1/20/2009, the DJIA closed @ 7949. As of a minute ago, it was 13094

[OmahaBlueDog]

It seems like the stock market thinks we've done something right in the past four years.

[Scuba]

1. But, but, but the Repukes assured me Obama was anti-business.

[Fumesucker]

2. Odd how the real world economy most of us live in hasn't done nearly as well..

[scheming daemons]

3. 28 straight months of positive job growth.... longer stretch than ever under Bush

Job growth under Bush averaged +20,000.


Over the past 28 months, job growth under Obama has averages nearly +150,000.



If you can't see the difference in this country from when Bush left office to now, you're willfully blind.


Is it as good as it can be? No. Mostly because of GOP obstructionism. But it is far better than it was.

[Fumesucker]

8. If I recall your posts correctly you're doing pretty well financially..

It's easy to be all sunny and optimistic when things are going well for you.

Not everyone is as fortunate as yourself, thanks to the fucked up economy for the last ten plus years I've basically lost everything I ever really gave a damn about and I'm not talking about physical possessions at all.

Have a little empathy for those who aren't doing as well as yourself, your posts depress me more than practically anything else I read because you're so relentless about minimizing any problems people might be having in order to make Obama look as good as possible.

[OmahaBlueDog]

10. I'm not certain to whom you are responding, but I'll reply.

It's been a shitty 10 years in a lot of respects. It's been a particularly shitty 6 years.

The tech bubble burst
9-11
The war in Afghanistan
The war in Iraq
The outsourcing of major US economic segments to India and China
The housing bubble burst, and the ensuing depression/recession (depending on who you ask)

Even President Obama readily admits we have a long way to go. Nationally, though, we are making gradual progress. However, it is a slow, uneven process. Are there things I wish the President could do over? Yes. Would Joh McCain and 4 years of Bush policies been any better? No. Had we not spent the stimulus money, in all likelihood, deflation would have set in. That would have been swell for the 1%ers with cash, who could have consolidated their hold on America at deep discounts. It would have sucked for every morgtage holder and debt holder in the US.

[99Forever]

20. I'll second that.

The economy isn't so rosy for about 30, 40, or 50 million of us that are living on the edge of despair. But as long as the 1%ers and their bootlicking sycophants are raking in record profits, fuck the little guy. I'm doing FAR worse than I was when Obama took office, with no relief in sight in time to salvage what it took my entire lifetime to build. Hey, but the fucking Dow Jones is rewarding the assholes who crashed my world, so I should just STFU and quit complaining.

[OmahaBlueDog]

9. Start with this - On July 14, 2008 George W. Bush was President

The price of gas was, on average, $4.11 for a gallon of regular

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2008/07/gas-prices-1.html


The DOW was at 11496 (I don't have a link, but you can look it up on Yahoo! Finance or any other finance site.)


At 8/4/2008, the Dow closes at a peak, of sorts -- closing at 11734. A steady downward march ensues. The march starts to double time the week of 9/29, as the Dow sheds nearly 2000 points in a week.

The Bush-Paulson team was leading the economy alright -- leading it straight off a cliff.

It is certainly true, as Republicans are quick to point out, that the average price of gas on 1/19/2009 was indeed $1.85 a gallon

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/01/gas-prices-2.html

... but they need to tell the rest of the story -- the economy that George W. Bush and Hank Paulson left to Barack Obama and Timothy Geithner was a wreck that was gloriously aflame. From the market's peak of 14198 during the week of 10/1/07 to the day of Barack Obama's inauguration, the Dow lost about 44% of its value. Gas wasn't low because Bush was some petroleum genius with a forward thinking energy policy; gas was low because the economy had come to a literal standstill -- with driving and truck movement falling dramatically with the collapse of the consumer economy.

[MadHound]

4. The connection between the Dow and the real economy is tenuous at best,

Always has been.

While the down is going up, our GDP is going down, and jobs remain stagnant at best.

[cbdo2007]

5. Many of us watching the market and commenting on other message boards agree...

that the market is well above where it should be compared to the rest of the economy by at least a few thousand points. I'm guessing the market makers are actually pumping it up in hopes President Obama will be reelected and that it'll remain on a growth spurt for the next couple of years before it corrects. We'll see I guess. At least it's making me a good amount of $$ in the mean time.

[dmallind]

41. Our GDP is certainly not decreasing. nt

[freshwest]

6. The pugs screamed it would be down to 3,000 because of Obama. They crowed about it before then.

It was considered for a long time their measurement of success from Reagan onward. Now suddenly it no longer commands any news coverage and excitement. Confronted with this former measure of a successful presidency, they go silent.

