General Discussion
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(7,323 posts)Never!
OK, I'm editing this post.
My first reaction was that you were nominating her for candidacy in 2020. I could never support that.
I then realized 2019 means replacement. I could live with that, but I would still prefer another.
Youd rather keep Trump?
Cartoonist
(7,323 posts)See edited post.
Dustlawyer
(10,499 posts)We need someone without a really long career full of hard battles that collect political baggage. We have a lot of great potential candidates we should give the opportunity to that can appeal to a broader section of Americans.
I love Nancy and what she has done for this country, but she is not the best candidate we can field to take advantage of the blue wave that is coming.
We need a leader without experience? She's polarizing? Too much baggage?
Way to feed into right-wing narratives.
Dustlawyer
(10,499 posts)Nancy Pelosi would motivate a lot of despairing Republicans to get out and vote who would otherwise stay home licking their wounds. She would rally them which would hurt all of the down ballot Dems running.
WhiteTara
(29,730 posts)of power! They're too old, too young, they laugh too loud, they don't smile enough, they're too smart, they're too polarizing because they are women and they must quietly shuffle to the back of the room where they belong.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Then, maintain her leadership role.
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Our Revolutions track record is beyond dismall.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)But I dont know if she has the widespread appeal to win a national presidential election. It makes me wonder if wed be better off in the long run, letting Trump finish his term and then destroying him in 2020, which leads to a Democratic President from 2020-2028.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)So be careful what you wish for.
standingtall
(2,787 posts)Would be weak especially with a Democratic congress. I would prefer Pence be there instead of giving repukes an un-elected incumbent to run against in 2020.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,795 posts)Assuming that we are going to continue to have free & more-or-less fair elections, Republican calculus may end up that they cut their losses with Pence. Right now, they are working to see if they can hold serve or expand their lead in the Senate.
Today's news signals they are conceding that the House is likely lost. That means gridlock, impeachment hearings (even if there is no chance at conviction in the Senate), and continuance (or return) of Mueller as Special Prosecutor. That's not great optics. Pence likely sidesteps much of that scenario.
onenote
(42,821 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)onenote
(42,821 posts)In the real world that can't happen.
mcar
(42,439 posts)Pence resigns/gets indicted for his role in the corruption. Trump resigns as the hits keep coming.
Speaker Pelosi becomes president.
onenote
(42,821 posts)If that would result in Pelosi becoming President, it isn't going to happen.
mcar
(42,439 posts)onenote
(42,821 posts)Ryan is tucking his tail between his legs and scurrying away. This is a great start to the day. Let people have some fun.
onenote
(42,821 posts)But the proposition in the OP is not contingent on Ryan running or not. It's contingent on the Democrats capturing the House, which they can do with or without Ryan running.
brooklynite
(94,913 posts)There is no way you would get both Trump and Pence out at the same time.
yellowdogintexas
(22,288 posts)Disclaimer: DU is full of some very smart people, so correction of any errors in this post will not bother me. This is the way I remember the events, and I used this oversimplified but very straightforward explanation to back myself up. https://kids.laws.com/25th-amendment
( I never post anything involving actual facts without looking it up first. I'm well informed and pay attention to things but I am not THAT Smart! I just hate posting incorrect info, so I always Do My Homework)
In a Nutshell:
The 12th Amendment was passed to clarify that the POTUS and VPOTUS nominees would be from the same party and also clarify that VPOTUS was the 1st in line to succeed.
The 25th Amendment further clarified and changed the order of succession by adding the appointment of a new VPOTUS after a succession event. It also added the incompetence, inability to perform duties etc which originate in the Congress.
So now we can Time Warp to 1974
1. Agnew was forced to resign (and I am not sure I remember why specifically)
2. Nixon appointed Gerald R Ford (who was House Minority Leader at the time and someone to whom
no one would object) to replace Agnew.
3. This was approved by the Congress
4. Nixon resigned
5. Ford became President
6. Ford then nominated Nelson Rockefeller to be Vice President (again, someone no one would find
objectionable on either side of the aisle.)
7. This was approved by the Congress
8. The US had a President and Vice President who were not chosen in a national election, but in
keeping with the 12th Amendment, both POTUS and VPOTUS were from the same party.
9. On the other hand, Gerald Ford had been re elected to the House for many years and would have
been Speaker of the House if the Republicans had the majority. This is an improvement over running
down the Cabinet appointees as the Constitution originally stood.
10. If #45 is impeached, resigns, goes to jail or whatever and Pence succeeds him, then Pence will be
able to appoint a new VPOTUS who must be approved by the Congress. The odds of this being the
current House Minority Leader are pretty much negative!
11. If they get rid of Pence first, then #45 gets to appoint a new VPOTUS, who could be EddieMunster,
Turtle, Newt, Faintin' Couch, even Rafael Cruz. Or Mittens, for all that. There is certainly no lack
of potential appointees, none of whom come even close to being as respectable and acceptable as
Gerry Ford
12. Then, if Trump goes down, we are back to 1974 again and an unelected POTUS is appointing an
unelected VPOTUS, with virtually no chance of the opposition party obtaining either office.
