who said he could possibly live

to be 200.

[TexasTowelie]

3. The fact that he continues to double-down on the massive suffering

does not allow me the thought that Trump would commit suicide. His warped view on life highlights inflicting pain and suffering.

[mercuryblues]

4. trump's version

is eating 1 big mac at a time. Along with fries, milkshake and a fish sandwich. Oddly enough, he prefers fast food because he is afraid of being poisoned.

[yonder]

5. Thanks for your objective post, seriously.

I don't want to see him off himself either, but I really, really want to see him spend the rest of his days in prison.

[Progressive2020]

6. Narcissist

Trump is a Narcissist with Sociopathic tendencies. Sociopaths do not feel guilt over the suffering of others. That is what makes them Sociopaths. Trump is not going to have an epiphany and suddenly feel guilt, sympathy, or repentance. He may be shocked at some point if he is ever punished or jailed for his crimes.

Sociopaths often have an overinflated view of their own cunning and ability to not be caught doing anything illegal or immoral. Sociopaths care only about themselves and use others for their own gratification and ego satisfaction. They do not tend to feel guilt or empathy for others. They sometimes fear being caught, but usually they have an over-inflated view of themselves and think they can not be touched.

Trumps realization may only occur when they slap cuffs on him and haul him off to jail. I think he has seen the writing on the wall with the FBI Raid on Cohen's Home and Office. I think that he is starting to realize that he may be caught and held accountable. When he was in that Military meeting yesterday and he started rambling about the Raid and calling it "a disgrace", I think I could see that he was rattled and had some fear that he might be caught.

So, no, guilt and suicide are not normal for someone who has sociopathic tendencies.

[Eyeball_Kid]

17. I really can't disagree with your logic in a general way.

What I was imagining was a possibility that's explained in better language here:

https://www.livescience.com/38421-psychopaths-feel-empathy-when-they-try.html

[Progressive2020]

19. Good Link

Real science. I scanned the article briefly but will read it more closely tomorrow as I am getting ready to shut down for the night. Thanks for the response.

[Kirk Lover]

7. He won't even resign let alone kill himself. He can't even fire somebody to their damn face...

He doesn't give a shit about suffering he's caused. He is concerned with one person and that's himself. I'll be generous and say he cares about a couple of family members too but that is it.

[smirkymonkey]

10. I don't believe he will ever have such a moment.

He adores himself too much to ever contemplate such a thing and he will never, ever give a thought to the people he has hurt and destroyed. I just don't believe he is really all that human. Although I would honestly like to see him do the right thing and remove himself from the face of the earth. He is a cancer on society and he will only get worse. One way or another, he has to go.

[Trust Buster]

11. Oh please, this creep is too cowardly.

[Demovictory9]

12. Trump is busy stuffing the courts with nuts. He wants his nuttiness to live on forever

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. Really? As several others have already said,

he's far too much of a narcissist to commit suicide.

[Eyeball_Kid]

20. What I find amazing is that...

we're having this conversation at all.

There is enough known about Trumpy, and enough not known, that it's conceivable that he's such an awful human being, with so much pain left in his wake, that he's taken himself to a place in his life in which 1., he's either going to keep on doing what he's doing until he's mentally/physically incapable of having power over people, at which time he'll pretend and go full fantasy; or 2., in a deeply futile moment, on the precipice of losing everything, including the loss of his daughter's company, he finds that the loss of his network of "human objects" equates with the loss of his own purpose for living. Perhaps the most sophomoric question available can then be asked: Is suicide the ultimate expression of narcissism?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. There's a lot I don't know about either suicide or narcissism,

but what I think I know about them leads me to believe there is no way he will commit suicide.

It seems to me that to do so involves a degree of grounding in reality that Trump does not have. Someone who commits suicide has come to the conclusion that life is no longer worth living. I cannot imagine Trump coming to that place.

When I think of the suicides I have known or learned about, I don't believe I have ever seen even a small degree of narcissism, let alone Trump's overwhelming commitment to that mind set.

Keep in mind that he hasn't a clue that others have suffered from his actions. To someone like him, no one else is quite real. They certainly don't have emotions, let alone an inner life that matters. I really doubt that losing his daughter's company is even on his radar.

I think a fundamental problem for those of us who are not narcissists, but who nevertheless understand that to all of us we are the central character and star in the the narrative of our life, that we can't begin to understand our own normal self-involvement as being fundamentally different from Trump's. For the rest of us, other people are still real. Even the ones we despise and dismiss as unworthy are still real people. And those who actually matter to us are more than real. They are like us. For Donald Trump they are not real. They are at best cardboard actors whose only mission is to support us.

Words fail me to describe the true extent of what a narcissist is. Even the most selfish of us are not like him.

And no, suicide is not an ultimate expression of narcissism. It is not in the vocabulary of a narcissist. Because the rest of us are not entirely real, there is no sense that committing suicide will change someone else, will make them feel sorry, or any of the other things that might come into play in a suicide. Although I suspect that for most suicides they are in some sort of anguish that seems best resolved by killing themselves. Trump would never experience that kind of anguish. And he's far too self involved to want to remove himself from the world.

So no, he won't be committing suicide.

[Submariner]

14. Choking on a KFC chicken bone is probably more probable so don't despair

[Eyeball_Kid]

21. With his temper explosions,

the odds for an aneurysm increase by the month.

[Awsi Dooger]

18. I'll dismiss it

Nothing has changed the past two days. That's easily the best way to look at it. Because far more likely than not, nothing will come of anything from the Cohen raid. Nothing that directly impacts Donald Trump.

I realize that sounds outrageous know, but only to the people who wrongly rely on daily details and frenzied overreaction to anything they apparently hold.

[Eyeball_Kid]

24. Reminds me of an old Frank Zappa song:

The Torture Never Stops