I guess it is because there's a Black Man in the White House. You would think people would feel liberated that anyone can do the job, but nooo... Sad.

[nanabugg]

7. Almost doubled.....nt

[doc03]

11. The Dow actually hit its low on March 9, 2009

it closed at 6547.05 so at 13094 it has actually doubled since the bottom of the Bush crash. True the job situation is still
bad but people with investments have done quite well. I lost my job permanently on April 17, 2009 and took my retirement on May 1st 2010. Since April 17, 2009 my IRA has more than doubled in value.

[badtoworse]

12. Unless you had the stones to buy in at that level...

...what difference does it make? I doubt that many on this board. I think it's more likely that many took a huge hit on their 401k's and only now are they getting back to where they were in the 2007 - 2008 timeframe.

[OmahaBlueDog]

13. The point is that the markets have trended upward during President Obama's tenure

The DJIA kinda went the other way under Bush.

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. It went up about 35% during his reign before it crashed. Another instance of the meaninglessness

of the DJIA for anybody not in the top 10%.

But why not point to it, the republicans do.

[girl gone mad]

24. So we cheer bubbles and fraud now?

I guess it's the New Democratic party. Greed is good, corporate profits uber alles, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[OmahaBlueDog]

30. I posted it mostly as a response to GOP claims about the price of a gallon of gas that I see all the

I'm not cheering corporate profits at the expense of high unemployment

..and I regret my initial, intemperate remark.

[Egalitarian Thug]

14. Listing all the ways the DJIA is meaningless would be TLTR. But it is something that we can

point to and get people to nod their heads, so why not.

[spanone]

16. it's not meaningless if you have your IRA in the market, which many people do.

and those people have recovered well.

[Egalitarian Thug]

19. Like I said, getting people to nod their heads. That's politics. n/t

[spanone]

26. repeating yourself. now that's profound.

[Egalitarian Thug]

33. Many do. Many more do not, and even more had them and had to cash out all or part of it

at the worst possible time in order to survive. So just think about the millions of people that were victimized by Wall Street, lost their home and their job, paid the taxes and draconian penalties to access what little was left of their own money. It's basic math.

The fact is that the majority of people that have really made gains from this "market recovery" were those that were never really harmed by the looting and collapse in the first place. The upper middle class has recouped some, perhaps most of their losses. The middle middles class won't break even without enough gains to offset the taxes and penalties they lost in the collapse, the lower middles class was pushed down toward/into poverty and have lost everything.

And the rich are making more than ever before in the history of mankind.

These reasons and many more (we don't like too many words) are why I stated that this figure is more political theater than a significant indication of economic health.

[OmahaBlueDog]

23. Is it any more meaningless than pointing to the price of a gallon of regular gas?

..because Republicans do that every chance they get. Oh, we have so much oil under the ground, but those Dems won't let us drill.. y'know the day George W. Bush left office, gas was $1.85 a gallon. Never mind the fact that 7 months earlier, the same gallon of gas was over $4 a gallon.

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. Exactly, these facts are political theater. I don't know why they work so well, but they do. n/t

[cbdo2007]

18. I was telling people here to buy in like crazy....and was practically excommunicated because of it.

That's the great thing about the stock market.

It

always

comes

back!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

34. And

It

always

goes

down,

too.

And what's the rule about timing the market? So how are you going to time your retirement?

[cbdo2007]

36. If it does down that's even better, you get the same stocks you were already buying on sale.

It'll come back after a few years. Don't ask me, go look at the DJIA historical return yourself and search the google for dollar cost averaging.

[Egalitarian Thug]

38. You missed the point and didn't even think about, let alone answer, the question. n/t

[cbdo2007]

39. I did answer it - dollar cost averaging.

There is no "market timing" involved.

[Egalitarian Thug]

40. No, you didn't. Like every sales weasel in the world, you always say that now is the time to buy.

Market is down? Time to buy! Market is high? Buy now while it's going up! Global economy collapsed? Buy now, the governments will have to bail them out! Just like the republicans that are making hay out of the price of gas when the President took office, just ignore the reasons behind it.

What do you think happens when you have to retire and the market collapses during that time? You're 61. 5 years old and the $600,000 you had on paper drops 60% while you can't yet get to it without paying taxes and the punishing penalties imposed to keep you in the game.

Or say you're lucky enough to retire while the market is up, do you think that the market will stay up for 15, 20, 30 years? Of course not. Can you keep paying your bills when your income drops by half?

