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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:29 PM Jul 2012

Romney Says He’s Been Audited (updated 3x)

Last edited Mon Jul 30, 2012, 08:13 PM - Edit history (2)

Romney Says He’s Been Audited

Mitt Romney said that he had been audited more than once in his interview with ABC’s David Muir. In response to a question about his tax rate, Romney casually mentioned the audits.

From ABC’s transcript:

Muir: Was there ever any year when you paid lower than 13.9%?

Romney: I haven’t calculated that. I’m happy to go back and look but my view is I’ve paid all the taxes required by law. From time to time I’ve been audited as happens I think to other citizens as well and the accounting firm which prepares (my) taxes has done a very thorough and complete job pay(ing) taxes as legally due. I don’t pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don’t think I’d be qualified to become president. I’d think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires.

It’s not uncommon for wealthy individuals to be audited, but the comment is unlikely to allay people’s desire to see more of Romney’s tax returns.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/romney-says-hes-been-audited

Audited by whom? Does "audited* = no immoral or potentially illegal findings? I mean, if you were hiding money from the IRS, and the audit occurred before any amnesty, what does that have to do with anything?

Mitt, since you're a pathological liar, release your returns. After all, you've been "audited" so there is nothing to hide, right?

Updated to add:

Romney: I've paid 'very substantial' taxes every year ... 'so far as I can recall'

by Jed Lewison

Mitt Romney's tax returns are still following him around the globe, but this time, instead of a question about whether he'll release more returns, ABC's David Muir asked Romney a question about what might or not be in those secret tax returns. Specifically, Muir asked Romney whether he's ever paid a lower effective tax rate than 13.9 percent he paid on his 2010 returns. Romney's answer:

I haven't calculated that. I'm happy to go back and look but my view is I've paid all the taxes required by law.

Of course, Mitt will never "go back and look" because if he did that, he'd have an even tougher time justifying his tax return secrecy. And when Muir asked the natural follow-up—"you said you would go back and look, would you look for us?"—Romney backed down.

I haven't looked at the tax rate paid year by year. I know that I pay a very substantial amount of taxes and every year since the beginning of my career so far as I can recall.

So, not only did he drop the "happy to look" bluff, he added "so far as I can recall" into the mix—and that's a phrase no politician who is being accused of hiding something should ever use. But even if Romney's recollection is accurate, it's worth noting that by his definition, 13.9 percent is "a very substantial amount of taxes."

That's absurd on it's face, but it's doubly absurd in light of another argument Romney made to Muir. "Frankly, if I had paid more than are legally due, I don't think I'd be qualified to become president," he said. "I'd think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires."

In one sense, Romney is right. As long as you're not using Swiss bank accounts and Bermuda shell corporations to shelter income and dodge taxes, nobody should pay more than they are legally required. But Romney is refusing to reveal the information which would show whether or not he exploited the law and took advantage of gray areas.

And all of this would be different if Romney were to say that while he pays 13.9 percent, he recognizes that his tax rate is much lower than other people's tax rates—and that it's not fair for someone of his wealth to pay less than somebody making 1 percent or even 5 percent as much as he does every year. But Romney isn't saying that. He's not just saying that he's paid what he has legally owed, he's described what he's legally owed as "a very substantial" tax burden. Sorry, Mitt: 13.9 percent isn't substantial. Not even close.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/30/1114973/-Romney-I-ve-paid-very-substantial-taxes-every-year-so-far-as-I-can-recall

Anyone believe Mitt hasn't seen his tax returns recently and has no idea what's in them?

Update 2:

*** Romney admits he’s been audited by the IRS: Romney made some other -- call it accidental -- news yesterday in his interview with ABC. He mentioned he had been audited by the IRS. In response to question about his tax returns, the GOP candidate said, “[M]y view is I’ve paid all the taxes required by law. From time to time I’ve been audited, as happens I think to other citizens as well… I don’t pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don’t think I’d be qualified to become president.” The Romney campaign will not say what year he was audited -- only that he was found to be in compliance and that the audit took place more than 10 years ago. But while being audited isn’t that odd, it only adds to the narrative that his tax returns are so unique that it invites an audit.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/30/13032341-first-thoughts-recapping-romneys-israel-stop

So being audited "from time to time" becomes audited once "more than 10 years ago"?

Oops!

Courtesy DUer aint_no_life_nowhere:

...Romney's campaign has said he's never been audited. "I pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more," Romney said during a January primary debate. ...

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/07/should-mitt-romney-be-audited

Again, oops!

Update 3:

Romney Keeps ABC Waiting For Promised Tax Information

Benjy Sarlin

Despite telling ABC News over the weekend he’d be “happy” to hand over more information on his past tax returns, Mitt Romney has yet to follow up on their request.

<...>

But ABC says Romney officials have not gotten back to them on whether Romney ever paid a lower tax rate than 13.9% despite their repeated queries. Instead, they received a rehash of Romney’s already disclosed taxes and charitable donations from 2010, suggesting that Romney may have overpromised in his interview what his campaign was willing to reveal.