13. Ultimately, this much instability should result in a power switch in Congress in November, followed
by the WH and more of Congress in 2020.
14. Should Pence succeed to the WH, I agree he will be crippled and unable to accomplish anything should the run up to resignation/impeachment/whatever causes him to succeed. If the Congress we elect this year changes majority he can be further impeded. I am far less scared of Pence than I was a
year ago.
15. Question: can the nation survive another nine months until the next Congress is sworn in? With
Democratic majorities in place, confirmation of any potential VPOTUS could be stalled until
someone at least somewhat reasonable was nominated.
After JFK's death, LBJ succeeded as president and the nation had no VPOTUS. This was when the Constitution was amended in 1964 to allow a VPOTUS to be installed via nomination and approval to ensure there would always be a president in waiting in that spot. I think the fact that LBJ was known to have some heavy duty health issues may have played into this. He could have easily had a massive heart attack which would have made Dean Rusk, who never ran for elected office, President. My reading of these rules make me believe that barring the simultaneous deaths of POTUS and VPOTUS, the automatic succession of the Speaker of the House could not happen.
Regarding Article 4, where POTUS is removed from office due to inability to perform duties, etc. interestingly does not include the current situation in which it was obvious #45 was in fact already in this category before elected. SO according to the article I just read, #45 did not become incapacitated after election - in other words, normal then not. Assuming that is correct, it would seem we ought to just drop that hot potato and focus on electing a strong Democratic majority to keep this crazy man in check or Pence should that happen. I did not know this, and it would seem I'm not alone!
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)2/3 of the Senate could not agree on the weather.
yellowdogintexas
(22,288 posts)POTUS can rebutt then the instigators have 4 days to respond. Then they vote and I think it is the entire Congress.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Given the self-serving appearances of her installing herself as president, she will choose not to impeach.
Actually, given ANY circumstances, I doubt she will impeach. It will always be "off the table."
onenote
(42,821 posts)Among the several reasons this is a pipe dream.
bearsfootball516
(6,377 posts)Winning House speaker and then immediately trying to impeach Trump and Pence would give the appearance of a massive power-grab on her part and wouldnt go over well with the public.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Rhetorically speaking, what's up with that?
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,795 posts)The Republicans impeached Clinton over Monicagate knowing they had no shot at removal. If the Democratic party wins the majority in the House, I'd count on that.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)The Republicans don't suffer when there is an appearance of conflict of interest. That only seems to affect Democrats.
They impeached Clinton on the very last day of his office, yes? No removal required.
During the recent interview between Colbert and Jimmy Carter, the ex-pres expressed the opinion that impeachment would further damage the office of the presidency, beyond the damage caused by already caused by Trump. Carter thinks that removal by election in 2020 is the best way.
My own opinion -- I don't agree with Carter -- I'd love to see Pelosi fight here, but it ain't gonna happen.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,795 posts)I don't make that assumption. If we are swept in, as some currently predict, I think there will be a desire to install younger, fresher leadership.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I doubt that it will happen, either.
Pelosi seriously talked about retiring in 2006. Still hasn't happened.
mcar
(42,439 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)I have my issues with her but for the most part, she's done a fairly good job. and if she's the next in line to be President because of the orange asshole and oedipus complex get the heave-ho, I'm okay with that.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,226 posts)Hopefully we'll get Trump kicked out, but most Republicans will hold the line at Pence if there's nothing more damning than he was squirrely about Mike Flynn's activity.
There will be no two-fer.
sunonmars
(8,656 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)elocs
(22,633 posts)I am reminded of Fitzmas and all of the gloating and predicting how Bush and Cheney were going to be frog-marched to The Hague.
The good thing about predicting that both Trump and Pence will be gone by February 2019 is that nobody will remember by then that the prediction was wrong.
Initech
(100,129 posts)But you know what? I say let's keep him there - as toxic and vile as he is, him being in office has been the best thing for us! Just look at all the local elections we've won- we're winning in districts that we haven't won in decades in some very deep red areas. And we wouldn't have won Alabama if it weren't for Trump campaigning for Roy Moore.
An impeachment trial would be an absolute shit show, but like any network, it can't be done without a solid infrastructure. But we need that infrastructure. I say we keep doing what we are doing and winning elections at the state and local levels. That is how you drain the swamp.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)Jimmy Carter said impeaching Trump would further damage the office of the presidency.
I'd love to see Trump in a humiliated impeachment, but I don't see it happening.
In a long, drawn-out trial, the RWNJs will ample opportunity to riot. It could be a kind of Civil War.
As you point out, the presence of Trump has been helping to win the local elections.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)Spanky gone, Pence gone, only Madame Speaker left standing..
President Pelosi.. nice ring. That'll do till 2020.
Response to NightWatcher (Original post)
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