Putting your future entirely in the hands of known thieves running a crooked game is not a sound retirement plan. Of course neither is it smart to believe that it is a good idea for 40% of the economy to be in the business of making money by moving money, but that hasn't dawned on quite enough people yet.

But hey, no worries. I'm sure that you are much smarter than those millions of losers for whom you have such disdain that you don't care if they live or die, 'cause it isn't going to effect a smart guy like you.

[cbdo2007]

44. do you have a better plan for retirement???

Because the system I mentioned is what 99.9% of the country depends on either through their Pension, their 401K, or the government.

Unless you're one of those ultra-smart people who doesn't understand where government money comes from but I can't help you with that any more than I can help you understand dollar cost averaging.

[Egalitarian Thug]

45. It's what 98% of the people that have any retirement plan are depending on, that's a far cry from

99.9% of the country. And even at that, it will not be there for a significant % of them when they need it.

Are there better plans? How many would you like?

[cbdo2007]

46. Just give me one that doesn't include stock market leverage....that should be sufficient.

[spanone]

15. and business hates Obama....?????

[Johonny]

35. It's amazing how the market talking heads keep pushing that point

I keep getting told the markets are afraid of Obama and Romney will make the market explode in value because he gets wall street unlike Obama. Yet the market continues to do well, particularly if you dollar cost average into it. It's almost like the talking heads are idiot short term thinkers that sell economic information to be consumed on that day only by day traders that care nothing about actual economics and are waiting to be told new "analysis" for tomorrow that is the exact opposite of what they heard today. Once can only imagine how much better things would have been had we not imploded the Pelosi House in 2010

[Evasporque]

21. I notice the calls going out for people to invest in stocks now....

The paper had an article...Bonds are not the only thing to invest in....

so now that the numbers are up the wealthy are looking for another round of "profiting by taking" your retirement dollars...once the capitalization goes up and people shift monies from stable asset funds to stocks...they will crash the market again...and force a massive sell off and they will sit back and scoop up all the money.

[dmallind]

42. What stops you from doing that if you can predict it?

Sure you won't make the same amount as the wealthy, but you can make exactly the same percentage.

[cbrer]

22. Despite GOP obstruction

Although in all fairness, a high DJIA may mean that stockholders are happy, but some value there was gained by outsourcing jobs, cutting payroll and/or benefits, or scaling back production.

Unemployment drops, housing sales, and local tax base improvement will mean more to the middle class.

[OmahaBlueDog]

27. Unemployment dropping is always the best outcome

Lower unemployment = higher wages and more consumer spending.

Housing sales will be a tougher, longer term issue. There will be a glut of pre-owned single family homes for about the next 15 years as the boomers age into apartments, independent living, assisted living, and other retirement housing. I see a remodeling/reno boom -- but I don't see new development booming nationally anytime soon.

While conservatives are fixated on the budget deficit, I'd like to see more focus by both parties on the balance of trade deficit.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. DOOOOMED! WUR DOOMED! IT'S GOING DOWN TO 200!! DOOOOMED!

Man, I remember some time around March of 2009 saying "I think this might be a good time to buy".

You would not BELIEVE the shit-flinging "you must be an idiot!" temper tantrums THAT statement caused.

[dmallind]

43. Oh yes I would

I BEGGED the Kunstlerite proudly certain Dow 4000 predictors to sell me futures at 1.5 times that level for any date they wanted. Not a single taker. I even offered to pay escrow fees for both parties so no welshing would be possible. Not a single taker still.

I did buy on my own of course, but my limited funds at the time kept the raw gains to a moderate level, although the percentages were great. Just sold GE at a nigh 40% gain (plus the dividends at a 5%+ clip) and T at 35% plus 6%+ dividends. All when people told me I was an idiot for using anything but a mattress. Since I have a bit more cash now I'm dabbling in some shorter term trading picking up shares in profitable companies that fall dramatically on "bad" earnings reports and then jump right back up once the overreaction becomes obvious. TOT, PG, etc. I'm making about 2-3% a month even with a market that is not undervalued overall by any means IMO. And since I'm actually selling the positions these are real gains not paper losses like anybody who didn't panic and sell more than they absolutely had to in 2008-9 saw.

[Politicalboi]

29. See, Bush's policies

Worked.

[Arkana]

32. The Dow isn't the greatest indicator of how the economy's doing.

All it means is that stocks are trading well.

[B Calm]

37. My investments always do better with a DEMOCRATIC

PRESIDENT!!!