<...>

The Obama campaign accused Romney of “breaking his promise” by not disclosing more details about his tax rate.

“It’s not surprising that Mitt Romney - the most secretive nominee in recent history - is once again siding against transparency and breaking his promise to ‘go back and look’ at additional tax returns to see if he ever paid less than his 2010 rate of 13.9%,” Obama campaign spokeswoman Lis Smith said in a statement. “His refusal to do so raises serious questions about just how much he has paid in taxes and whether he has resorted to tax loopholes and dodges to avoid paying his fair share. He can put these questions to rest by following decades of precedent by releasing additional years worth of returns and providing the full account of the income tax rates he paid, as he promised he would just days ago.”

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/romney-keeps-abc-waiting-for-promised-tax-information.php









40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Romney Says He’s Been Audited (updated 3x) (Original Post) ProSense Jul 2012 OP
I see eleven suspicious years on that chart that need auditing. onehandle Jul 2012 #1
That's like saying, "I was arrested....." cbdo2007 Jul 2012 #2
I don't think you normally put your Swiss Bank Account on your tax forms.....so I doubt an audit cbdo2007 Jul 2012 #3
Exactly. And my guess is everything he has done has been legal - TBF Jul 2012 #4
I misread your headline. Thought it said, "Rmoney says he's being audited". NT Trillo Jul 2012 #5
I did too at first SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #8
This article in Mother Jones cited his campaign saying he's never been audited aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2012 #6
Interesting, nice find! SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #7
Wow! That ProSense Jul 2012 #10
I wish I could find an actual quote from the campaign aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2012 #12
someone should gently nudge him SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #14
Wait for it. Wait for it. Wait for it. "I'm not a crook." HopeHoops Jul 2012 #9
Nixon is his Mentor SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #11
there is a difference between legal and smelly dembotoz Jul 2012 #13
To hell with all that moral and ethics crap, "If it's legal, it's legal" Brother Buzz Jul 2012 #19
No one else pointed out this line?: louis-t Jul 2012 #15
Here SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #18
Maybe he was audited by scientologists. rocktivity Jul 2012 #16
Romney 'says'.. ananda Jul 2012 #17
This guy is sounding more and more like Nixon every day NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #20
Such a fucking lie: "I haven't calculated that." berni_mccoy Jul 2012 #21
Another day, another Romney lie... sa2968 Jul 2012 #22
He also says he's released all the financial information that's legally required starroute Jul 2012 #23
"I’ve paid all the taxes required by law". jb5150 Jul 2012 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #25
If he believes that paying no more than legally required qualifies him to be Pres., then spooky3 Jul 2012 #26
it's a bizarre statement. anyone who says "here's an extra $100 to pay down the national debt" unblock Jul 2012 #31
and what were the results of said audits, mr romney? spanone Jul 2012 #27
"I’ve paid all the taxes required by law" Politicalboi Jul 2012 #28
he released years of taxes to the mclame campaign, they're ready for public release. unblock Jul 2012 #30
i read his statement as admitting that the audit resulting in back taxes and penalties unblock Jul 2012 #29
Yep - another tool of uber wealth Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #33
And he should be believed? Why? Skidmore Jul 2012 #32
And coward! n/t ProSense Jul 2012 #35
OK Mittwit treestar Jul 2012 #34
Ahhhh. The sweet smell of TOAST!! madinmaryland Jul 2012 #36
Romney: ProSense Jul 2012 #40
I just can't wait for the debates. Motown_Johnny Jul 2012 #37
"the most secretive nominee in recent history" aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2012 #38
Is it only me or does anyone think team Obama might have Astazia Jul 2012 #39

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
1. I see eleven suspicious years on that chart that need auditing.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:37 PM
Jul 2012

And a red checkmark smells too. Make it twelve.

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
2. That's like saying, "I was arrested....."
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:38 PM
Jul 2012

but not saying why he was arrested or the outcome of the court case, etc.

I'm not equating being arrested with being audited because I know they audit plenty of people who did nothing wrong....my point is that you don't know the outcome just by saying, "I was audited" that doesn't tell us anything. What did they FIND if anything?!?!

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
3. I don't think you normally put your Swiss Bank Account on your tax forms.....so I doubt an audit
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:39 PM
Jul 2012

would catch them. Nice try though!

TBF

(32,116 posts)
4. Exactly. And my guess is everything he has done has been legal -
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:41 PM
Jul 2012

there are tons of loopholes that good tax attorneys will find/exploit. I'd like to know his total income. I'll bet that's what he doesn't really want to release.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
6. This article in Mother Jones cited his campaign saying he's never been audited
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:55 PM
Jul 2012

Apparently, that was the official campaign position in January. Now, lo and behold the Etch A Sketch Ouija Board says he's been audited more than once.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/07/should-mitt-romney-be-audited

"...Romney's campaign has said he's never been audited. "I pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more," Romney said during a January primary debate. ..."

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
12. I wish I could find an actual quote from the campaign
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 01:09 PM
Jul 2012

Hopefully, David Corn from Mother Jones will comment on the inconsistency. Such blatant lying should provide all the more justification to see all his tax returns.

louis-t

(23,309 posts)
15. No one else pointed out this line?:
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 01:27 PM
Jul 2012

"Frankly, if I had paid more than are legally due, I don't think I'd be qualified to become president," he said. "I'd think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires."

WTF?

 

berni_mccoy

(23,018 posts)
21. Such a fucking lie: "I haven't calculated that."
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:05 PM
Jul 2012

Every tax software out there (and there is no doubt software was used to determine his taxes) produces a calculation called the Effective Tax Rate. That is what the software is optimizing the return for.

Most tax software applications print this out with the summary page of the return and it can be easily determined from the summary page of a completed return. If Romney signed his own return, then he knows exactly what his ETR is.

By saying *he didn't calculate that*, he means the software did it. HE KNOWS what it is, but he's playing a word game here.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
23. He also says he's released all the financial information that's legally required
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:39 PM
Jul 2012

And that he regards making public even one year of tax returns as going above and beyond the federal disclosure requirements.

That's what really grinds me -- not that he applies this letter-of-the-law standard to his taxes, but that he applies it to his relationship with the American public. That is something completely unbecoming any would-be president.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/07/most-important-parts-romneys-five-friday-night-interviews/54586/

He will release no more than two years of tax returns, he told CNN. "The law requires us to put out a full financial disclosure and that I've done... And that's what we're going to put out. People always want to get more and we're putting out what is required plus more that is not required. And those are the two years that people are going to have and that's all that's necessary for people to understand something about my finances."

jb5150

(1,183 posts)
24. "I’ve paid all the taxes required by law".
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:49 PM
Jul 2012

Translation; "I take advantage of all the tax loopholes created by my rich friends".

Response to ProSense (Original post)

spooky3

(34,510 posts)
26. If he believes that paying no more than legally required qualifies him to be Pres., then
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:32 PM
Jul 2012

should be HAPPY to provide the tax returns to everyone, to show how smart he has been to avoid over-paying.

Until that inconsistency is resolved, I don't buy it.

unblock

(52,431 posts)
31. it's a bizarre statement. anyone who says "here's an extra $100 to pay down the national debt"
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:45 PM
Jul 2012

is disqualified, in rmoney's mind, from being president?

for being insufficiently greedy, i guess?

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
28. "I’ve paid all the taxes required by law"
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:38 PM
Jul 2012

Which means he knows what he paid. Otherwise he couldn't say that. He needs to audited.

unblock

(52,431 posts)
30. he released years of taxes to the mclame campaign, they're ready for public release.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:42 PM
Jul 2012

there's no excuse not to release them other than that they clearly prefer the negative press for nondisclosure to the negative press resulting from disclosing whatever is in there.

unblock

(52,431 posts)
29. i read his statement as admitting that the audit resulting in back taxes and penalties
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:40 PM
Jul 2012

"the accounting firm which prepares (my) taxes has done a very thorough and complete job pay(ing) taxes as legally due"


first, if the audit was 100% clean, he would have jumped at the opportunity to say the audit found my taxes were 100% squeaky clean in full compliance with the law.

second, mentioning the accounting firm is a way to shift blame. anything that was done improperly was *their* fault, not mine, or at least not *entirely* my fault. this is a natural subconscious trick, especially for a narcissist like rmoney.

third, he doesn't say WHEN his accounting firm did a complete job paying taxes due. in fact the wording rather implies that he diligently paid whatever back taxes and penalties were found to be due by the audit.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
33. Yep - another tool of uber wealth
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 03:55 PM
Jul 2012

Not being responsible for your own convoluted tax returns. Its "someone elses" fault and no question, audit protection/liability is built into the fees he pays them to pump out all 500 pages every year.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
34. OK Mittwit
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:07 PM
Jul 2012

If you are not qualified to be President if you overpaid your taxes, then let's see the returns. Maybe we will find you overpaid.

 

Motown_Johnny

(22,308 posts)
37. I just can't wait for the debates.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 08:39 PM
Jul 2012

This guy panics in a friendly environment. He just might self destruct in front of the entire nation.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
38. "the most secretive nominee in recent history"
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:20 PM
Jul 2012

His campaign is more top secret and clamped down than Area 51. I think I'll start calling it "Area 52", since Mitt is also the most bizarre, alien-like creature to ever run for office..

Astazia

(262 posts)
39. Is it only me or does anyone think team Obama might have
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:46 PM
Jul 2012

paperwork or proof showing what everyone thinks is or isn't in Mitten & Ann's tax returns? Weaving a tale for speculation on all fronts & breaking it out in say....September? Seems the seeds have been planted in the drought plagued swing states & once the dog days of summer are over...who knows if all the chatter might be a precursor to the truth coming out before the debates? I would love to see something like being outed as Mr. 1% wipe the smirk off his mug.

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